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Shooting Blanks posted:Another dodge. Are you sure you aren't a GOP plant in here? I provided 2 examples of historical precedent. Please kindly argue against it instead of accusing me of bad faith posting. I’m sure mods will take swift action here for this clear violation of rule B.1 Meatball posted:Since the dems decided that getting rid of the debt ceiling wasn't important when we "blue no matter who"'d them into full control of the government, this was always going to happen. I wonder what the Republicans will demand next time. I know this is where you are going but it needs to be explicitly stated: Dems have the same interest as republicans which is why they didn’t do anything during the 2 years they were in full power. That’s not even going into when Obama had a super majority.
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May 28, 2023 13:29
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:
I mean, you were going to say this no matter what happened. The IIJA and Inflation Reduction Act were never going to count because it would hurt your worldview.
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May 28, 2023 13:32
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Shooting Blanks posted:Another dodge. Are you sure you aren't a GOP plant in here? Violating rule I.C.U.P. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours.
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May 28, 2023 13:32
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:I provided 2 examples of historical precedent. Please kindly argue against it instead of accusing me of bad faith posting. I’m sure mods will take swift action here for this clear violation of rule B.1 I asked you to describe it. You failed to do that. Please put into your own words what those things mean. If you think oblique references (including one partly in Latin!) count then you'll lose. Shooting Blanks fucked around with this message at 13:38 on May 28, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 13:33
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Shooting Blanks posted:I asked you to describe it. You failed to do that. Please put into your own words what those things mean. If you thing oblique references (including one partly in Latin!) count then you'll lose. You accused me of being a republican plant. I don’t see the value in engaging with you further if you are jumping out the gate to accuse me of posting in bad faith when I have provided the information you requested. Mooseontheloose posted:I mean, you were going to say this no matter what happened. The IIJA and Inflation Reduction Act were never going to count because it would hurt your worldview. Those stopped the debt ceiling nonsense? Someone should inform Biden. Maybe someone is and it’s just lost in the shuffle along with BBB.
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May 28, 2023 13:42
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loling at the accusation of using Latin to obfuscate a request to cite legal precedents
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May 28, 2023 13:46
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:You accused me of being a republican plant. I don’t see the value in engaging with you further if you are jumping out the gate to accuse me of posting in bad faith when I have provided the information you requested. I asked you multiple times to provide details first. You never did. You still haven't. Thanks for gaslighting.
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May 28, 2023 13:47
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'Republican plant' is weird language but I suppose 'Russian plant' is played out now.
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May 28, 2023 13:48
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:. That's not what you said, you said the Democrats were never going to do anything.
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May 28, 2023 13:49
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Mooseontheloose posted:That's not what you said, you said the Democrats were never going to do anything. Yes. About the debt ceiling. The context of the conversation. I was even responding to a post specifically referencing as much.
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May 28, 2023 14:00
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Yes. About the debt ceiling. The context of the conversation. I was even responding to a post specifically referencing as much. My bad then.
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May 28, 2023 14:08
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Mooseontheloose posted:My bad then. No harm no foul.
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May 28, 2023 14:13
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Shooting Blanks posted:The delay is a problem. How long would it take to be fast tracked to SCOTUS? Absolute best case scenario, we're talking about months. That still fucks over every single person in the US. It's a bad solution. If the other option is the markets crashing, I suspect that they'd clear their docket overnight. That said, it'd be in response to challenging the Executive ordering the Treasury to ignore Congress, so in theory it would at least see government employees, the military, and veterans still getting paid.
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May 28, 2023 14:17
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Liquid Communism posted:If the other option is the markets crashing, I suspect that they'd clear their docket overnight. That said, it'd be in response to challenging the Executive ordering the Treasury to ignore Congress, so in theory it would at least see government employees, the military, and veterans still getting paid. That's not a bet I want to make
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May 28, 2023 14:19
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Twincityhacker posted:>>> "Vote blue no matter who"
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May 28, 2023 14:28
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Shooting Blanks posted:That's not a bet I want to make It's one that's going to come eventually. When's a better time for you, or is it too inconvenient and needs to be kicked down the road to be the next generation's issue?
