USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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Bird in a Blender: Nov 17, 2005; It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.

Randalor posted:

Do strikes just magically pop out of the ether in the US? I thought that unions normally had to give notice of a strike to the company stating the date and time that the union is striking.

The company and the drivers likely both knew that a strike was going to happen that day. There really is a question of why the drivers even showed up to start working, and why the company even planned to make deliveries that day if both knew a strike was imminent. Not really enough detail in that article to know that. Maybe the company figured the drivers would just start their strike after making their deliveries, could be the drivers did this intentionally so they could ruin as much concrete as possible.

This ruling is just telling the lower court they needs to actually continue the case. This decision is because a Washington court dismissed the lawsuit. There is no guarantee that the company is even going to win their case.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:46

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:39

BonoMan: Feb 20, 2002; Jade Ear Joe

Quixotic1 posted:

I've noticed a lot more cars using the turning lanes to bypass all the cars going straight when at a red light.

We were just having this "what the hell is happening with drivers?!?!" conversation at lunch. It seems nuts lately.

And to your point, the other day I was taking my two kids home from school, went to turn into the turning lane when I noticed a car in the oncoming fast lane bolted into it to use it as a passing lane. A second or two later on my part and I would have probably had a head on collision.

I posted my dash cam to Nextdoor and they had a field day with it.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:49

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

An important context here is that this ruling is for whether the suit can go forward, not whether it succeeds. It assumes everything happened exactly as Glacier claimed.

So some of the defenses people are bringing up are still relevant for the trial itself.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:54

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

I think there's a major illness that is harming people's entire bodies with tiny sharp proteins. It's affecting people's brains lungs and hearts and that all will impact the driving

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:54

Shooting Blanks: Jun 6, 2007; Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade

Zotix posted:

Question, has there been some directive to stop routine traffic enforcement in the past few years(COVID timeframe)? I've lived in several places and aside from highway patrol on interstates I just don't see police pulling people over for traffic infractions. I've also seen the quality of driving decline as a result. Almost every light has 1 ow 2 cars now sneaking through the red as the light changed from yellow. I've also seen more egregious blowing through solid reds or stop signs much more frequently than I ever had before. And I look around and just don't see police pulling cars over like pre COVID.

It isn't a directive, so much as a combination of severe underemployment at law enforcement agencies and plenty of cops just not caring any more ever since the various BLM/anti-LEO/defund protests. Compounding this is the fact that a lot of individual drivers got demonstrably worse during the early days of COVID when not only did enforcement drop to zero, but so did traffic with people transitioning to WFH and simply not going out as often for errands/entertainment/etc. Seriously, mid-late 2020 could be a terrifying time to be on the roads, a lot of people became convinced that they were safe drivers at 100mph+ rather than 80mph.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:56

yronic heroism: Oct 31, 2008

Zotix posted:

Question, has there been some directive to stop routine traffic enforcement in the past few years(COVID timeframe)? I've lived in several places and aside from highway patrol on interstates I just don't see police pulling people over for traffic infractions. I've also seen the quality of driving decline as a result. Almost every light has 1 ow 2 cars now sneaking through the red as the light changed from yellow. I've also seen more egregious blowing through solid reds or stop signs much more frequently than I ever had before. And I look around and just don't see police pulling cars over like pre COVID.

Discussed here: https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1167980495/americas-roads-are-more-dangerous-as-police-pull-over-fewer-drivers

Some jurisdictions do have traffic stops that are way down and some have adopted policies to reduce stops.

Also a lot of the excessive speeds and bad driving is believed to have started with pandemic era driving habits that started when the roads were less busy.

https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/pandemic-lockdowns-made-rush-hour-speeding-risky-driving-the-new-normal

# ? Jun 1, 2023 18:59

Edgar Allen Ho: Apr 3, 2017; by sebmojo

cat botherer posted:

edit: I made a dumb post

Btw read your post and is it genocidal if I�m personal friends with russian soldiers who were ordered to kill ukrainian civilians for crimes such as �speaking ukrainian�, �a tattoo of Goku-western sympathies�, or �high school boy whose kia dad was in the Ukrainian Army�

Would you change your mind on the genocide if it was the US Army doing it? Would you change your mind if it was the US funneling the poor and minorities into the meat grinder for the rich? Yeah you prolly would

