|
Alaois posted:idk about his marvel stuff but liefeld was absolutely infamous for his books never ever meeting deadline and coming out months late at image Apparently that was a theme at Image and ended up with them taking so long to actually capitalise on the trends they created that by the time the comics actually came out everyone had moved on.
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 08:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 23:43 |
|
|
Much like Frank Miller copied Lone Wolf And Cub for his style, Liefeld imitated Appleseed. Big guns, bigger boys, skinny women, EXTREME outfits with pouches, goggles and other kibble, mercenaries and cyborg poo poo, dynamic posing, lots of speed lines. The problem is that he didn't imitate it terribly well. He is not Masamune Shirow and he was still too young at the time to have the experience and polish to pull it off. Then he just didn't bother to get better and original once he got launched to the top. Not to mention that he also just straight up traced everyone else's work as well. There's a pretty good collage of his tracing out there, I couldn't find it. EDIT: It should be noted that covers were a huge part of the early 90s comic book boom, so artists that could make eye-catching covers were a big deal. Liefeld's art sucks in retrospect, but his style was novel at the time and caught readers' attention at the stores. Same with Jim Lee et al, though they were more competent. Suleman has a new favorite as of 08:32 on May 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 08:26
|
|
|
Mr Interweb posted:anyone here watch the walking dead? i was checking out the wiki page for The Walking Dead and found out that the ratings have absolutely cratered in recent years. what happened? pretty crazy seeing these numbers considering the show was an absolute juggernaut 
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 08:50
|
|
|
is...is that from TWD?
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 09:28
|
|
|
Mr Interweb posted:is...is that from TWD? They’re the latest bad guys. At this point in the series zombies are an occasional annoyance
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 09:41
|
|
|
I should also note that even though I rag on Rob Liefeld all the time he wasn't even the worst artist working at Marvel or DC during that period, there was a LOT of lovely art getting churned out back then. I read through a bunch of those old Marvel 2099 comics yesterday and the art in some of them was just garbage. Liefeld could at least block out a page so that everything was (mostly) legible and you could follow the story fairly easily
Snowglobe of Doom has a new favorite as of 09:50 on May 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 09:46
|
|
|
No discussion about bad comic artists should go without mentioning Greg Land, who traces loving everything. Not that tracing is in itself necessarily a bad thing, but he does it constantly, poorly, and on more than a few occasions the source material was obviously porn.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 10:08
|
|
|
By far my least favorite part of any zombie story is if it gets into "maybe humans are the real enemy" crap and TWD seems to be the absolute nadir of that
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 10:11
|
|
Pigbuster posted:By far my least favorite part of any zombie story is if it gets into "maybe humans are the real enemy" crap and TWD seems to be the absolute nadir of that I mean, the name of the strip itself is a reference to the concept, not to mention the influence of Romero's Dawn of the Dead on the whole zombie genre. The problem with TWD is that A) it's mostly the same story cycle over and over, like it's DBZ or something and B) a TON of its screentime is " 2 talking heads in a room and they have nothing to say".
|
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 11:16
|
|
|
Pigbuster posted:By far my least favorite part of any zombie story is if it gets into "maybe humans are the real enemy" crap and TWD seems to be the absolute nadir of that Both comic and the show have the main character literally yell "WE are The Walking Dead!" at one point for the three people who haven't gotten it by then so yeah, it is the nadir. AceOfFlames has a new favorite as of 11:50 on May 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 11:46
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:DC did it across most of their major books-- we had Superman dying and the 4 replacements, Hal Jordan killing all the Green Lanterns and Kyle Rayner coming on, and Wally West more formally taking over for Barry and establishing himself. This was also when Aquaman lost a hand and they really tried to make him Conan of the Seas. I don't recall what happened to Wonder Woman at the time. Is it wrong that I think the Knightfall comics probably aged the best out of the 90's comics, probably because Azrael started out trying to follow Batman's code but kept slipping more and more into his old ways and ended up a mentally broken mess by the end, rather than immediately jumping into "The new Batman is XTREME and Hardcore!". Some of the new villains in it were solidly "We stole Liefeld's designs", but the two cowboy bank robbers fit solidly into the Batman rogues gallery. And hey, it gave us Bane, so it has that at least.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 12:06
|
|
|
Mr Interweb posted:anyone here watch the walking dead? i was checking out the wiki page for The Walking Dead and found out that the ratings have absolutely cratered in recent years. what happened? pretty crazy seeing these numbers considering the show was an absolute juggernaut The ratings drop coincides with them brutally killing a fan favorite character, after which I think people realized the show had nothing interesting left to offer.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 14:36
|
|
|
Perestroika posted:No discussion about bad comic artists should go without mentioning Greg Land, who traces loving everything. Not that tracing is in itself necessarily a bad thing, but he does it constantly, poorly, and on more than a few occasions the source material was obviously porn. Someone asked Joe Quesada about it when was EIC at Marvel and he just shrugged and said 'It's just a tempest in the internet teapot.'
