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pork never goes bad posted:I love this idea, though I realize not everyone will. Making lore changes part of the fiction of your world is so much more satisfying than just changing them by fiat (look at goblins!). But being able to mirror contemporary social trends in gaming and the ability to tell hopeful stories about positive movements actually succeeding and changing the world (again, goblins!!) is, I think, underappreciated by many in the wider gaming community that's, to some degree, obsessed with the grimdark. Paizo seem like they're embracing that possibility though, which to my mind is nothing but a good thing. Just don't follow D&D example and do multiple events reshaping continents and the planes in succession.
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May 27, 2023 22:26
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Hellioning posted:I feel that all this proves is that Pathfinder marketing itself as 'DnD but different' was a mistake in the first place. Yeah. All those D&D-isms are kind of outing themselves as a shaky foundation for a game, and its interesting to see the parallel in Pathfinder slowly diverging from them while everyone else is trying to make their own I Can't Believe It's Not D&D.
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May 27, 2023 22:40
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I only have moderate experience of Paizo lore (the Pathfinder game I'm in is in a homebrew setting, and one of the two pathfinder podcasts I listen to is in another homebrew setting) but my experience of their lore is that they do a better job than most parts of d&d other than Eberron of creating a living world where "this is the rule in the game setting" is followed by "and this is the effect on the world". And vice versa.
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May 27, 2023 22:56
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Its a perfectly human reaction to be annoyed when something you’d internalised about a system or setting is changed primarily because of “Legal shenanigans beyond our control” The new stuff could be better, could be worse, we’ll have to see. I do hope this leads to a bit more of a systemisation of what info you get from Recall Knowledge, people can’t clutch on scale colour for damage types anymore. We tend towards generous info from Recall Knowledge in our games, (we also have it reveal the creatures Health Bar in Foundry) but I know some GMs are a lot more tight lipped.
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May 27, 2023 23:02
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Lamuella posted:I only have moderate experience of Paizo lore (the Pathfinder game I'm in is in a homebrew setting, and one of the two pathfinder podcasts I listen to is in another homebrew setting) but my experience of their lore is that they do a better job than most parts of d&d other than Eberron of creating a living world where "this is the rule in the game setting" is followed by "and this is the effect on the world". And vice versa. I think there's been an improvement in the world-building over time. When I look a setting element up on the wiki, I often find myself thinking "that's stupid, but the sources are all from a decade ago and I'm not sure it makes sense to consider it still fully canon."
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May 27, 2023 23:05
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Silver2195 posted:Chromatic and metallic dragons are a terrible concept. You can tell the good dragons from the bad dragons because the good ones are shiny? Really? Did anyone genuinely think that was an interesting idea? That way when your druid gets dragon hide armor everyone can tell they are just a weirdo not a loving monster. It's the skin of a person, a fully sapient being. No, but see, it's green so it's okay.
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May 27, 2023 23:11
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HidaO-Win posted:Its a perfectly human reaction to be annoyed when something you’d internalised about a system or setting is changed primarily because of “Legal shenanigans beyond our control” Well no, the big change here is for legal reasons perfectly under control. They just don’t want to backtrack on a decision they made.
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May 27, 2023 23:12
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Kvantum posted:I'm definitely in the camp opposed to it, or at least feeling that Paizo seems to be too actively enthusiastic about it. Cheliax eliminating slavery altogether in favor of indentured servitude or sharecropping? It's just coming off as almost silly. The country whose monarchy is only propped up in power through literal contracts with Hell suddenly looks at slavery and says "oh, well that's just too far!"? Come on. hhhow is it ''forced and performative'' to do a plot point of an an evil devil kingdom pulling off a pr campaign that leaves things every bit as bad, (if not worse), while being more outwardly palatable and easier to trick people into devil contracts? it's not even remotely portrayed as They're Good Now, its just a fantasy version of how america never stopped slavery but everyone gets to pretend we did. it feels kind of weird to zero in on this in particular.
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May 27, 2023 23:19
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That reminds me: I've always found the way green and brass dragons break the symmetry between chromatic and metallic dragons weird. I guess it's a manifestation of D&D's occasional bizarre insistence that poison is automatically evil.
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May 27, 2023 23:20
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Silver2195 posted:I think there's been an improvement in the world-building over time. When I look a setting element up on the wiki, I often find myself thinking "that's stupid, but the sources are all from a decade ago and I'm not sure it makes sense to consider it still fully canon." Interestingly the new dragons were hinted at in lore in like the first handful of Pathfinder adventure path issues, predating even 1e - they just never actually statted them out until now.