US bad, Russia bad, US-Russia defectors lmao may they rot in hell

E: and to clarify, I�m the one cousin in my family that wasn�t in the US or french military- bad as those are, none ever got direct orders to commit murder

Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 1, 2023

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:00

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Btw read your post and is it genocidal if I�m personal friends with russian soldiers who were ordered to kill ukrainian civilians for crimes such as �speaking ukrainian�, �a tattoo of Goku-western sympathies�, or �high school boy whose kia dad was in the Ukrainian Army�

Would you change your mind on the genocide if it was the US Army doing it? Would you change your mind if it was the US funneling the poor and minorities into the meat grinder for the rich? Yeah you prolly would

No I wouldn't. Capitalism is bad and the things that are going on the US are horrific, but it is not a genocide either. Capital and the US govt need their underclass, it makes no sense to genocide them.

quote:

US bad, Russia bad, US-Russia defectors lmao may they rot in hell

US and Russia both do monstrous evil. I wish Putin were dead, etc, etc, but I really bristle at the idea that Russia is some kind of unique evil. Russia is currently doing more foreign harm than the US, but we literally did our own unjust invasion of Iraq 20 years ago that at this point still has killed a lot more people that U/R. The US has droned weddings, etc, with knowledge they were full of civilian noncombatants. Both countries are late-stage capitalist shitholes, and Russia is much more like the US than many care to admit. I don't like either government.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:11

Mellow Seas: Oct 9, 2012; Can't post for 10 years!

Harold Fjord posted:

I think there's a major illness that is harming people's entire bodies with tiny sharp proteins. It's affecting people's brains lungs and hearts and that all will impact the driving

This cannot fully explain an increase in traffic deaths that began in 2015.

As for specifically post-pandemic increases, I would cite, more than viral effects, people�s experience of driving on, basically, free and open and lawless roads in 2020, and getting used to those habits. Then traffic volumes rebounded, but enforcement was never there to get those people to rein it back in.

I also think we�re all kind of desensitized to death in general from where we were four years ago so �you might die or kill someone� isn�t as compelling of an argument for safe driving to a lot of people as it used to be.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:27

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

I agree that "impacting" is not "fully explaining"

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:31

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Mellow Seas posted:

This cannot fully explain an increase in traffic deaths that began in 2015.

As for specifically post-pandemic increases, I would cite, more than viral effects, people�s experience of driving on, basically, free and open and lawless roads in 2020, and getting used to those habits. Then traffic volumes rebounded, but enforcement was never there to get those people to rein it back in.

I also think we�re all kind of desensitized to death in general from where we were four years ago so �you might die or kill someone� isn�t a compelling to a lot of people as it used to be.

The post-2015 increase may have a lot to do with smartphones.

e.g. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-autos-deaths-idINKBN0TD2KP20151124

I do see at least 15% or so of drivers loving with their phone at any given time. It's worse than driving drunk when you're actively doing it.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:31

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Mellow Seas posted:

This cannot fully explain an increase in traffic deaths that began in 2015.

As for specifically post-pandemic increases, I would cite, more than viral effects, people�s experience of driving on, basically, free and open and lawless roads in 2020, and getting used to those habits. Then traffic volumes rebounded, but enforcement was never there to get those people to rein it back in.

I also think we�re all kind of desensitized to death in general from where we were four years ago so �you might die or kill someone� isn�t as compelling of an argument for safe driving to a lot of people as it used to be.

As a daily cyclist I see drivers looking down at their phones ALL THE TIME.

In December 2021 one of them sailed right thru a red light and t-boned my new-ish car (I wasn't hurt and the car was totally repaired). When I bike I'm always checking to see if drivers are actually stopping at a red light and every few weeks I catch one who isn't.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:36

Bird in a Blender: Nov 17, 2005; It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.

Mellow Seas posted:

This cannot fully explain an increase in traffic deaths that began in 2015.

As for specifically post-pandemic increases, I would cite, more than viral effects, people�s experience of driving on, basically, free and open and lawless roads in 2020, and getting used to those habits. Then traffic volumes rebounded, but enforcement was never there to get those people to rein it back in.

I also think we�re all kind of desensitized to death in general from where we were four years ago so �you might die or kill someone� isn�t as compelling of an argument for safe driving to a lot of people as it used to be.

There was a slight uptick in vehicle deaths from 2015-2017, but then it came back down again. We more or less had a plateau in deaths from 2009 to 2019, and then a big leap in 2020. The numbers below are deaths per million miles driven. There wasn't any real upward trend until the pandemic hit.

