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fatherboxx posted:Worse, he says that cars are freely moving on the street If a car floats majestically down the street does it count as moving? In this new boat state It can even go where other cars can't!
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Jun 6, 2023 15:49
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cr0y posted:Oh my God this can't be real Why do people keep saying this?
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Jun 6, 2023 15:50
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"Local Residents" are unfortunately insanely bad at identifying what sounds are. 'Blasts' could easily just be the catastrophic but unintentional collapse of the drat.
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Jun 6, 2023 16:00
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A.o.D. posted:Why do people keep saying this? Cognitive dissonance between the stupidity being exhibited combined with "never underestimate the enemy".
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Jun 6, 2023 16:02
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Im willing to say it's possible the dam failed on its own, and during the failure, the generator building collapsed. If the generators were running at the time, you'd get... something. Plus the place was probably packed with demolition charges. So it's somewhat possible the dam just collapsed, and the generators exploded as the structure failed. So I'm between "just failed" or "Russians pressed button"
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Jun 6, 2023 16:02
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papasyhotcakes posted:If a car floats majestically down the street does it count as moving? In this new boat state It can even go where other cars can't! Thrust via wheel rotation
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Jun 6, 2023 16:02
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:"Local Residents" are unfortunately insanely bad at identifying what sounds are. 'Blasts' could easily just be the catastrophic but unintentional collapse of the drat. Yeah, see also Nextdoor and gunshot reports. In my personal experience, passengers will vastly overestimate how much a ship is rolling / listing. I’ve had people tell me we were rolling 30 degrees when the clinometer pegged at 2 degrees or so.
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Jun 6, 2023 16:10
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:"Local Residents" are unfortunately insanely bad at identifying what sounds are. 'Blasts' could easily just be the catastrophic but unintentional collapse of the drat. I think people in Kherson have a pretty good idea of what an explosion sounds like at this point.
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Jun 6, 2023 17:04
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:"Local Residents" are unfortunately insanely bad at identifying what sounds are. 'Blasts' could easily just be the catastrophic but unintentional collapse of the drat. Yeah anyone who’s ever read the initial witness reports from a mass shooting or any other chaotic event should know that witnesses are unreliable at best. Not many people have prior experience with the sound of a huge concrete structure breaking apart and being swept away by an immense rush of water waking them up in the middle of the night. I’d imagine it’s pretty loud though!
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Jun 6, 2023 17:12
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FrozenVent posted:Yeah, see also Nextdoor and gunshot reports. I've seen a fair angle, not sure exactly what angle but I went from seeing nothing but sea to the sky to the sea and back again, was kinda fun.
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Jun 6, 2023 17:13
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FrozenVent posted:Yeah, see also Nextdoor and gunshot reports. they were correct, but 28% of that was booze 
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Jun 6, 2023 17:16
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The time lapse photos of the roadway washing away in the last few days, and the high water level seem like strong indicators that this really was just a structural collapse resulting from colossal mismanagement and prior damage. Incredible.
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Jun 6, 2023 17:39
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:The time lapse photos of the roadway washing away in the last few days, and the high water level seem like strong indicators that this really was just a structural collapse resulting from colossal mismanagement and prior damage. Incredible. Which doesn't really exonerate the Russians, just means that they're dangerously negligent in every area they've occupied and sooner or later their fuckups are going to get even worse. Doesn't this also endanger coolant water for the ZNPP?
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Jun 6, 2023 17:43
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Didn't see this posted but apparently a European intelligence agency discovered a plot by Ukraine to blow up the Nordstream prior to it actually blowing up last fall and passed it on to the CIA. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/
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Jun 6, 2023 17:44
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PurpleXVI posted:Which doesn't really exonerate the Russians, just means that they're dangerously negligent in every area they've occupied and sooner or later their fuckups are going to get even worse. Doesn't this also endanger coolant water for the ZNPP? No, the ZNPP should be fine. The plant has been in cold shutdown for months and needs very little water. The river itself is not going away and should be able to supply all they need.
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Jun 6, 2023 17:50
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Deteriorata posted:No, the ZNPP should be fine. The plant has been in cold shutdown for months and needs very little water. The river itself is not going away and should be able to supply all they need. Minor derail- why do nuclear plants need an endless supply of cold water? Isn't that heat supposed to go towards spinning turbines and then to cooling towers?
