|
Evil Kit posted:I know exactly who you're talking about and I genuinely cannot remember the name of the YouTuber. I also know who this is but I can’t remember who either lol
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 18:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
Endorph posted:i forget who but i remember a youtuber mentioning that he got sent an ad offer by raid shadow legends, said no, got sent another like a week later, didnt say anything, got sent another a couple weeks later, said no and to stop sending him offers, got sent an ad offer a week later, sent them goatse, and then got sent another ad offer I know a streamer who said he'd only do the sponsored thing if he could just review all the armor in the game instead of playing it because he's a sword and armor nerd, and they let him.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 18:47
|
|
|
Most of the smaller streamers I follow have been sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends at some point. Usually because their subs have taken a hit due to them being ill or switching games and they need a little extra cash to tide them over. It's funny, chat is always super sympathetic and shares instructions for the exact minimum amount of things to do with the referral link so the streamer can hit whatever quota is needed. E: maybe not so funny, streaming is a rough way to make a living Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 19:43 on May 31, 2023 |
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 19:37
|
|
|
They will also pay, I remember one small (around 70k subs at the time) Youtuber I followed asking the community whether they should take the offer and while they didn’t say an exact number they did say it would be more money than they’d ever had in their life.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 19:40
|
|
|
I want one of the random streamers to read the ad copy, verbatim, like Ben Stein trying desperately hard to stay awake at an understaffed DMV. Like negative net energy recital.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 19:41
|
|
|
Better than segueing into their balls for a Manscaped ad.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 20:40
|
|
|
No Wave posted:Kotick made 480 million dollars out of thin air when he conned 12 of his acquaintances into buying into the overwatch league. 480 million dollars and in exchange he gave them absolutely nothing. I cant think of a better/worse deal in the history of business. I guess thats why the board still seems to like him despite being the world's easiest scapegoat. Ofc thats not the kind of thing you can brag about publicly. Wait how did he get away with it unscathed? I get loving over workers and consumers without consequences, but isn’t loving over other rich people a big no-no line your not supposed to cross?
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 21:10
|
|
|
Methylethylaldehyde posted:I want one of the random streamers to read the ad copy, verbatim, like Ben Stein trying desperately hard to stay awake at an understaffed DMV. Like negative net energy recital.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 21:11
|
|
|
ConfusedPig posted:Wait how did he get away with it unscathed? I get loving over workers and consumers without consequences, but isn’t loving over other rich people a big no-no line your not supposed to cross? that would require them to admit theyve been scammed. a lot of rich people would rather lose millions and write something off as a 'failed experiment' than admit they got conned.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 21:12
|
|
|
ConfusedPig posted:Wait how did he get away with it unscathed? I get loving over workers and consumers without consequences, but isn’t loving over other rich people a big no-no line your not supposed to cross?
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 21:13
|
|
|
ConfusedPig posted:Wait how did he get away with it unscathed? I get loving over workers and consumers without consequences, but isn’t loving over other rich people a big no-no line your not supposed to cross? Everything is fine as long as you keep your contractual obligations and don't violate securities law. Theranos got in trouble for the fraud, not for taking the money. If they had just sold the vision of the future instead of declaring that it functioned today, that company would be pulling in billions in DOD contracts instead of the founders rotting in jail for the next decade.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 21:24
|
|
|
No Wave posted:Truthfully. It is one of the strangest things I have ever seen. I would love an actual deep investigation into wtf actually went on there and why random companies were paying tens of millions of dollars to get cuts of twitch stream revenue. Or why twitch paid ONE HUNDRED MILLION dollars to host overwatch league for two years. The entire situation is pure insanity and I've never read an account that makes any sense of it. Like crypto feels ordinary compared to what happened here. also it was just not 12 companies, there was a second round of companies that also bought in, and I think they were supposed to pay even more than the first companies.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 21:27
|
|
|
My old boss, who was a marketing exec, explained to me that for Mobile games, once you're fully saturated and completely run out of normal user acquisition options, then you turn to youtube and commercial TV. The ROI is terrible and the quality of the users (as in how much they're willing to spend) is garbage but gotta make those user acquisition numbers go up somehow.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 22:28
