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Gnossiennes
Jan 7, 2013


Loving chairs more every day!

i have a prescription for lessmethamfemanine personally

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Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


mascaline

(e)

quiggy posted:

methamfeminine is really good (and definitely better than titty Skittles) but im still partial to anticistamines
lol changed my mind, anticistamine is really good

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord
Notcis Oxide

gnatalie
Jul 1, 2003

blasting women into space

Improbable Lobster posted:

i am now also on e

heck yes

Grace Baiting
Jul 20, 2012

Audi famam illius;
Cucurrit quaeque
Tetigit destruens.



Zamujasa posted:

yospos lgbtqia+ thread: methamfemanine

:popeye:

Fart Sandwiches
Apr 4, 2006

i never asked for this
I heard fem-n-m’s recently and thought it was pretty good too

betty boof
Jun 2, 2023

presented by SPUDNUTS

claw game handjob
Mar 27, 2007

pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING
I actually booed that last one

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff
Genderpearls is also very popular among zoomers.

If you don't get that one, you're Old Now™

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar

Expo70 posted:

Genderpearls is also very popular among zoomers.

If you don't get that one, you're Old Now™

is that the good ending version of the "in minecraft" meme

OldAlias
Nov 2, 2013

Expo70 posted:

Genderpearls is also very popular among zoomers.

If you don't get that one, you're Old Now™

yeah it’s the white orbs of prometrium / micronized progesterone

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord
hrt: the master chief collection

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Zamujasa posted:

is that the good ending version of the "in minecraft" meme

Yessum.

Improbable Lobster posted:

forgot to post this here




THINGS I WISH SOMEONE HAD TOLD ME MANY YEARS AGO THAT I WILL SAY BUT I MUST ALSO SAY I AM NOT A DOCTOR SO PLEASE DO YOUR OWN READING:

Even if you are NOT self-medding and you have a VERY GOOD DOCTOR who SEEMS TO BE DOING IT PROPERLY, you should know what is happening in your own body.

Doctors are human and they make mistakes. Being your own failsafe is incredibly valuable, and may save your own life.

HRT is not something to take lightly. It is a process involving steroid hormones and almost every medication which influences your endocrine system will have knock-on-effects on the rest of your body that you need to keep a close eye on.

With that in mind, know that spironolactone is also sold as aldactone: Its primary purpose is as a heart medication, designed to reduce swelling in the heart, kidneys and organs, remove salt without making you lose potassium and lower blood pressure.

I say again: It is a heart medication: You are a person with a healthy cardiovascular system taking a medication designed to alter the behavior of your cardiovascular system. Antiandrogen is a side-effect of the medication for most patients. For you, the medication's primary effects *are* the side-effects.

Be very careful with spironolactone in the long run, and don't go over 100mg daily if you can help it. Spironolactone isn't really meant to be used as a long-term anti-androgen and has a lot of effects on the body that risk affecting your ability to properly metabolize iron which is why a huge number of transgirls are anaemic, even after they come off the meds.


Likewise, spironolactone monotherapy is actually kind of dangerous and cause problems with your bones.

For this reason, make absolutely sure you are getting regular blood tests which evaluate your iron, calcium and magnesium levels especially and go easy on anything containing potassium since your kidneys can't filter it out anywhere near as effectively now: Spironolactone or aldactone is a heart medicine, primarily depending on its use as a CYP2C8 and CYP3A4/5 enzyme inhibitor and a diuretic:

FOR THIS REASON, **ALWAYS** double check to see if any other medications (over the counter or otherwise) you might be given in future mess with that transport chain as there are horror stories of doctors not checking this (including mine, which I am still suffering the consequences for now having discontinued spironolactone nearly two years ago now!) and then people with ADHD who are given armodafinil, modafinil and sometimes adderall having a really bad time with kidney problems. Thanks, doc!

Likewise, drink LOTS of water, or you may run into problems with energy levels (brainfog, sleepiness). This goes double if you enjoy alcohol, because spironolactone and alcohol are not friends. It is very tempting to say "haha it makes me a cheap night out, I get drunk fast", but you're also y'know, kinda damaging your liver because the two aren't friends.

