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the JJ
Mar 31, 2011
I'm doing what was meant to be a fairly brainless GB run where I just bully the world, and I ran into this weird situation:



Is this a bug? Or did I gently caress myself by including the Revoke Claim in my wargoals? That's Ingria in the background being occupied, so as far as I can tell the Russians should be below zero there, so I am occupying their cap, so per the tool tip they should be going below 0? Is there some nuance I'm missing?

e: P.S. Ignore the state of my economy.

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Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
Did they move their capital somehow?

Ithle01
May 28, 2013
New dev diary talks about plans for the future. One of the things I like is autonomous trade routes, but there's an issue here - the ai just doesn't make surpluses. Countries will sit with coal or iron at +75% cost and refuse to build essential industrial materials despite having available resources. Before we need autonomous trade we need an ai that actually develops its country.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Ithle01 posted:

New dev diary talks about plans for the future. One of the things I like is autonomous trade routes, but there's an issue here - the ai just doesn't make surpluses. Countries will sit with coal or iron at +75% cost and refuse to build essential industrial materials despite having available resources. Before we need autonomous trade we need an ai that actually develops its country.

Theoretically the AI priorities should have them focus on particular industries. Most of the world is just making agriculture tho

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
I'm glad that they recognise that there needs to be something to make economies specialise and that the economic side of the game is too easy. I've enjoyed this game a fair amount but although 1.3 has some cool features I don't see myself playing again until some of the more annoying stuff is addressed (diplomacy being number one, but the general game flow being too easy to navigate is close behind)

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


When I set my production methods to use iron, tools, or coal the autonomous investment usually develops these industries even if I don't put government construction on them. So does the AI just ignore those production methods and never invest in those basic industries?

Ithle01
May 28, 2013
I gotta say though that I have been enjoying agitators, it is adding a lot of fun to the game. The ability to control interest groups and to start political movements is a welcome change so the game is going in the right direction.

As far as I can tell it's in their own countries. The ai autonomous investment seems to make better decisions in my own country than in ai countries that will sit on massive mineral resource deposits (coal, iron, OIL) and then never develop these.

edit: maybe 'never' is too strong a word. German countries look like they're making some coal because I've imported coal from Austria or Prussia a few games, but I'm Finland in my current game and literally every mineral is in demand right now. In Russia.

Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jun 8, 2023

ro5s
Dec 27, 2012

A happy little mouse!

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

When I set my production methods to use iron, tools, or coal the autonomous investment usually develops these industries even if I don't put government construction on them. So does the AI just ignore those production methods and never invest in those basic industries?

I think the problem the AI runs into is that iron is expensive, so the AI doesn't switch to iron tools, so there's not much demand for iron so the AI doesn't build iron, so iron is expensive...

I've seen it late game with stuff like phones. The AI isn't building them so there's no demand for them in the marker so they don't build them until I trade some of my excess in and then there's sudden demand for like 800 phones.

DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!

Ithle01 posted:

New dev diary talks about plans for the future. One of the things I like is autonomous trade routes, but there's an issue here - the ai just doesn't make surpluses. Countries will sit with coal or iron at +75% cost and refuse to build essential industrial materials despite having available resources. Before we need autonomous trade we need an ai that actually develops its country.

Link for convenience: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/victoria-3-dev-diary-89-whats-next-after-1-3.1589178/

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


found something fun, if you set it so that only one factory in the consumer goods category produces luxury goods you can basically laser target the ai to expand that factory, good way to spread attention to a specific state

Koramei
Nov 11, 2011

I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.
I played a couple of games on launch and then fell out of the loop, how have the updates been in the meantime? I saw there's a DLC with predictably mixed reviews on Steam, but I've come to learn that can be basically meaningless with Paradox games.

I enjoyed the game on launch a lot really, but definitely looked forward to improvements. Does the AI perform better in the mid-late game now? Is it any harder for the player to snowball?

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Koramei posted:

I enjoyed the game on launch a lot really, but definitely looked forward to improvements. Does the AI perform better in the mid-late game now? Is it any harder for the player to snowball?

