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I think I reached a decision. I have an interview on 5/24. Regardless of how that turns out, I plan to put in my two weeks notice that Friday and make June 9th my last day. This is looking to be yet another week where the owner's spent a bunch of money on themselves and I will likely have to hold my paycheck for 3 or so days. Something might change, but I can't keep having this financial uncertainty. If I am going to worry about my finances, I'll at least do so without being breated, stressed out, or ouright insulted. And one of the partners today, the only responsible one, is discussing that he may sue the other brothers because he's owed 1.3 million that he put in to keep the company running while they over spent. Honestly, I can't blame him. I even told him that he needs to get a note from them with a clear repayment schedule. The guy has put in 300k+ over the last year to keep it going. His younger brother took 400k for himself last year above his salary. Right now, his two brothers have taken almost 70k more than him in salary and he's been putting money in to keep the lights on. This is too much.
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May 11, 2023 20:13
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Covok posted:I think I reached a decision. I have an interview on 5/24. Regardless of how that turns out, I plan to put in my two weeks notice that Friday and make June 9th my last day.   
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May 11, 2023 20:23
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And my boss is mad that I told him to get a note and agreed with him that he was getting screwed over because I was "enflaming the situation." I was like "he came in saying he wanted to sue and I suggested a note with a clear repayment scheduled." That's deescalating. And, honestly, what am I supposed to do? Lie to the guy? Last year alone, his twin took 400k out of the business. The guy put in 240k plus that year to keep the place running. Like, I can't in good conscience not tell the guy he's getting hosed. Over 20+ years, he's owed 1.3 million by our count. The dude is right to be mad. They're his dang brothers and they basically robbed him. I have a brother and I literally can never imagine doing something like that to him.
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May 11, 2023 21:31
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Covok posted:And my boss is mad that I told him to get a note and agreed with him that he was getting screwed over because I was "enflaming the situation." I was like "he came in saying he wanted to sue and I suggested a note with a clear repayment scheduled." That's deescalating. And, honestly, what am I supposed to do? Lie to the guy? Last year alone, his twin took 400k out of the business. The guy put in 240k plus that year to keep the place running. Like, I can't in good conscience not tell the guy he's getting hosed. Over 20+ years, he's owed 1.3 million by our count. The dude is right to be mad. They're his dang brothers and they basically robbed him. I have a brother and I literally can never imagine doing something like that to him. Yeah you definitely need to GTFO of there even though part of me wants you to stay so you can keep telling us stories
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May 11, 2023 21:41
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No see OP, Boss’s brother is family and if Boss calls Brother a thief, it’s fine cause A) they’re family and B) Brother is a thief. However if YOU say it, not only are you implying Boss is an idiot for trusting Brother (by implying Brother is untrustworthy), you also imply his brother is a thief and besmirched the family name! Thus, gently caress you. Simple math, really. get out
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May 11, 2023 21:42
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This is one of the few times you should consider quitting without notice. Your boss is going to pitch a huge fit when you resign.
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May 11, 2023 21:48
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cum jabbar posted:This is one of the few times you should consider quitting without notice. Your boss is going to pitch a huge fit when you resign. Listen, I am expecting that. I've already decided if it becomes an issue, then I'll just walk out. But I'll do it right in the beginning and let the leaves fall where they may. ThePopeOfFun posted:No see OP, Boss’s brother is family and if Boss calls Brother a thief, it’s fine cause A) they’re family and B) Brother is a thief. However if YOU say it, not only are you implying Boss is an idiot for trusting Brother (by implying Brother is untrustworthy), you also imply his brother is a thief and besmirched the family name! Thus, gently caress you. Simple math, really. That's a big part of the problem: my boss acts like he's family to the owner's. Because of this, he can't be properly impartial. The brother who got screwed likes me because I tell the truth. My boss lied for a year everything was fine to try and delay the inevitable confrontation. The world just doesn't work like that. And I don't think my boss gets it.
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May 11, 2023 21:57
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This is why I always warn against working for family businesses. Sometimes it's fine but there is a way higher percentage of poo poo like this that happens, and there's never real recourse.