2007 1.36
2008 1.26
2009 1.14
2010 1.11
2011 1.10
2012 1.14
2013 1.10
2014 1.08
2015 1.15
2016 1.19
2017 1.17
2018 1.14
2019 1.11
2020 1.34
2021 1.37

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:37

Bellmaker: Oct 18, 2008; Chapter DOOF

Mellow Seas posted:

This cannot fully explain an increase in traffic deaths that began in 2015.

As for specifically post-pandemic increases, I would cite, more than viral effects, people�s experience of driving on, basically, free and open and lawless roads in 2020, and getting used to those habits. Then traffic volumes rebounded, but enforcement was never there to get those people to rein it back in.

I also think we�re all kind of desensitized to death in general from where we were four years ago so �you might die or kill someone� isn�t as compelling of an argument for safe driving to a lot of people as it used to be.

Part of why law enforcement was never there was because they�re all antimask/vaxx chuds that died of covid

# ? Jun 1, 2023 19:45

Fighting Trousers: May 17, 2011; Does this excite you, girl?

Mellow Seas posted:

This cannot fully explain an increase in traffic deaths that began in 2015.

As for specifically post-pandemic increases, I would cite, more than viral effects, people�s experience of driving on, basically, free and open and lawless roads in 2020, and getting used to those habits. Then traffic volumes rebounded, but enforcement was never there to get those people to rein it back in.

I also think we�re all kind of desensitized to death in general from where we were four years ago so �you might die or kill someone� isn�t as compelling of an argument for safe driving to a lot of people as it used to be.

As others have mentioned, smartphones definitely pay a part in this, but I would also suggest that the bevy of safety features added to cars over the last decade has led to driver complacency. Why should I watch my blindspot when my car says it'll do that for me? Why check my mirrors; the car will let me know if I need to pay attention. So people weave, they speed, and they don't notice other cars (especially if those other cars are smaller).

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:16

VideoGameVet: May 14, 2005; It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion. It is by the juice of Java that pedaling acquires speed, the teeth acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my bike in motion.

Fighting Trousers posted:

As others have mentioned, smartphones definitely pay a part in this, but I would also suggest that the bevy of safety features added to cars over the last decade has led to driver complacency. Why should I watch my blindspot when my car says it'll do that for me? Why check my mirrors; the car will let me know if I need to pay attention. So people weave, they speed, and they don't notice other cars (especially if those other cars are smaller).

Risk Compensation is a real thing.

You won't drive a '63 VW Microbus the same way you'll drive a new Volvo. :-)

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:21

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

Tell that to the drivers of the most dangerous car: a clapped-out nissan sentra.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:24

Captain_Maclaine: Sep 30, 2001; Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Meatball posted:

Within the next year, a company will sue a union and claim loss of income should count as damage. The Supreme court sides with them and now any strike, property damage or not, gets the union sued.

This is incidentally how, indirectly, part of how the British Labor Party came into existence. In 1900 the Taff Vale Railway sued the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants for lost income during a recent strike and won, which unsurprisingly made the practice commonplace. This caused the Trades Union Congress to ally with the existing Independent Labor Party to form the Labor Representation Committee, which then became just the Labor Party in 1906 and was key in heralding in the Trade Disputes Act of that same year, which revoked businesses' right to sue unions for lost income during industrial actions.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:28

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Jarmak posted:

An important context here is that this ruling is for whether the suit can go forward, not whether it succeeds. It assumes everything happened exactly as Glacier claimed.

So some of the defenses people are bringing up are still relevant for the trial itself.

It's a bad decision and terrible precedent op. And completely unacceptable that it was an 8-1 decision. Probably being done to hobble the burgeoning union movement currently happening in the US. It sucks, whether this particular lawsuit succeeds or not.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:33

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Professor Beetus posted:

It's a bad decision and terrible precedent op. And completely unacceptable that it was an 8-1 decision. Probably being done to hobble the burgeoning union movement currently happening in the US. It sucks, whether this particular lawsuit succeeds or not.

It�s 100% going to lead to all sorts of litigation against unions now

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:41

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

FlamingLiberal posted:

It�s 100% going to lead to all sorts of litigation against unions now

Yeah. Corporations have deeper pockets than unions. The mere threat of drawn-out litigation (even when the unions may be confident of ultimate success) could easily produce chilling effects on union decision-making, influencing them to not call strikes when the situation would otherwise demand it.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:48

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

A NYT study shows that older Millenials are actually getting more conservative as they age.