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May 27, 2023 23:31
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marshmallow creep posted:Also Cheliax has lost lots of territory because of revolts and outside nations seeing them as this monolithic evil force with slavery and a literally diabolic legal system. Categorically "freeing" their slaves (but preserving the caste system of functional slavery) will win them a PR coup and relieve pressure from rebellions and diplomatic neighbors and possibly win them more allies who will help them enforce the legal limits on freedom. "It's not slavery, it's tithing/wages/free trade." It might even make people say poo poo like, "I'm free!? Bless Asmodeus the Liberator!" and undermine actual good deities. yeah this is establishing that abrogail is still a threat and cheliax is still dangerous and canny in a way that makes them difficult to knock over the next attempt at a paladin-led invasion will have to deal with an army composed in large part of 'ex-slaves' now bound to military service by their contracts, per firebrands
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May 27, 2023 23:39
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Incidentally... https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jqqnbx6X_3DZ2AU1DxeD-ffu7-GcYegU_wpHjSqOpns/mobilebasic
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May 27, 2023 23:52
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The schools were kind of dumb anyway, especially Enchantment. The school of mind control and making cool magic items.
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May 28, 2023 00:03
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Facebook Aunt posted:The schools were kind of dumb anyway, especially Enchantment. The school of mind control and making cool magic items. The schools were a lot more well defined for Pathfinder 1e. Enchantment was purely for mind control and charms and whatnot.
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May 28, 2023 00:06
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Facebook Aunt posted:The schools were kind of dumb anyway, especially Enchantment. The school of mind control and making cool magic items. the last time enchantment was required for making magical items was AD&D 2e, c'mon
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May 28, 2023 00:07
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Divination and Illusion have pretty clear identities, but the others have always suffered from being a bit fuzzy. I saw a discussion of this on the Paizo forums that used Barkskin as an example. Does “the target’s skin becomes covered in bark” mean it’s creating bark (Conjuration) or turning your outer layer of skin to bark (Transmutation)? Or should we consider it Evocation now that there’s an Elemental Plane of Wood? Or is it manipulating life, and thus Necromancy? Actually it’s classified as Abjuration, because it’s defensive. It makes more sense for there to be multiple ways of characterizing spells instead of each spell fitting into exactly one “true” category. Fortunately we already have the groundwork for this approach due to the trait system. For example, you could make the Captivator Archetype work under the Remastered rules by replacing “from the Enchantment or Illusion schools” with “with the Mental trait.” Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 02:15 on May 28, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 01:09
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Spell schools mostly made sense and it’s weird to pretend to be confused about it. It’s been around a very long time and is pretty intuitive. e clueless infomercial husband is a good bit though so I respect it (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 28, 2023 05:14
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No one is asking about my pet bad archetype. I still want to know if elementalist is getting wood and metal spells in Rage of Elements.
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May 28, 2023 05:36
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sugar free jazz posted:Spell schools mostly made sense and it’s weird to pretend to be confused about it. It’s been around a very long time and is pretty intuitive. I think that you only find it intuitive because it’s been around a long time. Apart from Divination and Illusion, the definitions of the schools are broad enough that there are spells that could easily fit in multiple of them. Why is Wall of Force, which creates a barrier, an evocation instead of an abjuration? Why does “necromancy”, the magic of death, cover healing spells? It’s all extremely arbitrary.
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May 28, 2023 05:37
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blastron posted:I think that you only find it intuitive because it’s been around a long time. Apart from Divination and Illusion, the definitions of the schools are broad enough that there are spells that could easily fit in multiple of them. Why is Wall of Force, which creates a barrier, an evocation instead of an abjuration? Why does “necromancy”, the magic of death, cover healing spells? It’s all extremely arbitrary. “Effects and magic items with [the Necromancy trait] are associated with the necromancy school of magic, typically involving forces of life and death.” ???????????????????
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May 28, 2023 06:05
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i'm glad the schools are gone
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May 28, 2023 06:11
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Specialization in schools was the only real good part of them and that wasn't really an option in this system so who cares.
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May 28, 2023 06:26
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sugar free jazz posted:“Effects and magic items with [the Necromancy trait] are associated with the necromancy school of magic, typically involving forces of life and death.” Outside of D&D, and especially in Western fantasy, necromancy has everything to do with death and little to do with healing. The school contains healing effects because it was arbitrarily constructed to do so, not because it makes any actual sense.
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May 28, 2023 07:20
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Hellioning posted:No one is asking about my pet bad archetype. I still want to know if elementalist is getting wood and metal spells in Rage of Elements. Based on the info from PaizoCon, yes. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aVz68CfvCueB-385twnwzLmZJzMVjo8h7BZW-n1rZVI/mobilebasic
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May 28, 2023 13:05
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MonsterEnvy posted:The concept not being super interesting does not matter. I like the designs and personalities of the dragons, and I will miss them. That's the extent of it. The new Dragons could be an improvement in every single way, and I will still miss the old ones. I've been playing D&D for over thirty years and couldn't tell you a single difference between brass, bronze, and copper dragons offhand if you held a gun to my head
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May 28, 2023 14:06
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gtrmp posted:I've been playing D&D for over thirty years and couldn't tell you a single difference between brass, bronze, and copper dragons offhand if you held a gun to my head Um... one has a breath weapon that's a line, another has a cone and.... uh... hrm...