Assuming you're transfemme with estrogenic goals, you should aim eventually to achieve monotherapy (estrogen without spiro, where the estrogen levels themselves signal your body to stop metabolizing testosterone based on fancy metabolism curves that some special communities online will share with you if you ask nicely) with subcutaneous estradiol variants (with ethanate being the most ideal typically) and then potentially following up later with progesterone. Importantly, progesterone taken orally metabolizes at 1/10th the strength as uh, other methods which most forms of it are designed for, so please do your own research on that front.

I will also add a second disclaimer that

1: Please take your health very seriously
2: Although doctors obviously know a lot, they are humans just like us and their training and reading has limits on special cases like ours so please keep this in mind. Most of the patients of endocrinologists are cispeople, and all of the medications presented are with cisbodies in mind, so there is a component of uncharted territory here and the doctors are winging it based on the success stories they've seen more than they are either comfortable or liable to admit to you.
3: I'm sure someone in this thread will "um, ackchually" and then go on a big rant about how spironolactone is "fine, actually": I am a single person and I am representing a single experience.
4: I am just a goon on the internet saying things. Do your own reading.

Many transwomen basically end up learning big chunks of endocrinology because doctors do make mistakes and those mistakes have consequences. They're not doctors, but being able to correct an honest mistake, or make well informed inquiries based on blood tests or symptoms is very important.

I'm sorry if this stuff is scary but its super important and can save you a lot of heartache.

Godspeed, don't let this scare you and good luck with your journey.

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Jun 6, 2023

quiggy
Aug 7, 2010

[in Russian] Oof.


realtalk spiro users please drink more water than you think you need to. yes, every day. yes, it sucks.

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

quiggy posted:

realtalk spiro users please drink more water than you think you need to. yes, every day. yes, it sucks.

Yes, at LEAST 50% more, because the odds are good you were unknowingly dehydrated already BEFORE starting spironolactone.

Ensure your diet contains enough electrolytes: Sodium, calcium, chloride, phosphate, and magnesium
Keep your potassium levels as low as you dare (bananas are essentially banned)

A fun side-effect is its also an acne medication which can be very helpful, and it will also make your skin cause less secondary caustic scattering, since skin is translucent, but not transparent and has roughness so light shines through and gradually gets lost as it goes deeper. Think the same optical property you see when you see candle light shine through wax, and the colour changes, or if you've ever tried to look at a picture on a phone through a really thin slice of meat for whatever bizzare reason.

Very helpful if you're getting laser treatments!
Very very bad if you're out in the sun as you'll burn to a crisp:
Wear sun screen, even if you think you don't need it

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jun 6, 2023

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

quiggy posted:

realtalk spiro users please drink more water than you think you need to. yes, every day. yes, it sucks.

yeah, i already make sure to drink a whole lot and made sure to up how much water i drink too

thank you for the advice Expo70. i'm trans-non-binary and not hoping to look "femme" so to speak, but i am on estro as well and will keep your advice in mind.




also i would probably die if i had to do injections regularly, i simply can't

Silver Alicorn
Mar 30, 2008

𝓪 𝓻𝓮𝓭 𝓹𝓪𝓷𝓭𝓪 𝓲𝓼 𝓪 𝓬𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓸𝓾𝓼 𝓼𝓸𝓻𝓽 𝓸𝓯 𝓬𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓽𝓾𝓻𝓮
I’m a week late on my injection 😇

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Improbable Lobster posted:

yeah, i already make sure to drink a whole lot and made sure to up how much water i drink too

also i would probably die if i had to do injections regularly, i simply can't

Fair on the needle front, though you'd be surprised what you can get used to if you have to.

I remember for me, the injections seemed scary at first, but they're honestly easy if they're subcutaneous because they're genuinely hard to get wrong and estradiol is a really tiny molecule usually in a very thin suspension so its laughably easy to do with even the 0.08's which you don't even feel. The bit I hate most is prepping the injection, out of fear I'll drop the vial or something like that.