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May 28, 2023 14:29
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What happened in here lol
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May 28, 2023 14:31
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I doubt he wants it to exist for nefarious purposes or killing poor people and making his corporate overlords money as people here seem to be asserting and more that it’s the usual political jockeying and calculus of “if we do this then it’ll look bad for when we try to get re-elected because we’ll be the party of debt!” Always afraid to do something the other side might try to make an issue out of rather than doing things that people would like and would get them voted, that’s damming enough for how the democrats run things
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May 28, 2023 14:33
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Liquid Communism posted:It's one that's going to come eventually. When's a better time for you, or is it too inconvenient and needs to be kicked down the road to be the next generation's issue? I'm 3 months from being homeless, ask me again when it's a better time for me. It's lovely when people who have don't listen to those who don't.
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May 28, 2023 14:36
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Shooting Blanks posted:I'm 3 months from being homeless, ask me again when it's a better time for me. It's lovely when people who have don't listen to those who don't.
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May 28, 2023 14:39
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cat botherer posted:More work requirements for SNAP doesn't help people in desperate situations, either. I don't use SNAP. And I haven't advocated for or against the program, but basic food should be free in this country, we can afford it.
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May 28, 2023 14:41
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Staluigi posted:What happened in here lol Several years of the moderators not enforcing the rules.
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May 28, 2023 14:43
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Shooting Blanks posted:I don't use SNAP. And I haven't advocated for or against the program, but basic food should be free in this country, we can afford it.
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May 28, 2023 14:44
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Thank god we avoided them shooting the hostage, all we had to do was let them maim the hostage and also not release them.
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May 28, 2023 15:15
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Republicans get to cut taxes for the rich and blow up the deficit when in power. When not in power Republicans get to extract concessions from democrats using an entirely fabricated series of debt crises. They can't legislate, so they get the Democrats to do it for them. What it all boils down to is whether or not we avoided the worst case scenario via this specific action. All of the accusations of bad faith posting are misplaced. People can reasonably disagree about what would have happened if no deal had been reached.
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May 28, 2023 15:24
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Honestly the next time we hit the "limit" and the treasury goes to its measures, Biden if president should invoke the 14th amendment then and there and say "you don't like it, do the courts." That would give enough time for any case to be heard
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May 28, 2023 15:24
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AtomikKrab posted:Honestly the next time we hit the "limit" and the treasury goes to its measures, Biden if president should invoke the 14th amendment then and there and say "you don't like it, do the courts." That would give enough time for any case to be heard
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May 28, 2023 15:27
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I was trying to find when work requirements for SNAP recipients were enacted & I had no idea it's been almost 30 years:quote:The mid-1990s was a period of welfare reform. Many states had waivers of the rules for the cash welfare program, Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) before major welfare reform legislation was enacted in 1996. The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunities Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) (PL 104-193) removed the entitlement of recipients to AFDC and replaced that with a new block grant to states called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF). I assume the work requirements were part of Clinton's vaunted welfare "reform" and I assume that's what Biden was referencing when he said he was on record as supporting such requirements. Have there been any legislative attempts to overturn these requirements since 1996? Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 15:42 on May 28, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 15:40
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Biden literally said that removing the debt ceiling would be irresponsible back in October. He wants to keep it even though the GOP has been using it to threaten the country in the past decade. A bill was introduced in the House back in 2021 and it languished in a committee. The Dems had the power to now have this crisis but they let it happen.
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May 28, 2023 15:43
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In addition to the Haley & Pence town halls that CNN is planning, which I mentioned the other day, Fox News is hosting a Trump town hall this week, but this one will be pre-recorded: https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1661875575475011584
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May 28, 2023 16:00
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Whether or not we can afford SNAP is beyond the point. Giving people free money with no work requirement incentivizes feelings of entitlement and makes them worse people. And before you say “but many SNAP recipients work!” Well, the work requirement should be waived for those people. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 28, 2023 16:13
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pencilhands posted:Whether or not we can afford SNAP is beyond the point. Giving people free money with no work requirement incentivizes feelings of entitlement and makes them worse people. no it doesn't.
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May 28, 2023 16:22
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pencilhands posted:Whether or not we can afford SNAP is beyond the point. Giving people free money with no work requirement incentivizes feelings of entitlement and makes them worse people. And before you say “but many SNAP recipients work!” Well, the work requirement should be waived for those people. Spoken like someone who's never needed a safety net in their life.
