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Splint Chesthair posted:Which is extra-weird because Miguel insists Miles was never supposed to be Spider-Man. So why does he also insist Miles needs to have a canon event? Does he need it to make him more Spider-Manny? because, while that Miles wasn't supposed to be Spider-Man he is now which means he has to play by the rules everyone else does. Which gets to the other theme of the movie. People telling the younger generation that how it happened to them is how its supposed to happen like the guidance counselor telling Miles the exact way he's supposed to get into college. You see it all the time across every field. The hospitals telling interns they need to spend 48 hours on call because that's what they did. The production assistant being told they have to shut up and eat the poo poo because that's how the system works. It's a reinforcement of institutional abuse that propagates itself because the people who initially suffered it won't admit there might have been a healthier way to go about it
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Jun 12, 2023 19:39
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I think this whole canon event stuff is basically the dark flip side to the quite common trope that you have to accept bad events because our scars define us and ultimately make us into better people. You just need to look at the Flash to see an example of a movie seemingly intent on playing that trope straight. The point being that while it is a positive thing to take a tragedy and find what good it leads to, the fact that this incident was important to your story doesn't mean you have the right to write other people's stories in your own image, and erase people's agency in their own lives. At least that's what I read in it. The fact that Miles was originally "always an anomaly" doesn't free him, it means simply that Miguel is going to have to work extra hard to pound that square peg into the round hole. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jun 12, 2023 |
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Jun 12, 2023 19:41
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FlamingLiberal posted:To me it’s pretty clear that Spider-Man 2099 is not a reliable source for any of this Sefer posted:
Splint Chesthair posted:Which is extra-weird because Miguel insists Miles was never supposed to be Spider-Man. So why does he also insist Miles needs to have a canon event? Does he need it to make him more Spider-Manny? He was never supposed to be Spider-Man, but he is now so he's in it
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Jun 12, 2023 19:42
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Sefer posted:Something I only really noticed on a second viewing: Miguel's theme music is incredibly close to the Prowler's. As others have said, Miguel is probably a tremendously unreliable narrator and just made assumptions based on his personal experiences. Obviously they could change things, but from what I recall about the original 2099 run, Miguel’s life doesn’t exactly mirror Peter’s, and even Miles comments “Are you sure you’re really a Spider-Man?” when he sees/hears all the crazy stuff Miguel can do that other Spiders can’t. I wouldn’t be surprised if the third film reveals that Miguel is more a big fanboy of the original Peter from his timeline and that he created the idea of canon events after to make it seem like he fits more into the Spider-man mold than he actually does.
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Jun 12, 2023 19:43
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Yeah there has to be something else going on here
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Jun 12, 2023 19:44
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:because, while that Miles wasn't supposed to be Spider-Man he is now which means he has to play by the rules everyone else does. Similar to this is the rule-breaking. Miles is told in that counselor scene you can't have your cake and eat it, too. He flippantly says just get two cakes, which becomes a literal joke later but is actually what he's going to do in the third film. Or the rule about not telling your loved ones your secret identity. It turns out that's the thing that actually saves Gwen's dad. Hobie Brown is the key to saving the day and he doesn't follow the rules, not even his own. You want a story with a young Spider-Man? It's not just an age number or whether he's in high school, it's the themes and attitudes of the movie and this movie is as teenaged as it can be. gently caress the rules, screw tradition, colour outside the lines, and the olds can't be relied on to save the future.
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Jun 12, 2023 19:50
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The Movie is explicitly telling you that adherence to canon is bullshit. Like if you try and you fail, then poo poo happens, and you grow and learn from it, but you don't let let bad poo poo happen without trying to stop it, just because "it's supposed to" Also Miguel is probably just evil, lol and is benefiting somehow from the misery and pain of the other spiders. Like he was clearly doing inheritor poo poo with that vampire thing.
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Jun 12, 2023 20:03
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Sharkopath posted:Yeah spiderverse got bumped from most imax but it's still playing at the theaters. It's only the 2nd week. Yeah I checked again and there's still some showings this week now. Even if I can't get my friends this time around, I'm going in for another rewatch!
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Jun 12, 2023 20:05
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The argument against Miguel just being a flat-out unreliable crazy person narrator would be that, well, apparently "canon events" are in fact real, mappable, measurable phenomena of the universe that you can objectively predict with machines somehow. So...something is happening. Police captain deaths have some sort of empirically-observable effect on the physics of reality, somehow. ...Either that, or Lyla's some sort of evil mastermind who's been bamboozling everyone all along? I mean, despite saying that I'd like for all this to be revealed as bullshit, I do also think that revealing all of this as bullshit might be a really unsatisfying way to resolve the conundrum they set up. After all this, I don't really think we can just walk back on everything by declaring that, haha just kidding, Miguel was just a stupid dumb person who was wrong about everything.
