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Wait, are there people surprised that the Garleans are still, on average, mistrustful of outsiders? We are just at the very beginning of working to undo generations of Propaganda painting Garleans as Superior Above All, everyone else is Savages that just want to kill and spread chaos and take their stuff, if not just inherently, then as revenge for the Garleans' attempts to conquer the rest of the world. Yeah, okay, we saved the world, and did end up genuinely helping a few people, but for the most part, Garleans are still a very stubborn, proud, patriotic people that still have a lot of work to do to undo all that propaganda and brainwashing. A Garlean might trust us because of how we helped them during the Final Days. Garleans as a whole are still very much distrustful of any outsiders. A superiority complex that large and deep-seated xenophobia that severe doesn't go away quickly, no matter how large-scale the heroics we just pulled.
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May 25, 2023 02:04
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Honestly it probably helped a ton that Garlemald did bear witness to some Final Days madness and also had a small voidsent invasion after we'd already dealt with the tower. If they didn't have some first hand experience with the broader problems we're facing I could see them being even more staunchly against letting people access the tower, as other folks have suggested. It's also interesting that there's the somewhat isolated leadership in Senatus versus the folks we'd already helped in Tertium. It seemed like not only were they disinclined to help due to the whole being Garlemald thing, but they also seemed to lack some awareness of their own plight, like they weren't fully aware of the rampant warmachina in their own city. bobtheconqueror fucked around with this message at 02:29 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 02:25
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BlazetheInferno posted:Wait, are there people surprised that the Garleans are still, on average, mistrustful of outsiders? In all honesty, I think it's less that people here don't get that, and more that some people don't care and just assume we can and should go 'gently caress you, I'm the hero' despite it. Basically, people who think Zero was right in that situation, while ignoring that Zero is literally not emotionally mature enough to understand the problems in front of her.
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May 25, 2023 03:03
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They do an ok side step by taking the decision out of your hands, I think. Vttra is definitely more diplomatic than the WoL is liable to be, and I can appreciate his insistence on doing things that way from his position as a political leader for like a millenium. He's spent centuries cultivating a society based on mutual respect among peers, and I suspect the only reason he didn't come up with the trade deal idea without inspiration was that he's desperate to find his sister as quickly as possible.
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May 25, 2023 03:17
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Radz-at-Han is also in the unique position of being the one city state that had trade with the Garleans and wasn’t invaded by them prior to the fall. Presumably this is because Emet had secret Ascian knowledge that a dragon was in charge or something, but it nevertheless means that Vrtra is like, the only world leader who can come at this from a truly neutral position.
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May 25, 2023 03:41
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I like that after P9N, Athena is like "Look okay, I know this looks bad, but I assure you, I am doing this entirely for the bit"
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May 25, 2023 03:43
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Waffleman_ posted:I like that after P9N, Athena is like "Look okay, I know this looks bad, but I assure you, I am doing this entirely for the bit" Yeah, the level of "if you'd just hear me out you'd agree with me!" followed by genocidal megalomania is really funny.
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May 25, 2023 04:14
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Cleretic posted:In all honesty, I think it's less that people here don't get that, and more that some people don't care and just assume we can and should go 'gently caress you, I'm the hero' despite it. I don't think that the idea of the Garleans being mistrustful is bad so much as it feels a bit heavy handed in execution. The part where they wouldn't let the Contingent clear out the rogue warmachina, which were attacking everyone, not just outsiders, is a good example. The idea that we could just go to Garlemald and just switch the tower back on without anyone objecting was obviously ludicrous, but the idea that the Garleans would be okay living in a ruin full of killbots is a bit silly on its own.
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May 25, 2023 04:15
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so, i know giving one of the mysterious envelopes to krile basically sinks this idea before it goes anywhere, but my theory (wish) is absolutely that the next expansion is the obligatory tournament arc
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May 25, 2023 04:21
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sweet geek swag posted:I don't think that the idea of the Garleans being mistrustful is bad so much as it feels a bit heavy handed in execution. The part where they wouldn't let the Contingent clear out the rogue warmachina, which were attacking everyone, not just outsiders, is a good example. The idea that we could just go to Garlemald and just switch the tower back on without anyone objecting was obviously ludicrous, but the idea that the Garleans would be okay living in a ruin full of killbots is a bit silly on its own. It honestly probably would have landed a little bit better if the delegate in question hadn't gone full stupid with "I refuse to believe our killbots are attacking anything they see" just so that he could be forced to confront the evidence of his wrongness in under sixty seconds.
