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She's a cool design and a lot of bad comics so that kind of makes sense. The general public is only going to know her from the movies, and her name on the ATSV merch actually is Spider-Gwen (it was just 'Gwen Stacy' for ITSV.)
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Jun 5, 2023 14:00
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I actually liked the original run of comics in her universe. It feels like when they brought her to 616, just bleh.
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Jun 5, 2023 14:04
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How many spider heroes does 616 have now?
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Jun 5, 2023 14:05
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8
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Jun 5, 2023 14:06
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Aphrodite posted:She's a cool design and a lot of bad comics so that kind of makes sense. Although the movie itself calls her Spider-Woman.
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Jun 5, 2023 14:19
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Dexo posted:I actually liked the original run of comics in her universe. The first five issue Spider-Gwen series was fine, but Latour's follow up series was just the Gwen misery tour and I didn't care for it. Like who thought stripping her of her powers after eight issues was a good idea?
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Jun 5, 2023 14:32
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Never liked the name Ghost-Spider. Seems too similar to Ghost Rider, the "st" into "s" is awkward, it only makes sense because of her costume and that kind of locks her into using a predominantly white one, and if anyone was going to be given a ghost name why not the one Spider-Man who can actually turn invisible?
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Jun 5, 2023 14:35
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Because Gwen is dead, duh
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Jun 5, 2023 15:00
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Fangz posted:Not much of a secret identity if she's just called spider gwen tbf by the end of her book her identity is public in her universe
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Jun 5, 2023 15:12
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OnimaruXLR posted:the initial premise of the Ultimate universe (classic stories but without all the continuity weighing it down) had failed I'm still not entirely clear on why it failed. Streamlining the classic storylines with some updates and slight changes to allow a new generation of comic fans to get in on the ground floor seemed like a perfect thing to do. And there are plenty of elements from those Ultimate stories that ended up being incorporated into the MCU. I'm sure there's a lot I don't know about what actually went into those books and what their reception was. I'd love to read some kinda breakdown of it all though and see why it all failed. I mean, you could just say "They like Ultimatum happen" but I feel like the problems had to exist before then.
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Jun 5, 2023 15:28
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Gwen isn't in the 616 now, she just goes to college there. Because as mentioned above her identity is not secret in her universe anymore. She was kicked out of her universe by Sue and Johnny Storm for a short time at one point but she lives there again now last I saw. It's been a minute since I read any of her stuff though so I guess it might have changed again.
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Jun 5, 2023 15:28
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Might be the only person who cares about this but I like how the Collider in these movies is a reference to the experiment that irradiated the spider in the original comics creation of Spider-Man and pays huge respect to it. Retellings and adaptations have focused either on the mutation aspect, as if the point is just to modify the spider and with that we get genetically enhanced spiders because awe and fear towards radiation is such a space age thing and so we should modernize it! But to me the point of having the experiment in the origin was to imbue the spider with amazing, otherworldly power and energy and the Collider sells that better than any previous version of the story.   Sockser posted:Because Gwen is dead, duh An even worse reason! It just makes her a reference to an alternate version of her secret identity and makes it seem like she can't escape being Spider-Man's Dead Girlfriend. And it doesn't make much sense in any adaptation that doesn't match the same story as the comics.
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Jun 5, 2023 15:29
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X-O posted:Gwen isn't in the 616 now, she just goes to college there. Because as mentioned above her identity is not secret in her universe anymore. She was kicked out of her universe by Sue and Johnny Storm for a short time at one point but she lives there again now last I saw. It's been a minute since I read any of her stuff though so I guess it might have changed again. I feel like transcripts from an alternate dimension wouldn't easily transfer
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Jun 5, 2023 15:33
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Endless Mike posted:I feel like transcripts from an alternate dimension wouldn't easily transfer Just another Tuesday for the 616 Empire State University admissions office.