In terms of "I simply can't", intravenous injection or deep muscle injection on the other hand are very scary.

I've got access to neofollin as a backup in ampules for use with filter needles (always use filter needles if you go anywhere near ampules, ever) but its my hope to never need to use it.

Improbable Lobster posted:


thank you for the advice Expo70. i'm trans-non-binary and not hoping to look "femme" so to speak, but i am on estro as well and will keep your advice in mind.


You're welcome.

I know a lot of enby folk who suppressed their identities for many terrible and painful years by trying to reduce themselves to a binary, even while transitioning.

I get a tremendously warm and happy feeling every time I see someone not feel the need to do that, and deeply I'm happy for you.

Repression of the genuine self is not something any human being living or dead should ever have had to do on any level, and it is my deepest wish that one day even the idea itself will so baffle and confuse school children when read of it in the history books written about our time.

That they look back on our era with confusion, and think we are barbaric and stupid in their own blissful ignorance of the difficulties and fears of our era.

I think the very best thing any of us can hope for us that the difficulties of our lives are are so solved, that they become alien to those who come after us.

I think eventually, perhaps as soon as some distant constellation in the twilight years of us here and now, that day will come.

I hope we all live long enough to see that day.

All in all, you do you, wonderful you.

Good luck.

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord
my husband used to do subcutaneous testosterone injections and i've had them for medical stuff at least once or twice. they're still too much for me. i understand that they're easier but if anything i severely understated how bad my needlephobia is

Gnossiennes
Jan 7, 2013


Loving chairs more every day!

Improbable Lobster posted:

my husband used to do subcutaneous testosterone injections and i've had them for medical stuff at least once or twice. they're still too much for me. i understand that they're easier but if anything i severely understated how bad my needlephobia is

lol i slowly gained a needle aversion from doing my hrt injections until i had to switch to gel.
plus i kept getting scar lumps from not rotating locations enough even though i was rotating between 6-8 diff spots :( it's been several years, and most of the lumps are gone now thankfully! but i can still feel a couple of them.

i'm glad there are options outside of injectables. it helps!

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

Gnossiennes posted:

lol i slowly gained a needle aversion from doing my hrt injections until i had to switch to gel.
plus i kept getting scar lumps from not rotating locations enough even though i was rotating between 6-8 diff spots :( it's been several years, and most of the lumps are gone now thankfully! but i can still feel a couple of them.

i'm glad there are options outside of injectables. it helps!

that's why my husband had to switch to gel, he was getting more anxiety over time, not less.

same thing happened to me over a decade or so with my flu shots and such slowly getting worse and worse lol

quiggy
Aug 7, 2010

[in Russian] Oof.


yeah if i was on T id have to do gel, gently caress a needle. thankfully all i have to do instead is melt a thing under my tongue, hooray

Gnossiennes
Jan 7, 2013


Loving chairs more every day!

i also had a fun thing with gel where after about a year of consistent test levels, my usual dose suddenly popped my levels up to double what they should be, and now i have to take half a dose instead of the usual full dose. idk why. i thought it was an issue with a specific generic manufacturer, but the effect stayed when my pharmacy switched back to the old one. idk!

i need to find a new endo since my insurance changed. if it turns out my test levels have been low this whole time i'm gonna be pissed

betty boof
Jun 2, 2023

presented by SPUDNUTS

secretly best girl posted:

I actually booed that last one
I seriously think Florence put that one there on purpose not because it was good but just too put the most ridiculous thing possible in a published paper

Radia
Jul 14, 2021

And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Gnossiennes posted:

lol i slowly gained a needle aversion from doing my hrt injections until i had to switch to gel.
plus i kept getting scar lumps from not rotating locations enough even though i was rotating between 6-8 diff spots :( it's been several years, and most of the lumps are gone now thankfully! but i can still feel a couple of them.

i'm glad there are options outside of injectables. it helps!

simply get type 1 diabetes and need to do 5-6 injections a day, op. that needlephobia fades away as the threat of hyperglycemia looms

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013

"Life savers" is always a punch in the gut. The rest are all funny names and then there's that one, right in the middle of the list.

