|
The Helltides are probably a little too good now for how well they award loot / XP / obols all at once. Not saying they should be made worse just that other game modes should be improved. Whispers become obsolete almost by the time you're even the recommended level of 70 to start WT4.
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 16:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 16:23 |
|
|
Astryl posted:It was marketed as an ARPG, but is very obviously a MMOARPG a la Lost Ark. It's definitely not quite as mmo as Lost Ark but obviously some things are inspired by LA stuff. I'd personally love to see some more challenging big boss/dungeon poo poo like LA has, just don't go anywhere near that fuckin grind
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:02
|
|
|
The game is getting a huge pass for being Diablo and made by Blizzard. If this was random ARPG by random developer it wouldn't have fared nearly as good with reviewers and I feel it would be received much more harshly by the community. The game made a few solid innovations but also holding on 20 year old concepts in several places that bog the game down. A lot of people are waiting to see what the first season looks like, and I hope it's a solid entry and received well. But this game needed to launch with a solid endgame loop just like it's competitors have, and night mare dungeons ain't it, not in the current iteration. Them making a casual game and loading it up with limited time cosmetics in cross promotions with other organizations/companies and tapping into the gamer dad FOMO is some lol and ingenious poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:03
|
|
|
Renown not carrying over is gonna be really obnoxious, maybe they'll fix that or at least swap the tier4/5 rewards. The barb disables the last few days have kinda killed my interest in messing with endgame stuff, I was going to start an alt but think I'll just wait til season 1 and try a diff class. Having to touch al lthe altars was really dumb and I'm glad I never have to do it again, just wish I didn't have to do it at all for BEST STATS. Zotix posted:
Sorry for the edit/question, but as someone who has never really done ARPG endgame stuff, what does the loop normally look like? D3 was rifts, which appear in videos to just be NM dungeons but shorter? POE has maps, which AFAIK are just NM dungeons as well? Are there more affixes/things going on to get these going? Just curious what good ARPGS use for endgame because D4s endgame feels very monotonous and unchallenging.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:04
|
|
|
The people who are enjoying the game and having fun aren't actually enjoying it or having fun. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:04
|
|
|
I just wonder if they are going to increase the monster density when the season starts
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:07
|
|
|
I'm actually enjoying going round the world getting the Lilith statues. Doing a few cellars and the occasional side quest and revealing the map. Obviously getting renown at the same time. Doesn't feel like a grind at all. It would be nice if there was some system that buzzed when near a statue though because you do need a map for sure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:08
|
|
|
paragon board and glyphs are more interesting than I expected from seeing them on paper gaining a point or two can turn on a bunch of power which feels good, and you can reconfigure them to match a new build without much trouble (barring the idiocy of not being able to unspec whole boards, but I'm assuming that'll happen at some point) I've been noodling around in torment playing various builds, they've felt substantially different (and fun), but I'd expect a season 1 patch to tune up some of the underperformers game is extremely well set up for More Stuff aspects glyphs and passives seem like obvious low hanging fruit for seasons, stuff like new skills, uniques, paragon boards, classes, etc will probably be expansion material, but who knows, maybe a few here and there I really have no idea what to expect from the seasons as a whole, or these early seasons, like none at all - there's so many directions they could go with seasons, from borrowed power to permanent additions to the world and classes will the first seasons be low effort? expansive? got me, I'm certainly curious
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
acumen posted:It's definitely not quite as mmo as Lost Ark but obviously some things are inspired by LA stuff. I'd personally love to see some more challenging big boss/dungeon poo poo like LA has, just don't go anywhere near that fuckin grind Always blown my mind that Angelinos have a literal dungeon in their city. Air quality is poo poo, it's an earthquake zone and they have to take down a loving midboss every time they wanna get across town? hosed up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
D3s endgame is practically the same thing. Instead of doing nightmare dungeons to level glyphs you're doing greater rifts to level jewels. Instead of rifts for brainless skeleton exploding you have regular dungeons and Helltides. Instead of bounties you have... better QoL bounties. Either way it's just making number go up, one just has a decade of additional itemization to make things a bit more varied.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
faantastic posted:Renown not carrying over is gonna be really obnoxious, maybe they'll fix that or at least swap the tier4/5 rewards. The game straight up feels like it wasn't tested. However I keep hearing from people who were in the end game beta last year that these bugs were in place then which if true is mind boggling. I have concerns about the readiness of the D4 love team to carry the game forward. Huge needs and disabling of key components of builds is a tough pill to swallow, but poo poo like this shouldn't happen mid league. They need to have their balancing squared away pre-league. The fact glyphs were nerfed 50-70% 48 hours after early access launched is some incredibly questionable balancing. Like those aren't slight nerfs that's a massive cut to player power and raises so many questions. Do they even have an internal testing team? If so, are they listening to them? Where is the disconnect? 4 of 5 classes had big gameplay altering balancing done that same patch on top of the glyphs, why are the balancing changes so drastic?