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May 11, 2023 21:59
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I do want to thank you guys. When I first said I was going to quit after my boss was like "he's a sand [slur] and I don't like him" three times in front of a muslim employee, all my friends and family were like "be careful, maybe just put up with it? It isn't good to just bail on work." Now, they slowly shifted. Like my mom did volunteer work and heard some mildly racist talk and went like "oh, wow, this is super loving uncomfortable. I get what you mean now: hearing that every day would be awful." But, all of it kind of gaslit me into thinking I was being crazy. But, I think a lot of it is I never told people the full story: the late paychecks, them paying people under the table, them owing millions to the IRS, the fact the company is massively over leveraged, the owner's embezzling money, and on and on. I probably should have left a lot soon, but, now, I'm close enough where I can probably get away with August to July on a Resume and say the honest truth "my paychecks were becoming increasingly late and I ultimately decided to seek new employment" on a job interview. I mentioned that on a job interview already and the person just nodded and went like "okay, that makes sense: say no more." Seriously, like I said, I have anxiety disorders that make me blind to mistreatment and I think that's why I get locked into bad situations. I know what I'm doing is risky, but it's hit the point where the risk of staying there longer is exceeding the risk of trying my luck elsewhere. Like, my mom is completely right: I am getting sick from stress. I wasn't sick last week with a disease. My tests were completely clean. I am legit getting sick from the stress from work. And I need to start over somewhere hopefully more sane.
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May 11, 2023 23:47
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Covok posted:I am legit getting sick from the stress from work. And I need to start over somewhere hopefully more sane. Delete the lawyer Hit Facebook Gym up
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May 12, 2023 01:04
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Covok posted:I do want to thank you guys. When I first said I was going to quit after my boss was like "he's a sand [slur] and I don't like him" three times in front of a muslim employee, all my friends and family were like "be careful, maybe just put up with it? It isn't good to just bail on work." Now, they slowly shifted. Like my mom did volunteer work and heard some mildly racist talk and went like "oh, wow, this is super loving uncomfortable. I get what you mean now: hearing that every day would be awful." But, all of it kind of gaslit me into thinking I was being crazy. But, I think a lot of it is I never told people the full story: the late paychecks, them paying people under the table, them owing millions to the IRS, the fact the company is massively over leveraged, the owner's embezzling money, and on and on. I probably should have left a lot soon, but, now, I'm close enough where I can probably get away with August to July on a Resume and say the honest truth "my paychecks were becoming increasingly late and I ultimately decided to seek new employment" on a job interview. I mentioned that on a job interview already and the person just nodded and went like "okay, that makes sense: say no more." Generally when you look I would try to focus on the positive, you're leaving for the new opportunity because there are things about it you like, such as the challenge or a new opportunity to learn or a new industry. Try to avoid talking too much about negatives at your last job if you can (I say that as someone today in an interview was forced to talk for 10 minutes about how hosed my last job was because I let slip the wrong thing).
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May 12, 2023 02:59
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Generally thats good advice but "My former company was not making payroll" is an example of relevant info you can share that won't be construed as whining.
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May 12, 2023 04:09
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Lockback posted:Generally thats good advice but "My former company was not making payroll" is an example of relevant info you can share that won't be construed as whining. This. Xguard86 posted:This job sounds more like an abusive relationship. Also this. Notice is not needed for companies like this.
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May 12, 2023 12:39
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The scope of my role has suddenly and greatly expanded. After a very short period as an IC I am now managing a moderate sized team (5-10 direct reports) in a totally different area and reporting to a quite senior exec. We are a middle office function. The company is large, well funded and growing fast with good cashflow; fortunately we are a bit that is currently marked for growth not cost management, but this will inevitably change at some point and my new team is a cost centre. I have had senior roles before so I’m not totally lost but it’s still quite daunting. I have figured out what my new team does, who they are and who else in the business we need to support (and how we do that), as well as doing some personnel management. But there’s an infinite ocean of stuff I could be doing up to and including building out the team to do some new useful functions (monitoring / tracking various things and whatnot) that nobody is doing. The pace of work is also super fast (tech company) so I feel pressure to work out what the hell we should do that isn’t just reacting to requests and start that now while there’s a chance. What I don’t have is any kind of framework for thinking about and prioritising this: there’s just too much white space. I have about a week to work this out. Anyone who’s been here before: how do I even think about all this?
