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I will say I’m pretty glad this dropped on Memorial Day weekend. Thank you for your service, Barry.
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May 30, 2023 09:18
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2house2fly posted:What i wish they'd done is have no title card until the "oh wow" bit, and then instead of cutting to black do the title card with theme music. I know they wanted to tease a Sopranos ending, but cone on guys. Title card and theme music. Golden opportunity! Someone has already done that on Twitter. Eh I like finding put what happened to Sally and especially the kid outside of Barry's control. It's a more humanistic angle than otherwise I think.
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May 30, 2023 11:59
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oh jay posted:What do you want out of death beach? It was a hallucination of the people he's killed just as he himself was on death's door. It was a fun piece of symbolism, but what would revisiting it do? Don't get me wrong here, the show isn't ruined for me because some weird oddity like the death beach scenes felt like it was supposed to lead somewhere and didn't. The show isn't ruined for me just because the finale felt a bit flat outside of the supremely good scenes. This is just a tiny nitpick is all. DaveKap fucked around with this message at 12:06 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 12:02
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DaveKap posted:Considering the show revisited it a couple more times, I'd like the show to tell me what it did other than seem like something that was leading to something. If it was just that one time, it would've made more sense to me but the revisits had me thinking it was leading up to something. The show didn't revisit death beach; it just played with the idea of people (well, Sally) seeing someone she killed in various situations. I think Barry had a hallucination in jail, but there was, to my memory, no more beach scenes. Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 12:31 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 12:27
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Tiberius Christ posted:I'm on the side of good ending, the whole show has been a nihilistic comedy and in a weird way everyone gets what they wanted in the end. The only bullshit ending would have been Barry surviving to the end, guys been too much of a loving monster. Also NohoHank prequel still available, maybe it'll be like Better Call Saul and also have an alright ending. you did watch both shows right?
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May 30, 2023 12:43
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How’d everybody read the parting shots of Sally? Her looking a little crestfallen and unfufilled and then looking over again at the bouquet in the passenger seat. Didn’t know what to make of it but also had my head buried in Succession memes so likely I missed something
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May 30, 2023 14:23
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so did succession succ or not
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May 30, 2023 14:24
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Jackson Polack posted:How’d everybody read the parting shots of Sally? Her looking a little crestfallen and unfufilled and then looking over again at the bouquet in the passenger seat. Didn’t know what to make of it but also had my head buried in Succession memes so likely I missed something I took it as her accepting that it was okay not to have her name in lights, it was okay to measure her success in seats filled in her small town school play, and a bouquet was as good as an Oscar if you let yourself be content. She was the one who wanted to turn herself in. She finally got out of the shadow of a violent and/or emotionally unavailable man, and is perhaps a little over-cautious, completely shutting down the handsome history teacher. But she's overcorrecting on not retreading another Dad/Sam/Barry situation. I think it's not for nothing that the only two main characters who survive and don't end up doing life in jail (Fuches and Sally) are the ones that show they can feel genuine remorse, sincere self-reflection, and/or honest change. Or something IDK I'm not a TV watching genius.
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May 30, 2023 14:29
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Owlbear Camus posted:I took it as her accepting that it was okay not to have her name in lights, it was okay to measure her success in seats filled in her small town school play, and a bouquet was as good as an Oscar if you let yourself be content. She was the one who wanted to turn herself in. She finally got out of the shadow of a violent and/or emotionally unavailable man, and is perhaps a little over-cautious, completely shutting down the handsome history teacher. But she's overcorrecting on not retreading another Dad/Sam/Barry situation. I took it as the opposite - she was so preoccupied with validation that she took her eyes off the road to look at the flowers (for long enough that I was worried she was going to crash). She also sought validation from John immediately after the show. Shutting the history teacher down seemed more like egotism than caution, especially since she immediately failed to reciprocate her son's "I love you." I'm still mulling the finale over, but all in all I really enjoyed Barry and will likely do a re-watch at some point. Maybe even soon!
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May 30, 2023 14:54
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Shageletic posted:Someone has already done that on Twitter. Eh I like finding put what happened to Sally and especially the kid outside of Barry's control. It's a more humanistic angle than otherwise I think. Do you have a link to that?