No and no

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




I haven't played since launch, what kinda major changes have there been? Is the DLC good? Finally, are there any good UI/improved gameplay mods? I don't need like, added gameplay but making existing things better is fine.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


The AI definitely performs better, and it's definitely harder to snowball. But that's a testament to how bad it was at launch. I understand if you're saying it's still not good enough, but you could take literally any country and have the worlds largest GDP by the end game, and now you can only do that if you start as a mid sized country or expand real well.

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003
The game got significantly better with the DLC release, but the DLC itself is mostly kind of a France mission tree/themed UI pack. Most of the meat is just in the 1.3 patch, almost all of the meat unless you're specifically FRA.

Ithle01
May 28, 2013
I would like to thank the devs for the presence of opium plantations specifically in Bogota. My cocaine fueled (let's be honest it's cocaine, not opium) armies will conquer the Americas. That being said, I wish there was some lead somewhere nearby because we still need bullets to make this happen.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




Stupid question; can I start as America and release every single state as an independent nation, then release myself as the second to last state, leaving America with just the District of Columbia? Is that possible without unpausing?

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Ithle01 posted:

I would like to thank the devs for the presence of opium plantations specifically in Bogota. My cocaine fueled (let's be honest it's cocaine, not opium) armies will conquer the Americas. That being said, I wish there was some lead somewhere nearby because we still need bullets to make this happen.

Peru has a good-sized lead resource if you feel like taking on Peru-Bolivia.

Ichabod Sexbeast
Dec 5, 2011

Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle

Funky Valentine posted:

Peru has a good-sized lead resource if you feel like taking on Peru-Bolivia.

Yeah if you get Ecuador and Venezuela under your belt early you can do an easy transfer subject war provided none of the big boys jump in

Ithle01
May 28, 2013

Funky Valentine posted:

Peru has a good-sized lead resource if you feel like taking on Peru-Bolivia.

That ended up being the route I went, but did it late. If I want to do Grander Columbia I gotta get moving on conquest earlier it looks like because there are a lot of tiny South American provinces and Austria-Hungary and USA want to fight for each one.

Ichabod Sexbeast
Dec 5, 2011

Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle

Ithle01 posted:

That ended up being the route I went, but did it late. If I want to do Grander Columbia I gotta get moving on conquest earlier it looks like because there are a lot of tiny South American provinces and Austria-Hungary and USA want to fight for each one.

Do you need to grab British/dutch/french guyana for those? Because that might be a job

ThatBasqueGuy
Feb 14, 2013

someone introduce jojo to lazyb


Ichabod Sexbeast posted:

Do you need to grab British/dutch/french guyana for those? Because that might be a job

you do, also the maldives iirc

Ichabod Sexbeast
Dec 5, 2011

Giving 'em the old razzle-dazzle

ThatBasqueGuy posted:

you do, also the maldives iirc

Those are near India, did you mean the Malvinas/Falklands?

e: gently caress it I'll grab the maldives too

Ichabod Sexbeast fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 15, 2023

ThatBasqueGuy
Feb 14, 2013

someone introduce jojo to lazyb


Yeah meant Malvinas (lol) but another port cant hurt either

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




If I'm one of the biggest markets in the game, is it worth trying to get Customs Unions with smaller places? Will they start developing better resources and putting them into the market?

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


Admiral Joeslop posted:

If I'm one of the biggest markets in the game, is it worth trying to get Customs Unions with smaller places? Will they start developing better resources and putting them into the market?
At a certain point what they produce isn't as important as what they consume. More people buying your stuff means more money for your pops.

They will produce stuff and develop, too, but probably not in a particularly optimal way. But every bit helps. If they're just making grain or something that's a bit less you have to produce to keep prices reasonable and you can safely put more people into profitable factories.

It's basically never bad to get more people in your customs union.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




Eiba posted:

At a certain point what they produce isn't as important as what they consume. More people buying your stuff means more money for your pops.

They will produce stuff and develop, too, but probably not in a particularly optimal way. But every bit helps. If they're just making grain or something that's a bit less you have to produce to keep prices reasonable and you can safely put more people into profitable factories.

It's basically never bad to get more people in your customs union.

Is the easiest way to just start improving relations and bankrolling a country until they like me enough to join, probably also owing them all obligation?

I feel like access to water as a resource is something that could've been put in, given the history of water exploitation in the world though I guess maybe the majority of that probably occurs later than the years the game is set.

Ithle01
May 28, 2013

Eiba posted:

At a certain point what they produce isn't as important as what they consume. More people buying your stuff means more money for your pops.

