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Team Getting Victor This poll is closed. |
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| Pistons |
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7 | 17.07% |
| Spurs |
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14 | 34.15% |
| Rockets |
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2 | 4.88% |
| Blazers |
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4 | 9.76% |
| UCONN |
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6 | 14.63% |
| Other |
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8 | 19.51% |
| Total: | 41 votes | ||
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R.D. Mangles posted:Take a look at who was drafted in the last few nba expansion drafts, it's pretty grim. Keith Bogans
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Jun 6, 2023 01:33
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Lady Radia posted:i'll do it. i';ll enter the expansion draft I'm also declaring for the expansion draft
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Jun 6, 2023 01:41
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https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1665877888141279234?s=20 JJJ was one of the guys I wanted So far I think it's PG: Tyrese - Brunson SG: Edwards - Reaves SF: Ingram - Mikal PF: JJJ - Portis I'd like Bam/Brook at C and then two more spots would be like Bane, Garland, FVV, Gordon, or Cam Johnson?
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Jun 6, 2023 01:44
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That's nice of Ingram to his durability for the year on his country rather than his team
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Jun 6, 2023 02:53
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Paracaidas posted:I agree - my comment was more that with the money they're reportedly charging as an expansion fee, I don't think you're going to see teams getting to protect 8 again. "Join the league as a rebuilding team, except without any assets" doesn't sound like a $4 billion sales pitch. I expect they'll have every opportunity to compete and to do it early... but I've been wrong (many times about many things) before They also have essentially 0 in cap space, so they will be able to sign FA. They'll be bad but after a couple seasons they should be in fine shape.
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Jun 6, 2023 02:54
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:Wouldn't a theoretical expansion draft be like 3 years away? Brad Beal's contract is still going to have 2 years left in 3 years but Dex is right that he would have some trade value so will probably not actually be unprotected.
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Jun 6, 2023 03:34
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Lockback posted:They also have essentially 0 in cap space, so they will be able to sign FA. They'll be bad but after a couple seasons they should be in fine shape. I mean, that certainly was not the case for the only other expansion team in semi modern history. I think it’s pretty hard to be confident as to how it would work out
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Jun 6, 2023 03:34
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DeimosRising posted:I mean, that certainly was not the case for the only other expansion team in semi modern history. I think it’s pretty hard to be confident as to how it would work out Bobcats got to 30+ wins in 3 seasons. At that point they weren't exactly drafting great. Like, don't pick Ammo? I mean, I'm not saying your going to be an instant contender but most teams aren't. You have a path to not being a 15 win team within a couple seasons pretty easily though.
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Jun 6, 2023 03:41
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Seattle should be an instant contender since surely all the players saying a team should be there means they'll sign with them the moment they can
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Jun 6, 2023 03:44
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If they don't all still hate each other, KD/Russ/Harden should do a retirement tour year in Seattle.
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Jun 6, 2023 04:23
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Rick posted:Brad Beal's contract is still going to have 2 years left in 3 years but Dex is right that he would have some trade value so will probably not actually be unprotected. Beal has that no trade clause + trade kicker doesn't he? How often do players even get no trade clauses, and does anyone know how that's affected their trade value?
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Jun 6, 2023 05:33
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feller posted:Beal has that no trade clause + trade kicker doesn't he? How often do players even get no trade clauses, and does anyone know how that's affected their trade value? He does have both, he has everything. It's really wild they just gave it to him instantly. To get a no trade you have to be in the league 8 years and with the same team for 4, those two things happen surprisingly rarely and most teams fight pretty hard to avoid giving them out, so they don't too often. It definitely does affect trade value, usually lowers it since it stops teams from doing what the Spurs did with Kawhi and get the best deal rather than the player's destination. (note: there is a defacto no trade clause for players who are about to get their bird rights with a team but will lose them if traded, but this is getting pretty rare since players almost always get an option for a second year on MLEs). Trade kickers are often not worth as much as they seem. A trade kicker can't take a player above the league max contract, so a guy like Beal it doesn't make much of a difference. Although if players gave a home town discount, the max contract jumps up, or had incentives in their contract that they didn't hit (we as fans often don't know if this is happening since teams are charged the cap number of likely incentives, but no one ever publicizes if they actually hit those incentives), the trade kicker can make it up.
