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Hughmoris posted:Those fake eyes are a bad implementation, and I don't see them lasting into the 2nd generation. there’s another perfect example of this sort of far-out feature being absolutely worthless and dropped from the product line that’s on the tip of my tongue, but I can’t quite pin it down. Could’ve been an Apple Watch or a Zune thing. I’ll think of it
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Jun 7, 2023 14:34
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The touchscreen bar on MacBook Pros? The thing about the eyes and glass is that it adds weight. Weight is the enemy. I can’t believe that people are calling this thing heavy, you’d think that’d be priority #1 for Apple
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Jun 7, 2023 14:55
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They still make touchbar Macbooks, mostly because they bought shitloads of the shells and people keep buying them.
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Jun 7, 2023 15:01
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(I really like the touch bars and wish my m1 MacBook Pro had one)
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Jun 7, 2023 15:10
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Turin Turambar posted:
facebook put beat saber on psvr2? huh!
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Jun 7, 2023 15:14
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They did. I kinda wish they get in exchange the Astrobot game.
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Jun 7, 2023 15:15
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KillHour posted:Everyone here hating it has made me convinced that this thing is going to be the next iPhone. What do you think "the content" is? It's games and pornography, and apple isn't going to do porn either. Next to nobody gives a gently caress about anything else in vr, and definitely not enough of a gently caress to put up with strapping poo poo to their face.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:19
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pun pundit posted:From this reply to the Twitter thread on the Apple HMD: Honestly I just can't get past the fact that a 30 year old wrote "I spent 10% of my life working on this" because they wanted it to sound more impressive than "I've been working on this for the last 3 years"
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Jun 7, 2023 16:24
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iphones would never have caught on without cell phone plan financing. expensive mobile vr headsets wont either
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Jun 7, 2023 16:27
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Irony.or.Death posted:What do you think "the content" is? It's games and pornography, and apple isn't going to do porn either. Next to nobody gives a gently caress about anything else in vr, and definitely not enough of a gently caress to put up with strapping poo poo to their face. I agree with you in that I feel that way personally, but Apple has taught me that there is a sizeable percentage of the population that I do not understand. Putting on a VR headset to remove yourself from a live event so you can rewatch it later is dumb as gently caress but like, have you been to a concert in the last decade? Nobody watches things with their eyes anymore, they look at it through their phone so they can post it to Instagram or whatever. Apple spent a poo poo ton of money on the market research to figure out what Apple consumers will use this for, and it's not going to be the things that get us nerds excited for VR. There's a reason the reveal wasn't positioning it as a platform for games.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:27
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KillHour posted:Apple spent a poo poo ton of money on the market research to figure out what Apple consumers will use this for they're going to put a chip in the headset that adds smiles to everyones faces via passthrough and maybe replaces homeless people with shrubs
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Jun 7, 2023 16:42
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:they're going to put a chip in the headset that adds smiles to everyones faces via passthrough and maybe replaces homeless people with shrubs If they make the external screen customisable with animal and/or anime eyes, they'll sell a bajillion of them.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:43
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No VR! Ok, I say, ok. As they have presented it, an AR device where you have a series of iThings floating in your view... The Apple Vision Pro opens up 'new' use cases that aren't really new, but they kinda are because now they will be realistic thanks to the higher resolution screen. Ie: using it to have multiple virtual monitors for work, reading text, similar stuff that isn't very good with current headsets. Let's say it does all equivalent of a MacBook or iPad Pro too. Video playback (2d/3d movies in a 100" virtual screen and vr180/360 video) is also possible in the current headsets, but it's could be than the higher resolution will enhance it enough that will start holding the attention of the mainstream public as a real option for entertainment. It's the main selling point of what they have shown: 2d windows floating in the air which can be very big, said windows can be a video player or a virtual screen or a big rear end iPad. The issues I see are... 1. The device itself doesn't seem small and light enough to watch a 2 hours and something movie without ending up with thinking that comfort factor isn't still where it should be for long sessions. Much less having a 6 hour work session. It's where I am with the Quest 2 + elite strap + battery on back, comforting enough to actually see a movie, but not enough to prefer it most of the time over the big tv option. From all the impressions of the demos, it seems most people say that the weight is still noticeable. Around 400 gms maybe? 