|
The CNN:Fox paradigm is like a perfect metaphorical parallel to the Dem:GOP relationship, with equally pissening results. Turns out the inhuman logic of capital accumulation inevitably leads to dehumanizing and awful outcomes, whodathunk
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 15:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:CNN’s problem is that if you want to tack to the right and get right-wing viewers, it’s just not going to work because they will just go to Fox or Newsmax who are more willing to not give a poo poo about their reputations and just spew propaganda all day. CNN has still been trying to pretend that they are a ‘news outlet’ when their owners want them to just be Fox now. The problem seems to be that Licht honestly bought his own rhetoric. In his own mind, he wasn't trying to make CNN a right-wing propaganda network, he was just trying to eliminate liberal bias and get CNN back to reporting just the cold hard truth. Except that he considered his own personal positions to be the absolute center. Anything to the left of his personal politics was liberal bias regardless of whether it was backed up by facts and sources, and everything to the right of his personal politics was underreported perspectives worth covering and considering. And of course, while he'll describe himself as an independent if asked about his personal politics, every individual political position he's expressed has been conservative. Just in that Atlantic article alone, he thought CNN was exaggerating the COVID pandemic to juice the ratings with a fake crisis, he thinks the media is too busy "virtue signaling" to ask the tough questions about trans issues, and that "defund the police" was exclusively backed by wealthy urban elites who didn't understand how poor people felt about crime and safety. But he's consistently acted as though he's absolutely convinced that he's a moderate centrist, and that the problem is that the non-Fox media was too left-wing. That's why he thought he could compete with Fox News. He wasn't going to be a hysterical propaganda outlet like Fox was, he was just going to report the hard truths and the tough questions and not shy away from reporting both sides of issues. Or so he thought, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:08
|
|
|
I'm in a hospital waiting for my dad to go into surgery and they have loving newsmax playing in the waiting room. It's not even on mute so I have to sit here and listen to the anchor loudly complain about LGBTQ people. What the gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:14
|
|
|
Judgy Fucker posted:I don't really know what to say to this other than "no, it doesn't," or, more charitably, "it's more complicated than the cursory review both the theor(ies) and criticisms of them are given in that article." I linked a Wikipedia article that's a brief summary of an entire school of thought in response to Main Paineframe's bewilderment at the idea a defensive alliance might be seen as a security threat to other state actors to show that some Very Smart PeopleTM have written about the idea. I read Mearsheimer and Waltz in grad school and didn't think that a Wikipedia page would be tediously nitpicked to death in an attempt to discredit the idea--it was presented more as "here's a launching point for reading about this idea" and not "read this wiki article and be enlightened to the mysteries of the universe"-- but obviously that was very dumb of me. In any event this is getting further afield from US current events, I'd be open to discussing it further should an appropriate venue be established. Edit: After a PM I realize this post wasn't intended to be as dismissive/insulting as I took it, I agree this derail is tedious and we should move on Jarmak fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jun 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:15
|
|
|
TheDeadlyShoe posted:Personal finances work fundamentally differently than government budgets and central banks, in ways those lacking experience with the latter don't understand. But people making excuses to do poo poo they wanted to do anyway scales up and down pretty straightforwardly. 'They deserved it because they didn't do enough to avoid it' works entirely on the same logic whether the victim is a person or a country. To say "the Ukrainian state failed to effectively navigate Russian aggression, and Ukrainians suffered as a result" is not to say the Ukrainian state deserved Russian aggression or that Russian aggression isn't a problem. And it's not any kind of moral claim. It might be incorrect but it's not a statement that the problems faced by the Ukrainian state are fine or cool or all the Ukrainian state's fault. The task of a state should be to deal with problems it's not responsible for causing. If it only solves problems it caused, what's the point? When it's not effectively dealing with a problem, that's cause for concern and discussion among the people who are victims of the state's failure. I grew up being taught that Neville Chamberlain totally bungled the UK's response to Naziism and demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work. It never carried the implication the UK/Europe deserved Nazi aggression or that Nazi Germany wasn't responsible for WWII. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Jun 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:24
