(Thread IKs:
Stereotype)
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Rime posted:And
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Jun 1, 2023 16:05
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| # ? May 26, 2024 15:30 |
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Engorged Pedipalps posted:Uhh so what does this mean? This seems contrary to what we're trying to accomplish with emissions reduction and seems counterintuitive if emissions are the cause of global temperature rising Anything except controlled degrowth is going to be extremely painful. The one conceivably reasonable use for stratospheric aerosol injection is as a way to cover our retreat as we rapidly draw down emissions, but we won't do that. Climate change is the result of a massive, unplanned, uncontrolled experiment in geoengineering that we're only vaguely beginning to understand. Any effort to regulate the problem away or keep doing what we're doing but "cleaner" is almost certainly going to have unintended consequences and just ultimately make things worse. edit- to be clear, temperatures going up in response to reducing emissions isn't at all unexpected or something that we didn't know about. it's just one more bit of pain that we've locked ourselves into because we're a bunch of addicts.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:10
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Engorged Pedipalps posted:Uhh so what does this mean? This seems contrary to what we're trying to accomplish with emissions reduction and seems counterintuitive if emissions are the cause of global temperature rising not sure but what i think what the article is saying is The extinction of shortwave radiation by atmospheric aerosols reduces the surface-reaching solar radiation. The magnitude of this extinction is directly proportional to the columnar loading of aerosols and in turn, leads to a reduction in the longwave radiation emitted by the earth’s surface8. This results in the masking of global warming (reduction of total warming), thus contributing to net climate cooling. The magnitude of this aerosol-induced cooling effect remains highly uncertain due to the complexity of the composition and lifecycles of aerosols8. Climate change mitigation policies, naturally targeting emis- sions of longer-lived greenhouse gases (CO2, CH4 and N2O), will also decrease co-emitted “climate cooling” aerosols, which are much more shorter-lived and thus will decrease more quickly9. This consequence of mitigation—demasking the aerosol cooling, will lead to net climate warming and thus inadvertently counter- ing the intended impact—has so far received little attention in the climate policy arena. Such warming and changes in the earth’s radiative budget would have many severe effects, including disturbance to global biogeochemical cycles. In this context, the observational quantification of aerosol demasking is equally desired by both policymakers and scientists
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Jun 1, 2023 16:10
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Engorged Pedipalps posted:Uhh so what does this mean? This seems contrary to what we're trying to accomplish with emissions reduction and seems counterintuitive if emissions are the cause of global temperature rising as you burn fossil fuels you get greenhouse gases that retain more heat in the lower atmosphere, and small particles that block sunlight from reaching the earth surface GHG effects remain for a long time, while the particles are removed from the atmosphere via deposition and rain within a few years at most burning increasing amounts of fossil fuels leads to a higher true average surface temperature but also increasing amounts of particles masking the true amount of warming stop burning fossil fuels, the higher temperature remains but the particles are removed quickly, leading to rapid "extra" warming that was baked into the system
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Jun 1, 2023 16:15
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Paradoxish posted:Anything except controlled degrowth is going to be extremely painful. The one conceivably reasonable use for stratospheric aerosol injection is as a way to cover our retreat as we rapidly draw down emissions, but we won't do that. this is Malthusianism. this is genocide. this is doomerism.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:17
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Can you dig a hole so deep that you can't get out? Yes. Yes you can.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:18
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kyojin posted:Can you dig a hole so deep that you can't get out? Yes. Yes you can.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:29
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Cold on a Cob posted:
sad posters: "c-spam doomers, seriously - please stop pissing in the dome"
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Jun 1, 2023 16:33
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Griz posted:you also have to pay an electrician to set up a 240v dedicated circuit if you want reasonable charging times. using a regular outlet takes 2 days to go from 0 to 80% do you normally burn 1/3 of a tank of gas every day? I gas up once a month, if I had a way to overnight charge a normal outlet seems perfectly acceptable. I could always just use a charging station for the rare instances where I need a top off. seems like a non issue compared to actually having a spot that you can overnight charge at.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:41
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freezepops posted:do you normally burn 1/3 of a tank of gas every day? What’s the point of owning a car if you’re not driving 100 miles a day just to avoid being at home??? (It is legit funny how many dudes you can find just hanging out at the Tesla chargers not even charging, just like watching TV away from home.)
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Jun 1, 2023 16:43
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Soggy Muffin posted:https://twitter.com/edgarrmcgregor/status/1663778671809925122?s=20 Just a Moron posted:I don't know how to tell you this Edgar, but no one gives a gently caress about 0.4 degrees F lmao Ain't nobody got nothing to say about a .4-degree day. .5 bring a smile to your face. .6 poo poo, niggas is drat near barbecuing on that motherfucker. Go down to .2, niggas get their bitch on. Get their blood complaining. But .4? Nobody give a gently caress about .4. Nobody remember .4, and y'all niggas is giving me way too many .4-degree days! What the gently caress!