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
Ms. Chanandler Bong posted:I'm actually enjoying going round the world getting the Lilith statues. Doing a few cellars and the occasional side quest and revealing the map. Obviously getting renown at the same time. Doesn't feel like a grind at all. It would be nice if there was some system that buzzed when near a statue though because you do need a map for sure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:10
|
|
|
American McGay posted:The people who are enjoying the game and having fun aren't actually enjoying it or having fun. they're the kind of people who like bad MMOs and Ubisoft games
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:10
|
|
|
boredsatellite posted:I just wonder if they are going to increase the monster density when the season starts How high are the nightmare dungeons you're running? I am seeing some very large mobs of enemies at this stage in the game.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:11
|
|
|
crepeface posted:i didn't follow any of the marketing and i didn't play Lost Ark (or PoE for that matter), i just expected diablo. is this a serious post? This game feels more like D1 and D2 than D3 did, but the entirety of the genre has changed, Diablo with it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:13
|
|
|
American McGay posted:My main issue I'm running into is the 20 cap on side quests. I don't actively seek them out but I'll do them if I'm in the area, but I'm running into a lot of quests I can't activate until I finish what I've already got in progress. Agreed I'm also at the cap right now and it seems stupid, cos I want to collect all I can to do them later. Not sure what the purpose is.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:13
|
|
|
explosivo posted:How high are the nightmare dungeons you're running? I am seeing some very large mobs of enemies at this stage in the game. I'm doing tier 70/80 nightmare dungeons and they are still pretty lackluster.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:13
|
|
|
victrix posted:paragon board and glyphs are more interesting than I expected from seeing them on paper I also really like the paragon board with the glyph system. And giving one every quarter level makes so much sense.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:15
|
|
|
I just want Blizzard to increase the damage output of all skills across the board, minus any bugs where you're doing 100,000,000,000 damage.Ms. Chanandler Bong posted:I also really like the paragon board with the glyph system. And giving one every quarter level makes so much sense. Yeah this makes the slow leveling not so bad.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:16
|
|
|
faantastic posted:Sorry for the edit/question, but as someone who has never really done ARPG endgame stuff, what does the loop normally look like? D3 was rifts, which appear in videos to just be NM dungeons but shorter? POE has maps, which AFAIK are just NM dungeons as well? Are there more affixes/things going on to get these going? Just curious what good ARPGS use for endgame because D4s endgame feels very monotonous and unchallenging. I'm kind of wondering the same thing because this is the first ARPG I've wanted to actually go into the endgame with, and from my understanding it's basically just a loop of running harder and harder dungeons and making better and better builds until you get bored. What makes a "good" arpg engame? From my reading in this thread it feels like basically "Vampire Survivors but with gearscore" is the ideal for endgame dungeons but not sure.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:16
|
|
|
Zotix posted:The game straight up feels like it wasn't tested. However I keep hearing from people who were in the end game beta last year that these bugs were in place then which if true is mind boggling. You clearly haven't played Hearthstone. They release a new expansion, poo poo is nerfed within 48 hours. Not a lot, but still one would think some things are fairly obvious. At the same time, I will always appreciate their efforts to continue to work on D3 until it became a playable game instead of dumping the entire franchise like EA did with Sim City.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:16
|
|
|
CuddleCryptid posted:I'm kind of wondering the same thing because this is the first ARPG I've wanted to actually go into the endgame with, and from my understanding it's basically just a loop of running harder and harder dungeons and making better and better builds until you get bored. What makes a "good" arpg engame? Seasons will change this, we don't know how yet though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:17
|
|
|
CuddleCryptid posted:I'm kind of wondering the same thing because this is the first ARPG I've wanted to actually go into the endgame with, and from my understanding it's basically just a loop of running harder and harder dungeons and making better and better builds until you get bored. What makes a "good" arpg engame? poe players want more poe I guess Or D2 players want more baal runs? I don't know arpg players have some serious brainworms
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
faantastic posted:
PoE currently has: Mapping which is nightmare dungeons but with actual risk and reward mechanics. Delve which is an endless dungeon that you can push as deep as your build can handle. Heist which is a mode where you loot chests, grab an item at the end and escape with it. Expedition which is a loot bonanza where you path out demolition charges to juice monsters and chests and are also able to spend currency on items. Blight which is a tower defense mode. Incursion where you build a custom temple with loot and interesting mechanics that you want to add to it They also have several in map mechanics that you can choose to spec into depending on how fun/lucrative you find them: breach, legion, abyss, metamorph, delirium, beastiary, syndicate and others. Also nearly everything mentioned has smaller in map gameplay, as well as a larger more complex mechanic out of the maps. I don't think that D4 needed to launch as a clone of PoE but it's mapping system is incredibly barebones, unfun, lacks rewards for increasing difficulty. PoE has had 10 years and 40 leagues to add all of this. But D4 has also had 5 years of development, a massive budget and it looks like almost all of it went into the campaign and then it falls apart shortly after entering WT4. Zotix fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jun 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
acumen posted:Or D2 players want more baal runs? I don't know arpg players have some serious brainworms Let me summon bosses to fight and/or go fight campaign bosses again. D2 brainworms are real. Zotix posted:The fact glyphs were nerfed 50-70% 48 hours after early access launched is some incredibly questionable balancing. Like those aren't slight nerfs that's a massive cut to player power and raises so many questions. Do they even have an internal testing team? If so, are they listening to them? Where is the disconnect? 4 of 5 classes had big gameplay altering balancing done that same patch on top of the glyphs, why are the balancing changes so drastic? Someone reaching level 100 in two days was obviously not intended and that's why this was nerfed so hard. Additionally small testing vs. large amounts of players all trying to break the game as fast as possible usually results in stuff like this coming to light that may not have otherwise. Zotix posted:PoE currently has: Zotix, I will never understand PoE brainworms and you will likely never understand D2 brainworms. How is complexity for the sake of complexity, fun? (no, I won't play PoE). Astryl fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jun 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:24
|
|
|
Astryl posted:How is complexity for the sake of complexity, fun? (no, I won't play PoE). It's not the complexity that people like about Path of Exile, it's that it has a large number of progression checkpoints and you work towards each one as you get stronger. Diablo IV is doing this too, but it's not quite right just yet, things like capstone dungeons are a step in the right direction.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:29
|
|
|
Astryl posted:Additionally small testing vs. large amounts of players all trying to break the game as fast as possible usually results in stuff like this coming to light that may not have otherwise. So nerf normal dungeons then. This poo poo isn't rocket science. People shouldn't be spamming white dungeons on repeat to max level, and then do nightmare dungeons at 100 to finish glyphs then. Nightmare dungeons are the current core endgame loop and they massively fall short because they lack the risk reward system of PoE mapping or Last Epochs echos. The harder a NM dungeons is the more exp and loot should be had. Right now it's 4 negative affixes with one positive ga.eplay enhancement. No loot juice, no mob density/exp juice. Somplayers will naturally say gently caress that and go champions demise spam. Ziz and his crew had a 2h podcast with Wudijo the day of launch. They sat there for 2h just picking his brain on everything. It's obvious that there isn't a functioning internal test team and they are relying on the community to figure everything out while they whack a mole poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:29
|
|
|
faantastic posted:Sorry for the edit/question, but as someone who has never really done ARPG endgame stuff, what does the loop normally look like? D3 was rifts, which appear in videos to just be NM dungeons but shorter? POE has maps, which AFAIK are just NM dungeons as well? Are there more affixes/things going on to get these going? Just curious what good ARPGS use for endgame because D4s endgame feels very monotonous and unchallenging. I'll offer a metaphor. POE has different "tracks", try imagining you're playing monopoly but with 15 different boards. Whenever the game asks you to choose your next course of action, your actions initally can act, with low efficiency, on a single board. Along all these boards there are unlocks that allow you to have more efficiency, allowing you to choose to go vertical (= gaining stuff on a single board) or horizontal (= gaining stuff among multiple boards). The board tracks are extremely long, too, and hidden along the way are secrect shortcuts and slot machines that will give you a boost, but only upon winning gambles. We're comparing apple and oranges here - POE was released 10 years ago - but that's how ARPGs structure their endgames: with a long track to meaningful goals, with substructures of less meaningful goals, and different paths to get there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:32