|
|
|
KillHour posted:I'm in a hospital waiting for my dad to go into surgery and they have loving newsmax playing in the waiting room. It's not even on mute so I have to sit here and listen to the anchor loudly complain about LGBTQ people. What the gently caress. Tell them to turn that poo poo off.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:24
|
|
|
I think it's hilarious how CNN offers no way to watch their channel outside of a cable subscription and they are wondering why their ratings are tanking? Regardless of how their content has changed recently, it doesn't matter because cable is strictly the domain of boomers now and boomers hate CNN and flock to right wing crazy poo poo like fox and OAN etc. Until CNN gets with the times and offers a real streaming service they are going to struggle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:27
|
|
|
CNN offering a streaming service that didn’t have CNN will never stop being funny to me. There is so much about how terrible the streaming industry currently is wrapped up in that fact.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:28
|
|
|
Failed Imagineer posted:Tell them to turn that poo poo off. There's nobody here except patients. I'm standing in the hallway instead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:30
|
|
|
KillHour posted:There's nobody here except patients. I'm standing in the hallway instead. Access to switch on TV or at the wall?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:31
|
|
|
Failed Imagineer posted:Access to switch on TV or at the wall? I'd rather not get yelled at by all the boomers staring slack jawed at it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:33
|
|
|
KillHour posted:I'd rather not get yelled at by all the boomers staring slack jawed at it. Understandable, I'd probably be the same. But this is how the chuds win I guess. Anyway, best of luck to your dad
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:34
|
|
|
KillHour posted:There's nobody here except patients. I'm standing in the hallway instead. Turn it off or change the channel yourself. Seize the means of consumption. Oh, you don't want to. Nevermind.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:36
|
|
|
Judgy Fucker posted:Turn it off or change the channel yourself. Seize the means of consumption. My friend, I've been here for almost 4 hours and I'm exhausted and I just want to go eat something but I can't because my mom won't leave until she gets to talk to the surgeon and he's probably hiding from her because she's a literal Karen. I already had to sit through the morning prayer over the loudspeakers because we live in a country where getting healthcare is somehow deeply connected to the Catholic Church.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:38
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:To say "the Ukrainian state failed to effectively navigate Russian aggression, and Ukrainians suffered as a result" is not to say the Ukrainian state deserved Russian aggression or that Russian aggression isn't a problem. And it's not any kind of moral claim. It might be incorrect but it's not a statement that the problems faced by the Ukrainian state are fine or cool or all the Ukrainian state's fault. Have you ever been taught that Czechoslovakia or Poland bungled their response to Nazism? How about Austria? Appeasement is cited so often because it wasn't a threat to Britain itself, which was a major power with a considerable military and terrain that made it practically impossible to invade. Those hurt by it were the smaller countries that didn't have the military power to resist Germany and depended on defensive alliances with other powers to counteract the German threat, only to be thrown under the bus because the British and French weren't actually ready to back up those commitments they'd made. Appeasement was a betrayal of their allies in hopes that feeding those allies to the Nazis would be enough to attain peace or at least buy some time. In terms of the current conversation, though, there are much better comparisons to make. Would you say that the Anglo-Polish defensive alliance made Nazi Germany feel threatened and provoked the invasion that followed? Because that's very similar to the argument that's being made right now about Ukraine and NATO.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:48