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Jun 6, 2023 17:52
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cr0y posted:Minor derail- why do nuclear plants need an endless supply of cold water? Isn't that heat supposed to go towards spinning turbines and then to cooling towers? Well, for the ZNPP specifically, the reactors are shut down. No or very little heat is going to generating electricity. However, even a completely shut down reactor has heat generated by the fuel which must be cooled; the fuel ponds at many nuclear plants have the same problem. In operating plants, you always want surplus heat and not a heat deficit; you can always cool off surplus heat but a heat deficit means you aren't generating enough power. Edit: It should be noted ZNPP is a closed loop system so it doesnt actually need an endless supply of cold water like an open system would. It does need a large body of water to exchange heat with though. Fortunately, this doesnt look like its gonna be an incredibly urgent problem, as it has its own pond separated by a berm from the reservoir. I don't think that sort of thing works in the long term, but its a lot better in the short term than the alternatives. IANA nuclear scientist. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 17:58
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cr0y posted:Minor derail- why do nuclear plants need an endless supply of cold water? Isn't that heat supposed to go towards spinning turbines and then to cooling towers? If I understand correctly, and my knowledge of nuclear physics is very bad, the nuclear fuel is always burning whether we want it to or not. Thus the need for cooling.
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Jun 6, 2023 17:58
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Heat is also ill-mannered and loves to go everywhere it can. You can't channel 100% of your generated heat into power production, some of it's always going to end up potentially endangering components or people and needing to be channelled away by coolant, while you need heat for your plant to function, you don't want so much heat parts of your plant are melting.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:04
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:The time lapse photos of the roadway washing away in the last few days, and the high water level seem like strong indicators that this really was just a structural collapse resulting from colossal mismanagement and prior damage. Incredible. Eh, if you have a engineering analysis or even a good suspicion that the dam is likely to fail if the water level gets too high and then you let the water level get too high and it collapses then that’s still intended. Were those loud noises in the middle of the night dam breaking on its own or it being broken also isn’t something you shrug off when the act of it breaking has significant benefits for the team in control of the dam.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:05
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PurpleXVI posted:Which doesn't really exonerate the Russians, just means that they're dangerously negligent in every area they've occupied and sooner or later their fuckups are going to get even worse. Doesn't this also endanger coolant water for the ZNPP? Oh yeah, this is a colossal gently caress up on their part. Not on the same immediate level, but probably comparable to their failure to execute the initial assault on Kyiv properly. They've wrecked the water supply to the crown jewel of the invasions, and god knows how much time and treasure is going to be lost on their side of the river.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:17
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I *want* to say Russia wouldn't voluntarily deprive Crimea of a source of water but that's contingent on so many assumptions Russia has been working day in and day out to dispel that I can't in good faith say it's real.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:18
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Murgos posted:Eh, if you have a engineering analysis or even a good suspicion that the dam is likely to fail if the water level gets too high and then you let the water level get too high and it collapses then that’s still intended. The dam breaching has immeasurable downsides for both parties to the war. By all accounts the Russian front defence line is already gone. Crimea and to a lesser extent Moscow are going to feel this directly. I'm not sure you could reasonably describe anyone as having a significantly meaningful benefit from this.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:30
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PurpleXVI posted:https://twitter.com/maxfras/status/1666079339178500100 I think we finally found the successor to Baghdad Bob
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Jun 6, 2023 18:31
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cr0y posted:Minor derail- why do nuclear plants need an endless supply of cold water? Isn't that heat supposed to go towards spinning turbines and then to cooling towers? Cooling towers (the kind typically found in nuclear power plants, at least) do their cooling by evaporating a shitload of water -- that's the steam you see coming off the top. As I understand it, this water usually isn't the actual reactor coolant itself (which is in a closed loop), but a separate open-cycle system that cools the coolant via heat exchangers. And so running out of water to flash to steam would be bad, from a heat-dissipation standpoint.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:35
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Tiny Timbs posted:I think we finally found the successor to Baghdad Bob He needs a catchy name. Floodwater Fred?
