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Didn't the original White Wolf tracing fiasco take place with black and white art ripping off Dante?
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May 30, 2023 14:08
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3rd ed D&D was the first time I saw gaming books switch to the glossy full-color standard. I imagine after that nobody wanted to look "cheaper" than D&D, which lead to that becoming the new standard. Which has also contributed to de-diversifying the hobby. A system that might have sold well as a $10 ashcan zine would get bloated into a full color / full art glossy $50 hardcover. And flounder because the system just wasn't worth $50 for most people.
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May 30, 2023 14:13
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I believe the first full-color RPG books were the AD&D 2E Monstrous Manual and the Underground RPG, both released around the same time (presumably GenCon) in 1993.
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May 30, 2023 14:18
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I hate these glossy full color books. US comics are like that, as well. I don't need the dye to seep into my fingers as I'm reading, thank you very much. Looking at you, DIE! More like DYE!
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May 30, 2023 14:27
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PoontifexMacksimus posted:Further edit: one point I just spotted in Knox's "Hitler's Italian Allies" is that apparently a lot of the field kitchens sent from Italy for service in the desert where old clunky WW1 pieces and... wood fired... Reality trumps fiction? It's like you don't even care about pizza quality.
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May 30, 2023 16:27
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Other things about Campaign For North Africa's pasta rule: - The rule should have equally applied to British troops, who went through a lot of water brewing up their tea every day. - The rule shouldn't have applied to Italian units at all. Italian pasta rations as issued were apparently similar to Spaghetti-Os (canned, in sauce) so they didn't need additional water to cook.
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May 30, 2023 16:40
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Kinda lol the reality makes the Italians look even more ridiculous. Sounds like they managed to have even worse to nonexistent logistics than the Nazis. The Italians weren't as bad as popular histories would lead you to believe. A lot of that image was the result of British WWII propaganda, an attempt to undermine Italian morale. PoontifexMacksimus posted:Further edit: one point I just spotted in Knox's "Hitler's Italian Allies" is that apparently a lot of the field kitchens sent from Italy for service in the desert where old clunky WW1 pieces and... wood fired... Reality trumps fiction? And there's a good example of downplaying the Italian army. German field kitchens - Gulaschkanone - were also wood fired, or, like Italian field kitchens, they could burn coal. They're both just a big stove with a rack underneath that holds either fuel:  The idea that Italians used old WWI stuff while other, presumably the Germans, had something more advanced is just wrong. They're all just big stoves with wheels. Cessna fucked around with this message at 17:16 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 16:58
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Also North Africa isn't just endless tracts of sand dunes. There are trees and brush, especially in places where people live. And the first battles for the Italians in WWII were in eastern africa south of Egypt, places like Eritria, Kenya, Somalia. Those places have indigenous populations that relied on wood fuel for centuries. Later, fighting in the deserts of the northwest, there were often fast sweeping attacks across huge open areas and I'd think that's where a reliance on locally-sourced fuel for cooking could become a big problem. But even then, the movements were (I think always? maybe just usually) not that far south from the coast, where there's more population and water and vegetation.
Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 17:42
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Cessna posted:The Italians weren't as bad as popular histories would lead you to believe. A lot of that image was the result of British WWII propaganda, an attempt to undermine Italian morale. So that thing about Italian officers having silk sheets and such sent to the front while they observed things from an extremely safe distance away weren't true? (This isn't a gatcha, which I figure you'd know, but just in case.)
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May 31, 2023 00:53
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Do Italian officers have to make a death save when moving in range of their own AA guns?
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May 31, 2023 01:52
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moths posted:3rd ed D&D was the first time I saw gaming books switch to the glossy full-color standard. I mean this ties into how printing as a whole started seeing costs rise out of proportion to inflation and that drove up the price of books, magazines, newspapers, etc. None of it’s cheap enough to be disposable anymore so you may as well try and make it look nice.
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May 31, 2023 04:41
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Dawgstar posted:So that thing about Italian officers having silk sheets and such sent to the front while they observed things from an extremely safe distance away weren't true? (This isn't a gatcha, which I figure you'd know, but just in case.) Sure, the Italian army had a lot of problems. Their officers were, as you point out, distant and poor leaders. Their equipment was often obsolete garbage - they bought most of it a over decade too early, leaving them underprepared when the war started. And, most importantly, they were sent to battles they didn't wany by an rear end in a top hat dictator. But, that all said, the popular image of them surrendering instantly or being hopelessly inept is wrong. Even though they were outclassed and poorly led they often fought hard.
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May 31, 2023 15:20
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The Japanese army also had a lot of outdated equipment, but as far as I know, they don't have the same reputation as the Italians. Because they initially did very well, I guess.
