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Whoops, misread that. I don't think Greg Bear was extremely online.
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Jun 3, 2023 15:54
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is there any writer/artist from that ‘90s/’00s period who deliberately cultivated a notable online following who didn’t turn out to be a predator? Gaiman?
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Jun 3, 2023 15:54
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is there any writer/artist from that ‘90s/’00s period who deliberately cultivated a notable online following who didn’t turn out to be a predator? Whedon is the big one, but even weirdo youtube people who are basically not notable tried to get in on that and ended up being rapists. Brandon Sanderson has also been pretty drama free, aside from his affiliation with the LDS. He’s one where I legitimately don’t think he’s going to abuse anyone. I hope not to be proven wrong. GRRM has written a lot of creepy incest / age / rape content, but I’ve also never heard anything bad about his fan interactions.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:20
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LASER BEAM DREAM posted:Brandon Sanderson has also been pretty drama free, aside from his affiliation with the LDS. He’s one where I legitimately don’t think he’s going to abuse anyone. I hope not to be proven wrong. A Goon noticed that during GRRM signings he would touch female presenting fans and not touch male presenting fans and tried to arrange his body in the same way as the women and GRRM refused to touch him. EDIT: please trust me and don't make me wander into the Book Barn GRRM thread to ask. I'm thousands of posts behind I can't not autistically read
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Jun 3, 2023 16:26
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LASER BEAM DREAM posted:Brandon Sanderson has also been pretty drama free, aside from his affiliation with the LDS. He’s one where I legitimately don’t think he’s going to abuse anyone. I hope not to be proven wrong. Hell Sanderson didn't even really lower himself to the level of that hit piece from a few months ago. Dude might be one of the good ones
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Jun 3, 2023 16:30
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GRRM also praised old white fascists and deliberately hosed up the pronunciation of modern diverse fantasy/sci-fi authors names.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:33
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Alaois posted:The behavior of Warren Ellis unfortunately has aged badly Is this the Warren Ellis that Nick Cave has made movies or soundtracks to movies with?
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Jun 3, 2023 16:35
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No, this other Warren Ellis has a massive folk-singer beard, not the Me-Too disgraced nerd beard.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:37
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I had an online buddy who got sucked into Warren Ellis's weird little online circle. As far as I know she still hangs out with that crowd. It felt off to me at the time.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:37
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HopperUK posted:I had an online buddy who got sucked into Warren Ellis's weird little online circle. As far as I know she still hangs out with that crowd. It felt off to me at the time. He used to? have a forum that went along with his blog and it was super insular and weird. Like you could interact with some really creative people but god help you if you fall out of line and make a weird post.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:41
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Desert Bus posted:He used to? have a forum that went along with his blog and it was super insular and weird. Like you could interact with some really creative people but god help you if you fall out of line and make a weird post. Yeah if you check SoManyOfUs.com it confirms all my worst suspicions about what was going on with him back then and still is, or was as recently as 2020. What a loving creep.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:52
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Len posted:Hell Sanderson didn't even really lower himself to the level of that hit piece from a few months ago. Dude might be one of the good ones Yeah, the funniest part of that whole debacle is that Sanderson writing the most perfectly polite, Sandersonian response possible must have driven the Wired dude absolutely bonkers.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:53
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HopperUK posted:Yeah if you check SoManyOfUs.com it confirms all my worst suspicions about what was going on with him back then and still is, or was as recently as 2020. What a loving creep. I didn't link it cause I assumed everyone in the convo already knew. This same thread, over a year ago lol: Desert Bus posted:Warren Ellis didn't so much lose his poo poo as get his poo poo handed to him by being outed as a giant sexpest.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:55
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Jeannette Ng's Hugo acceptance speech won a Hugo lol. Watch this it's amazing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ58zf0vzB0 EDIT: their book "Under the Pendulum Sun" is loving great. read it
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Jun 3, 2023 16:57
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The only thing I can really hold against Sanderson is that as a devout Mormon he tithes to the LDS church, which does lovely things. But while it's not great that's on the low end compared to many shithead creators out there (compare to Card, for instance). YMMV.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:58
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Lemniscate Blue posted:The only thing I can really hold against Sanderson is that as a devout Mormon he tithes to the LDS church, which does lovely things. But while it's not great that's on the low end compared to many shithead creators out there (compare to Card, for instance). YMMV. Sanderson is Card's protege which is not a great look.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:59
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Article is paywalled for me, but there was a backlash against Gadsby recently after beloved Australian transphobe Barry Humphries died and people dug up stuff Gadsby had said about him years ago loving Humphries, being a loving piece of poo poo from beyond the grave. There's only one good Australian Humphry: 
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Jun 3, 2023 17:08
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Desert Bus posted:I'm thousands of posts behind I can't not autistically read Oh god, it's not just me then. New media being all "nah, ignore all the old poo poo, there's only the now" is murder on me. Gotta read it all for no goddamn reason because I'm a brain weird.