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Jun 6, 2023 18:47
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 Here's an image I shamelessly stole from Wikipedia. TLDR; Decay Heat is roughly 6.5% of whatever your plant was stably running at. So, if your power plant was running 6 reactors at 3 GW each, you would need to be able to remove (6*3000*0.065) 1.17 GW of heat immediately after shutdown, with that requirement dropping per the displayed graph. If the same plant was at 50%, you would need to remove (1.17*0.5) 585 MW of heat, and if your plant was shutdown long enough, like ZNPP supposedly was, that number should be low enough that you'll be fine. Spent fuel is a different beast and outside my knowledge base, so not sure what to do about that.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:50
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:The dam breaching has immeasurable downsides for both parties to the war. By all accounts the Russian front defence line is already gone. Crimea and to a lesser extent Moscow are going to feel this directly. I'm not sure you could reasonably describe anyone as having a significantly meaningful benefit from this. Yeah and I don’t think it really changes their defensive dispositions very much either as concerns any Ukrainian offensive. The dam collapse changes the lower Dniepr from a 2000’ wide water obstacle with 1.5 miles of marsh on the other side forming an obstacle it was likely impossible for Ukraine to cross in force into a 2 mile wide water obstacle it is likely impossible for Ukraine to cross in force. E: welp maybe I’m wrong and Russia would gently caress it’s own water supply to turn a practically impassible obstacle into a more impassable obstacle: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1666130934373003279 Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 18:57
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Yeah ZNPP has enough water in its on prem coolant pool to keep the cold reactors cold and feed the spent fuel pools. It should be fine barring any Russian dumbassery.
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Jun 6, 2023 18:57
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Lovely Joe Stalin posted:The dam breaching has immeasurable downsides for both parties to the war. By all accounts the Russian front defence line is already gone. Crimea and to a lesser extent Moscow are going to feel this directly. I'm not sure you could reasonably describe anyone as having a significantly meaningful benefit from this. You could say the same thing about the war, but there is no doubt that Russia is responsible
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Jun 6, 2023 18:58
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CommieGIR posted:It should be fine barring any Russian dumbassery. Well we're all hosed then
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Jun 6, 2023 19:15
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah ZNPP has enough water in its on prem coolant pool to keep the cold reactors cold and feed the spent fuel pools. It should be fine barring any Russian dumbassery. If UKR starts advancing in the area I wouldn't put it past them to blow that too.
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Jun 6, 2023 19:15
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:If UKR starts advancing in the area I wouldn't put it past them to blow that too. me too, but please step away from the lathe of heaven.
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Jun 6, 2023 19:27
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:If UKR starts advancing in the area I wouldn't put it past them to blow that too. I kind of doubt it. Russia is insane, but blowing up a nuclear plant would likely garner even more international outrage for obvious reasons. I kind of hope its just a threat like their constant threats about using nuclear weapons.
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Jun 6, 2023 19:29
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CommieGIR posted:I kind of doubt it. Russia is insane, but blowing up a nuclear plant would likely garner even more international outrage for obvious reasons. I kind of hope its just a threat like their constant threats about using nuclear weapons. yeah, to be clearer, I don't think it's likely, I just don't want to confidently assert they definitely won't do that. I think I made that mistake with them digging positions in the Red Forest. fool me once by doing something so impossibly stupid I thought it unthinkable, shame on, uh, ... some, ... someone should be ashamed. 
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Jun 6, 2023 19:34
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Extremely specific and very peculiarly timed change of Russian law https://www.garant.ru/news/1628124/ (credit to paladinus for finding that one) Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jun 6, 2023 |
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Jun 6, 2023 20:13
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Extremely specific and very peculiarly timed change of Russian law Not gonna click on any urls ending in .ru, what’s the summary?
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Jun 6, 2023 20:42
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Jun 6, 2023 20:48
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I didn't do it, goddamnit, but I'm going to make some rules so I don't do it again.
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Jun 6, 2023 20:54
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Cannon_Fodder posted:I didn't do it, goddamnit, but I'm going to make some rules so I don't do it again. Rather, as I read it, the rules are that "IF you happen to make a little fucky wucky or ooopsie-woopsie with any dams in the occupied territories, for the next few years we won't give a gently caress, lmao."
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Jun 6, 2023 21:03
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