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Jun 12, 2023 20:16
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No, Miguel is not evil. As to my guess what happens is that Miles' dad is saved and this does start to cause the multiverse to collapse. But they then talk to Spot and get him to help save everyone.
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Jun 12, 2023 20:32
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I think what's going to happen is that Miguel and his crew are going to be the ones responsible for putting Miles' dad in danger in like a timeloop way, i.e. the people who supposedly know the story of Spider-Man the best and trying to keep things a certain way are actually making things worse!
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Jun 12, 2023 20:48
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Lobok posted:Similar to this is the rule-breaking. Miles is told in that counselor scene you can't have your cake and eat it, too. He flippantly says just get two cakes, which becomes a literal joke later but is actually what he's going to do in the third film. Or the rule about not telling your loved ones your secret identity. It turns out that's the thing that actually saves Gwen's dad. Hobie Brown is the key to saving the day and he doesn't follow the rules, not even his own. The scene writes itself too. Miguel has him pinned and says something like that, Miles says "make two cakes", and Prowler Miles comes out and tackles Miguel.
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Jun 12, 2023 21:28
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Vandar posted:Luna Snow? Really? Now the current update is that Jennie's agency denied there was ever such an offer, but an "Insider" for Marvel shared that Marvel and Jennie's agency had been in discussions for over a year about casting her, but it ultimately fell through. So yeah, while all that is (surprise!) baseless bullshit, people seem pretty drat sure that there is an Agents of Atlas project that is being worked on at Marvel, potentially another Disney+ series. I guess if there are concrete plans for such a project, we'll find out in the next couple months.
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Jun 12, 2023 21:50
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Opopanax posted:The scene writes itself too. Miguel has him pinned and says something like that, Miles says "make two cakes", and Prowler Miles comes out and tackles Miguel. Speaking of callbacks, I can't believe miles didn't say Hey when he zapped Miguel off the train
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Jun 12, 2023 21:58
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site posted:Speaking of callbacks, I can't believe miles didn't say Hey when he zapped Miguel off the train Probably a huge temptation to do it again but Nah, I'ma Do My Own Thing was an instant classic.
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Jun 12, 2023 23:12
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Arist posted:Gotta admit, while I have seen some occasional grousing I'm rather pleasantly surprised the fanbase has so willingly bought into the idea that most Spider-people, fan favorites like the Spectacular and Insomniac Spideys included, would side with Miguel. If the movie was even a little bit less stellar overall there'd probably be a massive firestorm about that. It's fine, each one is from an alternate universe immediately adjacent to the fan favorite universe, with the only difference being that this universe's Spider-Man is willing to entertain Miguel's idea.
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Jun 13, 2023 00:03
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Peter is book smart but he doesn't always have those day-to-day common sense smarts. Arguably the greatest Spider-Man story of all time kicks off because he didn't see a problem with donating his radioactive mutated blood to Aunt May.
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Jun 13, 2023 00:12
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Dude thought walking into an alien costume machine was going to end well
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Jun 13, 2023 01:38
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On this note the only other critique I have is that unfortunately Peter B. came off pretty badly in this film. I don't care about literally every other of the million Spider-Mans being "portrayed wrong," what with them unthinkingly choosing to let Miles' dad die, but it's a very bad look for Peter B in particular. The only way you kind of accept it is if he thinks Miles' whole universe will...might?...get wiped if it doesn't happen, which kind of explains why they even made those stakes so large in the first place, even though -- again -- those stakes being so large do stretch sense and credulity a bit. *shrug*
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Jun 13, 2023 02:31
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Lobok posted:Peter is book smart but he doesn't always have those day-to-day common sense smarts. Arguably the greatest Spider-Man story of all time kicks off because he didn't see a problem with donating his radioactive mutated blood to Aunt May. Which story is this?
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Jun 13, 2023 02:48
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personally i trust the angry vampire freak with a god complex
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Jun 13, 2023 03:04
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I do love how casually they drop that Miguel is a “vampire” and nobody bats an eye or requires elaboration. Red eyes, hangs out in the dark, big fangs and almost bites Vulture, very nice moving on.
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Jun 13, 2023 03:15
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Vandar posted:Which story is this? Master Planner Saga, which includes If This Be My Destiny!, i.e. the one that features the famous scene of him lifting the immense machinery off of himself. He's trying to find and then get a special cure to Aunt May for a sickness he caused with a blood transfusion in an earlier storyline.