However, even as they age, Millennials are still much less conservative than previous generations and have shifted right at a smaller rate than previous generations as they age.

There isn't a 100% clear reason why they are getting more conservative as they get older or why they are not getting as conservative as previous generations. But, there are a couple areas that seem to be impacting both factors:

- Many voters who became politically active in 2004 were motivated to become Democrats by the Iraq war. As the Iraq war has faded from relevance, they have picked up other issues as their "main" political concerns.

- Younger white voters are more supportive of "colorblind messaging on race" that has recently become less popular in the Democratic party and has been a part of Republican messaging since the 90's.

- Some younger voters are more inclined to support Republicans because they view them as "anti-establishment" because the party has recently focused on being "un-PC" and taking stands against changing societal norms on race and gender that are now seen as "establishment" ideas.

The very abbreviated version that the NYT doesn't explicitly spell out seems to be that a lot of younger voters who identify as white (including many younger Hispanic voters) were against the Iraq war, but still find race-neutral/"anti-woke"/anti-PC/"don't talk about race" arguments appealing.

There may also be some truth to the "you get more conservative as you get older" concept, but many of these people who have "moved rightwards" seem to have held these views for a while, but they were secondary to big divisive issues like the Iraq war when they became politically involved.

Still, despite there being indications that they have gotten more conservative (in terms of voting patterns, but not necessarily in personal beliefs) they are also doing it at a much lower rate and starting from a much lower base level than previous generations. That seems to support the idea that there is actually a generational change and not a universal "you get more conservative as you get older" universal rule.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1664290721883406337

quote:

Millennials Are Not an Exception. They�ve Moved to the Right.

Fifteen years ago, a new generation of young voters propelled Barack Obama to a decisive victory that augured a new era of Democratic dominance.

Fifteen years later, those once young voters aren�t so young � and aren�t quite so Democratic.

In the 2020 presidential election, voters who were 18 to 29 in 2008 backed Joe Biden by 55 percent to 43 percent, according to our estimates, a margin roughly half that of Mr. Obama�s 12 years earlier.

The exit polls show it even closer, with Mr. Biden winning by just 51-45 among voters who were 18 to 27 in 2008 (exit polls report results among those 30 to 39, not 30 to 41 � the group that was 18 to 29 in 2008).

And last fall, the young voters of �08 � by then 32 to 43 � preferred Democratic congressional candidates by just 10 points in Times/Siena polling.

This shift toward the right among the young voters who propelled Mr. Obama to victory 15 years ago is part of a larger pattern: Over the last decade, almost every cohort of voters under 50 has shifted toward the right, based on an analysis of thousands of survey interviews archived at the Roper Center.

It�s not necessarily a stunning finding. Political folklore has long held that voters become more conservative as they get older. But it is nonetheless at odds with a wave of recent reports or studies suggesting otherwise. The Financial Times, for instance, wrote that �millennials are shattering the oldest rule in politics� by not moving to the right as they age. Similarly, the Democratic data firm Catalist found that Democrats essentially haven�t lost ground among millennials and Gen Z over the last decade. These findings have helped spark a new wave of speculation about whether the long-awaited era of Democratic dominance might this time really be at hand.

But a different story emerges by tracking the same cohort of voters over time, rather than a whole generation with changing composition. The millennials of 2008 are not the same as those of 2016, for instance: Six additional years of even more heavily Democratic millennials became eligible to vote after the 2008 election, canceling out the slight Republican shift among older millennials.

The shift to the right appears largest among the oldest �young� voters � the older millennials who came of age in a very different political era from today. Many of the issues that drew young voters to the Democrats in 2004 or 2008 � like the Iraq War or same-sex marriage � may no longer be issues at all. Republicans may have even reversed their former disadvantage on some issues, whether by sometimes opposing foreign intervention, winning some voters with colorblind messaging on race, or by becoming the �anti-establishment� party.

In contrast, the shift to the right is more modest among younger voters � especially those who came of age after Mr. Obama, in the era of Black Lives Matter, the Bernie Sanders campaign and Donald J. Trump. Today�s politics are still mostly defined by the same issues that brought these voters to the Democrats. As long as that�s true, they may well remain by their side.