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May 12, 2023 12:49
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Its the challenge of leadership. I've had leadership positions that were more "Follow the book and keep your people productive" and I'd say I've had 2 that were more what your describing. The first I would say was very successful in terms of attaining goals and creating value, but I didn't manage the politics very well and my team was repurposed and I choose a severance rather than a side move into a kinda boring job. My second was green field because I had a good but pretty weak boss who was very much out of his depth and I took over a team that was totally and justifiably headed for the incinerator. I repurposed a bunch of people, brought in a completely new profile of person, and kicked off new initiatives that have grown beyond my sphere and am now part of the senior leadership in engineering. I still don't manage politics super great but now no one seems to care as much. So my first advice is a book that I found very helpful. It's geared toward software but I think it's widely applicable, The Managers Path by Camille Fournier https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth-ebook/dp/B06XP3GJ7F If you're not in Tech at all there may be better books, but this one is very good regardless. My more general advice would be: 1. You cannot invest too much in recruiting and hiring. If you get a team that runs well, and especially if you can develop a emerging leader, your job becomes a lot easier. 2. Listen and tackle opportunities but don't try to force anything. Have Why's when you tackle a new thing, don't just do something because your feeling restless and need to justify yourself. Everyone knows when someone does that. 3. Be comfortable with failing. A big difference between a good leader and a poor one usually comes down to how they handle things when things don't go to plan. You will get a lot of respect for knowing when to shutter a thing you once thought was a brilliant idea. 4. Personally, I love doing skunkwork stuff and asking for forgiveness later. I will put people on "That's a good idea, if I give you 2 weeks do you think you could have a prototype/framework/etc?". But, as posted above, I am not super good at the politics portion so the fact that I do poo poo and tell people later might be related to that. I've had some big successes grow from that though. 5. Your number 1 responsibility is to your direct reports. This is kind of an info dump but what your looking at is the key challenge of leadership, so there isn't any singular path or easy answers. You seem to be taking a good approach though.
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May 12, 2023 15:09
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I couldn't make the two weeks. I put in my notice today. My boss tried to start a fight. I went to the owner I like. I explained everything. He said "you've done great work, you have every right to leave: everyone has their own priorities." I said I was giving two weeks but if the boss made it difficult, it would be earlier. He took my boss in back and explained it. My boss tried to start another fight. I almost walked out and the owner stepped in and made it clear that this isn't happening and it's over. So far, so good.
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May 12, 2023 17:51
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Covok posted:I couldn't make the two weeks. I put in my notice today. My boss tried to start a fight. I went to the owner I like. I explained everything. He said "you've done great work, you have every right to leave: everyone has their own priorities." I said I was giving two weeks but if the boss made it difficult, it would be earlier. He took my boss in back and explained it. My boss tried to start another fight. I almost walked out and the owner stepped in and made it clear that this isn't happening and it's over. Condolences on the income they weren't going to be able to provide you anyway, and glad you've gotten yourself out of a bad situation. Hopefully your next thing comes along quickly Too bad about the continued reporting on the tire fire that was the company you worked for though
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May 12, 2023 18:03
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Congratulations on getting out of that situation Covok! It's for the best for everyone involved, let that ship go down without you on it. Now you have a weekend to relax and decompress somewhat before starting in on job search/interview prep/etc in earnest Monday.
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May 12, 2023 19:15
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Covok posted:I couldn't make the two weeks. I put in my notice today. My boss tried to start a fight. I went to the owner I like. I explained everything. He said "you've done great work, you have every right to leave: everyone has their own priorities." I said I was giving two weeks but if the boss made it difficult, it would be earlier. He took my boss in back and explained it. My boss tried to start another fight. I almost walked out and the owner stepped in and made it clear that this isn't happening and it's over. Finance jobs vary greatly in my experience. I just left a role as a CFO where I was consistently working 55-65 hours a week, there was a sustained period where I worked 70+ during Covid. Leadership team was incompetent and toxic as hell. Expecting an offer on monday (have a meeting with the president for coffee then) and it's about a 5% salary increase with a bonus (which I didn't have before) and they are serious about a 35 hour work week. Leadership team seems very positive and open minded, are asking for solutions etc.. Benefits are better, full medical, unfunded contribution to retirement, more PTO, week after christmas off, etc.. There are much better jobs out there, to be honest if someone makes a big deal out of you not lasting a year at one job that's probably a red flag that you don't want to work there.
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May 12, 2023 19:44
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Turbinosamente posted:Congratulations on getting out of that situation Covok! It's for the best for everyone involved, let that ship go down without you on it. Now you have a weekend to relax and decompress somewhat before starting in on job search/interview prep/etc in earnest Monday. Oh, I'm still doing two weeks. My last day is two Fridays from now. But the rule is, if my boss makes poo poo, I am out. I told the owner that. That's why they shut down my boss. Hard. I told him "I want to do two weeks, but if he makes this difficult I'm going to leave early." And he understood and spoke to him. Twice.