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Jun 13, 2023 03:42
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BrianWilly posted:On this note the only other critique I have is that unfortunately Peter B. came off pretty badly in this film. I don't care about literally every other of the million Spider-Mans being "portrayed wrong," what with them unthinkingly choosing to let Miles' dad die, but it's a very bad look for Peter B in particular. The only way you kind of accept it is if he thinks Miles' whole universe will...might?...get wiped if it doesn't happen, which kind of explains why they even made those stakes so large in the first place, even though -- again -- those stakes being so large do stretch sense and credulity a bit. *shrug* It's very blink and you'll miss it But in Miguel's flashback that shows his adopted universe getting wiped out, Peter B is with him so he at least has some motivation for going along with it
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Jun 13, 2023 05:01
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Across The Spider-Verse was loving great, I agree with the above posts that the 3rd one will allow for full judgement of Miguel O'Hara's rigid canon event dogma My raving about how wonderful it was has motivated a couple of friends to check out the first one and then see this so yay me. Macdeo Lurjtux posted:because, while that Miles wasn't supposed to be Spider-Man he is now which means he has to play by the rules everyone else does.
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Jun 13, 2023 06:37
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eke out posted:personally i trust the angry vampire freak with a god complex  I can only assume Spider-people choose their leader based on who is the tallest and saddest. TBH as a 2099 Comics Enjoyer, I hope he’s a little more chill in the sequel. Miguel is an absolute dumbass loser in the comic, let’s see that side of him.
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Jun 13, 2023 13:27
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Sanschel posted:I do love how casually they drop that Miguel is a “vampire” and nobody bats an eye or requires elaboration. Red eyes, hangs out in the dark, big fangs and almost bites Vulture, very nice moving on. There's a cat Spider-Man, so a vampire isn't really much of a stretch and definitely more benign
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Jun 13, 2023 13:42
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2099 is vampirish, yeah. His spider powers manifested as a more feral version, with talons and fangs and venom. So he did do the classic fangs-in-the-neck to enemies, but not to suck blood. It was a spider bite. The movie lengthened his cape so there's also that for making a stronger comparison.
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Jun 13, 2023 14:09
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Marvel just announced a ton of changes, some of them seem to confirm previous rumors about adding longer delays between movies and treating the TV show and movies as similar products that won't be released around the same time anymore. - Both Avengers movies delayed by a full year (to May 1st, 2026 and May 7, 2027). - Bucking the trend, Deadpool 3 has been moved up 6 months to May 3, 2024. - "Captain America: New World Order" has been renamed "Captain America: Brave New World" to disassociate itself with anti-Semitic and white supremacist conspiracy theories about "the New World Order" where Jews secretly control the world to harm white people. - Captain America: Brave New World has been delayed by 3 months to July 26th, 2024. -Thunderbolts and Blade have both been delayed 5 months because they opted to cancel scheduled production due to the Writer's Strike rather than continue production with no re-writes or hiring scabs. - Fantastic 4 has been delayed by 3 months. All of the TV shows have still had their release dates removed with no updates, except for Secret Wars, which starts on June 21st. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/disney-moves-avatar-star-wars-avengers-1235514145/
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Jun 13, 2023 16:47
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So the only thing we’re definitely getting this year TV wise is Secret Invasion then
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Jun 13, 2023 16:49
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FlamingLiberal posted:So the only thing we’re definitely getting this year TV wise is Secret Invasion then Loki season 2 was delayed from July, but is still expected to premiere in October. Echo will release on November 29th this year. Nothing else will be released this year. Every other show has had its original release date wiped, so not clear how long they will delayed.
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Jun 13, 2023 16:56
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Majors really hosed Disney up
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Jun 13, 2023 17:14
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Mr Hootington posted:Majors really hosed Disney up Oh, this is probably way more to do with the WGA and possible SAG-AFTRA strikes than Majors, sadly. With a dash of the recent underwhelming response to a number of the MCU projects.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:15
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Only one movie in like 360 days is quite the change of pace.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:46
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The worst news is that the universally loved, respected and admired franchise Avatar is also delayed. How will humanity survive the delay of the one thing keeping us together?
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Jun 13, 2023 17:48
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Joe Fisto posted:The worst news is that the universally loved, respected and admired franchise Avatar is also delayed. How will humanity survive the delay of the one thing keeping us together? Announcing a 2031 movie release date in 2023 is pretty wild. James Cameron is going to be 77 when it releases.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:07
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Announcing a 2031 movie release date in 2023 is pretty wild. God will keep him alive and well because of how important Avatar is.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:09
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He'll build twenty new cameras by then.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:13
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Joe Fisto posted:God will keep him alive and well because of how important Avatar is. I'm sure he will be fine. I just think it is wild that it was announced in 2010 and will be released 21 years later.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:13
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Gaz-L posted:Oh, this is probably way more to do with the WGA and possible SAG-AFTRA strikes than Majors, sadly. With a dash of the recent underwhelming response to a number of the MCU projects. I'm sure Loki 2 is a bit of both. Majors will be a big part of that and the writers are striking so they can do rewrites to cut him out if they get rid of him.
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Jun 13, 2023 18:44
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