ClassActionFursuit posted:

I would describe the episode as one of the best of theirs that I've listened to, but I'd also generally put CTH as pretty far down the list in general

Kunster posted:

That would be Jude Doyle.

Homeless Friend posted:

It's not the episode that's boring. I mean Clarence Thomas himself is uninteresting. It's just a bunch of words to end up at "acquire the bag", anybody whose been on the internet runs into some variation of Clarence Thomas all the time lol

Homeless Friend posted:

It's not the episode that's boring. I mean Clarence Thomas himself is uninteresting. It's just a bunch of words to end up at "acquire the bag", anybody whose been on the internet runs into some variation of Clarence Thomas all the time lol

ClassActionFursuit posted:

I would describe the episode as one of the best of theirs that I've listened to, but I'd also generally put CTH as pretty far down the list in general


Does anyone remember offhand who the lib podcaster was or what the podcast she had was that Adam shared a ride with?

ClassActionFursuit posted:

I would describe the episode as one of the best of theirs that I've listened to, but I'd also generally put CTH as pretty far down the list in general


Does anyone remember offhand who the lib podcaster was or what the podcast she had was that Adam shared a ride with?

Tankbuster posted:

hey its funny having a hotep crank ayatollah with an insane wife.

Frosted Flake posted:

Some of the reasoning doesn't track for me. For example, this:

“Whatever the inclination of slave owners, their actual behavior was limited by the crop they were growing and this in turn was limited by the climate and soil where they were. The land most suitable for cotton production became the land where plantation slavery was most concentrated. In turn, the attitudes and ideologies of this region of slave-driving were those providing the strongest justification for slavery in terms of the most degraded picture of the Negro race. Those parts of the South least adaptable, by climate and soil, to plantation slave crops were those in which racism did not achieve the same degree of fervor in word and deed.”

Generally aligns with recent scholarship on the political economy of slavery and the antebellum sociopolitical system. Makes sense, right? Chattel slavery and the racial hierarchy that accompanies it were correlated with land that could support cash crop plantations. It also explains why West Virginia (hills, rocks) was Unionist, as well as East Tennessee and North Carolina. It's an argument that finds support from Marxist historians of the American Civil War too, pretty straightforward material cause of a social order.

So, how does he (Sowell, Thomas or Robin I suppose) go from there to:

“This notion—that capitalism was the one power that could bring the white slaveholder to heel, that the economy was the one force that the white man could not control, that the market was the one institution to which the white man would have to yield—is a through line of Race and Economics. For Thomas, it was a lifeline. ”?

The slaveholders dealt with running out of alluvial lands by starting the American Civil War, once westward expansion was blocked. I'm not sure how this is an argument that King Cotton was a force for black liberation. Am I missing something?

The Market did not cause slaveholders to yield, The Market drove chattel slavery.

quote:

Articles in every newspaper and editorials on Garvey have borne witness to the great impression which this extraordinary man made on American life in less than ten years stay in this country. The revolutionary movement is woodenly obtuse to the immense significance of his career. Thereby it shows itself still dominated by the powerful prejudice which belittles or ignores all action and achievements by Negroes. Garvey landed in America some time during the war and agitated for his organization, the UNIA, the Universal Negro Improvement Association. He had a fantastic program of Back to Africa, fantastic, because Britain, France, and Germany would not fight wars for Africa and then hand it over to Garvey. It is doubtful whether he believed it himself. It is possible that when he began he took the idea seriously, but before long he must have become convinced of its impracticality. But Garvey’s ideas are not important.

The first thing to note is that he burst into prominence in the post-war period, when revolution was raging in Europe and the workers were on the move everywhere. The Negro masses felt the stir of the period, and it was that which made Garvey. The next great movement of the American working class was the pro-Roosevelt movement in 1936. It swung hundreds of thousands of Negro votes from the Republican to the Democratic Party. The third great movement of the American workers was the CIO. It swept hundreds of thousands of Negroes into unions for the first time. In every great step forward of the American masses since the war, the Negroes have played their part. Yet the biggest response was to Garvey.

Why? Garvey was a reactionary. He used fierce words but he was opposed to the labor movement and counseled subservience to bosses. One reason for his success was that his movement was strictly a class movement. He appealed to the black Negroes against the Mulattoes. Thus at one strike he excluded the Negro middle class which is very largely of mixed blood. He deliberately aimed at the poorest, most down-trodden and humiliated Negroes. The millions who followed him, the devotion and the money they contributed, show where we can find the deepest strength of the working class movement, the coiled springs of power which lie there waiting for the party which can unloose them. Garvey, however, was a race fanatic. His appeal was to black against white. He wanted purity of race. A great part of his propaganda was based on the past achievements of blacks, their present misery, their future greatness.