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May 12, 2023 19:54
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leper khan posted:Condolences on the income they weren't going to be able to provide you anyway, and glad you've gotten yourself out of a bad situation. Hopefully your next thing comes along quickly You know, if you want more stories, how about this one? To try to reassure me about the business doing poorly, my rear end in a top hat boss told me about how it was when they were nearing bankruptcy once. Apparently, one of the owners, the one I liked, got angry and needed answers now on something and my boss didn't have the answer. So, the owner flipped my boss' desk. My boss then attempted to leave the building and the owner stopped him. My boss had to threaten to call the police for the other owners to step in, calm their brother down, help put his desk back together and get back to work. He told me this story thinking it'd make me feel better! What the actual gently caress? Edit: Said owner has since gone to therapy to control his angier issues and now is a lot healthier. He actually has a mental illness, he told me once, but a combination of exercise, medicine, and therapy helps him manage it. He seems a lot happier and balanced and I don't think he'd ever do that again, to be honest. It actually is kind of nice how he managed to right himself and he seems to now be very level headed. But still! Edit: Anyway, I don't want to hog thread but I wanted to get that one off my mind. Covok fucked around with this message at 22:39 on May 12, 2023 |
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May 12, 2023 22:35
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Thank for taking the time to write this. I’ll check out the book recommendation! Covok posted:I couldn't make the two weeks. I put in my notice today. My boss tried to start a fight. I went to the owner I like. I explained everything. He said "you've done great work, you have every right to leave: everyone has their own priorities." I said I was giving two weeks but if the boss made it difficult, it would be earlier. He took my boss in back and explained it. My boss tried to start another fight. I almost walked out and the owner stepped in and made it clear that this isn't happening and it's over. You did good, gently caress ‘em.
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May 13, 2023 01:01
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Made a scene today. I am on my two weeks notice. My boss started saying "they're sand nwords. They're rodents" about a customer. I snapped and went "if you say that one more time, I'm walking out." I then reported him to the owners. The owners called him outside and one owner apologized for it, said he'd never say that, said he had black friends. I told him that my boss had used this words in front of our pakistani employee and that I told one of the owners earlier and nothing was done. He went quiet and was like "maybe this guy shouldn't be here anymore." And then the other owner came in and wanted to make sure I'd still be here tomorrow and I said yes but reminded them 5/26 is my last day. My boss has been quiet since then and is clearly trying not to talk to me unless needed to do so. I might have ruined any reference I can get from this place, but I just couldn't sit there quietly doing nothing again.
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May 18, 2023 18:21
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They weren't going to give you a good reference anyway, not least of which bankrupted companies don't give any references. Good on you for speaking up.
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May 18, 2023 18:23
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If the owners weren't dumbasses, which they are, they'd be grateful you saved them a lawsuit
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May 18, 2023 19:01
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Why are you still there
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May 18, 2023 20:28
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Jordan7hm posted:Why are you still there My last day is next Friday and mainly brow beating by my family to do a two weeks notice so I don't ruin my reputation. I'm on my two weeks and my last day is 5/26. Edit: I actually was going to walk out and end my two weeks early but I called my parents and they basically told me to buck up and stick it out and I said my piece. They suggested quitting early but have really pulled back on that since I actually did that. Edit: As I said earlier, I have anxiety issues so my parents are my support line for my panic attack. Covok fucked around with this message at 20:37 on May 18, 2023 |
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May 18, 2023 20:29
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Lockback posted:They weren't going to give you a good reference anyway, not least of which bankrupted companies don't give any references. Good on you for speaking up. Every word of this is correct, but especially the last part. You did an awesome thing. Anyone who would call another human being "vermin" is pure scum and deserves to be held accountable for it, and there aren't going to many times in his life where someone decent is in a position where they can actually afford to teach him that lesson. Saying that speaking up was the right thing to do is a massive understatement, even if there are no better ways to put it. Thank you for doing that.
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May 18, 2023 21:17
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Apparently, I didn't hurt my chance at a good reference? The owner called me in. Asked if I could stay another week. I declined. He said that's fine. He said I did good work and he thinks I'll do great anywhere I go. He said if I needed a reference, he'd give a good one. Then, I brought up the thing from yesterday. I said he says it to the Pakistani employee and it will get them in trouble one day. He said he spoke with my boss last night, aaid he told them this wasn't the first time he has been called out on this, and said they need a lot of tightening up around here. And left it at that.