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Jun 5, 2023 15:45
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Jamesman posted:I'm still not entirely clear on why it failed. Streamlining the classic storylines with some updates and slight changes to allow a new generation of comic fans to get in on the ground floor seemed like a perfect thing to do. And there are plenty of elements from those Ultimate stories that ended up being incorporated into the MCU. Mainly because it had been around about a decade at that point so it had all the same baggage, plus they let Loeb have way too much control and he made just the worst dog poo poo and killed the brand (before they literally let him kill the brand)
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Jun 5, 2023 15:48
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It was always very funny whenever you could tell Bendis was unhappy that USM had to participate in the trash ultimate crossover events and stories.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:03
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Opopanax posted:Mainly because it had been around about a decade at that point so it had all the same baggage, plus they let Loeb have way too much control and he made just the worst dog poo poo and killed the brand (before they literally let him kill the brand) Baggage is a good word because it had accumulated issues in both the publishing sense and personality sense. Like if one of the main goals of the new universe was to give readers an easier experience and understanding of the whole story, why does the marquee hero require a reading order guide to make sense of it all? It's one of the things that people praise manga for, you start with issue 1 and you just keep reading that one title as the numbers go up. The Ultimate Universe did all the exact same poo poo with relaunches and renumberings and crossovers and multiple titles per hero.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:07
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Jamesman posted:I'm still not entirely clear on why it failed. Streamlining the classic storylines with some updates and slight changes to allow a new generation of comic fans to get in on the ground floor seemed like a perfect thing to do. And there are plenty of elements from those Ultimate stories that ended up being incorporated into the MCU. The book that actually did this, Spider-Man, didn't fail. All the others tried to do other stuff and it sucked.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:13
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I can see Aaron and Miles being more anti-heroes than heroes in their universe with Jefferson being dead. I don't think Aaron would take kindly to someone killing his brother, for all his faults he seemed to try to do right with his family.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:25
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The big problem with comics miles was that his stuff wasn't that good. It was very clear that Bendis had a good idea for a character, and a couple of starting ideas for storylines, but he didn't have any sort of grand plans and things just kind of unraveled as they went on. It wasn't really until spider-men/secret War/ him coming into the 616 that we start getting really good stuff. Having Peter as a mentor helps the character work a lot better, and that's a big part of what they wound up using with the first spider-verse movie
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Jun 5, 2023 16:31
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I think comic Miles started out a bit too young as well. Before a couple time skips I believe he started at like 13 years old. And that's just too young in reality to be doing Spider-Man level plots. It works fine in a lighter book like a Moon Girl or something to have a young protagonist. But you're really leaving a lot of what makes a Spider-Man comic work, the interpersonal relationships being a prime example, when he's that young.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:35
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Opopanax posted:The big problem with comics miles was that his stuff wasn't that good. It was very clear that Bendis had a good idea for a character, and a couple of starting ideas for storylines, but he didn't have any sort of grand plans and things just kind of unraveled as they went on. It wasn't really until spider-men/secret War/ him coming into the 616 that we start getting really good stuff. Having Peter as a mentor helps the character work a lot better, and that's a big part of what they wound up using with the first spider-verse movie Miles never really became Spider-Man during that run. He was just a supporting character for a dead guy.
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Jun 5, 2023 16:36
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OnimaruXLR posted:A lot of this is speculation on my part, but I think once Marvel realized the initial premise of the Ultimate universe (classic stories but without all the continuity weighing it down) had failed, Bendis felt the idea of introducing a new, young Spider-Man would work nicely especially with Peter being around in the prime universe for "adult" Spider-man stories I think it was more that Bendis saw the swell of support for a black actor to play Spider-Man (#glover4spider-man was going for almost a year before Miles was introduced) and figured the people in charge would never take the risk in a movie so he thought he'd take a shot at solving the problem. Course he couldn't help making stupid mistakes like naming Mile's dad Jefferson Davis. I did notice Leopardon's absence in the film too, after confirmation he was going to be in it. I figured he was in the part of the story that got moved to the second film when they decided to split it up. I think there were a couple of Spider-men that were front and center in the early publicity material that didn't show up either. The giant cyborg spider-woman they keep flashing to in parts got her own movie tie in figure but didn't have a single line. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jun 5, 2023 |
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Jun 5, 2023 16:59
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howe_sam posted:The first five issue Spider-Gwen series was fine, but Latour's follow up series was just the Gwen misery tour and I didn't care for it. Like who thought stripping her of her powers after eight issues was a good idea? Yeah, that was a bizarre decision. I feel like they were going for a Spider-Gwen (I have no issue with that as a fan name, by the way, but I absolutely HATE that it's become the branding for her) No More thing, but the fact that it was a marginal book plus 21st century decompression meant it dragged out and became the status quo when it should've been like a 2-3 issue thing.