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May 31, 2023 15:35
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FMguru posted:I believe the first full-color RPG books were the AD&D 2E Monstrous Manual and the Underground RPG, both released around the same time (presumably GenCon) in 1993. The 2e PHB was released in 1989 and was full color.
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May 31, 2023 15:46
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whydirt posted:The 2e PHB was released in 1989 and was full color. Not the first “edition.” The black cover revised printing came out in 1995 and that one was full colour, but the first “edition” is black and white with a blue accent colour and what looks like eight pages of full color inserts. If you’re not familiar with printing presses, having a colour section or colour inserts is different from being full colour.
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May 31, 2023 15:52
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Halloween Jack posted:The Japanese army also had a lot of outdated equipment, but as far as I know, they don't have the same reputation as the Italians. Because they initially did very well, I guess. They were also fighting in very different conditions. The deficiencies in tanks, for example, became more glaringly obvious in the open desert warfare of North Africa as opposed to fighting on tiny islands.
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May 31, 2023 16:09
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gradenko_2000 posted:Speaking of absolute dirtbags, Ryan Dancey decided today was a good day to delve into gender essentialism in game design Ryan S. Dancey posted:
Is it wrong that this reads like a modern-day version of "I just don't get broads. They get offended when I complement their knockers and smack them on the rear end"? His whole initial post just reads like a giant doublestandard basically saying "We don't publish games (from women) in these categories (please ignore the games we published that deal with politics, are light or are meant for groups). What I want from women are pitches for games in "competetive" markets, but the competitive markets are saturated, so we probably wouldn't accept those kinds of games." It honestly does sound like he's personally set an almost insurmountable bar for women specifically to surpass, and doesn't understand why women may go to literally anyone else before pitching a game to them.
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May 31, 2023 16:11
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Thanks for the clarification. My point was that the first edition of the 2e PHB was clearly a big step forward over the 1e AD&D books that looked like they came off a typewriter. The 2e book feels full color even if it doesn’t meet the industry definition.
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May 31, 2023 16:17
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Halloween Jack posted:The Japanese army also had a lot of outdated equipment, but as far as I know, they don't have the same reputation as the Italians. Because they initially did very well, I guess. They were mostly fighting against the Chinese, who had even worse equipment, or in jungle terrain where tanks don't do well anyway, against whatever third tier stuff Britain could scrounge up while also fighting the Nazis. They just didn't need good, modern tanks that much. Until the Soviet Union invaded Manchuria in 1945 with frigging IS-2s and suchlike of course and they promptly got absolutely rolled.
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May 31, 2023 16:20
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feedmegin posted:Until the Soviet Union invaded Manchuria in 1945 with frigging IS-2s and suchlike of course and they promptly got absolutely rolled. My grandfather was an army Sherman crewman in the Pacific. He was in for the entire war, and never saw a single Japanese tank.
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May 31, 2023 16:47
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Pretty famously the Japanese started out strong on the Pacific theatre that was almost entirely air and sea based, but weren't able to keep up technologically with the USA. And again, yeah, most of their initial opposition was even more poorly equipped and unprepared compared to the industrial situation in Europe. Otherwise just not really a comparable situation at least on popular visualisation.
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May 31, 2023 17:20
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Nessus posted:This was coming up in the White Wolf games thread. When, and if y'all know, why, did it kind of seem to get decided at some point that physical books need to be hardcover with full color art? 3rd edition D&D is probably your best bet. My theory on this is you can date it from Privateer Press entering the market. 2003 or so. 1st Ed Warmachine and the Iron Kingdoms sourcebooks were a big step forward in production values for a third-party company. The Warmachine corebook was full-art B&W with colour inserts, and the follow-up sourcebooks were full colour. They were playing at GW's level, and GW responded by quickly going to full-colour hardcover themselves in 4th edition 40K after the Big Black Book in 3rd. It proliferated from there. Loxbourne fucked around with this message at 17:52 on May 31, 2023 |
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May 31, 2023 17:43
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Underground was the first core rulebook, but I don't think it was a hardback. Changeling the Dreaming revised would have been the first hardback with full color that I can think of, or maybe 2nd ed West End Star Wars.
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May 31, 2023 19:50
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Critical Role did a one-shot Tears of the Kingdom game session sponsored directly by Nintendo: https://twitter.com/CriticalRole/status/1663621298843684864 I'm not bringing this up to argue about whether or not CritRole should be taking that money, but I do wonder what it means when Nintendo starts leveraging TTRPG content creators to promote their IPs. Possibly doing an interest check ahead of exploring more tabletop gaming licensing? (But oh god I dread the idea of an Official Nintendo TTRPG game rolling out given how they protect their IPs the way an enraged swan protects its pond.)
