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He also first shows up to the plot to go “ooh if you just understood we could work together” at Minfillia and the WoL. It’s just that he never revisited that again until the WoL starting killing Ascians and his opinion eventually changed to “wait gently caress they killed Lahabrea OH gently caress YOU YOU KILLED EMET-SELCH”. He was starting his normal hero manipulating thing but in the process accidentally let slip the first hint of how to murder Ascians for real to a group that both knew what Ascians were and were smart enough to start formulating.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:38
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Controlling both sides of the conflict is how they achieve the timing they need. They were afraid heroes they didn't control could gently caress up their plans, and they were right about that.
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Jun 3, 2023 16:39
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You gotta have heroes to oppose the evil plans so they don't happen too hard too fast and you end up with a world that's just a Flood of Element and so that enough people survive to rebuild so you can do it all again. That's the balance
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Jun 3, 2023 16:43
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I'm pretty sure we've all just typed exactly the same thing
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Jun 3, 2023 17:08
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honestly nabriales probably hosed elidibus's plans pretty hard in that respect. reading ARR and HW backwards with our future (later-written) knowledge from other expansions, it seems pretty clear that urianger should've been our shadowkeeper/cyella/cylva except that lmao nabriales trucked in and caused moenbryda's death, thereby ensuring the most "i can be a little sneaky and manipulative for the greater good" scion was permanently off team ascian
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Jun 3, 2023 17:33
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Valentin posted:honestly nabriales probably hosed elidibus's plans pretty hard in that respect. reading ARR and HW backwards with our future (later-written) knowledge from other expansions, it seems pretty clear that urianger should've been our shadowkeeper/cyella/cylva except that lmao nabriales trucked in and caused moenbryda's death, thereby ensuring the most "i can be a little sneaky and manipulative for the greater good" scion was permanently off team ascian it owns that the sneakiest scion is the one who talks like someone making fun of shakespeare and not the one trained from a young age for espionage
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Jun 3, 2023 17:50
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Riol is better than Thancred at all the spy stuff anyway
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Jun 3, 2023 17:53
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C's get degrees even at archon school i guess
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Jun 3, 2023 17:58
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one of my random 7.0 hopes is more riol. i have no justification for it, there is very little of interest about him, he's just been there since ARR and stood near some important plot points (rip wilred) and i want to know what his class is. but my true kokoro wish is a name for the keeper of entwined serpents. i don't even like the guy i just think he should have a name Valentin fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 18:01
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If there isn’t a Hoary Boulder trust in 7.0 then what the gently caress are we even doing?
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Jun 3, 2023 18:14
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I want Krile trust! Let Krile fight!
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Jun 3, 2023 18:15
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Chillgamesh posted:If there isn’t a Hoary Boulder trust in 7.0 then what the gently caress are we even doing? 
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Jun 3, 2023 18:44
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Hoary Boulder still isn't a trust in 7.0, but throughout the whole game we meet him at various points in the story and he's always with a new party member - he talks about his ongoing quest and the party member expounds on details Hoary left out in his retelling.
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Jun 3, 2023 18:50
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I think both Elidibus and Emet periodically go native a bit too much for The Plan, but Elidibus' role means he's less likely to do it in a way that causes problems. Emet has to spend long spans of time living among mortals and forming bonds which makes him hesitate, especially since he has to do both the evil conquering empire bits and the "bring prosperity and happiness to a downtrodden or desperate people and eventually to their territories" stages of the Plan. Lahabrea is the only one who doesn't seem to hesitate and that's because he's already a man used to suppressing personal desires in pursuit of the Plan, and quite probably a puppet of Ultima as well. And his role as the cackling bodyjacking supervillain makes it easier for him to maintain that distance, even as it ruins him as a functional human being.
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Jun 3, 2023 19:20
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Jetrauben posted:Lahabrea is the only one who doesn't seem to hesitate and that's because he's already a man used to suppressing personal desires in pursuit of the Plan, and quite probably a puppet of Ultima as well. And his role as the cackling bodyjacking supervillain makes it easier for him to maintain that distance, even as it ruins him as a functional human being. 'But a fragment of the power of my god.' INDEED, Lahabrea. Which god was that again?
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Jun 3, 2023 19:30
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FuturePastNow posted:I'm pretty sure we've all just typed exactly the same thing I think I typed a bit about Elidibus controlling heroes a page before this discussion, in fact. 
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Jun 3, 2023 20:28
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Gearhead posted:'But a fragment of the power of my god.' INDEED, Lahabrea. Ultimmmmmy word, look at the time, time to go pray to *checks notes scribbled on hand*.. Zediork?
