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Fangz posted:Then I just have no idea what being in the blood war actually involves then, or at least the game did a really bad job of explaining it. the blood war is the eternal war across the planes between the Lawful Evil devils of the hells and the Chaotic Evil demons of the abyss that is either a bad thing because of all the collateral damage or a good thing because otherwise their combined might would overwhelm everyone else
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May 22, 2023 03:35
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Fangz posted:I'm altogether not convinced that the end result we see is the best redemption, or why it's better than the Blade of the Immortal ending (aside from what you have to do for that, which an evil character won't care about) And also it's not really a crisis that is mappable to anything in real life. Just for the record, you don't need the Blade of the Immortal to do that, you can do the same thing with a Wisdom check. I guess it's a worse ending in that you don't get to send your party back home, but otherwise I don't think the game makes any judgment that it's not a viable alternative. Though I've always been of the reading (as with Fall-From-Grace's quote someone posted upthread) that being condemned to hell isn't forever. The Nameless One's soul is more than bulky enough that it won't become a petitioner, and will, on a cosmological timescale, claw its way out of hell, karmically neutral. Greaseman posted:I can imagine a version of the story where TNO's driving motivation involves wanting to stop the Transcendent One's shadows from constantly trying to kill him, and ends with the both of them agreeing to leave each other be and enjoy being immortal. I forget exactly how it goes, but it is stated somewhere that retaining your memory means that the immortality spell is running low on juice and is starting to drain your mind instead, which you will eventually lose if you keep ignoring it. I could still see a version of The Nameless One that is fine with that, so my best guess for why it's not an option is that The Transcendent One would never agree to leaving him be. And for what it's worth, there is an entire separate version of the final encounter for an evil Nameless One, where instead of talking about the necessity of restoring balance or atoning for all the previous incarnations' sins, his motivation is just "I am so loving tired, I just want this to end, whatever it takes."
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May 22, 2023 03:42
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It's a loving fifty years old game, you can stop putting everything into god drat spoiler blocks
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May 22, 2023 05:34
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Didn't someone say they were playing it for the first time?
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May 22, 2023 07:09
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Rude. Why do some goons get so mad at having to click once on spoiled text before reading it?
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May 22, 2023 07:14
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steinrokkan posted:It's a loving fifty years old game, you can stop putting everything into god drat spoiler blocks I appreciate people using the spoiler blocks. This thread made me interested in the game and I've not played it before
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May 22, 2023 09:12
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yeah sometimes people can be absurdly uptight about spoilers but much like disco elysium, the mystery and discovery in planescape is a big part of the appeal on a first playthrough and it's lame to potentially ruin that for someone in an entirely unrelated thread it's not like it's easy to experience every single piece of old media you know you might be interested in, i don't think the age of a work really matters unless it's something that's inescapably entered popular culture
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May 22, 2023 09:28
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If something is old enough, I generally won’t worry about spoilers but if someone indicates that they’re watching/playing it for the first time or haven’t seen/played it then yeah I’m going to treat it like it just came out and spoiler everything
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May 22, 2023 15:51
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I bounced off of P:T because the writing wasn't engaging enough for me moment-to-moment to overcome the gameplay also being boring. Disco's "gameplay" isn't really fun, but it does itself a service by not even pretending to shoehorn in a combat system or whatever. You know what you're getting as a player, and the content has to be good enough to be its own reward, because there is literally nothing else there.
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May 22, 2023 16:06
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That was one of those things that got me really excited early on in DE, which I played not knowing how strongly influenced Kurvitz was by PST, but it became very apparent very quickly that they picked up on every lesson from that game, and throwing out combat is like the first thing on everyone's list for it. Very good game, that Disco Elysium.
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May 22, 2023 16:10
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It was surprising to look at the design documents and concept art and discover that a tactical combat system was one of the core concepts originally. I can't imagine any other game development team ditching combat like that even when it makes perfect sense.
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May 22, 2023 16:16
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By popular demand posted:It was surprising to look at the design documents and concept art and discover that a tactical combat system was one of the core concepts originally. 
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May 22, 2023 16:32
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there is a combat system. you roll dice to fight measurehead, the krenels, and noid (projectile weapon). I can assure you I understand everything contained within the game.
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May 22, 2023 18:45
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panko posted:there is a combat system. you roll dice to fight measurehead, the krenels, and noid (projectile weapon). I can assure you I understand everything contained within the game. And Cuno, of course
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May 22, 2023 19:02
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Cuno doesn't loving care about your dice rolls, pig.
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May 22, 2023 19:03
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I still would've wanted a part where you could feign death with high drama, combat or not
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May 22, 2023 19:10
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ps:t lets the player character commit suicide to prove a point like a dozen times. d:e lets you do it once. checkmate, aliveailures.
