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Hedgehog Pie posted:I've seen people say that Russo being champion wasn't any worse than when Vince McMahon held the WWF title for a week the previous year. That was definitely crap too, but at least McMahon was over as a character and had been in a few matches before. Russo had been on TV for less than a year and was already extremely grating to pretty much everyone watching. You could also argue that McMahon with the belt at least kind of developed the storyline with new top heel HHH, as opposed to Russo winning just making the supposed superfaces Booker T and Goldberg look like idiots (again).
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Jun 7, 2023 15:30
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Shard posted:didn't vince give up the title like right away as well? I don't remember either storyline clearly but I'm guessing McMahon did it to further the story and give someone else a win through adversity while Russo did it because it was a swerve.
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Jun 7, 2023 15:32
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WCW world heavyweight champion david arquette
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Jun 7, 2023 17:01
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I've been watching a solid amount of classic WCW and I'm realizing that it feels like absolutely no one talks about The York Foundation at all. I didn't even know they existed until they started showing up on old Fall Brawls and such. It's weird because you'd think they'd at least get clowned on a little by wrestling fans for being a little gimmicky or at least an odd unique stable but I feel like they're never discussed. And I don't get it because I think they're awesome! Terri Runnels as Alexandra York has such a cool look with the briefcase and suit, I love the gimmick of everyone in the stable using their full names like Terrence Taylor, and I dunno, I just think they're cool. I'm going to retroactively become the biggest York Foundation mark the way people in 2009 evangelized John Tenta or Stan Hansen.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:11
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I didn't watch WCW as a kid so I didn't see it firsthand, but I always liked the idea of The York Foundation. Especially the thing about a super computer being used to figure out your opponents' weaknesses or whatever. Also feels somewhat progressive (for wrestling) to have your genius manager be a woman who is actually very smart and not made to look like a fool at ever turn? It's possible that Terri's run in WWF overshadowed anything she did in WCW so it's kind of swept away.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:17
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Anyone know if the 1987 great american bash war games match is available in full? Edit: I think I found it https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23yh4o Edit2: apparently JJ Dillion breaks his shoulder during this match? Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 17:19
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that sounds correct to my memory but its been a very long time since ive thought about it.
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Jun 7, 2023 17:29
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I believe Dillon was legit injured in that match by the Doomsday Device inside the cage. The rematch (also included on the VHS home video) replaced JJ with the masked War Machine (Ray Traylor).
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Jun 7, 2023 17:38
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Integrated Houston posted:I believe Dillon was legit injured in that match by the Doomsday Device inside the cage. The rematch (also included on the VHS home video) replaced JJ with the masked War Machine (Ray Traylor). That is what arn said in a little clip I listened to while trying to find video. Arn said they originally asked him to do it and he said no because he thought it was a bad idea and would injure someone.dillinger. Edit: I found a full upload of the GAB '87 VHS on facebook. Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 7, 2023 |
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Jun 7, 2023 17:42
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JJ mentions it in his book (which is very good btw) that he separated the shoulder taking the bump.quote:On July 4, 1987, I received the most serious injury I ever had when I separated my shoulder during the War Games in the Atlanta Omni. Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Lex Luger, and I were against Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, Paul Ellering, and the Road Warriors, Animal and Hawk. We put two rings together and surrounded them with a cage.
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Jun 7, 2023 18:36
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Yeah, Hawk and Animal were absolutely the kind of bullies who would respond to "I really don't want to take that bump, my body can't handle it and I might get seriously hurt" with "ha, then we're definitely doing it, and also gently caress yourself."
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Jun 7, 2023 18:42
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Were the Road Warriors shitheads? I just watched the match and it ruled, but you can see JJ immediately knows he is hurt and tries to roll away to try and call the match. Apparently Nikita and Dusty were actually injured too?
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Jun 7, 2023 19:15
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They were more meatheads than shitheads. They worked a rough style and weren’t exactly the most careful with their moves. Beating guys up was basically their gimmick, and they didn’t mind causing some pain. But I don’t think they ever intentionally injured anyone in the ring. You can see why they wouldn’t be guys’ favorite dudes to get in the ring with, but they made money everywhere they went, so their opponents put up with it. Hawk was the more volatile personality of the two, and while he was loved by a lot of people, he had substance abuse issues that probably made him very unpleasant to plenty of coworkers (assuming they weren’t as bad off as he was).
