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Bar Crow
Oct 10, 2012

bedpan posted:

guy with a machine gun saying "my allegiance is not determined by politics" and a liberal nodding furiously

Both are happy to watch people die so long as they get paid.

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Clark Nova
Jul 18, 2004

a mercenary is simply a neoliberal who doesn’t insist on a layer of abstraction between themselves and the corpses

Turtle Sandbox
Dec 31, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Clark Nova posted:

a mercenary is simply a neoliberal who doesn’t insist on a layer of abstraction between themselves and the corpses

Mercenaries are professional soldiers who have stopped pretending it's about patriotism and now chase the biggest paychecks.

Technically it makes them some of the smartest soldiers.

DragQueenofAngmar
Dec 29, 2009

You shall not pass!
The world calls for wetwork, and we answered! No greater good. No just cause. Yeah, we were dogs alright.

fits my needs
Jan 1, 2011

Grimey Drawer
https://twitter.com/MilitaryTimes/status/1667279172819877892?s=20

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019


f35 sucked it's own dick

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

If were turning them into solely a light infantry force, why do they need their own airforce?

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

KomradeX posted:

If were turning them into solely a light infantry force, why do they need their own airforce?

Based on the F35B's performance, I assume procuring it was an early part of the strategy to make sure the Marines would only be able to field light infantry

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020

I am owned a funny shaky cam ejection video.

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019


😳

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

The Oldest Man posted:

Based on the F35B's performance, I assume procuring it was an early part of the strategy to make sure the Marines would only be able to field light infantry

"light infantry" is a codeword for "we can't even beat the municipal chinese cops if we tried"

GlassEye-Boy
Jul 12, 2001

Palladium posted:

"light infantry" is a codeword for "we can't even beat the municipal chinese cops if we tried"

People's armed police maybe :)

Municipal Chinese cops don't have guns because they aren't a police state.

Grognan
Jan 23, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
so is the nypd more or less armed than the marines are now

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Palladium posted:

"light infantry" is a codeword for "we can't even beat the municipal chinese cops if we tried"

I'll get around to posting more about this, but NATO went through the exact same thing in the 70's - early 80's as they realized they were outmatched by Soviet ground forces, before deciding that technology was their saviour. There were huge doctrinal debates about converting NATO to a light infantry force, without even tanks or fixed wing aircraft.

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005

Frosted Flake posted:

I'll get around to posting more about this, but NATO went through the exact same thing in the 70's - early 80's as they realized they were outmatched by Soviet ground forces, before deciding that technology was their saviour. There were huge doctrinal debates about converting NATO to a light infantry force, without even tanks or fixed wing aircraft.

to what purpose? fixating on light infantry seems odd. was the thought that the future was small scale skirmishes and/or nuclear exchange, and anything in between was a waste of money?

Complications
Jun 19, 2014

Delta-Wye posted:

to what purpose? fixating on light infantry seems odd. was the thought that the future was small scale skirmishes and/or nuclear exchange, and anything in between was a waste of money?

light infantry is super cheap which leaves more budget for pure profit free market efficiencies

Clark Nova
Jul 18, 2004

Delta-Wye posted:

to what purpose? fixating on light infantry seems odd. was the thought that the future was small scale skirmishes and/or nuclear exchange, and anything in between was a waste of money?

maybe they wanted to be 100% gladio cells

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Clark Nova posted:

maybe they wanted to be 100% gladio cells

It was definitely this

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

usmc replacing all the artillery with himars is a great way to satisfy both mba brain (less staffing) and mic brain (more money spent)

re: light and heavy infantry, what’s the definitions? usmc has a lot of machine guns in a platoon and lots of mortars so I’ve figured it was heavy infantry but I don’t really know the meanings

The Oldest Man
Jul 28, 2003

Best Friends posted:

usmc replacing all the artillery with himars is a great way to satisfy both mba brain (less staffing) and mic brain (more money spent)

re: light and heavy infantry, what’s the definitions? usmc has a lot of machine guns in a platoon and lots of mortars so I’ve figured it was heavy infantry but I don’t really know the meanings

Heavy infantry is referring to like, a phalanx

These days the "other" kind of infantry in the US besides light infantry (guys) would be mechanized (guys in nominally armored vehicles like APCs or IFVs). "Light" these days means your infantry formation is generally not bringing its own organic fighting vehicles or armor, although the US's constant imperial wars and distaste for casualties has meant nominally 'light' formations slowly mutating into formations that have all the logistics footprint of a mechanized unit with none of the up-side except the guys in the truck probably live when a bomb goes off under it.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

gradenko_2000 posted:

It was definitely this

It was indeed.