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May 19, 2023 18:06
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Covok posted:Apparently, I didn't hurt my chance at a good reference? The owner called me in. Asked if I could stay another week. I declined. He said that's fine. He said I did good work and he thinks I'll do great anywhere I go. He said if I needed a reference, he'd give a good one. Then, I brought up the thing from yesterday. I said he says it to the Pakistani employee and it will get them in trouble one day. He said he spoke with my boss last night, aaid he told them this wasn't the first time he has been called out on this, and said they need a lot of tightening up around here. And left it at that. Have a friend call for a reference about a fake job so you’ll know what he’ll actually say.
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May 19, 2023 18:46
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pseudanonymous posted:Have a friend call for a reference about a fake job so you’ll know what he’ll actually say. That's a really good idea. Also, is it just me or is it weird they are willing to let me stay until I find a new job? I bet its just to buy them time to find a replacement and they'd drop me when they did.
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May 19, 2023 19:03
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Covok posted:That's a really good idea. Its this. I mean, I've had employees leaving who I'd still trust so a situation where I can get a trusted person to stay in their seat and maybe win them over, why not? You probably shouldn't do that though, I don't think its going to get better.
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May 19, 2023 19:32
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Lockback posted:Its this. I mean, I've had employees leaving who I'd still trust so a situation where I can get a trusted person to stay in their seat and maybe win them over, why not? You probably shouldn't do that though, I don't think its going to get better. Honestly, I just want to be done. Every day this week, I wished I quit without notice. And me losing it and yelling at my manager didn't help. I won't lie, it's scary going out into the job market without another job. But I got a 2nd round interview for a hybrid job on Wednesday and 12-18 months of expenses. I just can't work in the same room with a racist. It makes my skin crawl. He called Muslims the n-word, rodents, and animals. In any other job, he'd be fired by now. It says a lot that he isn't.
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May 19, 2023 23:23
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Edited: I was overthinking it.
Covok fucked around with this message at 23:17 on May 25, 2023 |
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May 25, 2023 19:45
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My last day today. Only 3 hours left. They can't make payroll again so they need the owner to donate money. Same owner who is getting screwed and wants to sue. The other owner is on vacation for some reason. They just bounced a super important check that will get them in hot water because they spent the money on themselves. And no one wants to pay us. And they are intentionally telling people to wait for their paychecks to make sure they can't run to the bank to artificially make more float. Also, for some odd reason, the victim of racism in the office keeps trying to convince me to stay by saying things like "I like this job" or "this is better than my old job" or "I heard that changing jobs is good but I prefer security. It's going to be so much work to change." Weird. They call him slurs regularly. Whatever. I am glad to be out. Edit: We just got the Dun & Bradstreet report today. It has a 7 on viability, which high to moderate risk of going under, and a 9 on portfolio compairson, which is the worst score. Covok fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 26, 2023 |
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May 26, 2023 18:49
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Glad you are out. Go loving veg out all weekend doing whatever brings you joy and happiness.
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May 26, 2023 21:20
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spwrozek posted:Glad you are out. Go loving veg out all weekend doing whatever brings you joy and happiness. Got to start it early because the owner I like just wanted to see me off. I am leaving on good terms, somehow, despite all the poo poo I said about them to their face. Gift horse, I suppose?
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May 26, 2023 21:45
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They'll be out of business within 18 months but sure.
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May 26, 2023 23:32
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Lockback posted:They'll be out of business within 18 months but sure. Yeah, they'll live a bit longer because I secured 1.3mil for them because some work I did came to fruition, but I don't know how they'll survive the next 30 days until it comes. Also, the owners want to negoitate it up which may delay it. It...is certainly an odd way to act when you are bouncing important checks. Also, it's sitting with me weird how the Pakistani employee routinely called a t****head was trying to convince me to stay. Said staying at a business 3 years should be the minimum to me and said he liked it here and thought it was less stress than his old job. He is trying to bring his wife over here and maybe he wanted me to stay because he hoped I'd replace the racist, but it was odd.
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May 26, 2023 23:44
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The man’s an immigrant trying to bring his family over. I don’t think his motivations are real complex.
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May 27, 2023 00:05
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