- Frosted Flake
- Sep 13, 2011
-
Semper Shitpost Ubique
|
FAIR posted:
The Times did find someone credentialed to legitimize running cover for Nazis:
Ihor Kozlovskyi, a Ukrainian historian and religious scholar, said that the symbols had meanings that were unique to Ukraine and should be interpreted by how Ukrainians viewed them, not by how they had been used elsewhere.
“The symbol can live in any community or any history independently of how it is used in other parts of Earth.”
Kozlovsky: I show that this war is new. On the one hand, this is a real armed war. There are ordinary moments, as during any military operations, during which a person, in one way or another, becomes a victim or a hostage. But there are other dimensions. For me, this is also an existential war, a value war. And I emphasize that now, on the one hand, there is a struggle between Ukraine’s orientations for the values of the future — freedom, dignity, human life, and on the other hand — the pseudo-values of the past, which are the core of the revanchist Russian world. This clash has not only our regional character, but even a planetary one. Our partners in the west feel that, otherwise they would not have joined this process. But it must be constantly emphasized so that the view of war is not only horizontal, not only flat but also vertical, in-depth.
— How not to tire the foreign audience with our war? There are many conflicts and problems in the world, and one way or another Ukraine disappears from the columns of the world media. How not to legalize our war in the world context, and keep it in the informational focus?
Kozlovsky: I agree, our task is not only to talk about emotions. They are important, of course, but it is necessary to appeal to people through people, through journalists to convey to the general public an understanding of, first of all, the very phenomenon of Ukraine, a modern, historical phenomenon. Second, it is important to demonstrate that this war goes beyond a conventional armed conflict. People really have a lot of information – somewhere in Africa, in Asia, there are long-term conflicts, and the same in Afghanistan. But they have a regional character.
The war going on here is a war for the future of humanity. We need to be aware of how to convey the message that there is a common responsibility. This is a question for everyone and the answer should lie with all of humanity. If we do not stop Russia in Ukraine now, the entire world civilization is at risk. Because it was in Ukraine that Russia violated the international order established after the Second World War. At first, the world reacted with some disbelief that this was an alleged hack of this very international security system, but now it should be clear to everyone. This should become an area of responsibility for everyone, not only for the governments of different countries, but for the people of the world.
— In your interviews, you said that you did not feel completely free after captivity. How has this sense of self changed since a full-scale invasion?
Kozlovsky: The personal experience of captivity helps one to look at the concept of freedom in a different way – not the abstract concept of freedom that we get used to and live an ordinary life. When there is an experience of unfreedom, internally you can be more or less free, but you are limited in terms of information, limited in movements, in general, in everyday small matters. And when you finally become free, set free, this feeling is extremely valuable. That's when you begin to fully understand the value of freedom. Freedom with a human dimension, not just being free. I talk about this all the time – any biological being, any animal, longs for freedom if it is in captivity. But here there is an additional point, which is connected with a factor that has a human dimension. Freedom has a human dimension. It allows you to feel even more acutely even now, during a full-scale war. We recently talked with Stas about what will happen if they go in [to Kyiv – Craft] and we face the threat of capture again. We know what captivity is like there, and it is already on the verge of life and death. You will do everything possible to avoid being captured. Freedom remains the crucial core of your existence during wartime.
Kozlovsky: Before us is pathology on a catastrophic scale. It does not have a human dimension. There is no humanity and there is hatred for everything related to Ukraine, personally for Stas and for me. The situation itself will require you to take some actions aimed at not getting captured or destroying yourself.
Kozlovsky: From the point of view of the Christian religion (killing yourself is immoral), yes. As a religious scholar, I can say that there is no such emphasis in other religious systems. This is a situation in which a person finds oneself and faces global questions of life and death. This should be approached more irrationally. Because these sufferings will be experienced not only by you, but also by your family and friends, and will require you to take such a step.
