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`Nemesis posted:maybe hadlock ran out and bought a citation.... No, I'm still around. I'm looking into this new Harrier Jet technology though, looks like it could cut flight time to tahoe in half and won't need to worry about getting an S rating on my license either 
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Jun 5, 2023 21:12
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Spaced God posted:Literally every device everyone here is thinking of is undone by "you have eight seconds to do something before you die and some people will feel so loving awesome in those eight seconds they want to do nothing" Nightmare
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Jun 5, 2023 21:12
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Garmin's autoland system is available for relatively small planes. It wouldn't take much to add pressure monitoring to the system.
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Jun 5, 2023 21:28
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Guess we need this video again. They are telling Destin that he is about to die and needs to put his oxygen mask back on and he is sitting there smiling and saying "I don't want to die" while not doing anything. This is with him having the knowledge that he's going to be in a depressurized environment. If you slowly slip into hypoxia, you just don't know until it's too late. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw These planes definitely need something that starts blaring an alarm when the cabin pressure is dropping before it's too late.
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Jun 5, 2023 21:36
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Seems odd that a depressurization event doesn't automatically emit a distress beacon of some sort My boat has a $400 EPIRB (distress beacon) mounted about 3' above the floor if it gets wet it'll float off it's mount and 30 seconds later starts transmitting a distress beacon on ~415mhz that I can manually cancel. Every commercial ship since ~1982 has had the same device. I can't imagine a pressure sensor is that much more cost on a private jet
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Jun 5, 2023 21:37
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Where do the masks come from in the cockpit? They don’t drop from the ceiling because there’s a bunch of switches and stuff up there, right? I guess what I’m asking is - is the optimal time to put on a mask longer for the pilot versus the passengers?
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Jun 5, 2023 22:00
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david_a posted:Where do the masks come from in the cockpit? They don’t drop from the ceiling because there’s a bunch of switches and stuff up there, right? I guess what I’m asking is - is the optimal time to put on a mask longer for the pilot versus the passengers? There are considerations for this. The masks themselves are much nicer than the cup & bag affairs in steerage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLETHLv_0vk It used to be that if one pilot stepped out of the cockpit at cruise altitude, the other had to don a mask as a precautionary measure, but that is no longer in the regs.
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Jun 5, 2023 22:15
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I don't want to make a definitive statement since I don't know every single aircraft in the world, but I can't imagine a pressurized aircraft not having a cabin pressure alarm, especially one designed to carry passengers. david_a posted:Where do the masks come from in the cockpit? They don’t drop from the ceiling because there’s a bunch of switches and stuff up there, right? I guess what I’m asking is - is the optimal time to put on a mask longer for the pilot versus the passengers? Exact placement is going to vary by aircraft model, but they'll have a mask within arm's reach that can be donned in a matter of seconds if needed. The entire point is that if you have a rapid decompression you can get your mask on within your time of useful consciousness. e: those quick-don oxygen masks are exactly as fun as they look in that video. Using the air pressure to actuate the head straps is an extremely elegant solution, and it makes it literally as fast as putting on a hat.
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Jun 5, 2023 22:23
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Also, aren't the flight crew oxygen masks actually from a bottled source of oxygen that will last while the ones in the cabin are simple chemical generators that run out after a few minutes of runtime?
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Jun 5, 2023 22:27
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there was an airbus that had a windshield failure at 30k+ feet and the copilot got halfway sucked out. the pilot couldn't get to his mask because he would have had to let go of the side stick, so he just descended and landed the plane without suffocating or freezing. everyone survived, even the copilot. it happened over the himalayas iirc
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Jun 5, 2023 22:27
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the milk machine posted:there was an airbus that had a windshield failure at 30k+ feet and the copilot got halfway sucked out. the pilot couldn't get to his mask because he would have had to let go of the side stick, so he just descended and landed the plane without suffocating or freezing. everyone survived, even the copilot. it happened over the himalayas iirc Hmmm? A windshield failure shouldn't prevent him from letting go of the stick.