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 14:58
|
|
|
Cat Hassler posted:They’re the latest bad guys. At this point in the series zombies are an occasional annoyance The zombies have always been a plot device just to keep the cast moving so that they could rinse and repeat the formula or "Wander around -> Find a place that looks defensible and livable -> Oh no, other people hosed us somehow and the new base is compromised - Back to wandering" Granted, I haven't watched the show in years, and I know at some point they actually do get a civilization going again, but without the threat of the zombies it's just a bad drama.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 15:30
|
|
|
Z Nation was so much better than Walking Dead.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 16:51
|
|
|
Schubalts posted:Z Nation was so much better than Walking Dead. I still randomly think about the biggest wheel of cheese in the world going on its own little quest, and wonder how it's doing now.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 17:01
|
|
|
Henchman of Santa posted:The ratings drop coincides with them brutally killing a fan favorite character, after which I think people realized the show had nothing interesting left to offer. That scene revitalized my interest for a little while. I didn't want to see him go, but I appreciated they were willing to do something so brutal. The problem is that that character's death kind of meant nothing. The season that follows is almost identical to the one before it; same bad guy, same problems, and it eventually gets resolved in an incredibly lackluster way. Also I think it is around that point that one realizes that there is no planning in this show. There's no goal, or overarching plot. Just wandering around. Which isn't something I'm against; perhaps the entire show is about how we're the walking dead and we just have to keep shuffling along, place to place, never resting. But you never really feel that that's what's being articulated. I mean, you hear it, because they make a point to let you know, huh huh, we're the walking dead, but it doesn't really show it. The Whisperers were at least interesting, largely because Samantha Morton is so good, but even when that gets resolved it just feels like it doesn't really get resolved. Some of the characters are just too comic-book like. I really liked how many of the characters were over-the-top; they still seemed contained in the universe. But then you have like the annoying goggles-pixie, the fuckin tiger, a community made up of, I guess, community theatre nerds who stay in character, and also that priest is loving annoying from his first episode to his last and I was never ever ever sure what to make of him. Is he a priest who has lost his faith? Is he an evil priest? Is he a coward? Is he a hero? Can he be redeemed? Is redemption in the form of violence or mercy? It all fuckin just changes depending on the season. When I think back on it, I don't think that brutal murder of a fan favorite was what caused the show to collapse, but it was probably when it jumped the shark. Fear the Walking Dead has a really good third season. And Colman Domingo's character is really great. But that show loses its footing really early on. Every season after the third one seems to be just random nonsense. It's like they just reach into a bag and are like, Okay in this season THIS character becomes a bad guy, and THESE characters become good guys. The season after has a bunch more switcheroos and there never seems to be any consequences for the characters who, seemingly for no fuckin reason decide that the following season they're just going to be a warlord or something. credburn has a new favorite as of 17:33 on May 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 17:29
|
|
|
A story about civilization emerging from a zombie scenario would be interesting, like the point at which you go from looting the the burned-out hardware store to starting up the hammer factory again, or cleaning all the cars off the freeway. I don’t know the right format for that story, though.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 17:57