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Jun 7, 2023 19:41
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They were two beefy guys that Ole Anderson put together and immediately pushed to the moon, so they never really learned that whole "work your way to the top" thing that other wrestlers did and didn't seem to get the whole "protect your opponent" idea.
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Jun 7, 2023 19:46
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That was always the impression I got--they were pushed hard with very little training, working stiff was part of their gimmick, and no one in authority ever told them to tone it down nor tried to train them. As opposed to the Steiners who were just douchebags.
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Jun 7, 2023 20:15
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Halloween Jack posted:That was always the impression I got--they were pushed hard with very little training, working stiff was part of their gimmick, and no one in authority ever told them to tone it down nor tried to train them. As opposed to the Steiners who were just douchebags. I always liked the story that the Steiners were paired with Doom and then later the Hardliners because they were teams that the Steiners wouldn't mess with. There's an interview where somebody talks about the Steiners' penchant for ribbing and they ask Ron Simmons if they ever pulled that with him and he just gave the interviewer a Look. Unfortunately the Warriors never really needing to work a style other than 'run roughshod over people' meant their stuff with teams of a comparable size (your Powers of Pain, your Samoan SWAT Teams) weren't very good because the Roadies worked much better with folks like the Express and the Horsemen, smaller teams who could bump around like pinballs for them.
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Jun 7, 2023 20:44
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Shame Haku was in WWE at the time. Then again he probably wouldn't have even noticed if the Steiners tried to stiff him.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5iLrtGrFkw&t=2798s this Road Warriors promo is stuck in my head forever. 1 they look aboslutly gigantic and crazy in the basement here. 2 this is the animal road warrior animal. 3 NOT JUST BEAT YOU BUT DEMORALIZE YOU AS A MAN! 4 when were little kids getting beat up by 10 to 15 people at a time! 5 All about Bad! All about Bad for You! and Good! For ussss!! Iron Man is a pretty great entrance theme too, gives a real rear end kicker vibe.
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Jun 7, 2023 21:40
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in memory of iron sheik i will lol at the time WCW got him to sign a contract only to realize sheiky was out of shape and to put him on the bench and forgot to cancel his contract so he got an extra year of free money lol
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Jun 7, 2023 22:21
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I finished the 87 great american bash VHS rip. The Gorgeous Jimmy and Ric Flair match was good too. Ric's trunks almost get torn off and you see his rear end lol
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Jun 7, 2023 22:24
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:WCW world heavyweight champion david arquette I haven't seen any of the matches, but I think it's cool that he had a pro wrestling redemption arc two decades later due to his own actual passion for the craft and desire to clean up his WCW legacy.
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Jun 7, 2023 22:28
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iamsosmrt posted:I haven't seen any of the matches, but I think it's cool that he had a pro wrestling redemption arc two decades later due to his own actual passion for the craft and desire to clean up his WCW legacy. nick gage almost killed him
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Jun 7, 2023 22:58
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Arquette should also have probably not tried a panicked takedown on the guy with a broken piece of glass to his throat, tbh
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Jun 8, 2023 00:06
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i would have simply not gotten into the ring with nick gage
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Jun 8, 2023 00:09
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:i would have simply not gotten into the ring with nick gage And that's why you'll never wash away the stench of your WCW World Title reign
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Jun 8, 2023 00:10
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:i would have simply not gotten into the ring with nick gage This is good life advice for anybody, really.
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Jun 8, 2023 00:55
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lol arquette buying nick gage an expensive celebrity dinner and telling him not to be too rough only to nearly die from blood loss
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Jun 8, 2023 01:01
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I don't remember either storyline clearly but I'm guessing McMahon did it to further the story and give someone else a win through adversity while Russo did it because it was a swerve. Russo booked both.
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Jun 8, 2023 01:44
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Suplex Liberace posted:Iron Man is a pretty great entrance theme too, gives a real rear end kicker vibe. The Road Warriors owe a lot to Black Sabbath. One of my other favorite promos from them is Hawk on War Games, I think. "Life is full ups and downs! UP against the cage and DOWN against the mat!"