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Jun 6, 2023 06:30
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Henchman of Santa posted:Montreal should have an all-Francophone roster. Les Wembenyanas de Montréal
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Jun 6, 2023 06:49
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If there is an expansion drive, I'd imagine the NBA would follow the NHL and losen up the protection rules. Only Top 5 and a new team could cobble together a crew of 6th men? I dunno
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Jun 6, 2023 07:21
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No way they'd allow 8 protections again, espeoclaly with two teams joining at the same time. Protect five and once a player is picked you can protect two more, maximum two players picked from one team. That seems more reasonable to me.
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Jun 6, 2023 09:28
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gently caress it I want maximum drama let them only keep 1 player each
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Jun 6, 2023 09:28
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I’d think that Isaac would be protected because of the mutually shared views between him and ownership (it’s Erik Prince and DeVos lol), but looking at how much he’s actually played these last three years is truly shocking. 136 games in three seasons??
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Jun 6, 2023 12:11
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Lol https://twitter.com/nba_paint/status/1665768970845147137?t=Dpaol2Vkvbud10Mm8sRdrA&s=19
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Jun 6, 2023 12:37
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tanglewood1420 posted:No way they'd allow 8 protections again, espeoclaly with two teams joining at the same time. They don't want the expansion team to be a winner in the first couple of years. The team will have enough buzz being new. The expansion draft also isn't how they fill out their roster, having 100m+ in cap space and free agency is. They'll get a few decent players in free agency, get a bunch of fringe rotation guys in the draft, and be a 20 win team with a good draft pick that year
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Jun 6, 2023 13:37
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Lockback posted:They don't want the expansion team to be a winner in the first couple of years. The team will have enough buzz being new. The expansion draft also isn't how they fill out their roster, having 100m+ in cap space and free agency is. They'll get a few decent players in free agency, get a bunch of fringe rotation guys in the draft, and be a 20 win team with a good draft pick that year Am I crazy, or didn't the Bobcats have a much lower salary cap when they were added? I seem to recall that they needed to be in the league for a few years before they were even allowed to pay their team a comparable amount.
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Jun 6, 2023 14:30
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Veryslightlymad posted:Am I crazy, or didn't the Bobcats have a much lower salary cap when they were added? I seem to recall that they needed to be in the league for a few years before they were even allowed to pay their team a comparable amount. I think the first couple years they only had 2/3 the cap, which was still a fair bit. That is what I'd expect to be different if they wanted to accelerate a team, rather than let them draft better guys from existing teams. Keep in mind, a lot of decent-but-overpaid players were made available in 2004, I'd expect the same to happen again.
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Jun 6, 2023 15:27
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Lockback posted:They don't want the expansion team to be a winner in the first couple of years. The team will have enough buzz being new. The expansion draft also isn't how they fill out their roster, having 100m+ in cap space and free agency is. They'll get a few decent players in free agency, get a bunch of fringe rotation guys in the draft, and be a 20 win team with a good draft pick that year Hollinger napkinmathed it over the winter and came up with an estimate of the two expansion teams shrinking each team's annual share of national TV revenue in the new deal (assuming a charitable $75B/9yrs) from $277m to $260m, meaning each team costs the other owners a collective $255m per year or $2.3B over the life of just this one deal. What the national TV calcs leave out is that this also knocks out two future buyers and two future relocation markets, both of which lower the franchise values and future sale price of owners. For the sake of ease, we'll say those concerns approximately balance out the Net Present Value calcs and put the expansion fee at $2.4B to breakeven for owners. That's 6x the Bobcats fee and I suspect the calculation league sources were doing to get to the $2.1-$2.5B number Silver called low 2 years ago. I'm with Hollinger that we're likely looking more like $4B+ and I can't see them rolling out anything similar to the same protections they did for a tenth of the fee. Lockback posted:I think the first couple years they only had 2/3 the cap, which was still a fair bit. That is what I'd expect to be different if they wanted to accelerate a team, rather than let them draft better guys from existing teams. e: Not saying I'm right or this is how things have to be, just showing my work on why I think it'll be a markedly more generous expansion draft. Paracaidas fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 16:55
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Because catapulting them to a playoff team means 2 less playoff spots available for other teams, which is a direct hit. And Hockey and Basketball are very different in how you'd construct a team. Remember, the owners are the League, I don't see the owners agreeing to giving up good players in their long-term plans to allow a team to jump them in the playoff hunt. They'll get their fees regardless of what the first year protections are. There is just too much demand, especially to open a fresh team that you can be the king of.