|
|
|
Charliegrs posted:I think it's hilarious how CNN offers no way to watch their channel outside of a cable subscription and they are wondering why their ratings are tanking? Regardless of how their content has changed recently, it doesn't matter because cable is strictly the domain of boomers now and boomers hate CNN and flock to right wing crazy poo poo like fox and OAN etc. Until CNN gets with the times and offers a real streaming service they are going to struggle. Top-rated cable-news shows for the non-boomer demographic of ages 25-54 for last month, according to Ad Week: MAY'23 FINAL (05/01/23-05/26/23) Ranked On: HH HH P2+ A25-54 RANK NETWORK PROGRAM NAME COV AA% AA (000) AA (000) AA (000) #Tlc 1 FOXN FIVE, THE 2.9 2101 2627 276 19 2 FOXN GUTFELD! 1.8 1317 1651 224 18 3 FOXN JESSE WATTERS PRIMETIME 2.3 1700 2137 194 14 4 FOXN SPECIAL RPT W/BRET BAIER 2 1453 1813 187 19 5 FOXN HANNITY 2.1 1522 1914 178 15 6 FOXN INGRAHAM ANGLE, THE 1.8 1270 1578 177 15 7 FOXN OUTNUMBERED 1.6 1194 1416 173 19 8 FOXN FAULKNER FOCUS, THE 1.6 1136 1339 166 19 9 FOXN AMERICAS NEWSROOM 1.6 1190 1398 158 38 10 FOXN FOX NEWS TONIGHT 1.7 1211 1515 151 19 11 MSNB ALL IN W/ CHRIS HAYES 1.5 1075 1302 147 18 12 MSNB BEAT W/ARI MELBER 1.6 1135 1386 146 21 13 MSNB DEADLINE:WHITE HOUSE 1.7 1192 1421 144 20 13 FOXN FOX AND FRIENDS 1.3 936 1080 144 57 15 MSNB ALEX WAGNER TONIGHT 1.6 1118 1344 142 15 16 MSNB REIDOUT 1.4 961 1169 140 19 16 FOXN AMERICA REPORTS 1.4 985 1157 140 38 18 MSNB LAST WORD W/ L. ODONNELL 1.7 1236 1485 138 19 18 CNN ANDERSON COOPER 360 0.8 539 646 138 23 20 FOXN STORY, THE 1.3 965 1125 135 19 21 FOXN YOUR WORLD W/NEIL CAVUTO 1.3 976 1148 134 19 22 CNN ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT 0.7 504 599 126 20 23 FOXN FOX NEWS AT NIGHT 1 709 845 125 19 24 CNN SITUATION ROOM 0.7 466 563 117 21 25 CNN CNN PRIMETIME 0.5 376 453 112 15 26 MSNB MORNING JOE 1.1 814 926 111 40 27 MSNB 11TH HOUR W/ S. RUHLE 1.2 815 941 110 20 28 CNN LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER 0.7 486 584 103 39 29 CNN INSIDE POLITICS 0.6 444 524 100 20 30 CNN CNN NEWS CENTRAL 0.6 423 498 98 120 31 MSNB KATY TUR REPORTS 1 701 829 97 20 32 MSNB ANA CABRERA REPORTS 0.9 614 715 88 20 32 CNN CNN TONIGHT 0.4 291 353 88 34 34 MSNB CHRIS JANSING REPORTS 0.8 562 665 83 22 35 MSNB JOSE DIAZ-BALART REPORTS 0.7 528 623 82 20 36 CNN CNN THIS MORNING 0.4 309 358 78 60 37 MSNB ANDREA MITCHELL REPORTS 0.8 548 642 74 20 38 FOXN FOX & FRIENDS FIRST 0.5 393 433 64 38 39 NMX ERIC BOLLING THE BALANCE 0.8 374 470 50 20 40 CNN EARLY START 0.2 178 206 49 19 41 FBN COPS 0.2 125 165 47 23 42 MSNB WAY TOO EARLY 0.4 311 330 45 19 43 CNBC SQUAWK ON THE STREET 0.2 157 197 44 20 44 CNBC FAST MONEY HALFTIME RPRT 0.3 166 213 42 20 44 NMX GREG KELLY REPORTS 0.5 258 320 42 20 46 NMX ROB SCHMITT TONIGHT 0.7 336 421 40 20 47 CNN CNN NEWSROOM LIVE 0.2 172 193 37 19 47 CNBC EXCHANGE, THE 0.2 134 169 37 20 47 CNBC POWER LUNCH 0.2 138 173 37 20 47 CNBC CLOSING BELL 0.2 142 179 37 40 51 CNBC FAST MONEY 0.2 123 158 35 20 52 NMX CHRIS PLANTE RIGHT SQUAD 0.5 250 306 33 15 53 NMX CARL HIGBIE FRONTLINE 0.5 231 269 30 20 53 NMX CHRIS SALCEDO SHOW, THE 0.5 237 274 30 20 55 NMX RECORD WITH GRETA VAN SUS 0.5 244 292 29 20 56 CNBC MAD MONEY 0.2 98 129 26 18 56 CNBC SQUAWK BOX 0.1 90 110 26 20 58 NMX NATIONAL REPORT 0.4 209 241 25 20 59 NMX AMERICAN AGENDA 0.4 186 219 24 20 60 NMX WAKE UP AMERICA 0.3 161 189 23 20 61 NMX JOHN BACHMAN NOW 0.4 182 208 22 20 62 CNBC LAST CALL 0.1 62 79 19 20 63 HLN CNN/CNN THIS MORNING 0.1 63 74 18 60 64 FBN VARNEY & COMPANY 0.3 199 245 15 60 65 FBN KUDLOW 0.3 207 260 13 19 65 FBN MORNINGS WITH M.BARTIROMO 0.1 98 110 13 60 67 FBN BIG MONEY SHOW, THE 0.2 109 132 12 19 67 FBN BOTTOM LINE, THE 0.2 107 136 12 20 67 FBN CAVUTO COAST TO COAST 0.2 128 152 12 20 70 FBN MAKING MONEY W/C.PAYNE 0.2 115 143 11 20 71 FBN KENNEDY 0.1 63 81 9 16 71 FBN EVENING EDIT, THE 0.2 129 160 9 19 71 CNBC WORLDWIDE EXCHANGE 0.1 33 41 9 19 71 FBN CLAMAN COUNTDOWN, THE 0.2 126 158 9 20 75 CNBC STREET SIGNS 0 29 35 6 19
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:50
|
|
|
KillHour posted:I'm in a hospital waiting for my dad to go into surgery and they have loving newsmax playing in the waiting room. It's not even on mute so I have to sit here and listen to the anchor loudly complain about LGBTQ people. What the gently caress. Unplug the TV.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:54