- "This ex-colonel had been a general staff officer of the Wehrmacht during the Second World War"
- "As a member of the Pommeranian nobility, he was steeped in traditional values."
- "to be manned by those old Wehrmacht cadres still fit for service."
- "Behind closed doors, Adenauer, the majority of Christian Demo- crat MPs, and von Bonin's colleagues in the rapidly evolving defence establishment were not as concerned about German unity as they stated in public."
- "In the eyes of the new elite, the Bonin plan impeded the build-up of heavily armoured forces, necessary to gain a respect- able stand, and bargaining power, in NATO, which West Germany was on the verge of joining."
- "A new debate about 'defensive defence' was initiated during the second half of the 1980s on a much smaller scale."
- "Other advocates of an alternative defence - most of them retired military men whose contributions appeared during the late 1970s and early 1980s - stuck to the more traditional concept of exclusive orientation towards aggression from the East."
- "Loser seems to put more stress on the no target philosophy than on non-provocation. His mobile teams are capable of tactical infiltration which might be perceived as a strategic challenge by the opponent."
- "Study Group on Alternative Security Policy (SAS). The former is committed to comp- lementing NATO's present posture by adding 'reactive elements',"
- "Only one of their national leaders, Fritz Erler, had no prejudices against the nonconformist Pommeranian nobleman."






- "independent group of organisation specialists, economists, technologists, military tacticians (active officers), public servants and younger politicians."
- "German ex-pilot and industrial adviser Norbert Hannig"
- "no need for early reaction in times of crisis,"

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 06:47 on Jun 10, 2023

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

I guess the Wunderwaffe aren't so wunder

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Lol jesus christ the Prussian general staff never went away

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
light infantry covers everything from airborne infantry (ride in a plane to the fight), mountain infantry, motorized infantry (ride in trucks, jeeps, etc to the fight) and leg infantry (walk to the fight, because you don't have the logistical backbone for POL)

in the west we developed an intensely stupid belief in the 'warrior' qualities and elan of light infantry, mostly because everybody knew soviet motor-rifle formations were going to walk right over NATO's relatively pathetic attempts at mechanized infantry so we had to pretend that was fine, light infantry are better anyway

generation kill has a subplot throughout in demonstrating this tendency in the us military

atelier morgan has issued a correction as of 08:44 on Jun 10, 2023

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Frosted Flake posted:

It was indeed.

fascinating excerpts ("emotional assaults by the majority!"). lol at sdi being reborn under trump and elevated under Biden

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Development_Agency

quote:

The SDA has mostly avoided flaws that plagued earlier proliferated missile defense programs such as Brilliant Pebbles. The Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty was a major impediment in the past, as these systems were deemed non-compliant with the treaty by Congress.[4] However, George W. Bush withdrew the United States from the treaty in 2002, eliminating this barrier.[14] Over the years, launch and manufacturing costs have been greatly reduced. SDIO research on the DC-X has since led to commercial reusable launch vehicles such as SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket.[15] Meanwhile mass manufacturing as with Starlink has proven the potential for lower satellite build costs.[12]

Political and administrative opposition to SDA came from 24th Secretary of the Air Force Heather Wilson who argued that "launching hundreds of cheap satellites into theater as a substitute for the complex architectures where we provide key capabilities to the warfighter will result in failure on America's worst day if relied upon alone."[13] Members of Congress also gave concerns that SDA would drain resources and jobs from Air Force and questioned why DoD had to create a separate organization to circumvent its own procurement process. Despite the pushback, the Pentagon did not require congressional authorization to create the SDA, and Wilson was overruled by Patrick M. Shanahan, who became acting defense secretary by appointment of Donald Trump. He placed the new agency under the authority and control of Mike Griffin who was also appointed as Under Secretary of Defense (R&E).[3]

Despite these early success, SDA still faces critical challenges. The Union of Concerned Scientists warned SDA could escalate tensions with Russia and China and called the project "fundamentally destabilizing".[16] Both China and Russia brought concerns to the United Nations about the U.S. plans for militarization of space.[17] The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace has advocated for better use of arms control and international agreements such as a treaty halting related development by all parties to prevent an arms race in space.[18]

Critics have reiterated longstanding concerns that ground-based lasers can easily "paint" satellites in low Earth orbit, temporarily blinding their sensors. The APS reporting the energy needed for this is very low.[19] Likewise, RF jamming is simpler when communication and radar satellites are in lower altitudes as less power is needed to saturate their low-noise amplifiers. It is also far easier to launch an anti-satellite weapon to destroy satellites in low Earth orbit (as demonstrated with small ASM-135 or RIM-161 missiles) given much less energy is required to kinetically intersect than to enter and maintain orbit. An adversary would simply need to "punch a hole" in the constellation immediately before launching an attack.[20][16][21] When the Biden Administration took ownership of the program in 2021, they appeared to take heed of these concerns[22] but still signed on to a $500M increase for the agency in the FY2023 spending bill.[23]