It�s possible � even likely, if Mr. Trump is the nominee � that the 2024 presidential election will be fought over issues similar to those in recent elections. If so, it could prove to be like the 2012 presidential election, a fleeting moment of political stability that allowed incremental demographic and generational shifts to seem to carry the day. It just might not last for long.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 20:49

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Did they control for the higher likelihood of deaths from poverty among left wing youth? Because that's a known confounding factor.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:01

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

Well he doesn't have osteoperosis.

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1664346089317605406?s=20

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:08

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

But does he have tuberculosis?

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:11

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Did they control for the higher likelihood of deaths from poverty among left wing youth? Because that's a known confounding factor.

They did not, but you would need about 18% of all people under 30 who voted in 2008 to have died by 2020 for that to be the primary source of the change. Less than 1% of people aged 18 to 29 will die within 10 years (they don't have specific data for 12 years, but probably pretty close). So, it would seem to be a very small impact on overall voters.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:13

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

FlamingLiberal posted:

It’s 100% going to lead to all sorts of litigation against unions now

Feel like under this precedent, you could argue that police unions should be liable to the families of those murdered by police, because their actions directly lead to them being robbed of justice which would normally include monetary compensation. Something tells me this would end up 8-1 in the other way though.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:18

Seyser Koze: Dec 15, 2013; Mucho Mucho; Nap Ghost

Professor Beetus posted:

Feel like under this precedent, you could argue that police unions should be liable to the families of those murdered by police, because their actions directly lead to them being robbed of justice which would normally include monetary compensation. Something tells me this would end up 8-1 in the other way though.

Don�t be ridiculous, it�d be 9-0.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:22

Blind Pineapple: Oct 27, 2010; For The Perfect Fruit 'n' Kaman

1 part gin
1 part pomegranate syrup
Fill with pineapple juice
Serve over crushed ice; College Slice

Zotix posted:

Question, has there been some directive to stop routine traffic enforcement in the past few years(COVID timeframe)? I've lived in several places and aside from highway patrol on interstates I just don't see police pulling people over for traffic infractions. I've also seen the quality of driving decline as a result. Almost every light has 1 ow 2 cars now sneaking through the red as the light changed from yellow. I've also seen more egregious blowing through solid reds or stop signs much more frequently than I ever had before. And I look around and just don't see police pulling cars over like pre COVID.

There is one stretch of highway on my way to work where the local cops/sheriffs will speed trap regularly. There used to be a lot more, though.

I think the main driver is "no one wants to work anymore." For as much poo poo as cops rightfully get, it's a mediocre to bad paying job with lovely hours and a lot of perceived, if not occasionally real, danger. No surprise people have found more appealing options elsewhere. This unfortunately also has the terrible effect of police forces being mostly or entirely filled by people who view the power of being a cop as the primary compensation, and we all know what kind of people police jobs attract to begin with.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:38

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Blind Pineapple posted:

There is one stretch of highway on my way to work where the local cops/sheriffs will speed trap regularly. There used to be a lot more, though.

I think the main driver is "no one wants to work anymore." For as much poo poo as cops rightfully get, it's a mediocre to bad paying job with lovely hours and a lot of perceived, if not occasionally real, danger. No surprise people have found more appealing options elsewhere. This unfortunately also has the terrible effect of police forces being mostly or entirely filled by people who view the power of being a cop as the primary compensation, and we all know what kind of people police jobs attract to begin with.

In many places cops make 2-3x as much as comparable government workers, and get lots of "overtime," occasionally they even get to earn it by protecting fascists at demonstrations.

Also annual average salary for the US is between 58-67000 a year, cops get plenty of compensation commensurate to their stated responsibilities.

Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jun 1, 2023

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:41

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

A NYT study shows that older Millenials are actually getting more conservative as they age.

However, even as they age, Millennials are still much less conservative than previous generations and have shifted right at a smaller rate than previous generations as they age.

There isn't a 100% clear reason why they are getting more conservative as they get older or why they are not getting as conservative as previous generations. But, there are a couple areas that seem to be impacting both factors:

- Many voters who became politically active in 2004 were motivated to become Democrats by the Iraq war. As the Iraq war has faded from relevance, they have picked up other issues as their "main" political concerns.

- Younger white voters are more supportive of "colorblind messaging on race" that has recently become less popular in the Democratic party and has been a part of Republican messaging since the 90's.