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Jun 3, 2023 17:09
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Oh god, it's not just me then. I have found some comfort and relief via getting drunk, thinking "8 thousand posts gently caress that" and deleting the bookmark for some threads. YMMV
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Jun 3, 2023 17:11
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I manage to do that occasional. Mostly they just sit there, in my control panel, mocking me.
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Jun 3, 2023 17:13
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Megillah Gorilla posted:I manage to do that occasional. My worst is 28k+ behind
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Jun 3, 2023 17:14
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is there any writer/artist from that ‘90s/’00s period who deliberately cultivated a notable online following who didn’t turn out to be a predator? Whedon is the big one, but even weirdo youtube people who are basically not notable tried to get in on that and ended up being rapists. This really isn't new or limited to that time period. See: Asimov's infamous behavior at scifi cons.
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Jun 3, 2023 17:15
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Oh god, it's not just me then. websites with nested comments where they're algorithmically sorted are the worst because i have to read it all and it's impossible
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Jun 3, 2023 17:24
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Just show me the posts in the order they were made, why is that still so hard
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Jun 3, 2023 17:26
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CJacobs posted:Just show me the posts in the order they were made, why is that still so hard they usually have way to sort the original comments. it's once the comments each turn into their own chain having the same discussions over and over it gets iffy
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Jun 3, 2023 17:31
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:Not at all, just pointing out Raiden would've been too obvious a ripoff had the Mortal Kombat movie just directly took his appearance from the games. IIRC Mortal Kombat apparently was also originally going to have Jean-Claude Van Damme, who was reworked into Johnny Cage. There's a reason all those 80s action movie (and horror movie) crossover characters work surprisingly well in MK, given what it was openly ripping off in the first place. Arivia posted:this av club article makes it out to basically be a bunch of critics smelling blood in the water from a bad art exhibit and taking out old axes against nanette: https://www.avclub.com/hannah-gadsby-picasso-exhibit-roasted-by-art-critics-1850500085 From what I read it's mostly just calling it out as ultimately toothless and tepid vague flailing against a dead man without anything to say about things like the African art that he actually ripped off without credit or any female artists that weren't already being exhibited in that same gallery. A lot of academic feminism is pretty much thread material for a few reasons.
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Jun 3, 2023 18:33
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is there any writer/artist from that ‘90s/’00s period who deliberately cultivated a notable online following who didn’t turn out to be a predator? Whedon is the big one, but even weirdo youtube people who are basically not notable tried to get in on that and ended up being rapists. Pratchett
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Jun 3, 2023 20:33
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is there any writer/artist from that ‘90s/’00s period who deliberately cultivated a notable online following who didn’t turn out to be a predator? Whedon is the big one, but even weirdo youtube people who are basically not notable tried to get in on that and ended up being rapists. Fame is bad and makes you a bad person.
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Jun 3, 2023 20:37
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Woolie Wool posted:Fame is bad and makes you a bad person. I would argue it's a mix of societal misogyny and rape culture that's instrumental here. Fame just gives people the power to act on it and helps them get away with it.
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Jun 3, 2023 20:51
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mycatscrimes posted:This really isn't new or limited to that time period. See: Asimov's infamous behavior at scifi cons. Did he cultivate an image as a friend to fans or make himself approachable? I guess there was a definite fan subculture and fan clubs with magazines and things like that.
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Jun 3, 2023 21:31
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I AM GRANDO posted:Did he cultivate an image as a friend to fans or make himself approachable? I guess there was a definite fan subculture and fan clubs with magazines and things like that. Being a constant on the con circuit is it's own kind of celebrity circle with it's own kind of weird fan interactions, but a lot of it involves being accessible to and moving among fans. I wouldn't say it's a one-to-one with running a blog or webforum and cultivating a circle that way, but it's not unrelated. People who get away with poo poo on the con circuit often abuse the sense of community that is fostered there. In Asimov's case, there was a pervasive dismassal of him as just as a harmless guy who took a joke (repeated unwanted groping) too far sometime, but in addition to being Isaac Asimov, he's also here with us. This ties back into rape culture and societal misogyny- the victims probably are overreacting, they actually enjoy it, it's all just joking around, who wouldn't want to flirt with [sexually assault] beautiful women in his position, no one wants to alienate our community's good relationship with Isaac Asimov over a bunch of misunderstandings and overreactions. It's very, very related to the dynamic cultivated by Ellis and others who used internet groups as their hunting grounds.