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May 25, 2023 04:39
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hexwren posted:so, i know giving one of the mysterious envelopes to krile basically sinks this idea before it goes anywhere, but my theory (wish) is absolutely that the next expansion is the obligatory tournament arc
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May 25, 2023 05:08
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hexwren posted:so, i know giving one of the mysterious envelopes to krile basically sinks this idea before it goes anywhere, but my theory (wish) is absolutely that the next expansion is the obligatory tournament arc Krile is coming to Smash
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May 25, 2023 05:13
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I agree that it was a little too brisk, could've been done better, but honestly I didn't really need them to spend a whole lot of time on "Yes, Garlemald is still hosed up in many ways, and will be for a generation at least" at this point. The problem is so far outside what the WoL can do to help that the cliffsnotes version will do, and we can get on with it. If you don't get what they're going for in Garlemald by now you're probably an OF lost cause and never will.
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May 25, 2023 05:14
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Rand Brittain posted:It honestly probably would have landed a little bit better if the delegate in question hadn't gone full stupid with "I refuse to believe our killbots are attacking anything they see" just so that he could be forced to confront the evidence of his wrongness in under sixty seconds. Back in the days of glory of Garlemald, everyone just loved the warmachina wandering about! Every street had its own local warmachina! Kids love them!
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May 25, 2023 05:21
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OhFunny posted:Didn't say that to me, because I already took care of it. I, too, was interested in beelining the final tier of Lahabrea's Extremely Messy Divorce. bobtheconqueror posted:Yeah, the level of "if you'd just hear me out you'd agree with me!" followed by genocidal megalomania is really funny. Yeah, that whole bit can basically be summed up with the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0 Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 05:29 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 05:26
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Three things after doing the Raids: 1. So that was the real Elidibus regaining some of his memories towards the end rather than the Eric and Laha memory clones, right? So if you die on any reflection of the Source you get dumped into the same Aetherial Sea? 2. Glad to finally get an answer on what the Heart of Sabik is, but how old is Ultima if auracite was getting made even back in the time of the Ancients? And the fact that the spell ultima seems to clearly be coming from a memory of Ultima or wherever it is from is... concerning, as is the fact that Claudien now wants to throw his life into studying the drat thing 3. Lahabrea really is a massive dick. MechaX fucked around with this message at 05:41 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 05:38
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MechaX posted:So if you die on any reflection of the Source you get dumped into the same Aetherial Sea? It's mentioned that Athena somehow drew his soul to the Source for her shenanigans. I believe it's supposed to be the real Elidibus, though, particularly since he does talk about sending us back in time to Elpis. MechaX posted:Lahabrea really is a massive dick. Look, sometimes you just have to immolate your co-worker to earn her respect.
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May 25, 2023 05:42
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GloomMouse posted:I agree that it was a little too brisk, could've been done better, but honestly I didn't really need them to spend a whole lot of time on "Yes, Garlemald is still hosed up in many ways, and will be for a generation at least" at this point. The problem is so far outside what the WoL can do to help that the cliffsnotes version will do, and we can get on with it. If you don't get what they're going for in Garlemald by now you're probably an OF lost cause and never will. Actually, the OF (at least in the lore subforum) had the overall response to the Garlemald was either a brief 'that's cool, I get it' or just not even mentioning it at all, both of those groups being in favor of talking about Golbez and Pandaemonium instead. One brought up that it's pretty poo poo that they still keep off-screening the Trapper's Den people and instead putting spotlight on the ex-Imperial leadership, and yeah, I can get behind that complaint.
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May 25, 2023 05:49
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Trapper's Den folks seem like they're doing the thing we want the other Garleans to do, reject the Garlemald that was and move forward, so they weren't the right cast for this issue imo. Definitely hope we see them instead when we next need Garlean know-how or magic oil or whatever.
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May 25, 2023 05:58
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Trapper's Den are also largely expatriates and don't have the direct benefit of the other Garlean communities of large offscreen habitable sections - it's literally just a hole in the wall and maybe also housing on the oil rigs. So it's harder to picture them meaningfully being a Garlean faction.