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May 30, 2023 15:08
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I love how they sketched out Sally and John's life after Barry. A lot of little things that imply more, like how the snow shows they're not in California without anyone needing to make a point of it. Sally is still clearly Sally. She loves being on stage and getting that kind of attention. She needs the validation, but some flowers and a few words from her son are enough. She doesn't need the ego boost of some guy being into her (which is absolutely how she ended up with Barry). Sally is also clearly a better mom but not necessarily a good mom. There is a noticable sense of distance between her and John, but she is watching out for him in some ways. (Telling him not to watch the movie.)
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May 30, 2023 15:08
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It's probably no accident she left Barry as he slept, same as Sam.
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May 30, 2023 15:19
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Wittgen posted:I love how they sketched out Sally and John's life after Barry. A lot of little things that imply more, like how the snow shows they're not in California without anyone needing to make a point of it. Sally is still clearly Sally. She loves being on stage and getting that kind of attention. She needs the validation, but some flowers and a few words from her son are enough. She doesn't need the ego boost of some guy being into her (which is absolutely how she ended up with Barry). They're not in LA anymore, plenty of parts of California get snow.
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May 30, 2023 15:20
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Owlbear Camus posted:I took it as her accepting that it was okay not to have her name in lights, it was okay to measure her success in seats filled in her small town school play, and a bouquet was as good as an Oscar if you let yourself be content. She was the one who wanted to turn herself in. She finally got out of the shadow of a violent and/or emotionally unavailable man, and is perhaps a little over-cautious, completely shutting down the handsome history teacher. But she's overcorrecting on not retreading another Dad/Sam/Barry situation. This was generally my read on it too. She's still hosed up in some ways but she took Hank's final comments to her about why she went back to Barry to heart.
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May 30, 2023 15:47
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Tagichatn posted:They're not in LA anymore, plenty of parts of California get snow. Also, parts of the greater LA area did get snow this last season. oh jay fucked around with this message at 15:53 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 15:51
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Either way the heavy snow is easy shorthand for "left Hollywood behind". I'm glad John has a friend at the end and seems relatively well adjusted considering his childhood and his parents. That's as happy an ending as anything in this show could get. I'm sure he's still like, incredibly hosed up from everything, but at least he can exist in normal society as a regular person.
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May 30, 2023 17:08
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I don’t see how Sally shutting the history teacher down reflects badly on her. Her last boyfriend boyfriend was Barry! And the guy before him was also an abusive rear end in a top hat. I thought her definitively saying no was actually a good thing for her and showed that she has at least kind of moved on with her life.
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May 30, 2023 17:21
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I liked that two characters who made unambiguous moves to protect John (Fuches and Sally) are the two we get to see move on. The show pointedly showed us that they aren't wholly changed, Fuches is still a crime lord who's probably going down in a hail of gunfire eventually, and Sally, god the "I love you" broke my heart. But they're alive, they're free. Watching it live, I was convinced Barry deciding to turn himself in, even if just for a moment, was enough for his salvation. On reflection, that may just be my southeastern American protestant upbringing coming out. I'm still very much in, "loved the finale" zone, though I definitely can understand how a person wouldn't be. I agree the whole thing would have been better drawn out with the time skip coming between S4 and a S5.
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May 30, 2023 17:34
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I gotta say, I really feel that time skip was some pretty bush league writing. It added nothing new to any of the characters, despite adding an entirely new character to the mix. It completely ruined all the tension the show built up over its run and it never regained any of it back. And honestly, I didn’t think the writing of the last three episodes was anywhere near strong enough to make up for such a silly hook. I get what they were going for, but it just completely fell flat for me. Maybe on a rewatch it’ll be…fine, but I think that’s probably as good as it’ll get for me. Just really didn’t like the last few narrative choices they made. That moment when Sally says, “Barry…?” and him looming out of the darkness towards her was one of the most tense moments I’ve ever experienced in a tv show. And they blew the follow through.