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Jun 8, 2023 02:47
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Admiral Joeslop posted:I don't remember either storyline clearly but I'm guessing McMahon did it to further the story and give someone else a win through adversity while Russo did it because it was a swerve. In July 1999, he was banned from appearing on TV/in the ring for about a month and a half because Austin beat Undertaker in a world title match where Vince was in Undertaker's corner. Then a couple of months later Triple H has his first title reign which leaned heavily on him being bitter at how Everyone Backstage tried to hold him down, how he was punished for the Curtain Call, how Vince chose the Rock to be his Corporate Champion and not Triple H, etc. So on an episode of Smackdown Triple H says he was ordered to defend his world championship against an opponent of his choosing, and so he cut a promo complaining about everything outlined above and challenged Vince McMahon to a world title match. Everyone tries to interfere (Chyna, Shane, Linda, Patterson and Brisco) and in the melee Steve Austin runs out, stunners Triple H and drags Vince's carcass on top of Triple H to allow Vince to win the title. The next Monday on Raw he vacates it and sets up a "six pack challenge" at the next PPV for the world title. Triple H wins the title back, and continues to be very mad at Vince McMahon, culminating in the entire "Triple H marries Stephanie against her will... or maybe it wasn't, brother" storyline a couple of months later. Triple H came out of 1999 solidified as a main eventer, for all the good and ill that portended for the 21st century. It was pretty silly and I don't know if it was effective, but it made sense from the perspective of "let's try to get Triple H over as a main event heel by involving Vince McMahon, who was a very hot character and played a big role in getting Steve Austin really over as a main eventer". Vince Russo, World Champion At New Blood Rising, there was a #1 contenders match between Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, and Goldberg. They announced Goldberg could not compete because of a motorcycle accident, but almost immediately after the match starts, out comes Goldberg all taped up as the announcers talk about how Kevin Nash used to be on the booking committee and he and Goldberg have heat because Nash booked himself to go over Goldberg. When Nash tries to powerbomb Goldberg, he refuses to go up and tries to walk out of the match as the announcers go crazy about how Goldberg is refusing to follow the script, and he's forcing Nash and Steiner to IMPROVISE. Vince Russo comes out (as booker) to yell and Goldberg to go back and finish the match. Goldberg refuses! Vince Russo announces that he can't fire Goldberg, but he can "punish" him with matches, which I assume were not scripted like the one he refused to do. Russo also commanded Steiner to beat up Goldberg's girlfriend, which was retaliation for Goldberg beating up Scott Steiner's girlfriend. Shades of Gray! Anyway, Steiner beats Goldberg at the next PPV after Vince Russo hits Goldberg with a baseball bat. Through a series of contrivances, the next night on Nitro they announce a tag match between Scott Steiner/Jeff Jarrett vs. Kevin Nash/Vince Russo for a shot at Booker T's WCW championship. Later in the show, Kevin Nash announces that he's out of the match for mysterious reasons. Later still, Sting and Booker T have a match for the WCW championship which almost immediately ends when Jeff Jarrett and Scott Steiner run in to beat the poo poo out of Sting and Booker. This leads to Vince Russo asking Sting to be his partner in the #1 contender tag match, since he is mad at Steiner/Jarrett and wants another world title shot. When the match finally starts, Vince Russo doesn't come out as Sting's partner: it's Booker T! Eventually Kronik comes out to attack Jarrett and Sting, allowing Russo to run in to be Booker T's partner. Russo gets beat up for awhile, allowing Booker T to hit Scott Steiner with Vince Russo's bat. Booker T then drags Vince Russo's carcass onto Steiner, as opposed to pinning Steiner himself, because I guess he wanted to beat up Russo in a world title match the following week? The following week, Scott Steiner and Jeff Jarrett act as if this was all part of their plan, and they're cheering on Vince Russo. They declare that it's going to be a CAGE MATCH, which suits Booker fine because there will be no interference. In the actual match, there is interference rom Mike Awesome, the Filthy Animals, the Misfits in Action, the Jung Dragons, Kwee-Wee, Lex Luger, Ric Flair, the Natural Born Thrillerz, Scott Steiner, and finally Goldberg, who spears Russo through the cage right as Booker T is escaping. That week on Thunder, Vince Russo declares himself the world champion because as the booker he can decide who won in the event of a tie, but also that he is injured and he'll make an announcement the following week as to what he's doing with the championship. On Nitro, he relinquishes the belt and puts it on the line in a 49ERS MATCH, which is the one with all of the boxes and one of them had a picture of Scott Hall in it. The finish comes when Beetlejuice from the Howard Stern Show crawls out from underneath the ring and starts punching Jeff Jarrett in the dick, which allows Booker T to pull down the fourth and final box and let the world title fall out onto the floor. This is good enough for Booker to regain the world title. Vince Russo was not seen on WCW television again. The incredibly broad strokes of the two 'reigns' are similar, everything else surrounding them are obviously very different. STONE COLD 64 posted:Russo booked both.