- Some younger voters are more inclined to support Republicans because they view them as "anti-establishment" because the party has recently focused on being "un-PC" and taking stands against changing societal norms on race and gender that are now seen as "establishment" ideas.

The very abbreviated version that the NYT doesn't explicitly spell out seems to be that a lot of younger voters who identify as white (including many younger Hispanic voters) were against the Iraq war, but still find race-neutral/"anti-woke"/anti-PC/"don't talk about race" arguments appealing.

There may also be some truth to the "you get more conservative as you get older" concept, but many of these people who have "moved rightwards" seem to have held these views for a while, but they were secondary to big divisive issues like the Iraq war when they became politically involved.

Still, despite there being indications that they have gotten more conservative (in terms of voting patterns, but not necessarily in personal beliefs) they are also doing it at a much lower rate and starting from a much lower base level than previous generations. That seems to support the idea that there is actually a generational change and not a universal "you get more conservative as you get older" universal rule.

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1664290721883406337

Is there an actual link to the study?

Because the article seems to be saying that they exclusively looked at presidential election polling data and didn't look any earlier than 2004. If that's actually the case, then this study isn't worth wiping my rear end with, because "Obama won millennials by a higher margin than Biden did" does not necessarily lead to the conclusion "therefore millennials have moved right politically".

If they have any data from non-presidential elections, or maybe some issue polling, or something like that, I'd love to see it. But the article only mentions presidential results. And if that's all they've got, then their conclusion is so massive a stretch that it's probably not worth taking seriously.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:44

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

It's also going to naturally happen to some extent because society is in a constant state of change. There's probably a parallel universe where I'm way more of an rear end in a top hat and annoyed that calling people fa**ot or re*rd isn't socially acceptable anymore, and I'm sure there are plenty of people my age who do.

Zoomers will have their own weird poo poo when they start pushing 40 too.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:47

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

Blind Pineapple posted:

There is one stretch of highway on my way to work where the local cops/sheriffs will speed trap regularly. There used to be a lot more, though.

I think the main driver is "no one wants to work anymore." For as much poo poo as cops rightfully get, it's a mediocre to bad paying job with lovely hours and a lot of perceived, if not occasionally real, danger. No surprise people have found more appealing options elsewhere. This unfortunately also has the terrible effect of police forces being mostly or entirely filled by people who view the power of being a cop as the primary compensation, and we all know what kind of people police jobs attract to begin with.

At least in my state and by my observation, highway patrol still pull over people about as much as before. However, their only mandate is to patrol, uh, highways. They don't clear out homeless camps or arrest protestors.

I have noticed a massive drop in county and city traffic enforcement. Coincidentally, city cops and sheriff deputies do clear out homeless camps and arrest protestors on a regular basis.

Professor Beetus posted:

In many places cops make 2-3x as much as comparable government workers, and get lots of "overtime," occasionally they even get to earn it by protecting fascists at demonstrations.

Yeah cops are not underpaid. Being the guard dogs of capital has its benefits. I took my dog for a walk yesterday and wound up walking past a number of city workers throwing some homeless people's posessions in a dump truck, and six cops in their cars looking at their phones, just in case one of the scary homeless gets pissed off. All of that cost well over a thousand dollars an hour, but at least it went to tormenting the most powerless, and not towards helping them or something stupid. Yes I live in a Democrat-controlled city, why do you ask?

cat botherer fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jun 1, 2023

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:50

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

Professor Beetus posted:

It's a bad decision and terrible precedent op. And completely unacceptable that it was an 8-1 decision. Probably being done to hobble the burgeoning union movement currently happening in the US. It sucks, whether this particular lawsuit succeeds or not.

The decision seems exceedingly correct and directly in line with previous precedent, which is why it's a lopsided 8-1.

Deliberately sabotaging equipment has never been protected activity under the NLRB. Honest question: did you actually read the ruling or did you read the top line and react to what you imagine the reasoning to be?

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# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:55

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

cat botherer posted:

Yeah cops are not underpaid. Being the guard dogs of capital has its benefits. I took my dog for a walk yesterday and wound up walking past a number of city workers throwing some homeless people's posessions in a dump truck, and six cops in their cars looking at their phones, just in case one of the scary homeless gets pissed off. All of that cost well over a thousand dollars an hour, but at least it went to tormenting the most powerless, and not towards helping them or something stupid. Yes I live in a Democrat-controlled city, why do you ask?