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May 30, 2023 19:43
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I really enjoyed the finale, but season 4 was a bit of a wild ride. I didn't enjoy the timeskip and the time spent on the run really felt rushed, like they couldn't figure out a way to give Barry what he wanted while his legacy still ate at him. Barry jumping into Christianity didn't feel cheap to me. There's been a running thread where Barry sincerely questions the things he's done. The show began with him being disillusioned with the traveling hitman lifestyle. He saw the acting class with Ryan and realized there could be a better life for him. And then it was through acting: a reality that you make it out to be. I think it was back in season 2 when he asks NoHo Hank, "am I a bad guy?" and Hank without pause compliments him, "Oh Barry.. You're the worst!" Him trawling the Christian podcasts until he found one that fit his forgiveness criteria was spot on with that constant search. The other running thread imo has been the critique of Hollywood. Season 3 had that amazing bit at Banshe about the algorithm deciding what's good and what's not. They also touched on Hollywood revisionism with Joplin ignoring what actually happened in favor of a happier ending. Mask Collector giving an insane Hollywood take on the real events fit right in.
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May 30, 2023 19:51
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Loved the finale my only real complaint is I think it was a real missed opportunity to not have the original theme play right after Gene kills Barry, especially after seeing people make edits of it online. I had been hoping they were gonna save that needle drop for the finale and was disappointed that we never got it again. Otherwise really good, and really loving bleak.
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May 30, 2023 20:03
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Seemed like a fine way to end everything. Maybe not as crazy as people are used to last episodes being. Take out the character deaths and I do think there could have been one more season of story. But hey, bill hader is probably better off making a new show and starting from scratch. It really didn't poo poo the bed though... not like the ted lasso finale will this week. Anybody who thought this was bad should look into what that show is doing in its last season. What a loving mess.
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May 30, 2023 20:13
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AmbientParadox posted:The other running thread imo has been the critique of Hollywood. Season 3 had that amazing bit at Banshe about the algorithm deciding what's good and what's not. They also touched on Hollywood revisionism with Joplin ignoring what actually happened in favor of a happier ending. Mask Collector giving an insane Hollywood take on the real events fit right in. It mostly worked for me in Barry and I'm glad it's there, but I can never shake the feeling that these "Hollywood making fun of Hollywood" bits are more funny for the people making them than they are for me watching it.
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May 30, 2023 20:19
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Thinking about the Mask Collector having Barry deliver the Macbeth monologue instead of Sally, I like to think that the writers actually knew it was Sally, but thought the scene would be too insane for a mainstream audience to accept, so they changed it, while keeping the set piece.
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May 30, 2023 20:36
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Lister posted:Seemed like a fine way to end everything. Maybe not as crazy as people are used to last episodes being. Take out the character deaths and I do think there could have been one more season of story. But hey, bill hader is probably better off making a new show and starting from scratch. Counterpoint: this season of Lasso has been good and cool
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May 30, 2023 20:37
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oh jay posted:Thinking about the Mask Collector having Barry deliver the Macbeth monologue instead of Sally, I like to think that the writers actually knew it was Sally, but thought the scene would be too insane for a mainstream audience to accept, so they changed it, while keeping the set piece. Sally gets zero characterization in the biopic
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May 30, 2023 20:39
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Barry "finding religion" absolutely tracks. He's been casting about for any external support structure or pretense to stop doing evil "starting... now" since s1e1. It also lead to the payoff where he prays for God to make his assault on the Nohobal compound successful and his family rescued safely even if he has to sacrifice his own life. Noble enough ask grading on a curve. But then ...and PS I also want it to count for complete absolution of the other stuff.
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May 30, 2023 20:53
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When there were several beats before the casting for Gene was revealed my dumb rear end was so ready for DDL to appear completely forgetting it was part of the ego trap and not real interest from him in the project. Also I’m an idiot because when Johns friend was saying you should get to watch it I somehow thought it was going to be like a a Call of Duty trick shot compilation or some shot to indicate Sally still retained some of Barry’s parenting or that John still had the same juice at dominating gunfights like his dad. Either way I was ready to laugh and didn’t get that exactly. I liked the ending and it’s decisions more than what I was thinking for sure. A crappy made for tv movie that leaves his kid smiling actually felt very sweet even if the point is Hollywood bad.