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Jun 11, 2023 03:29
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realistically mcmahon is making the call on if hes wearing the belt or not but i do not rule out the run as something russo may have pitched and booked.
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Jun 11, 2023 03:45
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It's astonishing that so many infamously horrible WCW moments all happened as part of one storyline in the span of like 6 weeks
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Jun 11, 2023 05:38
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Drakkel posted:It's astonishing that so many infamously horrible WCW moments all happened as part of one storyline in the span of like 6 weeks Yeah but enough about the Great Poop Feud of '99.
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Jun 11, 2023 05:42
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DDP's face should be on money for having the stones to confront Steiner backstage.
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Jun 11, 2023 12:18
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Vordell Walker Challenge Coin
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Jun 11, 2023 19:45
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Edge & Christian posted:The finish comes when Beetlejuice from the Howard Stern Show crawls out from underneath the ring and starts punching Jeff Jarrett in the dick, which allows Booker T to pull down the fourth and final box and let the world title fall out onto the floor. This is good enough for Booker to regain the world title. So, someone stepped in and stopped Russo from from giving us WCW Champion David Penzer? "He got the belt before Booker, it's just logical, bro."
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Jun 11, 2023 20:25
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NameHurtBrain posted:So, someone stepped in and stopped Russo from from giving us WCW Champion David Penzer? I've been saying for years that Penzer should have been World champion and I'm shocked Russo didn't go with it.
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Jun 12, 2023 13:37
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Edge & Christian posted:Vince McMahon, World Champion It wasn't even the span of a couple of months. The Austin / Undertaker match was at Fully Loaded in July 1999, and then there was a three-way match at SummerSlam the following month with Austin, Triple H and Mankind (this was the match with Jesse Ventura as special guest referee). Austin's knee was all kinds of hosed up, so he needed to take time off for surgery, but he didn't want to drop the belt to Triple H, who Austin didn't think was ready for the top spot. So Mankind won the championship at SummerSlam, and Triple H beat him for the title the very next night on Raw. And then darkness fell.
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Jun 12, 2023 19:56
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Timby posted:It wasn't even the span of a couple of months. The Austin / Undertaker match was at Fully Loaded in July 1999, and then there was a three-way match at SummerSlam the following month with Austin, Triple H and Mankind (this was the match with Jesse Ventura as special guest referee). Austin's knee was all kinds of hosed up, so he needed to take time off for surgery, but he didn't want to drop the belt to Triple H, who Austin didn't think was ready for the top spot. So Mankind won the championship at SummerSlam, and Triple H beat him for the title the very next night on Raw. I know that it was floated that Austin didn't want to put over Triple H at Summerslam, but Austin *did* get pinned by Triple H in October at No Mercy, and then again on a Smackdown elimination match in November 1999. It's possible he got pressured into those matches a couple of months later or had a swift change of heart, but I always assumed the 24 hour Mankind reign was more because they got then-Governor Jesse Ventura to referee the title match, and he didn't want to count the pin/raise the arm of a heel like Triple H. At the time in his newsletter, Meltzer reported that Austin had no issues putting over Triple H, though he suggests that in the weeks leading to Summerslam Triple H (on advice of Shawn Michaels) was mad that Austin didn't want to put him over cleanly. Along with him turning down a match with Billy Gunn (and having actual heat with Jeff Jarrett) this got turned into a narrative that Austin was pulling a Hulk Hogan: August 23, 1999 Wrestling Observer posted:There is some question as to how long Austin will even be able to be out there, it has nothing to do with Austin not wanting to put HHH over as he'd long ago agreed to do so. The planned scenario at this point seems to be for Austin to lay low somewhat through the rest of the year as far as getting a return match for the title, and return to win the title at the Rumble in January at Madison Square Garden
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Jun 12, 2023 21:03
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Austin standing up for himself and for things making storyline sense is completely admirable and is probably why Vince is even more of a control freak these days.
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Jun 13, 2023 01:44
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