They will produce stuff and develop, too, but probably not in a particularly optimal way. But every bit helps. If they're just making grain or something that's a bit less you have to produce to keep prices reasonable and you can safely put more people into profitable factories.

It's basically never bad to get more people in your customs union.

Big emphasis on "your customs union". Being in someone else's customs union is not as great. Especially if the market center requires port access and your overlord starts stupid fights with GB, USA, or another naval power.

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Stupid question; can I start as America and release every single state as an independent nation, then release myself as the second to last state, leaving America with just the District of Columbia? Is that possible without unpausing?

It doesn't let you get that granular, various regional tags take precedence over state tags. There is/was a mod that started the US as DC and twentysomething subjects, but it didn't work well at all last time I tried it.

Yuiiut
Jul 3, 2022

I've got something to tell you. Something that may shock and discredit you. And that thing is as follows: I'm not wearing a tie at all.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

I feel like access to water as a resource is something that could've been put in, given the history of water exploitation in the world though I guess maybe the majority of that probably occurs later than the years the game is set.

Water rights (especially the Nile and the Congo) should be pre-eminent in colonial concerns, there was no way the British (or any other overlord of Egypt) were going to tolerate another colonial power meddling in Sudan or Uganda

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




Mandoric posted:

It doesn't let you get that granular, various regional tags take precedence over state tags. There is/was a mod that started the US as DC and twentysomething subjects, but it didn't work well at all last time I tried it.

Yeah I went ahead and tried it after finishing my $1b GDP run. You can release a lot of land but not nearly enough.

Instead I started as Spain, any specific tips for them? I immediately made Morocco a Puppet, I'm sure that won't cause any trouble.

Edit: Multiculturalism is much harder now, is it really just RNG to get an agitator or leader or whatever who supports it?

Admiral Joeslop fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jun 17, 2023

DJ_Mindboggler
Nov 21, 2013

Eiba posted:

At a certain point what they produce isn't as important as what they consume. More people buying your stuff means more money for your pops.

They will produce stuff and develop, too, but probably not in a particularly optimal way. But every bit helps. If they're just making grain or something that's a bit less you have to produce to keep prices reasonable and you can safely put more people into profitable factories.

It's basically never bad to get more people in your customs union.

Additionally, non-discriminated pops in your union can migrate freely within the market. Since you'll usually have the best standard of living in your market, you'll siphon their pops in addition to selling the junior members goods. The few games I've been able to get Japan in my CU as America or Britain have seen my population skyrocket as a result.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Instead I started as Spain, any specific tips for them? I immediately made Morocco a Puppet, I'm sure that won't cause any trouble.

Things generally don't have diplomatic repercussions down the line. If something bad happens because of a thing you do, it'll be immediate. As long as you don't hit the magic infamy number, that makes someone like you 1 less than someone else.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice
Hey all, I believe my MP conversion Megacampaign game will be officially playing Victoria 3 starting next week! We're still recruiting for someone to play the role of Greece which is currently the #2 Great Power!



Population:


Laws:


Politics:


A look at its Geopolitical situation:


It's main GP neighbours are the Papal Kingdom, Iberia, Algiers, Bohemia, and Ukraine.

The other Great or Major Powers are of course Novgorod, United Kingdom, India, Croatia and the Netherlands.

Ledger overview of your neighbouurs:



Throughout Europa Universalis IV, Greece had friendly relations with Ukraine and I think Croatia? With intense rivalries with the Papal Kingdom, Iberia, and Algiers; with relations waxing and waning with Bohemia and England but neutral with Novgorod and allied traditionally with the Netherlands.

Presumably your most important neighbours as Ukraine, Croatia, and the Papal Kingdoms; followed by Algiers and Iberia.

I don't know what the traditional Ottoman playthrough priorities are and unlike them you're legitimately one of the most powerful nations. The second most powerful economy, and second most powerful army and navy; and with populations and interest groups being what they are you should have no trouble maintaining your position in the world as long as you play your diplomatic cards right.

Additionally Greece has a bunch of colonies and colonial possessions further extending your reach but also potential enemies.

Maintaining the alliance with Ukraine and Croatia would protect your flanks letting you keep Italy and its allies contained. Or you can bury the hatchet and lurch forward to snatch the number one great power and hegemon of Europe from Bohemia?