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May 30, 2023 21:13
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Owlbear Camus posted:Barry "finding religion" absolutely tracks. He's been casting about for any external support structure or pretense to stop doing evil "starting... now" since s1e1. Yeah it seemed pretty clear to me that Sally and John weren't even half as interested in Christianity as Barry was and he was really only interested in it insofar as a moral code he could fit himself into without making any effort to change himself to do so.
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May 30, 2023 21:30
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Takes No Damage posted:Those shots of Hank laying at the feet of Cristobal were a loving baroque painting I’ve been wracking my brain on this one. It’s not Pieta, but it feels familiar.
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May 30, 2023 21:38
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I wonder if the pose at the end was inspired by a particular sculpture?
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Jackson Polack posted:When there were several beats before the casting for Gene was revealed my dumb rear end was so ready for DDL to appear completely forgetting it was part of the ego trap and not real interest from him in the project. I hope the producers tried to reach DDL for the role, that would have been so amazing
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May 30, 2023 21:50
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Pirate Jet posted:Yeah it seemed pretty clear to me that Sally and John weren't even half as interested in Christianity as Barry was and he was really only interested in it insofar as a moral code he could fit himself into without making any effort to change himself to do so. Yes, totally tracks. Barry's completely stunted, basically still at the level of a child. He was an ideal soldier because he's excellent at taking and executing orders, but at no point in the show is he capable of self-actualization or high-level critical thinking. This is probably what made him such an appealing mark for Fuches: a super effective blunt instrument who's incapable of being in the driver's seat. Fuches just had to assert authority, which is exactly what Barry needed to function. "Don't worry about the complexities, just do what I say." God is thus the ultimate authority figure for Barry. "Here's a book full of instructions. No critical thought required. Do what it says and you're a good person." Which is exactly what he wanted. No need to be anxious about your choices, no need to grapple with the morality of anything you do, let Jesus take the wheel.
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May 30, 2023 22:02
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I felt like Sally turning down the history teacher was just a joke based on like lifetime-movie style endings, like we're expected to think she's probably going to move on and create a stable family, but she's just like no thanks this guy seems a bit corny and boring.
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May 30, 2023 22:30
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Barry is a man who, under pressure, admitted he only likes soup for the broth. That says everything, really.
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May 30, 2023 22:32
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Chris James 2 posted:Perfect ending to a perfect show imo. I wouldn't change a thing Funny, I feel the same way about Namond's mom in The Wire.
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May 30, 2023 22:40
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I was on the fence about the timeskip but I thought the ending ruled. I couldn't stop laughing as soon as I saw where the movie was going.
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May 30, 2023 23:20
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Oh man, I just noticed the Chinese subtitles when the Chechens are talking in the movie because they're watching a bootleg rip. I love their attention to detail.
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May 30, 2023 23:25
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LOL that's the one scene he knows for certain is pure bullshit.
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May 30, 2023 23:27
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Annabel Pee posted:I felt like Sally turning down the history teacher was just a joke based on like lifetime-movie style endings, like we're expected to think she's probably going to move on and create a stable family, but she's just like no thanks this guy seems a bit corny and boring. Partially this, but I also read that (and Sally compulsively glancing at the flowers in the seat next to her) as a suggestion of disquiet. Sally's whole thing is artistic ego. She feels that she deserves the spotlight, deserves accolades, and acts out with rage and jealousy when she feels she's being denied those things. When she "chose" a family with Barry, it was an act of despair and not something she ever embraced, even years later. She isn't a good or attentive mother. The Lifetime movie ending would've been pat and cliched, but I don't think Sally turned him down for being corny or boring. She turned him down because her entire life feels boring to her. She won't be happy without constant applause, without doing "important" work which makes her famous and celebrated. I can't imagine being some school drama teacher is enough, and some tiny suburban life married to the history teacher wouldn't be, either. Which is ultimately no different from Gene, another middling actor who couldn't make it work, so instead became a teacher. And he never stopped striving for fame, either...at the expense of his family and relationships.
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May 30, 2023 23:31
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Gum is at the checkout aisle, Barry.
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May 30, 2023 23:46
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