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:CNN’s problem is that if you want to tack to the right and get right-wing viewers, it’s just not going to work because they will just go to Fox or Newsmax who are more willing to not give a poo poo about their reputations and just spew propaganda all day. Failed Imagineer posted:The CNN:Fox paradigm is like a perfect metaphorical parallel to the Dem:GOP relationship, with equally pissening results. Civilized Fishbot posted:To say "the Ukrainian state failed to effectively navigate Russian aggression, and Ukrainians suffered as a result" is not to say the Ukrainian state deserved Russian aggression
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 16:59
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Have you ever been taught that Czechoslovakia or Poland bungled their response to Nazism? How about Austria? quote:Appeasement is cited so often because it wasn't a threat to Britain itself, which was a major power with a considerable military and terrain that made it practically impossible to invade. quote:Would you say that the Anglo-Polish defensive alliance made Nazi Germany feel threatened and provoked the invasion that followed? No, and it doesn't sound true, I think Nazi ideology made invasion inevitable regardless of what other countries did. But if someone says "there is an action the Polish state could have taken to better protect itself from the Nazis and it didn't take that action," then that's not a defense of the Nazis, and it might be an important contribution to the study of how we protect ourselves from Nazis and aggressive states, which is unfortunately something we still need to understand. I really don't see a contradiction between "the Ukrainian state made significant errors in responding to Russian aggression, to the detriment of the Ukrainian people" and "the Russian state is responsible for Russian aggression." It seems like the underlying idea here is "people are really stupid so if you point out say that the Ukrainian state handled this crisis wrong then everyone will forget or forgive that the Russian state caused the crisis in the first place" and I think that's more than fair when we're talking about interpersonal violence but when it comes to tens-of-millions-of-lives-and-deaths geopolitics we just have an obligation not to be stupid in that way, we have to be pretty coldly rational about fixing whatever's broken and in our control. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Jun 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:04
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:
I think the problem that I, and many people, have with statements like "the Ukrainian state made significant errors in responding to Russian aggression, to the detriment of the Ukrainian people" is that when you dig into what they could have done better its always seems to be "give Russia what they want". So it's hard to view that stance as being orthogonal to Russia apologia. Edit: To clarify, "give Russia what they want" isn't said directly. But its usually something along the lines that its unreasonable for small states like Ukraine to have self-determination and that they should be governing in a way to appease Russia. But governing in a way to align with the EU/NATO is unacceptable despite being mostly the same thing, just with a different set of world powers. It starts getting *really* hard to see it as anything other than being anti-west, pro-Russia. ryde fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jun 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:10
|
|
|
Sure, in the same way that other criticisms, in their broad forms, could be considered potentially useful, relevant, or true. The problem is the people criticizing Ukraine, when they stop being weirdly vague about it, tend to revert to Russian apologia when pushed for specifics, which means people have been trained to see Ukrainian criticism as a smokescreen for Russian apologia - at this point it is a genuinely reasonable belief and the onus is on the Ukrainian critics to be specific and explain things in a way that isn't if they want to be taken seriously. Russian apologists have basically poisoned the well for honest criticism with good intent. Unfortunately this is true of a great many topics in current political discourse... GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jun 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:15
|
|
|