Kozlovsky: All people are traumatized and this trauma can remain meaningless if a person does not mature and grow. My emphasis in the trauma itself is that I look at the trauma as a certain experience, and when I am aware of this trauma, I can talk it out, as Stas talks it out and writes it out, then the meaning appears. Not in the suffering itself, but in how we continue to live with this suffering. Indeed, many people disappeared from history, lost their lives. We talk about those who have gone through this suffering. How do we teach people this kind of inner self-therapy? Therefore, meaning is therapy. When you can understand this experience, talk about it, write it down, and convey it in an interview, in communication – this is what makes sense. It is connected with the fact that here we use trauma, suffering, with a certain goal – to remind about humanity, values, principles, about the need to resist evil. It really helps, not even you because it is projected through you. When you're talking to people who haven't had that experience and you have to actualize that experience in their minds so that they can grow without necessarily going through suffering. Our suffering is like a certain tool for conveying meaning.
– Didn't you feel a certain abandonment? Despite the publicity about the situation with the prisoners in Donetsk, in general, there was no fair reaction at that time in Kyiv and in the rest of Ukraine. It was still within a certain interested audience. The same situation with "Palych," who was able to cross the border with Ukraine. Did you feel your own identification with Cassandra from the inability to convey the meaning of your experience?
Kozlovsky: It is impossible to convey your experience to all of Ukraine, just as it is impossible to drink the entire ocean. There is a Sufi saying that not everyone who ran after a gazelle caught it, but everyone who caught a gazelle ran. It means that you have to keep doing.
A lot of people don't want to hear it, even now. Especially where people live such an ordinary life and again for them it is like TV. People would not like to grow up because when a person grows up, it is a certain cross of responsibility. People would like to remain in their vision of the world, to have their own picture of the world, in which everything is clear: people from Donetsk are people from Donetsk, but we are the rest. It is extremely difficult to convey this, but that does not mean that it should not be done. These efforts are aimed at society as a whole growing up. It is this active part, the critical mass of society, that our future depends on. Society in a broad sense, not only in Ukraine, but in many countries, is inert, indifferent, and very often infantile. Because people live by needs, high values do not really concern them. But the active part of civil society, which takes responsibility, must know, be aware, have information, develop, grow up, and thus pull the community as a whole. This is exactly the task. We're all different, and it's great that we're different. Not everyone should be the same, and we fight for that — for the diversity of different opinions and different positions. But the main thing is to learn to think, develop, communicate, and hear. Not only to listen, not just to speak, but also to hear another person. For me, the Ukrainian "chuty" [to hear] is about a total feeling. Not like in Russian "slushat'" [to listen] and slyshat'" [to hear] where there is practically no difference. Listening and hearing means that you are deeply there, you can be open to new meanings and challenges, and you can grow. And this is important work.
Kozlovsky: We look at the world from the point of view of our own internal position. When I got out of captivity, I actively got involved in the release of Stas – precisely because I know, I have experience. It’s just like him now, why he deals with war criminals – precisely because we know. And this gives additional strength. You talk about it on all platforms in Europe and America. You focus on a specific person. When you fight for a specific person, then there is hope to pull this person out. And yes, indeed, people have the right to live their everyday lives, that's normal. That’s how the defense mechanism works. We are fragile. There is a certain limit of perception. I support Stas regarding the Minsk group. When I was offered to join it, I refused. On the one hand, this is a waste of time; on the other hand, psychologically it was disgusting for me to be there, precisely because you cannot hear those voices from that side. It will simply be the return of your trauma.
Kozlovsky: I do not see myself as a political figure. I understand what it is, that there is politics, especially in our country. I have my space in which I live, I have a zone of responsibility that I must take into account in my life. Civil activist – yes. Politician? It is clear that we are all politicians in some way, but when we talk about politics in a traditional way, we represent this echelon of power. There were such proposals, but I am not interested in them.
— What do you think is happening in Donetsk now in mental and psychological terms with the people who live there? How do you think they identify themselves?
Kozlovsky: We have certain information, each from our own bubble, from our own contacts. It can be different, especially when you lived there in the same bubble because you can't analyze the whole thing at such a great distance. But it is true that the population there is not a monolith. There was a loss of a large number of pro-Ukrainian elements during these eight years. Of course, there are very few people left who stand on pro-Ukrainian positions, but they do exist. I know them. There is already a large number of people oriented towards Russia because they are connected by certain ties. Their relatives have been in these armed formations since 14-15 years ago. Some have losses; their relatives died. Something is already connected with the events that are taking place in this area. There continues to be a large number of people who would like to return to 2013, an indifferent part of the population who will live under any government, so that they will not be touched, as long as there was a salary and pensions. There are a large number of such people. They existed and will exist in any region. This is not a feature of the Donetsk region or the Luhansk region; it is a general characteristic of people. They just want peace, so that nothing happens, so that they can continue to live peacefully, and under which government – it doesn't matter to them.