2. Then you have the battery issue. It doesn't have even enough battery to watch a single long movie. So you will end up being even more tethered. 3. Then there is the price. For that price, following the work and watching movies examples, you can buy a big high end tv and two nice work monitors. And you still have some spare money. And a 4k per eye headset won't be equivalent to a 4k oled tv! A little detail that some people are not taking in account, I think. 4. And with a real, physical devices, you can share what you see easily in the office with a coworker, or share the tv with your family. And then there is the rest of what you can do with a computing device. Which... let's admit it, most of the time is web browsing for your average user. It's what I'm doing right now. The thing is, are you going to put the headset (with its very limited battery, with the communication issues it has for the people around, despite the front panel) on just to browse the web 20 minutes? wouldn't be easier and quicker to do it in your phone or tablet? You are going to have one closer to you (in your pocket maybe), It's easier to pick up and use quickly and drop it again, it has a longer battery, and fundamentally speaking you don't need what the headset brings for web browsing. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 16:49
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KillHour posted:I agree with you in that I feel that way personally, but Apple has taught me that there is a sizeable percentage of the population that I do not understand. Putting on a VR headset to remove yourself from a live event so you can rewatch it later is dumb as gently caress but like, have you been to a concert in the last decade? Nobody watches things with their eyes anymore, they look at it through their phone so they can post it to Instagram or whatever. Apple has floundered products before and they are certainly capable of doing it again. They aren't special.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:49
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Yeah just because they’re on a hot streak doesn’t mean they can’t fumble a bag.
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Jun 7, 2023 16:54
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by my calculations you can but 7 75 inch roku tvs from wal mart for the price of the headset. so if you really want screens all around your house id recommend that because roku tvs have software that can run on it
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Jun 7, 2023 16:58
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you can definitely buy a fuckhuge high end OLED tv + a really good sound bar or probably even a decent set of speakers for Ambient Spatial Audio(tm) equivalence for $3500
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Jun 7, 2023 17:09
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Al! posted:iphones would never have caught on without cell phone plan financing. expensive mobile vr headsets wont either for some reason i thought apple's weird "no-subsidy" thing with the iphone went on longer. nope, only the first one was listed for its "full" $499/599 price, the 3g immediately went to advertising the subsidized price (and a separate early-upgrade price and another separate no-contract price). the scare quotes are there because at&t was paying apple a portion of the plan prices for iphones i don't see a way to subsidize this like that so uhhhh good luck
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Jun 7, 2023 17:33
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You forget that Zuckerberg is a autonomous meat puppet emulating human expressions. No joke, look at how he puts that thing on his ears. Those aren't flesh, they're prosthetics on top of his lizard ear-holes.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:35
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The market is different now though. People are used to buying 4 figure phones outright every couple years.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:35
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Yeah and the fact that iphones are a grand for a decent one now is why I laugh when I see people saying "oh the first one is $3500 but they will work on making it smaller and cheaper in the future"
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Jun 7, 2023 18:01
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Cutedge posted:Yeah and the fact that iphones are a grand for a decent one now is why I laugh when I see people saying "oh the first one is $3500 but they will work on making it smaller and cheaper in the future" iPhone SE costs $430 brand new so I think you are confidently incorrect.
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Jun 7, 2023 18:10
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Cutedge posted:Yeah and the fact that iphones are a grand for a decent one now is why I laugh when I see people saying "oh the first one is $3500 but they will work on making it smaller and cheaper in the future" What would they even do to get the cost down? The few unique advantages it has are already questionably useful, so a pruned down version would be basically a lovely Quest Pro. Which also has few practical advantages to it compared to a Quest 2 and later the Quest 3. So what, a $2500 version in the future that is worse in every practical way than its $400 competition?