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Jun 5, 2023 17:31
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A problem I feel Miles, Kamala and most new heroes have is that none of them have any really great/cool enemies to bounce off, it’s like no one bothers to come up with any decent bad guys anymore. Think how many iconic wrong ‘uns most Marvel heroes pre90s would have within 5 years and who have Miles or Kamala got? That chicken scientist schmuck?X-O posted:Gwen isn't in the 616 now, she just goes to college there. drat, 616 must have some amazing unis of multiversal renown. Wasn’t America attending a 616 one as well?
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Jun 5, 2023 17:46
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Sentinel Red posted:A problem I feel Miles, Kamala and most new heroes have is that none of them have any really great/cool enemies to bounce off, it’s like no one bothers to come up with any decent bad guys anymore. Think how many iconic wrong ‘uns most Marvel heroes pre90s would have within 5 years and who have Miles or Kamala got? That chicken scientist schmuck? So I don't read comics that much anymore, usually I go back and cherrypick runs that are generally considered good years after the fact. Like I've heard Immortal Hulk is quite good so I'll probably read that at some point for example. So I might be completely incorrect but I feel like I was starting to notice this when I stopped reading comics regularly in the late 00s and the cause to me felt like about half the comics and a lot of the big events were about heroes fighting other heroes or just having verbal sparring with other characters. Either way it seemed like they were cutting villains out of entire runs to me. Then it felt like most new villains that did get introduced got dealt with quickly and then when writers came onto a run or writing a character they wanted to use either their favourite classic villains regardless of if they fit the hero or they had their own idea for a new villain who would then end up never being used again because the next writer would do the same thing.
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Jun 5, 2023 17:55
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I think it was more that Bendis saw the swell of support for a black actor to play Spider-Man (#glover4spider-man was going for almost a year before Miles was introduced) and figured the people in charge would never take the risk in a movie so he thought he'd take a shot at solving the problem. Bendis also has an adopted kid from Africa so that prompted him to try and make more young black heroes
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Jun 5, 2023 17:58
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Sentinel Red posted:drat, 616 must have some amazing unis of multiversal renown. Wasn’t America attending a 616 one as well? It's more that they're both well known in their home universe so 616 is the one of the few places they can actually get a normal education. Well normal in the sense that the villains teaching harass them for being students instead of super heroes.
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Jun 5, 2023 18:45
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I mean America was attending a multiversal university until marvel decided that entire story was something she imagined while drugged up in a mental institution or whatever
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Jun 5, 2023 19:05
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site posted:I mean America was attending a multiversal university until marvel decided that entire story was something she imagined while drugged up in a mental institution or whatever That story felt a lot like something people constantly pitch DC to make Superman 'less boring' and get shut down because it's frickin' Superman, but because America is a new character without 100 years of cultural inertia behind her, Marvel went "yeah, I guess she is too powerful".
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Jun 5, 2023 19:41
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Sentinel Red posted:A problem I feel Miles, Kamala and most new heroes have is that none of them have any really great/cool enemies to bounce off, it’s like no one bothers to come up with any decent bad guys anymore. Think how many iconic wrong ‘uns most Marvel heroes pre90s would have within 5 years and who have Miles or Kamala got? That chicken scientist schmuck? This reminds me of the first Spider-Men crossover miniseries. There's a bit where their biggest villains come and attack Miles and Peter. Peter has the usual suspects while Miles has Prowler and.. Omega Red and Scorpion (actually just a gangster with a big chain who appeared in one issue). Miles and Kamala are victims of their own success, once they got popular they just kept being shoved into every event front and centre and were in constant crossovers so they couldn't really have their own stories (but I haven't read either in years). USM (esp. pré-ultimatum) is the best spiderman run, much of it because it had none of that. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Jun 5, 2023 19:42
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No the early Miles stories were just "he fights Peter's villains now" before any of that.