|
|
|
Endorph posted:brutalmoose did a review of an old D&D tutorial VHS with full cheesy wizard costume so he just read the raid shadow legends ad copy while dressed in a cheap wizard costume, that was a decent bit Brutalmoose is a master of making his ads fun, though. I wish he still did games like he used to.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 22:36
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:My old boss, who was a marketing exec, explained to me that for Mobile games, once you're fully saturated and completely run out of normal user acquisition options, then you turn to youtube and commercial TV. The ROI is terrible and the quality of the users (as in how much they're willing to spend) is garbage but gotta make those user acquisition numbers go up somehow.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 22:47
|
|
|
Vegetable posted:What’s a normal user acquisition option Ads in other mobile games, ads on store pages, paying for 'promoted' status on the app store. Bullshit ads that auto loaded the app store page when they loaded on some random gaming site, lots of ways.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 23:03
|
|
|
Methylethylaldehyde posted:Ads in other mobile games, ads on store pages, paying for 'promoted' status on the app store. Bullshit ads that auto loaded the app store page when they loaded on some random gaming site, lots of ways. Yeah, anything where you can target specific users, FB ads, Google Ads, Applovin, etc. Commercial advertising, is untargeted and therefore has a piss poor cost per install. Most successful mobile apps publishers are actually User Acquisition machines that happen to have game studios attached to them.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 23:23
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:Yeah, anything where you can target specific users, FB ads, Google Ads, Applovin, etc. I mean, the bar for 'good mobile game' is apparently thirst bait jpg collection with some kind of very basic gameplay loop attached. With like 700% more
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2023 23:35
|
|
|
Fruits of the sea posted:Most of the smaller streamers I follow have been sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends at some point. Usually because their subs have taken a hit due to them being ill or switching games and they need a little extra cash to tide them over. Yeah, i've said this before, but my wife's a YouTuber with around a million and a half subs, and for the longest time Raid Shadow Legends was THE sponsorship to get. Both because they really didn't care about what the ad itself said, and because you could essentially name your price. She didn't want to do it at first, so I told her just to do the usual thing of making up a rate that she knew they wouldn't pay. She quoted like triple her usual rate, and they emailed back a few minutes later with "sure, sounds good." It's like the Insane Clown Posse stories about their wrestling events, you might get paid in a trash bag full of $20's, but you're going to get paid your full amount, and on time. Raid will pay you want you want and they don't make you wait for your money. Unlike some sponsors who STILL owe us money from years ago. Cough...cough...Dollar Shave Club...cough. We Got Us A Bread fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
Methylethylaldehyde posted:I mean, the bar for 'good mobile game' is apparently thirst bait jpg collection with some kind of very basic gameplay loop attached. With like 700% more Running things profitably is absolutely part of being a good game dev shop.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 00:40
|
|
|
We Got Us A Bread posted:Yeah, i've said this before, but my wife's a YouTuber with around a million and a half subs, and for the longest time Raid Shadow Legends was THE sponsorship to get. Both because they really didn't care about what the ad itself said, and because you could essentially name your price. She didn't want to do it at first, so I told her just to do the usual thing of making up a rate that she knew they wouldn't pay. She did, and they emailed back a few minutes later with "sure, sounds good." It's like the Insane Clown Posse stories about their wrestling events, you might get paid in a trash bag full of $20's, but you're going to get paid your full amount, and on time. Raid will pay you want you want and they don't make you wait for your money. Unlike some sponsors who STILL owe us money from years ago. Cough...cough...Dollar Shave Club...cough. Ok, you need to tell us stories about the ICP backyard wrestling league. Because that both sounds completely insane, and like some kind of feverdream 90s wrestling game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 00:41
|
|
|
We Got Us A Bread posted:Yeah, i've said this before, but my wife's a YouTuber with around a million and a half subs, and for the longest time Raid Shadow Legends was THE sponsorship to get. Both because they really didn't care about what the ad itself said, and because you could essentially name your price. She didn't want to do it at first, so I told her just to do the usual thing of making up a rate that she knew they wouldn't pay. She did, and they emailed back a few minutes later with "sure, sounds good." It's like the Insane Clown Posse stories about their wrestling events, you might get paid in a trash bag full of $20's, but you're going to get paid your full amount, and on time. Raid will pay you want you want and they don't make you wait for your money. Unlike some sponsors who STILL owe us money from years ago. Cough...cough...Dollar Shave Club...cough. basically everyone marketing via explicit youtube promos is taking advantage of creators not having the first clue how much their ability to promote stuff is actually worth in real terms and are effectively buying advertising for pennies on the dollar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