|
|
|
acumen posted:D3s endgame is practically the same thing. Instead of doing nightmare dungeons to level glyphs you're doing greater rifts to level jewels. Instead of rifts for brainless skeleton exploding you have regular dungeons and Helltides. Instead of bounties you have... better QoL bounties. Either way it's just making number go up, one just has a decade of additional itemization to make things a bit more varied. D3 rifts and greater rifts had a lot more variety in terms of tilesets and encounters and it had the speed run mechanic. in D4, the dungeon mechanic (find the bloodstones or keys or whatever) and monsters are the same every time (except for the affixes). maybe it'll be different at higher sigils but I've found them pretty boring so far
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:32
|
|
|
Zotix posted:It's obvious that there isn't a functioning internal test team and they are relying on the community to figure everything out while they whack a mole poo poo. Tbf, this has been obvious since they started during quarterly dev updates and responding to community feedback in 2019. If they had a clear vision of what their game should be a multi-billion dollar company wouldn't be asking the community for input and instead be saying "TRUST US PLS".
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:32
|
|
|
My verisimilitude 
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:32
|
|
|
I've been thinking about trying a different druid build but it kinda sucks that I really feel locked in once I get so far down the paragon tree just because of how much I'd have to refund and no sets or filters means I'm doing double duty when scanning through all of the loot I'm getting. It's the kind of thing that you can't really do until you have all the pieces in place. I guess you could always knock it down a WT or two to build up loot after respeccing your skills/paragon points but it seems like a huge hassle.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:33
|
|
|
You can abandon old side quests by right clicking them, so you can do the one in front of you
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:33
|
|
|
Astryl posted:Additionally small testing vs. large amounts of players all trying to break the game as fast as possible usually results in stuff like this coming to light that may not have otherwise. This kind of argument is ok for certain things but falls apart for others. You're telling me not one person in either their design or testing team realized glyphs were overpowered by 30-66% the whole time they were making them?
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:34
|
|
|
Clocks posted:This kind of argument is ok for certain things but falls apart for others. You're telling me not one person in either their design or testing team realized glyphs were overpowered by 30-66% the whole time they were making them? Where's the line for "probably knew, but corporate would not delay release?" As soon as it was public though they had to hotfix it. They still haven't fixed the Lilith statue that spawns hundreds of monsters because you can't actually kill/farm them but if someone finds out how to I'm sure it'll be gone tomorrow. I'm not even defending them, I expect this game to be like Diablo 3 and take a year + an expansion to really take shape. I'm just surprised so many people weren't expecting that.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:37
|
|
|
I'm just glad the game is not the dumpster fire that Diablo III was at release. D4 regardless of the issues it has right now, is so much better than that mess. It's actually playable.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:38
|
|
|
Zotix posted:PoE currently has: You should go play the absolutely dreadful path of exile game and quit seething in this thread to be sure
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:40
|
|
|
That Little Demon posted:You should go play the absolutely dreadful path of exile game and quit seething in this thread to be sure imagine being mad that people are suggesting D4 can learn from the other popular arpg on the market
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:42
|
|
|
What really blows my mind is that they had all this time and the story is absolute garbage. Makes zero sense, provides world building that doesn't gel with previous world building, the characters are all stupid caricatures and Lilith's motives aren't even stated at any point! Either just admit you don't care about the campaign and are only working towards endgame gameplay and dump it, or put some actual effort into it. This middle ground is just strange considering the time and resources that are available to them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 16:23 |
|
|
the campaign was cool actually as is the rest of Diablo IV mostly
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2023 17:44
|
|