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Jun 3, 2023 20:30
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Cabbit posted:Ultimmmmmy word, look at the time, time to go pray to *checks notes scribbled on hand*.. Zediork? Between Lahabrea's slips of character that seem to only make more sense in retrospect, and someone having allowed a doomsday cultist loose in Ivalice with enough knowledge, aether and faith to whistle up a Primal of Ultima instead of just.. you know.. tearing open a hole to the Void, you really gotta wonder whose side he was really on. EDIT: I almost want to imagine that St. Ajora in FFXIV was a Black Mask working for Lahabrea who got a little close to the fumes the Heart was giving off and ran off to spread their new religion. Gearhead fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jun 3, 2023 |
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Jun 3, 2023 20:39
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I gotta say even though I know it’s a retcon the idea of Lahabrea being completely hosed in the head and gradually blurring Zodiark and Athena together over 10000 years is really cool
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Jun 3, 2023 20:59
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Chillgamesh posted:I gotta say even though I know it’s a retcon the idea of Lahabrea being completely hosed in the head and gradually blurring Zodiark and Athena together over 10000 years is really cool It fits well with the theme of the other two Unsundered. Emet-Selch was forced to tear down everything he created and design flawed things intended to self destruct. Elidibus lost everything about himself other than the IDEA that he had sworn an oath to 'save the world.' Lahabrea lost himself in the minds of his own victims was torn to pieces by the very forces he tried to exploit, and died screaming, his plans finally having spiraled far beyond of his control.
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Jun 3, 2023 21:06
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Dr Pepper posted:Honestly I bet it's the other way around. With Answers being uses as a starting point for the stories themes. Answers was written for 1.0 before yoshi-p came on board and the entire Dalamud/Bahamut storyline was conceived, so there was a little bit of the tail wagging the dog given that the game's main orchestral theme was written before the game's story.
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Jun 3, 2023 21:14
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gtrmp posted:Answers was written for 1.0 before yoshi-p came on board and the entire Dalamud/Bahamut storyline was conceived, so there was a little bit of the tail wagging the dog given that the game's main orchestral theme was written before the game's story. Answers is so drat powerful that not calling back to it is basically insanity, but it was also the lietmotif of what became the Hydelain vs Zodiark story and the tragedy of the Ancients. I wouldn't be shocked if 6.5 ends with another extremely powerful song that becomes a new lietmotif going forward into the new arc... hopefully without the entire world getting nuked by a rage dragon.
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Jun 3, 2023 21:27
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I personally don't see the whole "LAHABREA WAS SECRETLY/INADVERTENTLY WORSHIPPING ATHENA" theory as making any sense. It seems likely that Emet didn't know about the Heart of Sabik, which is why he theorized that Lahabrea was giving himself brain damage with constant bodyswaps. More than likely, the Heart just kept jacking up his "Commence the Rejoinings" ambition to the point that it made him the barely hinged zealot we know from ARR/HW, especially given that the Unsundered were operating under some degree of Tempering, so Labs was getting it from two different sources. Gearhead posted:Answers is so drat powerful that not calling back to it is basically insanity, but it was also the lietmotif of what became the Hydelain vs Zodiark story and the tragedy of the Ancients. I don't disagree, but drat, I can't imagine how they can top Answers for pure raw power.
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Jun 3, 2023 22:52
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the_steve posted:I don't disagree, but drat, I can't imagine how they can top Answers for pure raw power.
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Jun 4, 2023 00:19
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the_steve posted:I personally don't see the whole "LAHABREA WAS SECRETLY/INADVERTENTLY WORSHIPPING ATHENA" theory as making any sense. We see where over time Elidibus started to lose his grip on what he was doing, it's not a huge leap to think that Lahabrea's loyalties might have been divided, consciously or unconsciously. I don't think it's an accident that the Lucavi are presented as a serious problem every time they show up. the_steve posted:I don't disagree, but drat, I can't imagine how they can top Answers for pure raw power. Answers has the added weight of all the other things that we associate with it, any new leitmotif would need to grow into that.
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Jun 4, 2023 00:40
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I keep thinking I like Answers, but then I realize I'm just thinking of Dragonsong and literally can't remember what Answers sounds like beyond a part thar goes 'ANSWERS, O ANSWERS'
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Jun 4, 2023 00:53
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Cleretic posted:I keep thinking I like Answers, but then I realize I'm just thinking of Dragonsong and literally can't remember what Answers sounds like beyond a part thar goes 'ANSWERS, O ANSWERS' So you don't remember any of Answers, got it. (Real talk, you probably just misheard the end of the second chanting section which has "(Hear) Answer (Look) Answer (Think) Answer Together" as the lyric. This is the only time the word Answer is used in the song.)
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Jun 4, 2023 01:06
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the_steve posted:I don't disagree, but drat, I can't imagine how they can top Answers for pure raw power. Do you know La Hee? Cleretic posted:I keep thinking I like Answers, but then I realize I'm just thinking of Dragonsong and literally can't remember what Answers sounds like beyond a part thar goes 'ANSWERS, O ANSWERS' I don't even remember that part. I literally have no memeory of the song.