ryde posted:I think the problem that I, and many people, have with statements like "the Ukrainian state made significant errors in responding to Russian aggression, to the detriment of the Ukrainian people" is that when you dig into what they could have done better its always seems to be "give Russia what they want". Sometimes just giving Russia everything they want. So it's hard to view that stance as being orthogonal to Russia apologia. I've been told many many times that the best way to handle a mugging is to give the mugger whatever they want unless it's traveling to another location with them. I don't think that's apologia for muggers, I think it's life-saving advice obtained from a coldly logical analysis of what happens when people respond to muggings in different ways. I get the idea that the vast majority of criticism toward the Ukrainian state is stupid or unrealistic, but then we can just say it's stupid and unrealistic. "Victim blaming" is just not a good lens through which to understand statecraft - the analogy to interpersonal violence is emotionally inflammatory and obscures that the state's ratio of responsibilities to rights is the polar opposite of a person's. I personally don't have any criticism for the Ukrainian state, I just really don't like the idea that a government should be held above scrutiny for its response to a problem because of the suffering of its citizens or because someone else caused the problem. Like when the US government's response to the Deepwater Horizon oil spill - both the spill itself and the well-documented safety issues which led to the spill - was dramatically inadequate. Calling that out wasn't an implicit defense of BP, it wasn't "victim blaming", it was just necessary for any serious conversation about protecting our oceans. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jun 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:19
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:CNN’s problem is that if you want to tack to the right and get right-wing viewers, it’s just not going to work because they will just go to Fox or Newsmax who are more willing to not give a poo poo about their reputations and just spew propaganda all day. CNN has still been trying to pretend that they are a ‘news outlet’ when their owners want them to just be Fox now. CNN's other problem is that it hasn't tried to adapt since its inception in anyways that make sense. They could of been the serious journalism network but chased partisan rating, tried to spice it up, and then didn't adapt to the new consumption models that were coming up. In my opinion anyways.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:21
|
|
|
Re: the Trump town hall, we should remember that its terrible ratings were not just bad for CNN, but also both a bad sign and probably very personally upsetting to Trump, who brags about every high-rated TV event he ever does. Willa Rogers posted:Top-rated cable-news shows for the non-boomer demographic of ages 25-54 for last month, https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/532219-2/532219/ Here is a recent story from AdWeek (same source.) It appears that MSNBC’s ratings are up from last year, and Fox’s are down, and MSNBC is pretty close now. quote:FNC averaged 1.36 million total primetime viewers (No. 2 among all basic cable networks) and 1.01 million total day viewers (No. 1 among all basic cable networks), to go with 130,000 adults 25-54 in primetime (tied for No. 16 w/ Paramount Network) and 117,000 adults 25-54 in total day (No. 5 among all basic cablers). So MSNBC is getting 88% of Fox’s prime time viewership and 71% of its daytime viewership. For those daytime numbers, consider that Fox News is the default doctor’s office/restaurant/bar programming in half the country but pretty much nobody uses MSNBC that way. (I’ve seen CNN in that context much more.) And right now if you combine MSNBC and CNN’s ratings, they beat Fox’s easily. If you include Newsmax and OAN, it gets close, but I think non-chud still wins out overall. This is happening with a Democratic president, when Republicans should have the most outrage bait bringing them Fox possible, and liberals are supposed to be hitting the snooze without the orange man scaring them. Fox also had another $800 million (at least) legal bill coming up pretty soon. I would not want to be
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:25
|
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:Re: the Trump town hall, we should remember that its terrible ratings were not just bad for CNN, but also both a bad sign and probably very personally upsetting to Trump, who brags about every high-rated TV event he ever does. This is where Biden being the most boring President in decades is hurting the GOP, they can’t rally anyone except the most ardent chuds against him. I’m not saying Biden is good, just effective at muting outrage.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:39
|
|
|