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Jun 7, 2023 18:14
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Manager Hoyden posted:What would they even do to get the cost down? The few unique advantages it has are already questionably useful, so a pruned down version would be basically a lovely Quest Pro. Which also has few practical advantages to it compared to a Quest 2 and later the Quest 3. Theoretical approach: Sony makes X million Vision Pro screens at 4k resolution (or w/e) and gets the manufacturing process down to a science, reducing cost of manufacture from $400 to $200 Apple releases Vision Pro 2 with new 8k per eye screens Sony still has the manufacturing capacity and know-how to make a bunch of 4k screens Apple releases the Vision Air, which still uses 4k screens, forgoes the externally facing OLED, uses more plastic/metal than glass to save on weight Vision Pro 8k retails for $3999, Vision Air retails for $1999 Repeat until you’re at the Vision SE for $899, Vision Air 3 at $1899, and Vision Pro X for $4500 In short, the longer you produce something the cheaper it is to produce it. Recycle old parts and processes for diffusion models and develop new ones for the pro models —— Idk this is a guess as to how it could play out. Numbers are made up App13 fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 18:28
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KillHour posted:Apple spent a poo poo ton of money on the market research to figure out what Apple consumers will use this for, and it's not going to be the things that get us nerds excited for VR. There's a reason the reveal wasn't positioning it as a platform for games. I respect the attempt to remain open-minded, but if this were the case don't you think they would have shown off some of the stuff they figured out? The not-a-nerd reactions have mostly been making fun of how it looks, not enthusiasm about browsing the web with it.
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Jun 7, 2023 18:35
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KillHour posted:Apple spent a poo poo ton of money on the market research to figure out what Apple consumers will use this for, and it's not going to be the things that get us nerds excited for VR. There's a reason the reveal wasn't positioning it as a platform for games. I think another question to ask is, "how many apple consumers will use this?" I can see a big initial uptake but really struggle to see people buying V2 and V3 after the V1 begins collecting dust. Launching an entirely new product line implies they think 1) there is a market for this 2) they can build/grow the market and maybe most importantly 3) sustain the market indefinitely It's possible based on "reality distortion field" alone they can accomplish #2, I'm skeptical they can achieve #1 & #3. Apple provided no "killer app/feature" for the device, plus it's got that goofy cord and a mystery battery pack that a lot of people will hate Irony.or.Death posted:I respect the attempt to remain open-minded, but if this were the case don't you think they would have shown off some of the stuff they figured out? The not-a-nerd reactions have mostly been making fun of how it looks, not enthusiasm about browsing the web with it. This I like my Quest, but I don't like it enough to go find it and charge it, because I've already clocked probably three hours on beat saber and the two other games I don't completely hate. Beat Saber, Space Pirate Trainer and Pistol Whip all came out what, at least two years ago, I think the first two are 5+ years ago. Arizona Sunshine is a "fun" zombie shooter but I don't know how many times I really want to be eaten by a Zombie IRL before I don't want to play that game again (turns out it's about 6 times) Web browsing and video in VR are novel but honestly I prefer my iPad Hadlock fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 19:07
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App13 posted:iPhone SE costs $430 brand new so I think you are confidently incorrect. The iPhone 3GS was $99-$299 at launch although that was subsidized. An SE is like $300 if you go through a carrier, so it's still matching the upper end cost of the 3GS. And that's for the lowest size model. The top end of an SE is about a hundred bucks more. The iPhone SE started as an iphone 6 when they had the iPhone 7. Right now it's a low end iphone 13 when they have the 14. So I guess yeah it's a cheaper model but it's also just the previous generation model for the most part. I suppose that it could be the case that they will sell the Vision Pro for cheaper when the Vision Pro 2 or 3 is out but at that point I guess you're lagging behind 1 or 2 generations. Manager Hoyden posted:What would they even do to get the cost down? The few unique advantages it has are already questionably useful, so a pruned down version would be basically a lovely Quest Pro. Which also has few practical advantages to it compared to a Quest 2 and later the Quest 3. In theory the price will go down when manufacturing cost goes down as technology improves, but chip manufacturers are all arguing on whether moore's law is dead. I'm really not sure how they'll significantly alter the price. I mean, it's fine if they want to be the luxury XR headset but it's like launching only the Apple Watch ultra or the ones branded by top end watch companies. That might make sense for this product, at least to start. I'm certainly not going to argue about it being the top of the line when it comes to XR headsets on the market. I just don't know how well the customer is going to want to jump in on that. Being Apple and having the brand fandom certainly helps. To be clear, when I see someone on twitter or wherever talking about the price coming down over time for the Vision, I doubt they mean it's going to be a few hundred dollars cheaper. I think people think it will come down to sub-$1000 and I just don't see that happening. Cutedge fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 19:16
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:they're going to put a chip in the headset that adds smiles to everyones faces via passthrough and maybe replaces homeless people with shrubs 
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Jun 7, 2023 19:27
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If I was the kind of person who flew international business / first class more than twice a year and I was in the Apple ecosystem (which I probably would be if that were the case), I would probably get one. Being tethered to an outlet doesn't matter if you can't leave your seat. It also makes more sense as to why it has a fancy "do not disturb" sign - so the flight attendant knows you're talking to them. My hunch is that is pretty much the target market for these but Apple couldn't get away with their announcement being just "New airplane toy for rich assholes."