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Jun 6, 2023 17:03
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Paracaidas posted:Minneapolis lol If you're gonna use the city name instead of the state like the team does you should probably at least use the one they play in  (it's St. Paul, they play in downtown St. Paul)
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Jun 6, 2023 17:04
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Lockback posted:Because catapulting them to a playoff team means 2 less playoff spots available for other teams, which is a direct hit. And Hockey and Basketball are very different in how you'd construct a team. Remember, the owners are the League, I don't see the owners agreeing to giving up good players in their long-term plans to allow a team to jump them in the playoff hunt. Lockback posted:They'll get their fees regardless of what the first year protections are. There is just too much demand, especially to open a fresh team that you can be the king of. IcePhoenix posted:lol 
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Jun 6, 2023 17:18
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Paracaidas posted:In a league that just added 4 playoff spots (personally I think this was expansion-linked, but I've got nothing but gut to back that), this is less of a concern. Also, a team of the 4th-6th best players should compete for a playin spot but I don't see them challenging for home court or pulling 50 wins. It's also a backlash-free way for the Lacobs of the world to lower their tax bills. They didn't, a real playoff spot is 2 guaranteed home games. A Play-in spot is a guaranteed 0 or 1. There is a big difference between a first round spot and a play-in spot. Regardless, no one wants to get leap-frogged and have players their fans actually care about get drafted and make their team worse. Paracaidas posted:By all accounts, this was not the case in the most recent Big 4 expansions, where NHL GMs "all recognized a $500-million expansion fee would buy a strong inaugural roster at the expense of the current 30." You keep comparing NHL and NBA. It's not at all the same in market and team construction. You can lose a good player in the NHL and be basically the same team. You lose a good player on an NBA roster and you can go from a 45 win 6th seed to a 10th seed. Just because one league did something doesn't mean the NBA will. NHL has different challenges in particular markets and viewership, the fee structure reflects that. NBA is different.
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Jun 6, 2023 17:30
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Lockback posted:They don't want the expansion team to be a winner in the first couple of years. The team will have enough buzz being new. The expansion draft also isn't how they fill out their roster, having 100m+ in cap space and free agency is. They'll get a few decent players in free agency, get a bunch of fringe rotation guys in the draft, and be a 20 win team with a good draft pick that year Why wouldn't the league want a new team to be successful, up to and including winning a chip? I'm surprised to hear they artificially hobbled the Bobcats, but is the rationale really "We don't want them stealing "existing" franchises' thunder?"