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.
random thoughts

Expo70 posted:

Importantly, progesterone taken orally metabolizes at 1/10th the strength as uh, other methods which most forms of it are designed for, so please do your own research on that front.
Godspeed, don't let this scare you and good luck with your journey.

a lot of girls have extolled the virtues of putting prog up one's rear end but i refuse lol. nothing goes in or out of that hole

i always find it kinda interesting how american trans girls are all "listen be careful around spironolactone this poo poo wil lwreck you it's not like cypro which is cool and good" meanwhile european ones are "cypro will give you literal brain cancer god if only people prescribed more spiro". i guess the grass is greener on the other side. on the other hand one of my sexologists prescribed me 150mg of cypro for years before i learned that this is the dose one uses for the "chemical castration" for pedophiles while wpath recommends a tenth of that.

i also learned that "chemical castration" is just "taking pills". it kinda really cruises on the naming lol. sounds like injecting bleach into someone's balls.

also god i wish my tits were bigger or at least like. more proportional.

mediaphage
Mar 22, 2007

Excuse me, pardon me, sheer perfection coming through

goblin week posted:

random thoughts

a lot of girls have extolled the virtues of putting prog up one's rear end but i refuse lol. nothing goes in or out of that hole

how do u poop

Qtotonibudinibudet
Nov 7, 2011



Omich poluyobok, skazhi ty narkoman? ya prosto tozhe gde to tam zhivu, mogli by vmeste uyobyvat' narkotiki

goblin week posted:

putting prog up one's rear end

lookin at the court of the crimson king album cover in a whole new light

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

goblin week posted:

i always find it kinda interesting how american trans girls are all "listen be careful around spironolactone this poo poo wil lwreck you it's not like cypro which is cool and good" meanwhile european ones are "cypro will give you literal brain cancer god if only people prescribed more spiro".

Expo70 is from the UK

armpit_enjoyer
Jan 25, 2023

my god. it's full of posts

goblin week posted:

i always find it kinda interesting how american trans girls are all "listen be careful around spironolactone this poo poo wil lwreck you it's not like cypro which is cool and good" meanwhile european ones are "cypro will give you literal brain cancer god if only people prescribed more spiro".

My social bubble has at least three pharmacologists in it* and they all universally decry both spironolactone and cyproterone because yeah they will gently caress your body up long term. Pure e + prog therapy is the safest way to go but since the only country in Europe where you can buy injectable estradiol is Czechia, it's a huge pain in the rear end (hurr durr) compared to like. OC-35, which you can get at every pharmacy.

(While we're on the topic: gently caress OC-35)

If you need an anti-androgen, Bicalutamide and norgestimate + ethinylestradiol pills seem to be safer, but aren't as widely available.


* the rest of the social bubble is begging the three of them to cook injectable estradiol post graduation instead of whatever the gently caress else they have planned. Please join that chorus so I can buy E without having to cross borders

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.
oh yeah a Czech Person I Know is all in on that injectable estradiol but i feel like that's a half-solution considering it's valerate so i'd have to stab myself every 4-5 days. not going to do this poo poo unless i can do at least two weeks. guy style. testosterone undecanoate is a once every two months thing and i am super jealous.

i probably wouldn't inject myself with anything someone cooked at home unless it's like, heroin.


mediaphage posted:

how do u poop

sporadically

goblin week
Jan 26, 2019

Absolute clown.
does progesterone even do anything. last time i checked the universal medical response was a big shrug

armpit_enjoyer
Jan 25, 2023

my god. it's full of posts

goblin week posted:

oh yeah a Czech Person I Know is all in on that injectable estradiol but i feel like that's a half-solution considering it's valerate so i'd have to stab myself every 4-5 days. not going to do this poo poo unless i can do at least two weeks. guy style. testosterone undecanoate is a once every two months thing and i am super jealous.

i probably wouldn't inject myself with anything someone cooked at home unless it's like, heroin.

sporadically

I have been on valerate for over a year now. Went and tested my blood after missing my weekly shot, I think it was something like 10 or 11 days after the last one; my E levels were eight times as high as they were back when I took 8mg estradiol orally each day. That's eleven days without an injection.