With that disregard of facts which characterize the born demagogue, he proclaimed there were 400 million Negroes in the world, when there are certainly not half as many. Who does all this remind us of? Who but Adolph Hitler? The similarity between the two movements does not end there. The Negroes were too few in America for Garvey to give them excitement by means of baiting whites as Hitler baited the Jews. But his program had a nebulousness similar to the the Nazi program. Was this the reason that long before Hitler, he anticipated the Nazi leader in his emphasis on uniforms, parades, military guards, in short, the dramatic and the spectacular? Stupid people saw in all this merely the antics of backward Negroes. Recent events should give them an opportunity to revise their judgements. Everything that Hitler was to do afterwards in the way of psychological appeal, Garvey was doing in 1921 His array of baronets, etc., with himself as Emperor of Africa was a hangover from his early life in the West Indies.

In one important respect, the Garvey movement was the most remarkable political mass movement that America has ever seen. Note that Garvey promised the Negroes nothing and at the same time everything. His organization was not a trade union which offered higher wages, nor was it a political party which could offer prospects of realizing a program. All he did was to speak of Africa, and near the end of his career he bought one or two leaky ships which made one or two streaky voyages. Yet so deep was the sense of wrong and humiliation among the Negroes and so high did he lift them up that they gave him all that they did, year after year, expecting Garvey to perform some miracle. No revolution is ever made except when the masses have reached this pitch of exaltation, when they see a vision of a new society. That is what Garvey gave them.

Personally, Garvey was one of the great orators of his time. Ill-educated, but with the rhythms of Shakespeare and the Bible in his head, he was a master of rhetoric and invective, capable of great emotional appeals and dramatic intensity. In his late years he could hold English crowds spellbound in Hyde Park while he told them that God would save black Ethiopia because Simon the Cyrenian, a black man, helped Jesus on the way to Calvary. As the great poet says, it ain’t what you say, it’s the way that you say it. Yet this remarkable movement and the remarkable figure who led it remain unstudied by American Marxists.

Every two-cent revolutionary who has talked to Negroes in cafeterias and therefore knows the Negro question, points out Garvey’s errors and absurdities and thinks that thereby a contribution has been made to knowledge. More than in all the theses of the Comintern, a basis for the building of a real mass movement among the Negroes lies in a thorough study of this first great eruption of the Negro people.

tristeham posted:

Homeless Friend posted:

It's not the episode that's boring. I mean Clarence Thomas himself is uninteresting. It's just a bunch of words to end up at "acquire the bag", anybody whose been on the internet runs into some variation of Clarence Thomas all the time lol

C-Euro posted:

Listening to the end of the latest 5-4 and wow can't believe Law Boy and I have something in common (neither of us has ever see a Fast & Furious movie)

Wizard Master posted:

yikes!

Wizard Master posted:

yikes!

StashAugustine posted:

I'm parsing that as lady in the sense of propriety rather than strictly gender tbh

StashAugustine posted:

I'm parsing that as lady in the sense of propriety rather than strictly gender tbh

mcmagic posted:

She has a bit of Matt Tiabbi brain so this tracks.

StashAugustine posted:

I'm parsing that as lady in the sense of propriety rather than strictly gender tbh

Homeless Friend posted:

It's not the episode that's boring. I mean Clarence Thomas himself is uninteresting. It's just a bunch of words to end up at "acquire the bag", anybody whose been on the internet runs into some variation of Clarence Thomas all the time lol

mcmagic posted:

Clarence Thomas has to be one of the top 10 or so most effective evil dooers of the last 100 years.

AnimeIsTrash posted:

post the list

Popy posted:

i thought Clarence Thomas was a Dem guy who was taking bribes from some arch conservative before listening to the last cth, but i dont give a gently caress about the SCOTUS so i never paid attention to whose who cause its dumb.

HashtagGirlboss posted:

If you’re American then this is about the biggest wtf possible

If not I don’t blame you for not following our archaic elder council of noble sages

Space Camp fuckup posted:

Moron

Popy posted:

why spend time thinking about something when i have zero even negative power of it

Popy posted:

why spend time thinking about something when i have zero even negative power of it

if theres one thing i agree with Mr. Thomas its his pessimism

Fellatio del Toro posted:

https://twitter.com/deep_beige/status/1666177442132656128

Popy posted:

why spend time thinking about something when i have zero even negative power of it