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May 28, 2023 14:31
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Novel dragon varieties seem neat. One of the fundamental strengths of tabletop games is you can make up your own poo poo, so there is nothing stopping you from reflavoring a Diabolic dragon as a Red dragon or brewing up your own version of a Red, whatever floats your boat. I like the classic D&D stuff too but none of this is particularly upsetting.
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May 28, 2023 14:34
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Actually I just got off the phone with paizo and all dragon miniatures are going to be grey now. I told them to make them impossible to paint as well. I did it because you've lived a life of sin.
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May 28, 2023 14:38
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I'm trying to find a magic item, but I'm not sure if I read about it or if I dreamt it up. Is there something that changes a spell's attack roll to be a saving throw by the target instead?
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May 28, 2023 15:37
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blastron posted:Outside of D&D, and especially in Western fantasy, necromancy has everything to do with death and little to do with healing. The school contains healing effects because it was arbitrarily constructed to do so, not because it makes any actual sense. well youre playing a d&d knockoff so it’d be good for you to familiarize yourself with the very old logics of the game you’re playing so things start to make more sense
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May 28, 2023 15:38
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Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:I'm trying to find a magic item, but I'm not sure if I read about it or if I dreamt it up. Is there something that changes a spell's attack roll to be a saving throw by the target instead? https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1073
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May 28, 2023 15:54
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Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:I'm trying to find a magic item, but I'm not sure if I read about it or if I dreamt it up. Is there something that changes a spell's attack roll to be a saving throw by the target instead? Real thing! Shadows signet
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May 28, 2023 16:00
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Hugoon Chavez posted:Real thing! Excellent, thanks! Our GM asked for magic items we'd be interested in, so hopefully I can pick that up before the AP ends.
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May 28, 2023 16:18
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sugar free jazz posted:well youre playing a d&d knockoff so it’d be good for you to familiarize yourself with the very old logics of the game you’re playing so things start to make more sense Hey, you accidentally hit on the reason for the change! Paizo doesn't want PF2 to be a D&D knockoff anymore, so lots of things that are just the way they are because that's how D&D does it are getting changed. Sure it's mostly petty and won't really change most people's perception, but it also means your point is worthless.
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May 28, 2023 16:59
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Lmao it's true but that had to be the worst possible way of saying that.
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May 28, 2023 17:14
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sugar free jazz posted:“Effects and magic items with [the Necromancy trait] are associated with the necromancy school of magic, typically involving forces of life and death.” sugar free jazz posted:well youre playing a d&d knockoff so it’d be good for you to familiarize yourself with the very old logics of the game you’re playing so things start to make more sense Is this whole "I can't understand other people's perspectives" thing a bit?
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May 28, 2023 17:21
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gtrmp posted:I've been playing D&D for over thirty years and couldn't tell you a single difference between brass, bronze, and copper dragons offhand if you held a gun to my head Well I said I would miss the Chromatic Dragons not the Metallics. Thought for Differences, Brass are whimsical talkative tricksters, with short attention spans who try to foster networks of communication. Copper Dragons are capricious and wily hedonists who are nonetheless sympathetic towards others. Bronze Dragons are scholarly and stoic preservationists (generally of ancient lore that interests them.)
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May 28, 2023 17:47
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sugar free jazz posted:well youre playing a d&d knockoff so it’d be good for you to familiarize yourself with the very old logics of the game you’re playing so things start to make more sense or they could ditch the old nonsensical poo poo to be more inviting to people without having to dig into irrelevant 'very old logics'. which they are. which is the whole point. seriously what is this bit???
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May 28, 2023 19:18
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pork never goes bad posted:Is this whole "I can't understand other people's perspectives" thing a bit? i understand the perspective, it's dumb as poo poo. the school involves forces of life and death, it's written in plain text, it makes perfect sense that it would also include healing magic. if the life and death school having life giving magic is confusing to you then like, there are bigger problems here because the logic of it is written in plain language. same for the other schools. Skyelan posted:or they could ditch the old nonsensical poo poo to be more inviting to people without having to dig into irrelevant 'very old logics'. which they are. which is the whole point. seriously what is this bit??? it wasn't complicated or confusing in the least, and if you were confused by it then you also have some stuff to work on and i wish you success in your future of actually reading and knowing the system you're playing
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May 28, 2023 19:50
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If you don't get how the average joe's perspective is going to be "necromancy = dead/undead poo poo" then I think you're just being intentionally obtuse. In less stupid nonsense, has there been anything Alchemist-related in any of the Paizocon talks?
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May 28, 2023 20:11
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