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May 31, 2023 19:52
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How serious of gamers are CritRoll, and is there a greater than 0% chance one of them just begins attacking the first Cucco they run into?
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May 31, 2023 19:57
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is there like a real reason to dislike critical role because they've always been in my "they're bad for some reason" books but I can't remember why.
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May 31, 2023 19:58
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Shadowrun 1e had color plates in 1989; I think it was softcover.
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May 31, 2023 19:59
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Impermanent posted:is there like a real reason to dislike critical role because they've always been in my "they're bad for some reason" books but I can't remember why. It's a small group that transitioned into a successful corporation and they've had situations of taking money for questionable sponsored sources before (Wendy's, their animated series on Amazon, etc.) Aside from the issues that spawn there, the fandom is just parasocially grating in the same way Homestuck was at its peak, but how much you tolerate that varies. I didn't really want to get into that stuff again because I think it's a bigger deal if Nintendo of America is probing the tabletop space overall.
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May 31, 2023 20:03
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Nuns with Guns posted:Critical Role did a one-shot Tears of the Kingdom game session sponsored directly by Nintendo: I always though a Zelda minis game would be fun. Gorons, Zoras, Rito etc there's a lot to work with there
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May 31, 2023 20:30
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Nuns with Guns posted:Critical Role did a one-shot Tears of the Kingdom game session sponsored directly by Nintendo: I assume this was using 5e D&D?
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May 31, 2023 20:37
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DalaranJ posted:I assume this was using 5e D&D? It was using a PBtA hack designed by Nintendo Treehouse.
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May 31, 2023 20:56
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Impermanent posted:is there like a real reason to dislike critical role because they've always been in my "they're bad for some reason" books but I can't remember why. People are really mad they play D&D and not a "real" TTRPG, in many cases. Personally I think they are fine, but I have not really engaged with the brand other than listening too a few hours of the podcast ages ago and some of the comics. Having your play group mainly be professional voice actors kicks rear end for making a good product, who knew.
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May 31, 2023 21:03
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It’s that they have the same effect as porn. They give people unrealistic expectations. Then when those people try the real thing, they’re disappointed, blame the other people involved for not trying hard enough, then potentially fall into despair and double down on consumption of the fake. Plus, they attribute the differences to personal qualities like “oh well we’re all really talented voice actors and you’re not” (they don’t literally put it that way of course, but that’s the implication) Rather than mentioning that there are also intrinsic differences in the activity, like “and also we all already know the main beats of each session in advance because our focus isn’t us enjoying the game but the viewers doing so”.
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May 31, 2023 21:29
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for the most part Critical Role is just kinda fine. They haven't done anything aggressively bad but they're also not particularly aggressive in using the power they have for good. Their community is... irritating. I also don't watch CR because 4+ hours of D&D every week is waaaay too much. Dimension 20 is half that and I barely keep up with their show. hyphz posted:It’s that they have the same effect as porn. They give people unrealistic expectations. Then when those people try the real thing, they’re disappointed, blame the other people involved for not trying hard enough, then potentially fall into despair and double down on consumption of the fake. and then there's this take. what in the nine hells...
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May 31, 2023 21:36
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My expectations for my D&D games are much, much higher than what I've seen from Critical Role
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May 31, 2023 21:37
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Randalor posted:How serious of gamers are CritRoll, and is there a greater than 0% chance one of them just begins attacking the first Cucco they run into? there is approximately a 99% chance one of them will attack a Cucco. Like, they're deathly serious at times but also complete shitheels at others.
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May 31, 2023 21:43
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Kurieg posted:there is approximately a 99% chance one of them will attack a Cucco. so, an average RPG player?
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May 31, 2023 21:46
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admanb posted:It was using a PBtA hack designed by Nintendo Treehouse. Yeah, if you gave me like three hours' preptime to do a Zelda thing for a con slot, I'd absolutely start from Inverse World. If it was explicitly about Tears of the Kingdom I'd give everybody their pick and mix of race/book/rune, except if somebody's the Golem they're a Zonai construct with Fuse.
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May 31, 2023 21:48
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hyphz posted:It’s that they have the same effect as porn. They give people unrealistic expectations. Then when those people try the real thing, they’re disappointed, blame the other people involved for not trying hard enough, then potentially fall into despair and double down on consumption of the fake. I can't believe there are still people who believe this. You're the same idiot who said "Look their company has a creative director! That means the game is scripted!" aren't you?
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May 31, 2023 21:52
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Why wouldn't you give an outline of plot beats to people doing a live performance?
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