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May 25, 2023 06:07
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hexwren posted:so, i know giving one of the mysterious envelopes to krile basically sinks this idea before it goes anywhere, but my theory (wish) is absolutely that the next expansion is the obligatory tournament arc think it'd be really funny if whoever's reaching out to the scions traps them in some wicked snafu and the only ones that don't get caught are you and krile (and graha I guess) and that's your starting party for 7.0
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May 25, 2023 06:07
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I just want to know what happened to Varis' Red and Blue Power Ranger ladies. I don't think Gaius and Estinien killed them, right? For that matter, what happened to Yuyuhase and Laurentius?
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May 25, 2023 06:20
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I just want to know what happened to Varis' Red and Blue Power Ranger ladies. I don't think Gaius and Estinien killed them, right? They're the final boss of Ghimlyt Dark. Considering they don't pop up after that, I think its safe to assume we killed them.
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May 25, 2023 06:22
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I just want to know what happened to Varis' Red and Blue Power Ranger ladies. I don't think Gaius and Estinien killed them, right? Yuyuhase and Laurentius are either executed on your order or taken to be trialed by the Resistance (and then probably executed). I'm pretty sure the Power Ranger Ladies show up in the cutscene where Varis dies and then disappear afterwards.
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May 25, 2023 06:25
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Vitamean posted:think it'd be really funny if whoever's reaching out to the scions traps them in some wicked snafu and the only ones that don't get caught are you and krile (and graha I guess) and that's your starting party for 7.0 WoL, Krile, Zero, and Erenville
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May 25, 2023 06:26
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Lord_Magmar posted:I'm pretty sure the Power Ranger Ladies show up in the cutscene where Varis dies and then disappear afterwards. Yeah, I think they get chumped but not really in a way that suggests they would've died. They could turn up if the writers were so inclined, but I don't really know what they'd add.
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May 25, 2023 06:33
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1stGear posted:They're the final boss of Ghimlyt Dark. Considering they don't pop up after that, I think its safe to assume we killed them. I thought we never killed people, we were just really good at making them stay down
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May 25, 2023 06:33
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1stGear posted:They're the final boss of Ghimlyt Dark. Considering they don't pop up after that, I think its safe to assume we killed them. estinien fights them off during the solo instance in... 5.1? gaius jumps in to knock them out and I don't think they're seen after that.
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May 25, 2023 06:33
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The WoL can fire rubber orbital dragon lasers to knock people out if they want
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May 25, 2023 06:38
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Zeruel posted:I thought we never killed people, we were just really good at making them stay down This is canon Vitamean posted:estinien fights them off during the solo instance in... 5.1? gaius jumps in to knock them out and I don't think they're seen after that. Ah, my mistake then.
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May 25, 2023 06:38
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"We don't want any trouble, WoL. The Empire is dead, but we still have each other. Now we do our best as <profession> in <location>" There you go, writers. Now let us hang out with the Power Ranger ladies
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May 25, 2023 06:58
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Zeruel posted:I thought we never killed people, we were just really good at making them stay down We try very hard not to kill people, especially as time goes on, but we canonically killed (or caused the death of) a shitload of people particularly in ARR before we started reaching the sort of strength that makes it easy to not kill people via sheer combat skill/power.
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May 25, 2023 07:19
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Lord_Magmar posted:We try very hard not to kill people, especially as time goes on, but we canonically killed (or caused the death of) a shitload of people particularly in ARR before we started reaching the sort of strength that makes it easy to not kill people via sheer combat skill/power. This. At the beginning, when we're just a rookie adventurer with a rusty sword to our name, we almost certainly were killing more enemies than not - largely due to necessity or because we're dealing with bandits while acting at the request of local law enforcement who would've been all "The penalty for banditry is death anyways." But as we get stronger and become Eorzea's Champion, we're in a much better position to not kill people. Rand Brittain posted:It honestly probably would have landed a little bit better if the delegate in question hadn't gone full stupid with "I refuse to believe our killbots are attacking anything they see" just so that he could be forced to confront the evidence of his wrongness in under sixty seconds. I think they were just trying to speedrun the trope of "Old rich guys who don't want to admit that poo poo has changed after the apocalypse."