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Jun 7, 2023 19:28
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I can see apple doing something really stupid like clandestinely hiring actors to sit in first class and watching movies on the iVision to break the ice on watching movies. My experience with the C suite is that they might want to do something (like watch movies in VR) but they'll never ever be the first person to do it on their own.
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Jun 7, 2023 19:38
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App13 posted:Theoretical approach:
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Jun 7, 2023 19:39
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The Quest Pro crawled so the Vision Pro could run.
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Jun 7, 2023 19:59
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Quoting this so I can find it again when this is exactly what happens. Yeah I don't disagree with that. Except the iVision SE will be $999 because of inflation I don't think they'll sell very many of them though. Novelty wears off too fast
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Jun 7, 2023 20:02
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Teabag Dome Scandal posted:they're going to put a chip in the headset that adds smiles to everyones faces via passthrough and maybe replaces homeless people with shrubs someone was talking about how people are probably going to do a tiktok filter app to save dead marriages and thats dystopian as gently caress to think about
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Jun 7, 2023 20:19
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Black August posted:VR headsets can provide an enormous amount of privacy-invading data: where people look, how long and when, their facial expressions and eye movements, how they move in a fake space and a real space, the close-up audio of their breathing matching to expressions and motions: all of this is incredibly valuable data for training robots to move as well as AI systems to pseudo-mindread Apple made a big point in the presentation about keeping privacy-impacting data on the headset, with a particular emphasis on eye movement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=live?GYkq9Rgoj8E&t=7123s 1:58:43 And as a reminder, Apple has told local and Federal law enforcement "no" when asked to break into a device, and have been working to make sure they can't get at your personal data themselves.
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Jun 7, 2023 20:27
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From a cybersecurity standpoint apples Secure Enclave (stores biometrics on iPhone, iPad etc) is second to none. No reason to think they’d phone it in on the Vision Pro
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Jun 7, 2023 20:34
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Yeah it’s a big part of why they have dedicated machine learning hardware on every device too, so all the Siri and machine translation stuff is done locally and they don’t need to spend money running servers to deal with a billion data requests every minute.
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Jun 7, 2023 20:58
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If you search the Twitter turbonerd's patent applications, it's pretty clear that what they actually worked on was "looking at pupil size as a way to do an eyes only visual interface."
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Jun 7, 2023 21:45
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Oh poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujc7uMIzXrg This should rule. I played a bunch of this with a friend and the levels in this are pretty fun and there's a ton of community creations as well.
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Jun 7, 2023 23:37
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Walkabout Minigolf finally moving to end-of-life for the Quest 1 (though in pretty much the single best possible way they could have done, incredibly good dev team) might be the thing that finally pushes me to upgrade my headset. Probably going to move over to the Pico 4 even with the Quest 2 price drop. The Quest 3 doesn't seem to offer enough over the Quest 2 and I'm incredibly reluctant to shackle myself to Facebook/Meta again at any rate.
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