SDA awarded its first contracts in August 2020. Lockheed Martin received $188 million and York Space Systems received $94 million to each build 10 data relay satellites for its transport layer. In October 2020, SDA chose SpaceX and L3Harris Technologies to develop a deluxe military version of the Starlink satellite bus, later named Starshield.[24] The initial tranche of satellites were originally scheduled to launch September 2022.[11] However, the initial launch slipped due to supply-chain issues for microelectronics such as radios,[25] software problems, and protests by Raytheon and Airbus over procurement and evaluation process.[26] SDA industry partners now include SpaceX, L3Harris Technologies, Northrop Grumman, Ball Aerospace and General Dynamics.[13]

A number of experimental satellites were launched in 2021. SDA plans to test some of the key technologies in a series of on-orbit experiments that went up on Transporter-2: Mandrake 2, the Laser Interconnect and Networking Communications System (LINCS), and the Prototype On-orbit Experimental Testbed (POET).[27]

SDA’s current schedule expects Tranche 0 capability[b][c] will be on orbit in time to support a summer 2023 demonstration.[26][28][29][30]

I hope Elon Musk is involved in its failure

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
I guess the question is how Marines would actually be used, because the US Navy still has a ton of amphibious warfare/support ships in its fleet that need to be maintained and protected. I guess the marines are supposed to land on SCS atolls and hold them without access to heavy equipment? How are they going to be used elsewhere in a peer to peer fight?

Grognan
Jan 23, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
the one thing with assets in orbit is that you really need to avoid referencing them because they can't be defended once spotted. spy sat cameras probably don't work if you shine a laser at them. I think this is slowing down the war front in space as it is.

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

it's really annoying when people drop the article before initialisms -- "SDA will do this," "I will close FDA," etc. instead of saying "the SDA" and so on. I think they just do is because they think it sounds cool. just write like a normal loving person who learned the basics as a child.

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
The NATO will lose ww3

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
Stupid bitch thinking English has any hard and fast rules

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

Cuttlefush posted:

Stupid bitch thinking English has any hard and fast rules

there are different rules for initialisms that can be pronounced as words, gently caress wad!!

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
NPR

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Cuttlefush posted:

The NATO will lose ww3

You can't kill the NATO
NATO will live on
The Soviets tried to kill the NATO
But they failed! As they were smite to the ground!

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
USA will lose thee WW3

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Ardennes posted:

I guess the question is how Marines would actually be used, because the US Navy still has a ton of amphibious warfare/support ships in its fleet that need to be maintained and protected. I guess the marines are supposed to land on SCS atolls and hold them without access to heavy equipment? How are they going to be used elsewhere in a peer to peer fight?

those SCS naval mines we are bitching we have no countermeasures for all the time will disappear once things get real, because free market efficiencies

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019

the cspam


really though. if someone says "CIA" or "FBI" instead of "the CIA" or "the FBI" respectively it's because they are or wish they were one of them

mawarannahr has issued a correction as of 09:45 on Jun 10, 2023

Weka
May 5, 2019

That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Ardennes posted:

I guess the question is how Marines would actually be used, because the US Navy still has a ton of amphibious warfare/support ships in its fleet that need to be maintained and protected. I guess the marines are supposed to land on SCS atolls and hold them without access to heavy equipment? How are they going to be used elsewhere in a peer to peer fight?

I guess as a screening force aka generation kill

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

Weka posted:

I guess as a screening force aka generation kill

It seems like a bit of a waste, to be honest, considering the Marines are still going to have their own budget. Previously, Marines could at least fill in gaps as a "second army" even if it was a bit awkward.

I guess the answer is the Marines simply don't have the same pull with the MIC as the Army/Air Force/Navy so they have been made semi-redundant.

Maed
Aug 23, 2006


the ukraine is correct though

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Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

atelier morgan posted:

light infantry covers everything from airborne infantry (ride in a plane to the fight), mountain infantry, motorized infantry (ride in trucks, jeeps, etc to the fight) and leg infantry (walk to the fight, because you don't have the logistical backbone for POL)

in the west we developed an intensely stupid belief in the 'warrior' qualities and elan of light infantry, mostly because everybody knew soviet motor-rifle formations were going to walk right over NATO's relatively pathetic attempts at mechanized infantry so we had to pretend that was fine, light infantry are better anyway

generation kill has a subplot throughout in demonstrating this tendency in the us military

I feel like this happens every 5 years in the Canadian Army and it's exhausting. Australia is the same way, they cut their order for new LAVs to a quarter in their latest defence review. "Acquisition of the Land Combat Vehicle System (Infantry Fighting Vehicle), should be reduced from 450 to 129 vehicles to provide one mechanised battalion".
"Acquisition of a second regiment of K9 self-propelled howitzers, should be immediately cancelled."

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