Cops are the highest paid public employees in most cities.

Not LA though....because DWP lol

For funsies here's the LA city payroll

https://lacity-2.payroll.socrata.com/#!/year/2022/

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:55

Killer robot: Sep 6, 2010; I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!; Pillbug

Professor Beetus posted:

In many places cops make 2-3x as much as comparable government workers, and get lots of "overtime," occasionally they even get to earn it by protecting fascists at demonstrations.

Also annual average salary for the US is between 58-67000 a year, cops get plenty of compensation commensurate to their stated responsibilities.

Reminded of a couple years back when it turned out that the Seattle PD had literally hundreds of people pulling over $200k/yr.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:56

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Main Paineframe posted:

Is there an actual link to the study?

Because the article seems to be saying that they exclusively looked at presidential election polling data and didn't look any earlier than 2004. If that's actually the case, then this study isn't worth wiping my rear end with, because "Obama won millennials by a higher margin than Biden did" does not necessarily lead to the conclusion "therefore millennials have moved right politically".

If they have any data from non-presidential elections, or maybe some issue polling, or something like that, I'd love to see it. But the article only mentions presidential results. And if that's all they've got, then their conclusion is so massive a stretch that it's probably not worth taking seriously.

It's compared to data from a study by the Roper Group, but the actual study appears to be behind a paywall.

quote:

based on an analysis of thousands of survey interviews archived at the Roper Center.

This is the link in the NYT article, but it just goes to the main page:

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/

# ? Jun 1, 2023 21:58

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Jarmak posted:

The decision seems exceedingly correct and directly in line with previous precedent, which is why it's a lopsided 8-1.

Deliberately sabotaging equipment has never been protected activity under the NLRB. Honest question: did you actually read the ruling or did you read the top line and react to what you imagine the reasoning to be?

Yeah man, the stated opinions of the supreme court are sacrosanct and unquestionable, and there aren't mountains of evidence suggesting that the court is largely making ideologically charged decisions that may or may not be influenced by outright bribery.

In addition, the case is flimsy enough on its own merits that the WA supreme court was right to throw it out and it should never have even gotten up to the US supreme court.

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# ? Jun 1, 2023 22:08

UKJeff: May 17, 2023; by vyelkin

Blind Pineapple posted:

There is one stretch of highway on my way to work where the local cops/sheriffs will speed trap regularly. There used to be a lot more, though.

I think the main driver is "no one wants to work anymore." For as much poo poo as cops rightfully get, it's a mediocre to bad paying job with lovely hours and a lot of perceived, if not occasionally real, danger. No surprise people have found more appealing options elsewhere. This unfortunately also has the terrible effect of police forces being mostly or entirely filled by people who view the power of being a cop as the primary compensation, and we all know what kind of people police jobs attract to begin with.

Not to pile on, but being law enforcement seems like a sweet gig aside from, you know, having to be law enforcement.

In my city they make $72k after 18 months, full pension after twenty years (and this can be gamed to end up with a huge annual pension), good benefits, strong union�in fact, maybe the only American union with any teeth left, you and your family will never get a traffic violation ever again, you can get hired out as private security and make $$$, plenty of overtime available, you have to MAJORLY gently caress up to face any serious consequences, you�re protected from personal liability in nearly all cases, etc etc

Politicians and wealthy people rely on police to protect them from the unwashed masses so they�ll never see budget cuts. Even as other department budgets get slashed to the bone, the police departments see their budgets increase year after year.

If you are not especially talented and don�t have negative feelings about the police, I�d say it�s the best job you can get.

# ? Jun 1, 2023 22:30

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:39

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

Professor Beetus posted:

Yeah man, the stated opinions of the supreme court are sacrosanct and unquestionable, and there aren't mountains of evidence suggesting that the court is largely making ideologically charged decisions that may or may not be influenced by outright bribery.

In addition, the case is flimsy enough on its own merits that the WA supreme court was right to throw it out and it should never have even gotten up to the US supreme court.

There's mountains of evidence the court is making ideological decisions with super-majorities that include both sides of the ideological spectrum of the court? Do you have any actual arguments to make why the decision is wrong, the precedent is wrong, or even why the decision is bad public policy?

# ? Jun 1, 2023 22:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2023: Please let them shove a camera up your butt

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