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Jun 5, 2023 22:32
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the milk machine posted:there was an airbus that had a windshield failure at 30k+ feet and the copilot got halfway sucked out. the pilot couldn't get to his mask because he would have had to let go of the side stick, so he just descended and landed the plane without suffocating or freezing. everyone survived, even the copilot. it happened over the himalayas iirc Unless it's a different one, I think you are referring to BA 5390 and it was a BAC One-Eleven Series, not an airbus. No side stick, one of the issues was that the cockpit door came forward with the decompression and wedged itself on the flight controls. And it was over England when it happened. Guy survived, but had severe frostbite.
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Jun 5, 2023 22:33
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Hmmm? A windshield failure shouldn't prevent him from letting go of the stick. the copilot was wedged halfway out the window and his knee/leg was against the other stick, idk, i assumed it had to do with how an airbus accounts for conflicting inputs or something bull3964 posted:Unless it's a different one, I think you are referring to BA 5390 and it was a BAC One-Eleven Series, not an airbus. No side stick, one of the issues was that the cockpit door came forward with the decompression and wedged itself on the flight controls. i looked up the one i'm talking about, it's sichuan 8633: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sichuan_Airlines_Flight_8633 they had a similar door issue where the door blew open and banged an electrical panel, popping a bunch of breakers
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Jun 5, 2023 22:48
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Unresponsive pilot seen slumped over before deadly Virginia plane crash, officials say https://apnews.com/article/washingt...c5836dede94524c Looks like hypoxia.
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Jun 5, 2023 23:33
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Hadlock posted:Seems odd that a depressurization event doesn't automatically emit a distress beacon of some sort let's pretend you do this and the plane automatically squawks a distress signal of some kind after the flight crew are incapacitated. the present course of action is ATC eventually notices that the plane is flying off course, tries to contact the crew, the crew fails to respond, and so the ANG is sent to take a look. The plane crashes and all its occupants die. in some case we might possibly have an active shootdown if the plane looks like it's gonna crash somewhere important. what course of action would change over the present course of action in any meaningfully productive way?
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Jun 5, 2023 23:33
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If you have a pinhole leak that the system can't keep up with, what happens in a pressurized jet currently
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Jun 5, 2023 23:42
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Hadlock posted:If you have a pinhole leak that the system can't keep up with, what happens in a pressurized jet currently the cabin pressurization system will indicate there is a failure and the crew will either descend to a safe altitude or completely gently caress it up by trying to troubleshoot the system while gradually going hypoxic
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Jun 5, 2023 23:56
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:let's pretend you do this and the plane automatically squawks a distress signal of some kind after the flight crew are incapacitated.
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Jun 6, 2023 00:05
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That seems reasonable. Seems like at 14,5 you'd at least regain consciousness enough to push the flashing red "autodescend to FL100 and hold pattern" button on the screen, and your chances of running into the peak of the two mountains in the continental US higher than that are stratospherically low* With some primitive geofencing of small parts of colorado and california, and basic compass input you could auto-descend to 12,5 with no risk *pun intended
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Jun 6, 2023 00:37
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yeah it seems like if the plane squawked a cabin pressure code and then auto descended, ATC has a lot to work with there on traffic routing to see if the pilot can regain control. I mean, if the pilot declared an emergency, ATC is going to make other traffic work around them anyways so
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Jun 6, 2023 00:45
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Hadlock posted:With some primitive geofencing of small parts of colorado and california, and basic compass input you could auto-descend to 12,5 with no risk Nah you also need to avoid, in the contiguous United States, parts of Washington, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico, Nevada, Montana, Idaho, and Arizona. e:Also if you look at those, plus Oregon, the highest point in the remaining states is under nine thousand feet. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 00:51
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The jet I fly has an auto emergency descent mode if the cabin altitude gets too high without crew action. It turns 90deg left, descends to 10,000ft and squawks 7700 to get ATC's attention. Obviously not every jet has this but it's cool to watch in the sim.
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Jun 6, 2023 00:54
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two_beer_bishes posted:The jet I fly has an auto emergency descent mode if the cabin altitude gets too high without crew action. It turns 90deg left, descends to 10,000ft and squawks 7700 to get ATC's attention. Obviously not every jet has this but it's cool to watch in the sim. that's cool. what kind of jet is it? also, is the left turn intended to be another signal to atc that something is up because of the sudden direction change?