Herstory Begins Now posted:basically everyone marketing via explicit youtube promos is taking advantage of creators not having the first clue how much their ability to promote stuff is actually worth in real terms and are effectively buying advertising for pennies on the dollar. It's this. YouTube has creators so incredibly paranoid about demonetization that they're willing to take pennies just to have some sort of financial security. For example, the first 48 hours of a video's life is where most of the money comes from for a creator. YouTube loves to hold monetization on a video while they "review it", but the video's still up and getting seen. The reason that one of her videos got "reviewed?" They use the horrible auto subtitle system to create a transcript, and then the bots check THAT...the bots said that she said a slur for Japanese people. She's half-Japanese, and the word was "wrap." So then the video gets re-monetized, but that first 48-hour bump is gone. Methylethylaldehyde posted:Ok, you need to tell us stories about the ICP backyard wrestling league. Because that both sounds completely insane, and like some kind of feverdream 90s wrestling game. Indie wrestling promoters are well known for being carny as gently caress, and the wrestlers often don't get paid at all, or get paid $50 of their promised $200, for various promoter excuses. ICP are known as being actual honest promoters who don't gently caress over their talent, which automatically puts them in the top tier. The "$20's in a trash bag" story comes from Bobcat Goldthwait who said that after he did his set at the Gathering of the Juggalos, he wasn't looking forward to having to track down the promoter to get paid. Instead, Violent J is waiting for him backstage, thanked him profusely for performing, and handed him his fee in the form of a trash bag full of $20's. Bobcat said that it's the fastest he's every gotten paid after a gig. The Terry Funk story about ICP is my favorite: 
We Got Us A Bread fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 00:53
|
|
|
leper khan posted:Running things profitably is absolutely part of being a good game dev shop. I'd argue that it depends on your goals. If you are viewing game dev as the shortest path to potential profits, then that tracks and I welcome you to the entire mobile game market. If you are instead putting value on the creative arts, then I'd say you don't need to make a profit to be successful. Now, if you want to make another game, obviously that'll become a problem real fast. It irks me a fair bit that the mobile / P2W market is lumped in with the creative sector. There are nuanced reasons for this I'm not going to get into, but I digress. Games - the creative variety - are a bit sacred to me and I'd argue strongly that Okami is not a Bad Game because it was commercially unsuccessful, and that Genshin Impact isn't a Good Game because it made a ton of it. And with that  on the table, I'm not judging people for working on any product. People gotta eat and pay bills and poo poo. I have worked on games I'm not at all proud of.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 01:06
|
|
|
Endorph posted:that would require them to admit theyve been scammed. a lot of rich people would rather lose millions and write something off as a 'failed experiment' than admit they got conned. Yeah, this. Being 'money geniuses' rather than beneficiaries of a rigged game is fundamental to their self-worth, identity, and outward projection of influence and power.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 01:32
|
|
|
Canine Blues Arooo posted:I'd argue that it depends on your goals.  Real artists feed their children. If a studio can't continue as an ongoing concern because their games don't earn a profit, they have failed as a studio. We don't need a return to hire/fire cycles and persistent instability for workers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 03:12
|
|
|
leper khan posted:
They have failed as a business. That may or may not be the same thing as failing as creators. Van Gogh sure as hell failed commercially, only being recognized after his death. But people in 2023 seem to like his paintings regardless. (Sure sucks for him though) The point is that a work's success from a media-criticism angle is only loosely correlated to its success from a making-money angle. Hell, in a lot of AAA studios that latter measure has more to do with the publisher's marketing team than with the developers actually making it. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 03:36
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/covingtown/status/1663998815458951168?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 04:26
|
|
|