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May 25, 2023 07:40
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Naming my WoL Kiryu Kazuma so that it's canon that they've never killed anyone in their life. Ever.
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May 25, 2023 07:41
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the rogue warmachina thing makes enough sense imo. it's both an obviously irrational choice (no one wants to live surrounded by killbots) but also a clear non-starter politically and strategically (i think from a garlean perspective "we need to decommission your machina" sounds too much like "you need to unilaterally disarm"). the guard's reaction is so over the top precisely because he knows he's taking an irrational, indefensible position, and also that his superiors would have his head for anything less. plus it's a fun little nod to the nonsense that is mmo-land, where people's homes have to stay active warzones because this is a leveling area, by god
Valentin fucked around with this message at 08:03 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 08:00
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Something I will say about Senatus: I thought it was neat that not only is the furniture nicer than Tertium, but the actual station was nicer. It makes two levels of storytelling sense: 1. It's a station closer to the inner city, so it actually makes sense that it's less broadly utilitarian and has some ornate elements; public arts projects, yo. 2. It shows that these guys somehow managed to have the luxury of choice in post-apocalyptic shelters. EDIT: Valentin posted:the rogue warmachina thing makes enough sense imo. it's both an obviously irrational choice (no one wants to live surrounded by killbots) but also a clear non-starter politically and strategically (i think from a garlean perspective "we need to decommission your machina" sounds too much like "you need to unilaterally disarm"). the guard's reaction is so over the top precisely because he knows he's taking an irrational, indefensible position, and also that his superiors would have his head for anything less. plus it's a fun little nod to the nonsense that is mmo-land, where people's homes have to stay active warzones because this is a leveling area, by god Yeah, it definitely struck me as just another element of the Garlean leaderships' adherence to national pride over reasonable logic. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 08:11 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 08:04
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hopeandjoy posted:Radz-at-Han is also in the unique position of being the one city state that had trade with the Garleans and wasn’t invaded by them prior to the fall. AFAIK, Radz was able to maintain neutrality not just because it was a trade partner with Garlemald, but because its relatively central location meant that it could be a trade nexus for illicit Eorzean/Garlean trade operations that were profitable enough to give Garlemald incentive to maintain it as a free port. Even with Vrtra, it seems likely that the Empire could have conquered it if they'd wanted to, but having it as an Imperial province would be less valuable than having it as a neutral trade nexus.
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May 25, 2023 08:47
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sweet geek swag posted:I don't think that the idea of the Garleans being mistrustful is bad so much as it feels a bit heavy handed in execution. The part where they wouldn't let the Contingent clear out the rogue warmachina, which were attacking everyone, not just outsiders, is a good example. The idea that we could just go to Garlemald and just switch the tower back on without anyone objecting was obviously ludicrous, but the idea that the Garleans would be okay living in a ruin full of killbots is a bit silly on its own. my issue wasn't that their mistrust is unreasonable, more that their insistence on their sovereignty and rights as a nation is ridiculous. like bro sovereignty over what? a bunch of ruins? we can just leave if you want, i'm sure you guys will make a great go of it. it would be like karl donitz talking about how important it is that the allies respect prussian traditions. gently caress off! also having been reading a lot of local development news lately it was extremely funny that we had to do a pointless community input session to ask permission to literally save the world. thank god they don't have environmental impact statements in eorzea or we'd all be loving dead
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May 25, 2023 08:47
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Badger of Basra posted:my issue wasn't that their mistrust is unreasonable, more that their insistence on their sovereignty and rights as a nation is ridiculous. like bro sovereignty over what? a bunch of ruins? Well there's a giant aetheric laser/teleporter, seems like that has some value. But the point is that the Garleans don't have a whole lot going for them and they're a feared what little they have left is going to be taken from them. Fear is often irrational and it seems like a pretty normal kneejerk reaction, not even getting into the generations of propaganda. The fear is just dressed up in diplo speak
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May 25, 2023 08:54
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Cleretic posted:Yeah, I think they get chumped but not really in a way that suggests they would've died. Sounds like perfect bosses to bring back in Exploratory Zone Series 3: Hey, Remember Those Auracite Weapons? I recently caught up with Bozja and I'm interested to see if they pick up that dangling plot hook next expansion.
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