Greece stands to reason to be perhaps one of the most interesting and challenging MP nations to play; stand strong as the first amongst equals, or make them bow before Alexander reborn? The choice is yours...

Mod link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2964331593

DM me for the discord invite!

FPyat
Jan 17, 2020

Ithle01 posted:

Big emphasis on "your customs union". Being in someone else's customs union is not as great. Especially if the market center requires port access and your overlord starts stupid fights with GB, USA, or another naval power.

My experience with Joseon is that having the entire Qing market clamoring for your goods is a big boost - as well as the fact that their production will make shortages less of an issue for you in turn.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




Can someone give me the Idiot's Rundown On Trade? Obviously I get a percentage for enacting tariffs on exports and imports, I assume for any routes I open or the AI open. If Free Trade is rolling, what kind of money can I expect to get? If I'm exporting grain that costs my citizens 5 cents, what is another country paying? Whatever their grain cost normally is, reduced by however much they're importing? I feel like I'm often just hitting buttons that say I'll get a positive income but then I don't know how to keep track of it.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Can someone give me the Idiot's Rundown On Trade? Obviously I get a percentage for enacting tariffs on exports and imports, I assume for any routes I open or the AI open. If Free Trade is rolling, what kind of money can I expect to get? If I'm exporting grain that costs my citizens 5 cents, what is another country paying? Whatever their grain cost normally is, reduced by however much they're importing? I feel like I'm often just hitting buttons that say I'll get a positive income but then I don't know how to keep track of it.

Trade basically moves buy/sell orders from one market to another, the price in each market is recalculated based on the change in buy / sell orders between the two markets after the trade has gone ahead. The difference in value in each market is used to generate either income or cost for the trade centre which is facilitating the trade, and the trade centres also pay tariffs where applicable. Trade routes grow if they are profitable and there is enough convoys to increase the size of the trade route.

The impact on market prices is usually more important than the actual trade value generated by trading, so you're usually best off just importing goods you want to be cheap and exporting ones you want to be more expensive than worrying about the raw trade profitability of each good (although you can't grow a trade route which is making a loss)

Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



I do wish there was some automation you could do in setting up trade routes. Things like "setup export routes for these goods in any country where it doesn't cost me monarch power as they pop up" or the reverse would save a **lot** of checking.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010




RabidWeasel posted:

Trade basically moves buy/sell orders from one market to another, the price in each market is recalculated based on the change in buy / sell orders between the two markets after the trade has gone ahead. The difference in value in each market is used to generate either income or cost for the trade centre which is facilitating the trade, and the trade centres also pay tariffs where applicable. Trade routes grow if they are profitable and there is enough convoys to increase the size of the trade route.

The impact on market prices is usually more important than the actual trade value generated by trading, so you're usually best off just importing goods you want to be cheap and exporting ones you want to be more expensive than worrying about the raw trade profitability of each good (although you can't grow a trade route which is making a loss)

I ran into trouble with Wine in my US game; no matter how many farms I built to make wine, demand was always double the supply. No one else in the world seemed to be making wine in appreciable quantities either. Because I had so many farms (that you can't convert to 100% winemaking, or plant fruit specifically for reasons I don't understand besides balance of some kind) I was making something like 30,000 more grain than I could consume.

Standard of Living was around 22 even for the lower pop so it's a real first world problem but was there anything I could do about wine and grain in that situation?

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Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea

Admiral Joeslop posted:

I ran into trouble with Wine in my US game; no matter how many farms I built to make wine, demand was always double the supply. No one else in the world seemed to be making wine in appreciable quantities either. Because I had so many farms (that you can't convert to 100% winemaking, or plant fruit specifically for reasons I don't understand besides balance of some kind) I was making something like 30,000 more grain than I could consume.

Standard of Living was around 22 even for the lower pop so it's a real first world problem but was there anything I could do about wine and grain in that situation?

It's apparently being looked at, here's Wiz on the official forums about it:

quote:

We are currently testing out splitting off a number of PMs into their own building types for a future update to give better control over how much of certain goods you produce.

The point about vineyards generally being placed on lands not suitable for grain is an interesting one though, makes me think about whether we should differentiate "arable land" and "marginal land" or something along those lines.

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