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May 22, 2023 19:37
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World War Mammories posted:Disco Elysium: I can assure you that I understand everything contained within the game,
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May 23, 2023 02:52
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https://twitter.com/bearshome_art/status/1658626542669275140
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May 23, 2023 11:20
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Bar Ran Dun posted:It’s not a nihilism. It’s the weight of the past, the cumulative oppression of choices made and history lost. It’s those ideas weighing on the world. It’s not the destruction of meaning. It’s destruction by accumulation of meaning. It's the same thing. One cannot measure shadow without first having a light. Consider the "Everything bagel" from EEAAO. Acebuckeye13 posted:To try and provide an actual response, I'd like you to expand on why you view the Pale is simply nihilistic, because I don't really see it? I personally found all the information provided about it to be extremely neat and complimentary to the game's themes — how it drives people into (literal) nostalgia, how its expansion fuels the sense of despair and hopelessness, but also how it also holds within it the promise of discovery and creation. It's complimentary to the Revolution and the ongoing Coalition occupation, as well as Harry's own disaster of a personal life: Something incredible happened once before, a promise of a new world and a greater future, and it could happen again, so long as we do not give into the crush of hopelessness. It was boring, and its aspect of "Reinforcing the plot" is totally negated by the fact that it was boring as poo poo and mindbogglingly stupid. Hopelessness and despair are meme emotions, and trying to prey upon those to reinforce your bullshit metaphysics is just sad. We already have to deal with legions of sad lads mad that their revolutions failed and their lives are totally controlled by reminiscence and substance abuse. The Pale adds nothing to the game, it's set dressing of the worst kind, the kind that obscures the actual interesting parts of the game, the characters and dialogue, in favor of rambling nonsense about radio waves, history, and italicized art. dead gay comedy forums posted:
Thorough world building as you call it, is a flaw. One can easily draw comparisons between mental fragments presented in stories, this is actually a large part of what processing things is on a basic level, you connect the novel event to the familiar to the foundational event and then use the similarities and differences to discern meaning. You need about ten percent of what DE gives you for that, the rest is cruff. There's a reason Borges is such a good writer, many of them in fact, but one is because the lad knew when to stop loving writing and let the work work instead of "explaining" and "fleshing out" his works to death.
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May 28, 2023 05:25
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Gaius Marius posted:It's the same thing. One cannot measure shadow without first having a light. Consider the "Everything bagel" from EEAAO. Yes consider the bagel. The bagel is the concrete universal. Remember all that ontologically inverted structurally identical talk from the other thread. There’s a point I’ve made elsewhere about hope. The context of hope is the absence of its object. Hope is a negation of a negation. Contextually the pale is a negation of the world by the ideas of the past. The story is DE is however not one of “meme emotions” like hopelessness or despair. The story is a negation of negation. It’s about hope, that isn’t a lie. 
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May 28, 2023 07:37
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The reason why I avoided Disco Elysium like the plague for a long, long, long time is that my primary form of learning about it were incorrigibly hopeless internet dipshits, or ideologically starved leftists whose two purposes in life are to revel in watching other's misery or to wallow in their own and being racist when socialism outside of the first world is brought up, or people who won't shut the gently caress up about Žižek, or someone like them. The vibe of the game I got from reading what they wrote was that of misery porn, which is something that I utterly loathe, especially when it's meant to describe a world deeply familiar to me. While I still have my criticisms of the game, I'm glad I gave it a shot, since it's genuinely nothing of the sort. There is one specific thing about the game which I came to appreciate, and is pretty masterful by the authors - it uses the language of detached internet weirdoes and uses them as a delivery mechanism to get the game and its message of genuine hope to people they tend to associate with, and who need to hear it and can still be reached by it. And by genuine hope I mean the hope that goes past despair and helps you understand how you relate to the world, not the empty shell of waiting for better things to come. It's really clever. The delivery mechanism caused me to avoid the game, but that's fine because I'm not the intended audience for its message. And that's not a bad thing! There are people who needed to hear it, and I'm glad for them.
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May 28, 2023 10:28
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Gaius Marius posted:Hopelessness and despair are meme emotions, Pal. It's okay to not like something without having an especially coherent reason for it. Life is short. Calm down. Drink some fruit juice. Eat a sandwich. Sit in the sun and enjoy a sorbet or something. With each of your posts that I read, I become more and more convinced that one of us is experiencing a stroke. Maybe the game just didn't vibe with you. That's okay! You don't need to justify it with a rambling, grasping thesis, especially not to a forum full of random aging internet clowns.