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Jun 6, 2023 17:39
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Why wouldn't the league want a new team to be successful, up to and including winning a chip? I'm surprised to hear they artificially hobbled the Bobcats, but is the rationale really "We don't want them stealing "existing" franchises' thunder?" Because the owners would not want to give up their marketable stars for free which is what you have to do to make an expansion team instantly good
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Jun 6, 2023 17:51
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Metapod posted:Because the owners would not want to give up their marketable stars for free which is what you have to do to make an expansion team instantly good I get the top-whatever protection, I meant the reduced salary cap.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:00
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:I get the top-whatever protection, I meant the reduced salary cap. So they can't sign FA and RFA to deals that other teams can't compete with and still be able to field a quality team with cheap replacements via the expansion draft.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:03
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Lockback posted:You keep comparing NHL and NBA. It's not at all the same in market and team construction. You can lose a good player in the NHL and be basically the same team. You lose a good player on an NBA roster and you can go from a 45 win 6th seed to a 10th seed. Just because one league did something doesn't mean the NBA will. NHL has different challenges in particular markets and viewership, the fee structure reflects that. NBA is different.  Metapod posted:Because the owners would not want to give up their marketable stars for free which is what you have to do to make an expansion team instantly good My wild guess earlier (nobody qualifying as a designated player, nobody on a rookie deal, 2 additional exemptions, only losing one) would essentially leave 1-2 starters and 2-3 rotation players exposed on each team. If doing that vs Top 8 is the difference between $2B each (a decent guess at Charlotte's impending sale price, higher than the Wolves sale) and $4B each, that's an additional $133m per owner. Which owners aren't sending a private jet to take their 4th starter to Seattle/Vegas for $133 million?
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Jun 6, 2023 18:22
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Paracaidas posted:There is a wide rear end gulf between "marketable stars" and "Nobody from a team's rotation unless it's a dogshit contract". I was answering the question of why the nba would not want a new team to be championship/deep playoff run caliber. I do think you're underselling how few players there are in the nba and how taking any good players undercuts the years of work good teams have done
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Jun 6, 2023 18:34
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Why wouldn't the league want a new team to be successful, up to and including winning a chip? I'm surprised to hear they artificially hobbled the Bobcats, but is the rationale really "We don't want them stealing "existing" franchises' thunder?" They had no problem with Thunder stealing an existing franchise
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Jun 6, 2023 18:51
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Why wouldn't the league want a new team to be successful, up to and including winning a chip? I'm surprised to hear they artificially hobbled the Bobcats, but is the rationale really "We don't want them stealing "existing" franchises' thunder?" "The League" is the owners. So if you just spent money and years laying down a contending push or even just a playoff push, you don't want to see some other team come and do better than you by taking some of your players. Celtics would be kneecapped if Derrick White or Brogdan or someone was taken. The owners aren't going to want to do that. Paracaidas posted:
That's absolutely insane.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:55
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It’s really hard to get that salary slot for the fourth paid player once you lose it (See: Lakers, Brooklyn, Suns). So I think teams would be likely to try and hold on to it, especially given the potential lack of tools for acquiring players if the new CBA really is as restrictive as some reporters think.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:55
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Rick posted:It’s really hard to get that salary slot for the fourth paid player once you lose it (See: Lakers, Brooklyn, Suns). So I think teams would be likely to try and hold on to it, especially given the potential lack of tools for acquiring players if the new CBA really is as restrictive as some reporters think. For a team trying to make a push sure, but for teams with cap space that slot doesn't do you much good. For instance, if it was this year I could see Hayward being made available or an injury risk guy like Isaac.
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Jun 6, 2023 19:05
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I have yet to see any analysis of the bulls' possibilities this offseason other than "utterly hosed"
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Jun 6, 2023 19:09
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Lockback posted:For a team trying to make a push sure, but for teams with cap space that slot doesn't do you much good. For instance, if it was this year I could see Hayward being made available or an injury risk guy like Isaac. That is true. And you're right that Hayward would almost surely be left open. There were rumors they were trying to literally give him away at the trade deadline.
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Jun 6, 2023 19:54
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Lockback posted:Thats Milwaukee. It used to be a shorter drive for me to go to MIlwaukee than a 7pm Bulls game and I lived in Cook County. Chicago gridlock is a special sad thing
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Jun 6, 2023 19:54
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Metapod posted:That's nice of Ingram to his durability for the year on his country rather than his team https://twitter.com/nba_university/status/1665890934070861824?s=46&t=onxyh9cLuduaEE8VkMrnMQ Let’s get Keegan Murray in there on the bench imo
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Jun 6, 2023 19:59
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