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Jun 1, 2023 16:52
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freezepops posted:do you normally burn 1/3 of a tank of gas every day? In my experience, people have a huuuuuuuge amount of anxiety over not being able to top their EVs up at least once or twice per week. Range anxiety in general is a tough nut to crack. I know someone who gave up their Leaf after a couple of years specifically because they were freaked out at not being able to quickly charge up and get full range. As far as I know it was never even an actual issue for them, just the possibility freaked them out so much that they couldn't deal with it anymore after owning the car for 2+ years.
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Jun 1, 2023 16:53
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bedpan posted:
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Jun 1, 2023 17:08
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lmao doomers that’s just the surface temperature! there could be limitless cold water right under there!
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Jun 1, 2023 17:15
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what if we put billions of floating solar panels attached to a 100m long pvc pipes going straight down just perpetually running a pump
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Jun 1, 2023 17:28
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MightyBigMinus posted:what if we put billions of floating solar panels attached to a 100m long pvc pipes going straight down just perpetually running a pump include AI somehow and youll be rich
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Jun 1, 2023 17:30
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If the trend continues that as women are given the tools to family plan and education birth rates go down - is that still doing a genocide? I have to admit I dont totally understand ~ the rules ~ We should stop making everyones shiny plastic toys and cars tho. ill cop to wanting whatever that is to happen.
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Jun 1, 2023 17:38
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there is nothing more genocidal and malthusian than giving women a say in how their uterus is utilized and you should be ashamed for even considering it
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Jun 1, 2023 17:47
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Having babies is a biological imperative, you can't not do it!
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Jun 1, 2023 17:54
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Just a Moron posted:Having babies is a biological imperative, you can't not do it! Ah gently caress I guess im just broken. Ok then.
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Jun 1, 2023 17:56
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aside from the fact that just making less poo poo and having less people going forward would do nothing to fend off whatever changes are already baked in, the fact is that even wealthier people in the western world consider having children to be a sort of personal decision based in self-fulfillment.
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Jun 1, 2023 18:06
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bawfuls posted:I bet the pore size tolerance for the effect is pretty narrow too, which would make mass production even harder Still a wildly delicate material that would be very difficult to mass produce though. 100nm is so godamn small.
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Jun 1, 2023 18:08
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cash crab posted:aside from the fact that just making less poo poo and having less people going forward would do nothing to fend off whatever changes are already baked in, the fact is that even wealthier people in the western world consider having children to be a sort of personal decision based in self-fulfillment. Sure poo poo is baked in but like idk I still do have an idiotic glimmer of "we could still maybe turn the ship around before like 99% of us are dead"
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Jun 1, 2023 18:11
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The only self-limiting factor for climate change is the total collapse of industrial civilization, so there's plenty of room to make things less bad.
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Jun 1, 2023 18:17
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silicone thrills posted:Sure poo poo is baked in but like idk I still do have an idiotic glimmer of "we could still maybe turn the ship around before like 99% of us are dead" an extreme, global effort involving every single person on earth who will from this day forward go with a significantly less than they had before and a complete rework of our economy, lifestyles, and personal values would help to reduce suffering for people living 100 years from now, but it would do gently caress all for us because what's happening to us is mostly baked in from the last fifty years. the milk is spilled. moreover, there is a super tiny minority of rich people who could not conceive of a life absent of things you can't even imagine. the reason WFH is under fire is because a poo poo ton of rich people own office buildings and they lose investments if those things close, and they would have to go without a second megayacht. the reason people are bargaining for our future with the ways we consume things is because the people who produce the things we consume stand to lose a lot of money and we're not going to stop. green shopping is so popular because it gives you the illusion of "doing something" while doing nothing to reduce the amount of poo poo you're actually consuming. and even if you stopped consuming everything except for the actual bare minimum, and everyone around you did too, it would not stop what's happening right now.
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Jun 1, 2023 18:21
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oh, and because we are completely tied to capitalist ideology, let's say you close a factory that makes something frivolous, like baby toys or something. lets say this has any impact on the environment, even a little, which is better than nothing. thousands of people are out of the job now, and because we have a system where we fine people for wanting to sleep on a dry surface (rent) and we are incapable of distributing anything to people who we don't feel is deserving of it, those people are going to starve and die of exposure. you do this with every single frivolous industrial sector and billions of people suddenly don't have the money to access food and shelter, since all our food and shelter is owned by someone, perversely. and they will not get it for free.
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Jun 1, 2023 18:26
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Yeah but any human force powerful enough to close a factory against capital's wishes can probably give those jobless some food
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Jun 1, 2023 18:41
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cash crab posted:an extreme, global effort involving every single person on earth who will from this day forward go with a significantly less than they had before and a complete rework of our economy, lifestyles, and personal values would help to reduce suffering for people living 100 years from now, but it would do gently caress all for us because what's happening to us is mostly baked in from the last fifty years. the milk is spilled. An extreme, global effort involving every single person on earth completely reworking our economy, lifestyles, and personal values would be less likely to respond to the next 50 years of ecological collapse with war and genocide. Not super relevant though because as you say, we're fatally wedded to capitalism anyway. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if over the next 50 years we see at least as many deaths from "indirect" consequences of ecological collapse (war and genocide) as we see from direct consequences (drought, famine, flood, wet-bulb events, hurricanes etc).