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Jun 6, 2023 00:58
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even aircraft manufacturers know to 
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Jun 6, 2023 01:03
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the milk machine posted:that's cool. what kind of jet is it? also, is the left turn intended to be another signal to atc that something is up because of the sudden direction change? It's to avoid this.
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Jun 6, 2023 01:08
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Cojawfee posted:Guess we need this video again. They are telling Destin that he is about to die and needs to put his oxygen mask back on and he is sitting there smiling and saying "I don't want to die" while not doing anything. This is with him having the knowledge that he's going to be in a depressurized environment. If you slowly slip into hypoxia, you just don't know until it's too late. I like this one too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwp19C5wdrs This is a learjet 25 at FL320. The captain must be on supplemental oxygen but its clearly not enough. One thing not in the video - the flight control problem was because the FO had lost consciousness and was slumped over the yoke.
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Jun 6, 2023 01:10
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two_beer_bishes posted:The jet I fly has an auto emergency descent mode if the cabin altitude gets too high without crew action. It turns 90deg left, descends to 10,000ft and squawks 7700 to get ATC's attention. Obviously not every jet has this but it's cool to watch in the sim. Its a separate system but Garmin's autoland in the Cirrus can land itself and announces its intentions to ATC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKlxqnUslOI&t=103s I believe that still requires human input to start the process and the emergency descent stuff is separate. But at least with both systems you would only need one person on the aircraft to be conscious.
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Jun 6, 2023 01:19
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I really hope it announces intentions with the TikTok voice.
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Jun 6, 2023 01:21
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the milk machine posted:that's cool. what kind of jet is it? also, is the left turn intended to be another signal to atc that something is up because of the sudden direction change? Global 6000. The turn is so if you're on an airway, it takes you off the airway so the plane doesn't descend through other traffic, although a turn off course just presents other issues.
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Jun 6, 2023 01:23
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Cojawfee posted:I really hope it announces intentions with the TikTok voice. It’s at the time stamp I linked.
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Jun 6, 2023 01:35
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quote:Unable to control altitude. has got to be one of the best radio calls in aviation history.
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Jun 6, 2023 02:37
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SlapActionJackson posted:has got to be one of the best radio calls in aviation history. That and how quickly the crew goes back to normal as they descend is why I like that audio.
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Jun 6, 2023 03:06
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hobbesmaster posted:I believe that still requires human input to start the process and the emergency descent stuff is separate. But at least with both systems you would only need one person on the aircraft to be conscious. Based on Garmin's promo video it activates automatically if the pilot is unresponsive.
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Jun 6, 2023 03:24
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the milk machine posted:that's cool. what kind of jet is it? also, is the left turn intended to be another signal to atc that something is up because of the sudden direction change? it's a technique borrowed from NASCAR, where turning left at random has mixed results but turning right only ever has bad outcomes
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Jun 6, 2023 03:55
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Look, I don’t like road courses either but you’ve got to mix it up a bit from time to time.
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Jun 6, 2023 04:04
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shame on an IGA posted:it's a technique borrowed from NASCAR, where turning left at random has mixed results but turning right only ever has bad outcomes In computer science we call this the dE* (Dale Earnhardt) pathing algorithm
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Jun 6, 2023 04:08
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The solution is going to be, likely, mandating the continuous use of supplemental oxygen for single-pilot ops at certain altitudes, possibly with an automatic flow control that adjusts to cabin pressure.
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Jun 6, 2023 05:19
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Everyone is just going to ignore the rules even harder. But IMO promote whoever got Jerry to knock it off to head the FAA.
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Jun 6, 2023 05:29
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:what course of action would change over the present course of action in any meaningfully productive way? call International Rescue ya dungus Platystemon posted:Nah you also need to avoid, in the contiguous United States, parts of Washington, Wyoming, Utah, New Mexico, Nevada, Montana, Idaho, and Arizona. Colorado would like a word
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Jun 6, 2023 06:37
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Dr_Strangelove posted:Colorado would like a word Colorado and California were in Hadlock’s original proposal. Alaska and Hawai‘i both have terrain over FL125, but they’re not contiguous, and besides if you’re including them, you might as well include Canada and Mexico and soon the whole rest of the world. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 06:47
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