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May 28, 2023 13:20
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my dad posted:The reason why I avoided Disco Elysium like the plague for a long, long, long time is that my primary form of learning about it were incorrigibly hopeless internet dipshits, or ideologically starved leftists whose two purposes in life are to revel in watching other's misery or to wallow in their own and being racist when socialism outside of the first world is brought up, or people who won't shut the gently caress up about Žižek, or someone like them. The vibe of the game I got from reading what they wrote was that of misery porn, which is something that I utterly loathe, especially when it's meant to describe a world deeply familiar to me. The part where they built a literal house of cards and inframaterialism being magic is why this game is on par with the communist manifesto [insert 10,000 more words about some communist philosopher’s influence on ‘say one of these communist or fascist things or gently caress off’]
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May 28, 2023 13:27
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what
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May 28, 2023 13:29
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my dad posted:what Heh not surprised you don’t get it… obviously you haven’t read Étienne Balibar like me and Kurvitz have…
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May 28, 2023 13:33
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my dad posted:The reason why I avoided Disco Elysium like the plague for a long, long, long time is that my primary form of learning about it were incorrigibly hopeless internet dipshits, or ideologically starved leftists whose two purposes in life are to revel in watching other's misery or to wallow in their own and being racist when socialism outside of the first world is brought up, or people who won't shut the gently caress up about Žižek, or someone like them. The vibe of the game I got from reading what they wrote was that of misery porn, which is something that I utterly loathe, especially when it's meant to describe a world deeply familiar to me. Having gone into the game as a fairly doomery leftist in early 2020 I found the game to be genuinely helpful with processing how terminally hosed things felt at the time, and the importance of finding something, no matter how small or obscure, to be hopeful about. Hope as an act of resistance. In dark times, should the stars also go out, etc. Disco Elysium is therapy.
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May 28, 2023 13:42
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i am a moron posted:Heh not surprised you don’t get it… obviously you haven’t read Étienne Balibar like me and Kurvitz have… If you're trying to achieve something by namedropping a lefty French philosopher I've never heard of and making nebulous connections, you're not achieving much. Those guys are a dime a dozen. Address a specific thing in specific terms or gently caress off.
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May 28, 2023 13:54
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I'm a moron is making fun of the bloviating, detached online leftists you complained about
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May 28, 2023 14:01
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steinrokkan posted:I'm a moron is making fun of the bloviating, detached online leftists you complained about My bad, I'm a victim of Poe's law I guess.  Apologies for missing the joke. e: Seriously, though, someone namedropping a French philosopher on me without any further elaboration is a thing that happened an infuriating number of times, and this hit that note accurately enough for me to miss the point. So, uh, well done. my dad fucked around with this message at 14:13 on May 28, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 14:01
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Yes, there should be therapistS specializing in Lacan induced PTSD
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May 28, 2023 14:14
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Gaius Marius posted:It was boring, and its aspect of "Reinforcing the plot" is totally negated by the fact that it was boring as poo poo and mindbogglingly stupid. Hopelessness and despair are meme emotions, and trying to prey upon those to reinforce your bullshit metaphysics is just sad. We already have to deal with legions of sad lads mad that their revolutions failed and their lives are totally controlled by reminiscence and substance abuse. The Pale adds nothing to the game, it's set dressing of the worst kind, the kind that obscures the actual interesting parts of the game, the characters and dialogue, in favor of rambling nonsense about radio waves, history, and italicized art. it's a climate change metaphor
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May 28, 2023 15:45
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the real question, though, is if battler-san is a piss f****t fellow or a gently caress-the-world fan
Somebody fucked around with this message at 14:21 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 16:05
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Gaius Marius posted:Hopelessness and despair are meme emotions How so?
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May 28, 2023 16:30
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dead gay comedy forums posted:How so? Didn't you know? Everybody's been faking despair all along, for a laugh! In reality everybody is happy and optimistic, sorry you didn't get the memo, we thought it was obvious
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May 28, 2023 16:40
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Ur a meme
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May 28, 2023 16:49
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Gaius Marius posted:It's the same thing. One cannot measure shadow without first having a light. Consider the "Everything bagel" from EEAAO. I am so horny right now
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May 28, 2023 16:49
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maybe all of the emotions, the colors that paint whole breadth of human experience, are really just "meme emotions." really makes you think
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May 28, 2023 16:58
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Disco Elysium: Hopelessness and despair are meme emotions,
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May 28, 2023 17:10
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my dad posted:The reason why I avoided Disco Elysium like the plague for a long, long, long time is that my primary form of learning about it were incorrigibly hopeless internet dipshits, or ideologically starved leftists whose two purposes in life are to revel in watching other's misery or to wallow in their own and being racist when socialism outside of the first world is brought up, or people who won't shut the gently caress up about Žižek, or someone like them. The vibe of the game I got from reading what they wrote was that of misery porn, which is something that I utterly loathe, especially when it's meant to describe a world deeply familiar to me. What critiques do you have of the game, btw?
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May 28, 2023 18:08
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