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Jun 1, 2023 18:41
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Soggy Muffin posted:https://twitter.com/edgarrmcgregor/status/1663778671809925122?s=20 To help grasp the scale of this, using 4.18 J/g*C heat capacity and 1.35*1018 metric tons of ocean, this works out to about 1.25*1024 J or 300 teratons of TNT or about 6 million Tsar Bomba detonations.
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Jun 1, 2023 18:45
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bawfuls posted:No argument in terms of the direct climate consequences on our lives, but in this wildly extreme hypothetical the social and political consequences on our lives would surely be changed. yeah, exactly. someone correct me if i'm being a doomer here, but even right now we seem to be seeing society break down in certain ways as a response to worsening material conditions. people are going to react super poorly to an increase in that. a worsening climate is going to cause a big pingback in infighting and a further erosion of social cohesiveness and some people are not going to make the connection.
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Jun 1, 2023 18:50
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silicone thrills posted:If the trend continues that as women are given the tools to family plan and education birth rates go down - is that still doing a genocide? I have to admit I dont totally understand ~ the rules ~ Anything that implies this is not the best of all possible worlds and that North Americans are not perfect blameless innocents is genocide.
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Jun 1, 2023 18:54
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Figuring out that 6 million Tsar Bombas evenly distributed on the surface of the earth would be 1 bomb per 33 square miles, seeing that the bomb obliterated every building within 34 miles and did severe damage to buildings within 100 miles, and belting out a hearty joker laugh.
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Jun 1, 2023 19:00
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Stereotype posted:imagine how sad it’ll be when every living thing on earth dies when the biosphere collapse really starts to accelerate and we turn the planet into Venus. way sadder As sad as a McDonald's on alpha centari?
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Jun 1, 2023 19:04
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cash crab posted:yeah, exactly. someone correct me if i'm being a doomer here, but even right now we seem to be seeing society break down in certain ways as a response to worsening material conditions. people are going to react super poorly to an increase in that. a worsening climate is going to cause a big pingback in infighting and a further erosion of social cohesiveness and some people are not going to make the connection.
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Jun 1, 2023 19:23
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bawfuls posted:I suspect there will come a point where the connection is impossible to miss, once climate refugees number in the hundreds of millions. There will always be reactionary justifications for murdering all these people of course. Eventually the right wing response will be that yes climate change is happening, it's already too late to stop, so we should fight and kill out-group people to secure as many dwindling resources for the in-group. this will also be the centrist position
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Jun 1, 2023 19:26
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Lmao if you think that isn't the position of the NA bourgeois already tbh
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Jun 1, 2023 19:27
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cash crab posted:an extreme, global effort involving every single person on earth who will from this day forward go with a significantly less than they had before and a complete rework of our economy, lifestyles, and personal values would help to reduce suffering for people living 100 years from now, but it would do gently caress all for us because what's happening to us is mostly baked in from the last fifty years. the milk is spilled. this is a failure both to understand the science of ghg induced warming, and a failure to empathize with the global south that will feel the impact of our sucess or failure in REAL TIME. year by year. every year. the marginal tens of thousands of people that die or dont will be because of the marginal gigatons we emitted over the course of the previous ~3 - 5. this is what being ignorant and overly catastrophizing is for. as an excuse to not just do nothing, but to loudly and ignorantly shout at people that might as a way to self-sooth. please stfu. the curve for the impact of methane is measureable in months. the curve for the impact of co2 is that about 80% of its effect occurs in the first 2 -3 years, 90+% of it by the 5th year, and then it tapers out and takes 10 years to get to 100%. that does mean that we have a cascade of baked in warming always folllowing behind us, but its only about 5 years worth. in any given year you can marginally increase or decrease the number of dead indians/africans in 5 years. we wont, but its a social problem not a physics problem. dont ever pretend the science is whats loving us. edit: a visual 
MightyBigMinus has issued a correction as of 19:37 on Jun 1, 2023 |
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Jun 1, 2023 19:29
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Stereotype posted:my dog died today and I’m sad about it, so I came to this thread to cheer myself up  I'm sorry for your loss. I treasure every moment with mine because I know the end is at best 10 years away.
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Jun 1, 2023 19:38
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Puppy Burner posted:Lmao if you think that isn't the position of the NA bourgeois already tbh
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Jun 1, 2023 19:39
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| # ? May 26, 2024 15:30 |
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I just want more Hubbert bdelloid pics, as long as the energy used in their production is esg compliant.
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Jun 1, 2023 19:50
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