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Jun 3, 2023 21:41
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Geniunely: Every time there's a spate of predators uncovered in some circle or institution, people start asking 'what went uniquely wrong with this institution, what is it about musicians/gymnastics/directors/conventions that makes this happen'? And yeah sometimes there are specifics! But it often leads to missing the forest for the trees. Sexual predation is inescapable because society still views women as sexual objects, views men as entitled to sex and sex as an expression of power for men, and sexual violence as not really a huge deal. I want to stress that my emphasis on men and women up there doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that other patterns of victimization occur. I think that this setup harms men, women, nonbinary people, straights and gays, etc etc. However there is an undeniable gendered element to the social construction of these power dynamics, rooted in the construction of a hiearchy between men and women, and control over women as a sexual resource. In fact, I think the reaction you often see dismissing male victims is fairly straightforward example of how the societal idea of sex being an expression of power for men can harm men directly. It's not an accident of circumstance that abusers exist in and exploit any circle, it is a fundamental problem across any area in society where people can accumulate power over others, from the family unit to celebrity culture to government, and it is in part rooted in societal attitudes towards sex, power and sexual violence, more than any specific subculture it crops up in. mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 21:54 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 21:48
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mycatscrimes posted:Being a constant on the con circuit is it's own kind of celebrity circle with it's own kind of weird fan interactions, but a lot of it involves being accessible to and moving among fans. I wouldn't say it's a one-to-one with running a blog or webforum and cultivating a circle that way, but it's not unrelated. People who get away with poo poo on the con circuit often abuse the sense of community that is fostered there. In Asimov's case, there was a pervasive dismassal of him as just as a harmless guy who took a joke (repeated unwanted groping) too far sometime, but in addition to being Isaac Asimov, he's also here with us. This ties back into rape culture and societal misogyny- the victims probably are overreacting, they actually enjoy it, it's all just joking around, who wouldn't want to flirt with [sexually assault] beautiful women in his position, no one wants to alienate our community's good relationship with Isaac Asimov over a bunch of misunderstandings and overreactions. That does sound very similar.
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Jun 3, 2023 21:50
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I AM GRANDO posted:That does sound very similar. In a way the internet took the fan relationship with celebrities that existed on the convention circuit and blew it up to a huge degree by making fan-celeb interactions possible in any online community. Edit: Sorry I got way up on a soapbox there. mycatscrimes has a new favorite as of 21:57 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 21:52
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mycatscrimes posted:I would argue it's a mix of societal misogyny and rape culture that's instrumental here. Fame just gives people the power to act on it and helps them get away with it. I genuinely think there is something dangerous about fame. A lot of indigenous societies, especially the more egalitarian ones that inspired ideas like Marx's primitive communism, would undermine, ridicule, and shame people who tried to show up other people and be recognized for their "greatness". They knew what "great" people would do to their societies if allowed to run rampant. We give such people all the recognition they want and then some. We build shrines and statues to them, become their "fans", indulge their vanity at every turn. And then we wonder why these oversized, overweening personalities, usually men, go on to prey on other people, usually women and children. It's where misogyny and patriarchy come from. Woolie Wool has a new favorite as of 22:22 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 22:17
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Woolie Wool posted:I genuinely think there is something dangerous about fame. A lot of indigenous societies, especially the more egalitarian ones that inspired ideas like Marx's primitive communism, would undermine, ridicule, and shame people who tried to show up other people and be recognized for their "greatness". They knew what "great" people would do to their societies if allowed to run rampant. We give such people all the recognition they want and then some. We build shrines and statues to them, become their "fans", indulge their vanity at every turn. And then we wonder why these oversized, overweening personalities, usually men, go on to prey on other people, usually women and children. It's where misogyny and patriarchy come from. Fame is inextricably linked with power, and it's a kind of social power, which is by it's nature harder to identify and set regulations around than formal power, so you aren't wrong that there is a unique danger there. However you see these conditions reproduced even in environments where the powerful person isn't a celebrity, so long as they have power over the people they abuse, so I think it's also simplistic to say it's purely fame. A lot of times it's the small, personal power afforded by being a spouse, parent or teacher, and there's no external celebrity that person has to warp their view of the world, just a slice of power over another human.
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Jun 3, 2023 22:55
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Phy posted:Pratchett came here to post this. wasn't there some poo poo lately in the UK where people were saying, and quite proudly, that he would be against all this "trans garbage" much like JK Rowling, and Pratchett's daughter came out and put the fuckers in their place? that they could have JK Rowling as a transphobe but they certainly don't get Pratchett because he was not one.
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Jun 4, 2023 02:01
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Cowslips Warren posted:came here to post this. Rhianna and Gaiman both went immediately "gently caress you. Pterry was strongly for Trans rights. Read any single loving Discworld book with Female Dwarves for fucks sake"
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Jun 4, 2023 02:07
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Megillah Gorilla posted:loving Humphries, being a loving piece of poo poo from beyond the grave. I dunno, I heard he gets in all manner of strife
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Jun 4, 2023 02:17
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Megillah Gorilla posted:loving Humphries, being a loving piece of poo poo from beyond the grave. This is B Flaubert erasure
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