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May 28, 2023 16:29
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pencilhands posted:Whether or not we can afford SNAP is beyond the point. Giving people free money with no work requirement incentivizes feelings of entitlement and makes them worse people. And before you say “but many SNAP recipients work!” Well, the work requirement should be waived for those people. Jesus christ, what the hell is this? Even if this line of thought wasn't horrific and wrong, SNAP is food assistance. It's not cutting someone a check with no strings, it's providing them with a bare minimum level of assistance so that they can acquire food and groceries in order to stay alive, which is incidentally the barest loving minimum thing that we, as a society, should ensure everyone has. Would you consider a school providing free lunches to hungry kids to "incentivize feelings of entitlement and make them worse people"? Should those little mooching shits starve unless the school keeps them after class to scrub pots and floors?
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May 28, 2023 16:33
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pencilhands posted:Whether or not we can afford SNAP is beyond the point. Giving people free money with no work requirement incentivizes feelings of entitlement and makes them worse people. And before you say “but many SNAP recipients work!” Well, the work requirement should be waived for those people. Worse people? Do you moralize like this for ppl that got their PPP loans forgiven? Or for ppl with tax credits for their mortgages?
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May 28, 2023 16:34
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Kanos posted:Jesus christ, what the hell is this? It's a troll account the mods have known is a troll account for six months, but have refused to remove. Thus, the thread is now theirs. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:43 on May 28, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 16:39
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pencilhands posted:Giving people free money with no work requirement incentivizes feelings of entitlement oh no human beings feeling entitled to food, which is all you can buy with SNAP
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May 28, 2023 16:41
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pencilhands posted:Whether or not we can afford SNAP is beyond the point. Giving people free money with no work requirement incentivizes feelings of entitlement and makes them worse people. And before you say “but many SNAP recipients work!” Well, the work requirement should be waived for those people. The gently caress. Like, yeah, there is a tiny amount of people who do that, but you shouldn't deny 99% of people loving FOOD just so that 1% "get a free ride" or whatever garbage thought you have here. Most people just... want to live reasonably happy lives, and that usually means they want to feel loving productive and have a not poo poo job.
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May 28, 2023 16:43
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The work requirements thing really sticks in my fuckin' craw. What I heard - not sure if this is going to be the final provision - is that they are expanding existing work requirements for childless 18-49 year olds to 50-55 year olds. It affects so few people, which is good, but they're also vulnerable people and such a weirdly specific group to make the explicit victims of this bill. It has to be, what - a few tens of thousands of people, if that? It's just... mean. Otherwise the deal is basically a total victory. Slight cuts in the next two years by voiding scheduled budget increases, but avoids standoffs with Republicans over the debt ceiling again, or over the budget, where they could try to extract more concessions. Ugh, that fuckin' work requirement thing, though, blah. I hope Biden talks about how stupid and petty it is when he signs the bill. He should apologize for failing to protect powerless people from Republicans. virtualboyCOLOR posted:And there it is. This is a manufactured problem with a legitimate way out but never miss an opportunity to scold the vulnerable. I'm not saying we should necessarily be "scolding" people who didn't vote for Sean Patrick Maloney (NY-17), Adam Gray (CA-13), Carl Malinga (MI-10), Adam Frisch (CA-3), or Cindy Axne (IA-3). But it should be permissible to note that if more people had voted for those candidates, then we would not have had these cuts. End of story, period, full stop. "Dems wanted cuts!" you insist. Yeah, well, why didn't they cut way more, then? Why did they only cut like, 1% of what McCarthy initially asked them to cut? theCalamity posted:Biden literally said that removing the debt ceiling would be irresponsible back in October. He wants to keep it even though the GOP has been using it to threaten the country in the past decade. And that's what all of this is: it's slightly cowardly, overly-conventional politics, which is just about exactly what I expected when I was forced to vote for Joe Biden over Donald Trump. Staluigi posted:What happened in here lol Something incredibly predictable.
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May 28, 2023 16:50
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pencilhands posted:Whether or not we can afford SNAP is beyond the point. Giving people free money with no work requirement incentivizes feelings of entitlement and makes them worse people. And before you say “but many SNAP recipients work!” Well, the work requirement should be waived for those people. I hope you spend an eternity in the hell of maggots. Have a nice day! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 28, 2023 16:51
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