We Got Us A Bread posted:Yeah, i've said this before, but my wife's a YouTuber with around a million and a half subs, and for the longest time Raid Shadow Legends was THE sponsorship to get. Both because they really didn't care about what the ad itself said, and because you could essentially name your price. She didn't want to do it at first, so I told her just to do the usual thing of making up a rate that she knew they wouldn't pay. She quoted like triple her usual rate, and they emailed back a few minutes later with "sure, sounds good." It's like the Insane Clown Posse stories about their wrestling events, you might get paid in a trash bag full of $20's, but you're going to get paid your full amount, and on time. Raid will pay you want you want and they don't make you wait for your money. Unlike some sponsors who STILL owe us money from years ago. Cough...cough...Dollar Shave Club...cough. Obviously don’t want hard numbers but how financially viable is that many subs? Is it actually something one person could live off of? I’ve heard various things over the years about that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 04:54
|
|
|
edit nvm who cares
BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 05:38
|
|
|
Endorph posted:i forget who but i remember a youtuber mentioning that he got sent an ad offer by raid shadow legends, said no, got sent another like a week later, didnt say anything, got sent another a couple weeks later, said no and to stop sending him offers, got sent an ad offer a week later, sent them goatse, and then got sent another ad offer That's Raid's business model. From what I've heard of their pay structure it heavily depends on viewers who actually buy stuff during the stream. It's barely sponsored, it's turning them into a commissoned salesperson. Edit: looking at other comments this is probably really variable. The one I saw (can't recall exact details) was stuff like "$X if viewers buy this many $50 packs, $Y for this many $100 packs" et cetera. I've seen a streamer begging his viewers to buy more during the sponsor period. Bruceski fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 05:45
|
|
|
MarcusSA posted:Obviously don’t want hard numbers but how financially viable is that many subs? Is it actually something one person could live off of? I’ve heard various things over the years about that. 1099 taxes eat up more of it than you think, and at 1.5mil most of the money is coming from sponsorships, not adsense, but it is very much financially viable. I'll just give a range...at that level, we (using we since I help with scripts and research and stuff) clear, after taxes, between $100k to 250k a year. We Got Us A Bread fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Jun 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 07:02
|
|
|
and here i thought it'd be a while before blizzard hit a new low
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 07:06
|
|
|
We Got Us A Bread posted:1099 taxes eat up more of it than you think, and at 1.5mil most of the money is coming from sponsorships, not adsense, but it is very much financially viable. I'll just give a range...at that level, we (using we since I help with scripts and research and stuff) clear, after taxes, between $100k to 250k a year. Amazing! Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 07:10
|
|
|
leper khan posted:
The state of this thread
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 07:42
|
|
|
In the US the FTC has fairly extensive (and, under this administration, actually enforced) policies on the use of endorsements, including, iirc, recently updated guidance on the use of influencers. FTC's also very unusual among federal agencies in that their guidance materials are very easy to read. The general guidance on endorsements, updated in 2021 iirc: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-16/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-255 A bunch of material for influencers: https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/disclosures-101-social-media-influencers A recent set of "penalty offence notices" (basically, "we're not saying you're doing something wrong, but we're formally telling you what the standard is, so we can absolutely destroy you if we find you doing this poo poo") sent to a metric ton of companies who were using endorsements online: https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/notices-penalty-offenses/penalty-offenses-concerning-endorsements The last one is controversial for complex legal reasons, but if you're in a part of the games industry that does a lot of this sort of promotion (or if you're a streamer taking corpo money, etc), it's worth reading up on what the actual standards are in the US. Again, this stuff is way more accessible than most US regulation.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 07:46
|
|
|
Does the FTC go after small-time youtubers for stuff like this, though, even in a "hey so we noticed, cut that poo poo out"? I don't know if it's just "most people are too small-fry individually to be worth making an example of", but the only FTC action I've heard about this sort of thing was around a couple of Actual Celebrities puffing up NFTs a year or two back, and as everyone knows the Raid Shadow Legends stuff has been going on for...what, the better part of a decade at this point?
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 08:03
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Theswweet/status/1664182360622120974?t=ECYznGNGmNYgDaxMz7uaZA&s=19
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 09:37
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:https://twitter.com/Theswweet/status/1664182360622120974?t=ECYznGNGmNYgDaxMz7uaZA&s=19 Stole the Chaos Diamonds, eh?
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 09:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 00:43 |
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:https://twitter.com/Theswweet/status/1664182360622120974?t=ECYznGNGmNYgDaxMz7uaZA&s=19 Just look at the rings pouring out of him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2023 09:51
|
|