My point was that it was glib to write off rightwing cable-news viewers as boomers, when FoxNews is the leading cable-news network among 25-54 year olds. Of course boomers constitute the majority of cable-news watchers, but that's among all the networks, and there's no evidence that it's exclusively "boomers hate CNN and flock to right wing crazy poo poo like fox and OAN etc." disproportionately than flock to crazy poo poo like MSNBC, or compared to the percentage of non-boomers who flock to crazy poo poo like Fox News. eta: Here's are stats from last August reinforcing the Ad Week numbers for top shows among that demographic last month: quote:Fox News continued its streak as the number one network in all of cable news August, notably dominating the key 25-54 age demographic with 15 of the 20 top shows. etaa: Ad Week on April 2023: quote:Fox News Channel: Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jun 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:45
|
|
|
The New York Times posted:Mr. Licht’s departure represents a dramatic fall not long after he departed as an executive producer of Stephen Colbert’s top-rated late night show Wait, what? A guy who ran Colbert's show tried to Trumpify CNN? What. Have I had a stroke?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:47
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:I grew up being taught that Neville Chamberlain totally bungled the UK's response to Naziism and demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work. It never carried the implication the UK/Europe deserved Nazi aggression or that Nazi Germany wasn't responsible for WWII. It isn’t as simple as we were told. Even while Chamberlain was signing the Munich Agreement, he was agreeing a huge increase in spending to increase Britain's armament in preparation for war. The agreement bought Britain time to prepare for a war they knew was coming, independent of Chamberlain’s hope that Hitler would honor the agreement.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:51
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:My point was that it was glib to write off rightwing cable-news viewers as boomers, when FoxNews' is the leading cable-news network among 25-54 year olds. (Nice false equivalency between MSNBC and Fox/OAN there, btw. “It’s all just crazy poo poo!” C’mon.) I think most of the answer to the prime demo ratings is that liberals in that age group have less interest in cable news than their Republican counterparts. Which makes sense when you consider that nearly all non-news programming contains content that is anathema to conservatives (tolerance, generosity, egalitarianism, anti-racism, etc), so sometimes Fox feels like a “safe space” for them if there’s no Tom Selleck cop shows on. I mean people in their 20s and 30s are voting overwhelmingly Democratic regardless of the TV ratings. Maybe Trump will use the ratings as evidence for the ‘24 election being stolen from him 
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:55
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:I grew up being taught that Neville Chamberlain totally bungled the UK's response to Naziism and demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work. It never carried the implication the UK/Europe deserved Nazi aggression or that Nazi Germany wasn't responsible for WWII. I grew up being taught all sorts of lost causer poo poo about the US Civil War. Did you question any of it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:55
|
|
|
Travic posted:Wait, what? A guy who ran Colbert's show tried to Trumpify CNN? What. Have I had a stroke? No that’s real. They did a big send off on Colbert when CNN picked him up. I watched it when and my brain is still confused by it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:57
|
|
|
I'm pointing out that Fox News is the top-rated cable-news network among 25-54 years old; nothing more, nothing less. It's no more a boomer magnet than MSNBC or CNN, and that's a fact, not a false equivalency. I've provided the data that says so, and looked back to prior years, and I have verified it with multiple sources.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 17:58
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:I'm pointing out that Fox News is the top-rated cable-news network among 25-54 years old; nothing more, nothing less. It's no more a boomer magnet than MSNBC or CNN, and that's a fact, not a false equivalency. What percentage of 25-54 year olds watch any cable news at all vs what percentage of boomers still watch cable news regularly? Being the top rated news program among all left-handed teenagers doesn't matter much if there's only three left-handed teenagers in the whole country who watch cable news.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 18:03