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:A story about civilization emerging from a zombie scenario would be interesting, like the point at which you go from looting the the burned-out hardware store to starting up the hammer factory again, or cleaning all the cars off the freeway. I don’t know the right format for that story, though. The Last of Us is like 60% of the way there.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 18:13
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:A story about civilization emerging from a zombie scenario would be interesting, like the point at which you go from looting the the burned-out hardware store to starting up the hammer factory again, or cleaning all the cars off the freeway. I don’t know the right format for that story, though. There's an amazing, and extremely BBC Three, show called In The Flesh that is kind of this. There's been a "small" zombie-outbreak - everybody who died in 2006 comes back as your typical zombie, but it's not contagious. The outbreak's been contained and with medication the Partially Deceased are able to regain their intelligence and memories and attempt to re-integrate into society. There are support groups and everything. The premise is utterly absurd, but it's played completely seriously. It's set in some remote northern town that got largely left to fend to itself during the Uprising, and it's kind of a an analogy to the Miners Strikes or the Troubles, on top of all the stuff about grief and guilt that you'd expect from the premise. It owns so much.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 18:19
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:A story about civilization emerging from a zombie scenario would be interesting, like the point at which you go from looting the the burned-out hardware store to starting up the hammer factory again, or cleaning all the cars off the freeway. I don’t know the right format for that story, though. This is a lot of World War Z (the novel).
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 18:24
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:A story about civilization emerging from a zombie scenario would be interesting, like the point at which you go from looting the the burned-out hardware store to starting up the hammer factory again, or cleaning all the cars off the freeway. I don’t know the right format for that story, though. The later arcs of the comic (and I guess the show, I stopped watching early on) do lean into that but of course inevitably turn into fighting the latest bad guy. In this case, an entire community patrolled by those stormtrooper looking dudes from the photo and run by pre-apocalypse politicians who are determined to hold on to capitalism and their power at all costs despite it not making a terrible amount of sense (the most nonsensical thing about them being that they assign people into classes and jobs merely based on what they did before the apocalypse. So Michonne, the uber badass gets to be a lawyer simply because she used to be one.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 18:32
|
|
|
I AM GRANDO posted:A story about civilization emerging from a zombie scenario would be interesting, like the point at which you go from looting the the burned-out hardware store to starting up the hammer factory again, or cleaning all the cars off the freeway. I don’t know the right format for that story, though. It's not zombies, but Station Eleven is about the very start of this process, after 99% of humanity is wiped out in a couple of weeks by a superflu It's brilliant and beautiful and not enough people have seen it.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 19:03
|
|
|
It's one thing I appreciate about The Last Of Us: Yeah, it's got its fair share of people being extremely lovely to one another, but it does also show that here and there people manage to get by just fine, even thrive.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 19:12
|
|
|
Perestroika posted:It's one thing I appreciate about The Last Of Us: Yeah, it's got its fair share of people being extremely lovely to one another, but it does also show that here and there people manage to get by just fine, even thrive. Yeah it even introduced a successful commune whose dark secret is...that they are very protective of the commune (I haven't played TLOU2 so maybe that changes).