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Jun 4, 2023 01:09
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A refresher for people who can't remember https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-flsT6LWwY
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Jun 4, 2023 01:10
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Oh. That one. I sometimes hear it when I go into my FC's house, but I don't pay it much attention. Also, why are Ardbert and his gang fighting on the source? Also also: I thought he said in ShB that the rest of his party died, but he wasn't allowed to, so why do we have to fight them in the Role Quests?
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Jun 4, 2023 01:18
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sweet geek swag posted:So you don't remember any of Answers, got it. Yeah, that sounds about right. I think that's the part that plays for the end of Venat's walk, which is basically the only time I actually recognized 'oh yeah this is Answers probably'. Kheldarn posted:Also, why are Ardbert and his gang fighting on the source? ...do you actually play this game? Ardbert and company are based on the trailer crew, that was the entire joke of their first appearance. And we fought them in the role quest because they were sin eater zombies.
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Jun 4, 2023 01:20
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https://twitter.com/goldfishu/status/1665151674384629762?s=46&t=8qKeRz1MPwpnqaU9WYBJgg
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Jun 4, 2023 01:24
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Cleretic posted:Yeah, that sounds about right. I think that's the part that plays for the end of Venat's walk, which is basically the only time I actually recognized 'oh yeah this is Answers probably'. To add onto this, they ALL died, including Ardbert. It was their souls that the rest of them gave to help stop the Flood when Ardbert wasn't permitted to. They all had to die as "renunciation of the flesh" in order to use the same method the Ascians use to travel between shards, so they could come to the Source to try and push toward a Calamity so they could force a Rejoining of the First instead of just obliteration via Flood Of Light The reason Ardbert's body wasn't also made a Sin Eater Zombie was because there were... other plans for his body. BlazetheInferno fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jun 4, 2023 |
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Jun 4, 2023 01:41
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It's the one that goes 'To all of my children, there's a sale on at Macy's" or something like that
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Jun 4, 2023 02:09
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Dragonsong keeps slipping off my mind like it was an oily mass. I always think of Heavensward or Heroes first when I try to think of the melody or vocals.
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Jun 4, 2023 02:09
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Maxwell Lord posted:It's the one that goes 'To all of my children, there's a sale on at Macy's" or something like that 
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Jun 4, 2023 02:21
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hopeandjoy posted:He also first shows up to the plot to go “ooh if you just understood we could work together” at Minfillia and the WoL. It’s just that he never revisited that again until the WoL starting killing Ascians and his opinion eventually changed to “wait gently caress they killed Lahabrea OH gently caress YOU YOU KILLED EMET-SELCH”. One of the things is that I feel like it's not by accident? He pretty much organized the situation for us to be able to watch that Sahaguin Priest get absorbed by Leviathan, which directly led to the realization. I wonder if perhaps he wanted to use us to eliminate ascians that were troublesome? (Possibly Lahabrea)
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Jun 4, 2023 02:56
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Elidibus is genuinely pissed at us in the ShB patches for killing Lahabrea (and Emet) even if he thinks Lahabrea is often a moron. I don’t think he ever meant for us to figure out how to kill unsundered. Killing sundered I think happened decently often (Ardbert and crew managed to get two without even trapping them first), but you can just find the next reincarnation and uplift them.
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Jun 4, 2023 03:26
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Shogeton posted:One of the things is that I feel like it's not by accident? He pretty much organized the situation for us to be able to watch that Sahaguin Priest get absorbed by Leviathan, which directly led to the realization. I wonder if perhaps he wanted to use us to eliminate ascians that were troublesome? (Possibly Lahabrea) His plan at that stage was probably to try to ultimately recruit us as Black Masks. 'I just need to show these lesser creatures what we're doing to save everyone and they'll join up. We're really just alike, trying to save the world, they just don't UNDERSTAND.' At this point in the plot we were still seeing a lot of Lesser Arcana/Black Mask Ascians, which vanished around the time it came to light we could kill them for real.
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Jun 4, 2023 03:27
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hopeandjoy posted:Elidibus is genuinely pissed at us in the ShB patches for killing Lahabrea (and Emet) even if he thinks Lahabrea is often a moron. I don’t think he ever meant for us to figure out how to kill unsundered. Killing sundered I think happened decently often (Ardbert and crew managed to get two without even trapping them first), but you can just find the next reincarnation and uplift them. Yes. In a way I think they were in an arms race there, with each rejoining they weakened Hydaelyn and strengthened Zodiark, but they were also making the mortals of the Source stronger each time. At least at the kind of aetheric combat needed to really fight them.
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Jun 4, 2023 04:27
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