|
|
|
Bar Ran Dun posted:No that’s real. They did a big send off on Colbert when CNN picked him up. But, what? I just don't even know what's real anymore. I think I'm having a mental breakdown.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 18:05
|
|
|
Travic posted:But, what? I just don't even know what's real anymore. I think I'm having a mental breakdown. The Atlantic piece explains it. Basically he had Big News Media Brain and thought he could pull Republican viewers back to CNN by just being "impartial" and showing "both sides fairly". Like how cocaine addicts always quit if you just let them have as much coffee as they want
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 18:08
|
|
|
Mellow Seas posted:Is this just about defending boomers? I care about election results more than TV ratings and Boomers are fuckin’ up. Although I do agree with your ongoing point that “generations” are just Eurocentric marketing bullshit. I’m any case, I think people still know Fox is a huge threat, but that doesn’t mean they can’t enjoy it scuffling a bit for the first time in its history. I would guess that any "ratings" analysis should probably have the broadcast times included as well and grouped accordingly.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 18:09
|
|
|
Travic posted:But, what? I just don't even know what's real anymore. I think I'm having a mental breakdown. *adds another tally* Money seems to always beat ideology, except when the ideologies are hateful ignorant bigot poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 18:10
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:In terms of the current conversation, though, there are much better comparisons to make. Would you say that the Anglo-Polish defensive alliance made Nazi Germany feel threatened and provoked the invasion that followed? Because that's very similar to the argument that's being made right now about Ukraine and NATO. A neat historical connection: the French-Soviet pact of 1935 was explicitly referenced by Hitler as the reason to remilitarize the Rhineland. And appeasement was such a disaster that it made the Soviets go with forging a pact with Germany instead, because after the Allies sold out Czechoslovakia, Russia had no reason to believe they wouldn't sell them out too. I think people are stuck on America (or more generally the West) being Good. "Why didn't the Soviets believe that the British Empire would keep its word?" "Why does Russia feel threatened that the Anti-Russia Alliance headed by its biggest rival is pressing up against its borders?" "Don't they understand we're the Good Guys?" Inshallah, Putin's government will soon collapse and I support Ukraine's fight for independence. But I keep getting a weird sense in these discussions of Russia and Russians being an Evil nation that does Evil, in like a cosmic or religious sense. We've had Cuba blockaded for 60 years, but see that's Different from Russia attacking the small countries near it when they move out of its sphere of influence.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 18:13
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:What percentage of 25-54 year olds watch any cable news at all vs what percentage of boomers still watch cable news regularly? As I've acknowledged, it's primarily older people who watch cable news. (eta: that includes xers as well as silents in addition to boomers) I've crunched the May nos. from Mediaite (clearer format than Ad Week), and MSNBC & Fox News have the same overall percentage of viewers <55 watching both day & night programming: Days: MSNBC: 12 percent CNN: 20 percent Fox News: 12 percent Primetime: MSNBC: 10 percent CNN: 23 percent Fox News: 10 percent So yes: Most cable-news watchers are overwhelmingly older than 54 but no: Fox News doesn't draw a disproportionate amount of older viewers when compared to MSNBC. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jun 7, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 18:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
Byzantine posted:And appeasement was such a disaster that it made the Soviets go with forging a pact with Germany instead, because after the Allies sold out Czechoslovakia, Russia had no reason to believe they wouldn't sell them out too. The real answer here is the same as it always was: the Allies' chief objection to an alliance with Stalin was the concern that he just wanted to have someone at his back while he annexed his neighbors. It turned out to be objectively correct because Stalin immediately picked Hitler as the ally to have at his back while he annexed his neighbors.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2023 18:18
|
|