I have no beef with estradiol valerate. It fuckin rules

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff
Friendly reminder: I am not a doctor. Do your own reading.

goblin week posted:

oh yeah a Czech Person I Know is all in on that injectable estradiol but i feel like that's a half-solution considering it's valerate so i'd have to stab myself every 4-5 days. not going to do this poo poo unless i can do at least two weeks. guy style. testosterone undecanoate is a once every two months thing and i am super jealous.

i probably wouldn't inject myself with anything someone cooked at home unless it's like, heroin.

sporadically

The scary bit is not the needle and the stabbing, but the vial and taking very VERY good care of it and its contents.

So for anybody in our audience who might be doing either of these two things:

One thing to be mindful of is if you get bruises not just lumps, there might be pyrogens which are the gibs of bacteria. If there's any bleeding 2 days after the injection and you're not a little bleeder, stop immediately.

If a vial is cloudy, it could be bacteria but it might also be the wrong balance of solvent to suspension.

You can test for this, but its a bit sus:

There's a rule that if you don't trust something in a needle and you're doing injections in an emergency situation and there's no massive time concern, do a small injection into fat and see if it wells up over an hour or so and if it doesn't, only then do IV.

Also no-brainer: DON'T EVER IV estradial. You want it in fat or muscle where it can sit distributing over time and you don't want the suspension/solvent mix gumming you your veins like an idiot.

You should also be cycling not only the position of needles, but the depth of the needle.

If you have any reason to mistrust it, assume bacteria and don't use it.

Pyrogens can trigger long term problems caused by white blood cell response if its persistent enough which range from damaging the stuff in your ears which lets you perform balance to giving you a chronic fatigue condition.


Improbable Lobster posted:

that's why my husband had to switch to gel, he was getting more anxiety over time, not less.

same thing happened to me over a decade or so with my flu shots and such slowly getting worse and worse lol

T tends to be in a thicker more viscous suspension fluid, and the body tends to react a bit more viscerally to it.

In terms of shots, you can actually alleviate the fear by administering eachother's shots since there's no pain on the other end of the action and instead you get thanked by a grateful human being you care about, and thus you don't amplify it with pavlovian response.

I take turns doing it with my partner, and I've essentially completely lost my fear of needles as a result.

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Jun 7, 2023

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Expo70 posted:

In terms of shots, you can actually alleviate the fear by administering eachother's shots since there's no pain on the other end of the action and instead you get thanked by a grateful human being you care about, and thus you don't amplify it with pavlovian response.

I take turns doing it with my partner, and I've essentially completely lost my fear of needles as a result.

i think you just get off on stabbing people more than you fear the needle

Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

goblin week posted:

random thoughts

a lot of girls have extolled the virtues of putting prog up one's rear end but i refuse lol. nothing goes in or out of that hole

butt stuff owns, but not everyone likes it

betty boof
Jun 2, 2023

presented by SPUDNUTS

mediaphage posted:

how do u poop
Seriously answer this question pls

Also it's not a big deal? Seriously you just moisten it a little and it goes right up there

I get my script filled in 100mg so that I can hormonally spitroast myself

goblin week posted:

does progesterone even do anything. last time i checked the universal medical response was a big shrug
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/104/4/1181/5270376

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

my wife's doctor insists it does absolutely nothing useful but lately she went and got some anyway and rubs the cream stuff on her tiddy and it's made them grow some more and they're way more sensitive so i think it's doing something :shrug:

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Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

"From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.
Buglord

Shame Boy posted:

i think you just get off on stabbing people more than you fear the needle

yeah, while i appreciate the advice i don't think i can ever been a needle person

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