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 19:41
|
|
|
The Fallout series is about rebuilding, but hits the other problem that once you're deep into rebuilding you aren't still in the same genre. Huzzah, we have successfully rebuilt to roughly 20th-century America, now to have a post-apocalyptic entry in our post-apocalyptic series we either need to go to the wild frontier, across the country, or back in time.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 19:44
|
|
|
Barry Foster posted:It's not zombies, but Station Eleven is about the very start of this process, after 99% of humanity is wiped out in a couple of weeks by a superflu Also not zombies, and it's anime so there's a lot of ridiculous powercreep to the concept, but, Dr. Stone perhaps.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 21:57
|
|
|
the final issue of The Walking Dead, which was a surprise final issue because more fake issues of the comic had been solicited past it and it's issue 193 which is a random number to end on, was a sudden 20 year timeskip to Carl as an adult who gets taken to court for killing one of Herschel's (Glenn and Maggie's son) zombies that he keeps in a carnival sideshow because society has been completely rebuilt at this point and zombies are just kept around for entertainment and the entire issue is just a courtroom drama. Michonne is the judge.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 22:03
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:This is a lot of World War Z (the novel). Speaking of things not aging well, didn't WWZ have a merd that became a sword master and a blind monk/samurai as completely unironic characters
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 22:11
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:Speaking of things not aging well, didn't WWZ have a merd that became a sword master and a blind monk/samurai as completely unironic characters 
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2023 22:46
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 00:36
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:Speaking of things not aging well, didn't WWZ have a merd that became a sword master and a blind monk/samurai as completely unironic characters
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 01:41
|
|
|
Henchman of Santa posted:Yeah it even introduced a successful commune whose dark secret is...that they are very protective of the commune (I haven't played TLOU2 so maybe that changes). The worst thing in that commune is there’s a mean homophobic man. Other than that it functions fine
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 01:45
|
|
|
Randalor posted:Is it wrong that I think the Knightfall comics probably aged the best out of the 90's comics, probably because Azrael started out trying to follow Batman's code but kept slipping more and more into his old ways and ended up a mentally broken mess by the end, rather than immediately jumping into "The new Batman is XTREME and Hardcore!". Some of the new villains in it were solidly "We stole Liefeld's designs", but the two cowboy bank robbers fit solidly into the Batman rogues gallery. 90s batman comics suck because somehow KGBeast was still around and people thought you should take that seriously.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 02:16
|
|
|
World War Z is evenly split between epic tactical zombie poo poo and a slurry of insane stories that twitter would mock about for about 24 hours
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 03:08
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:That book was cited as hopelessly out of date and lame on-sight. I hate the salty, sour grapes way Gen Z phrases it but it was instantly recognized as the Nepo Baby droppings it was, with defenders going more "it's not worth being venomous about" rather than "it's legitimately good enough that the world would be poorer without it." I heard this term on Comedy Bang Bang and assumed it was referring to some character. What's a Nepo Baby? I fuckin loved World War Z when it came out. I was obsessed with zombie poo poo in the years leading up to it, and World War Z kind of came at the very moment that zombies became a pop culture explosion. Looking back, it is what it is, which is about exactly what you might expect it to be, but I will say that for a book that was loosely spun off Max Brooks' previous derpy book, a survival guide about the zombie apocalypse, it was written reasonably well. Far better than most other zombie material that was out at the time and certainly better than the deluge of saturated zombie poo poo that came later. One thing I really liked about the book was that it came after things like 28 Days Later and the Dawn of the Dead remake, and I was not really a fan of the "fast zombies" thing. World War Z leaned heavily into the slow, moaning, traditional shambling zombie, which made the movie even dumber for adopting the exact opposite kind of zombie, but whatever.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 03:13
|
|
|
credburn posted:I heard this term on Comedy Bang Bang and assumed it was referring to some character. What's a Nepo Baby? quote:I fuckin loved World War Z when it came out. I was obsessed with zombie poo poo in the years leading up to it, and World War Z kind of came at the very moment that zombies became a pop culture explosion. Looking back, it is what it is, which is about exactly what you might expect it to be, but I will say that for a book that was loosely spun off Max Brooks' previous derpy book, a survival guide about the zombie apocalypse, it was written reasonably well. Far better than most other zombie material that was out at the time and certainly better than the deluge of saturated zombie poo poo that came later.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 03:16
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Oh you think I'm that kind-of dumb. Idk man google it. I don't know what you mean  mind the walrus posted:Lmao I hear this marketing horseshit every few years. There's about 10 different zombie properties which were when they became a "pop culture explosion." It reads like you're trying to sell something, and I have no idea why or to who, but it's like... dude c'mon. I still don't know what you mean I just really liked the book when it came out e: I said it came out around the pop culture explosion, not that it caused it
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 03:30
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Oh you think I'm that kind-of dumb. Idk man google it. ???? are you okay man
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 03:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 23:43 |
|
|
A nepo baby is just a nepotism case, like everyone in hollywood.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2023 03:35
|
|