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Jun 5, 2023 20:14
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Azubah posted:I can see Aaron and Miles being more anti-heroes than heroes in their universe with Jefferson being dead. I don't think Aaron would take kindly to someone killing his brother, for all his faults he seemed to try to do right with his family. I talked about it a bit in another thread but The way Miles is able to pass off being from 42 to both his mom and uncle until his uncle gets a text/call from Prowler Miles makes me think prowler miles is putting up a bit of an act right now and is still a good kid at heart. He loved his dad enough to put up the big mural still and I really think despite their differences if his brother was killed by or because of kingpin or the rest of the gangs Aaron wouldn't just stay in the same position as a lackey. That and the Sinister 6 seeming to run huge sections of the city makes me think their plan to break and enter might have more benevolent motives.
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Jun 5, 2023 20:21
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Ms. Marvel had a perfectly good arch nemesis in the bird clone of Thomas Edison, aka The Inventor, and the fact that he's only been revisited once or twice is frustrating.
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Jun 5, 2023 20:26
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Best party of USM was them realizing how loving stupid it was that they killed Gwen, that they proceeded to bullshit her back, in the most hilarious fashion.
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Jun 5, 2023 20:29
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They resurrected Clandestine of all the forgotten Marvel nonsense as a Ms. Marvel villain on the show, maybe they should let her keep rooting around in the dustbin of Marvel history and see if any rebooted villain squads stick. She could battle Zodiac or Psionex or the Grapplers (heck, we already have Titania, and Screaming Mimi could eventually be wound up for a Thunderbolts sequel. Titania vs. Kamala would be amazing anyway.).
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Jun 5, 2023 20:46
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Has any Marvel hero gotten brand new villains in the last 10 years that actually stick? Feels like anytime a writer tries they go too overboard with establishing the threat and people start hating them so they get shelved after the story is done. I mean Knull keeps getting trotted out but I don't think anyone actually is happy about that.
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Jun 5, 2023 21:18
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Endless Mike posted:I feel like transcripts from an alternate dimension wouldn't easily transfer I think if the alternate dimension was close enough to share the same physical laws that at least math should transfer (maybe not if they come from like, Weirdworld or something I guess). History credits sure as gently caress won't though. theironjef posted:They resurrected Clandestine of all the forgotten Marvel nonsense as a Ms. Marvel villain on the show, maybe they should let her keep rooting around in the dustbin of Marvel history and see if any rebooted villain squads stick. She could battle Zodiac or Psionex or the Grapplers (heck, we already have Titania, and Screaming Mimi could eventually be wound up for a Thunderbolts sequel. Titania vs. Kamala would be amazing anyway.). Kamala knowing these obscure villains that other people have mostly forgotten would be a fun beat. I need to catch up on Ms. Marvel, I got the first four trades then fell behind, but every time I think I should start up again I se the Civil War II tie-in and I just have like, a negative interest in that event.
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Jun 5, 2023 21:21
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Sharkopath posted:I talked about it a bit in another thread but The way Miles is able to pass off being from 42 to both his mom and uncle until his uncle gets a text/call from Prowler Miles makes me think prowler miles is putting up a bit of an act right now and is still a good kid at heart. He loved his dad enough to put up the big mural still and I really think despite their differences if his brother was killed by or because of kingpin or the rest of the gangs Aaron wouldn't just stay in the same position as a lackey. That and the Sinister 6 seeming to run huge sections of the city makes me think their plan to break and enter might have more benevolent motives. I pretty much agree. If you think back to the start with the student counselor, the theme of the movie is that "you write your own story", so it would go against that to have it so that Miles is only a good guy because of some random thing outside of his control. Also remember that Miles tied up Peter B in the first movie, so it's calling back to that. Fangz fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jun 5, 2023 |
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Jun 5, 2023 21:28
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catlord posted:I think if the alternate dimension was close enough to share the same physical laws that at least math should transfer (maybe not if they come from like, Weirdworld or something I guess). History credits sure as gently caress won't though.
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Jun 5, 2023 21:42
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