As for the younger generation, they really grew up in different conditions. Those who, in one way or another, still broke out or are breaking out, go to Ukraine or Russia and stay there. The region is no longer as young as it used to be; this young generation is being lost.
What happens to consciousness (because this is a problem of people's consciousness)? Consciousness is plastic and if we free these territories and some time passes, consciousness will gradually change under the influence of other information. Not everyone will change. We know what happened after the Soviet Union: people lived under the influence of Soviet information, and it is also specific because the world was closed. Many people have changed their point of view already during independent Ukraine, but many did not. They remained in the past. It is also an individual story of everyone. The problem is that they feel that everyone has abandoned them. They believe that Donetsk will disappear, that it will be destroyed and there is no future. The old people will simply live there somehow, and more or less the younger generation will leave those territories. These are phrases that I hear from people with whom I communicate in one way or another.
Kozlovsky: Cause-effect relationships are broken. Communicating with those who stand in such a position of not understanding what is happening, I conclude that they actually no longer remember what happened in the beginning. Their story begins at some point, for example, "The airport was bombed." And where is the beginning, where is the logic, who starts the war itself? This is indeed a problem.
— Is there a chance that this will change when the Ukrainian Donbas returns?
Kozlovsky: Russia sets a task, if they withdraw from these territories, they will simply destroy them. Like Mariupol.
Kozlovsky: It is necessary to liberate them quickly, although the situation there is slightly different, but there are also people who are engaged in collaboration, or are just as indifferent and are already adapting to the new situation. Everything repeats itself, and the people, of course, are the same. But there is a short period of time, so we must hurry, we must throw our forces into liberating the south of our country. This is a really important task.
— What are the relationships between philosophy, religion, literature, and journalism for you now? How much time do they take in life, how do they affect each other?
Kozlovsky: It is difficult for me to separate. I have been engaged in religious studies for 47 years. This is my life. I immerse myself in the experiences of various religious communities not only in Ukraine but in the world in general, understanding all the nuances. The deeper I go, the more I realize that there is an infinity before me. I live by it, I'm interested in it, it opens not only external horizons, but it raises something internal. Not only do I research, but I also teach, I try to teach based on my experience and understanding. Perhaps it will differ from the understanding of other researchers, perhaps it also applies to literature.
There is a certain imprint of your profession, fate, and life. Although Stanislav does try to move away from philosophy, his specialty will still influence his literature. Moreover, he was always such a meticulous student. What made him different from others – he always had his own opinion, it was honest, and it always distinguished him and caught the eye. I always like it when each student has their own point of view. Then you understand that in front of you is a thinking person. Such a person thinks differently. It may have annoyed some teachers, I know them [laughs - ed.] But it was this honesty that allowed him to move in this philosophical space, finding something of his own that differed from another point of view.
— Is the thirst for revenge a productive feeling? Does it help to survive, to win, how do you feel about it?
Kozlovsky: Revenge in the everyday sense is destructive. As soon as it is filled with meaning, it is no longer revenge, but justice. It is our task that this justice becomes one that will bring these people to punishment.
— Love in times of war. What does this mean for you personally and for humanity in general? Love in a broad sense is about philia, agape, and eros separately.
Kozlovsky: This cannot be a short answer. It is infinity, you know! You are right to say that in the ancient world, there were many such views of love that we use in the sense of love. Although there is a word for "kokhannia" in the Ukrainian language, and only "lubov" in Russian, we can love Lucy, ice cream and our cat, and this blurs the perception. In fact, these were different points of view in the ancient world: eros, and philia, and storge, and agape, and ludus, and mania. There are many of them, different manifestations, and each of them is painful.
There is also the use of one's Ego, and simply at the level of carnal love, or family, like storge. This is when you feel what family ties are like, they don't have to be erotically charged. Or a philia when there is friendly love. It is also important. Agape is another dimension, the bar that, I won't say goes beyond emotions, but it is volitional, voluntary love that is, love that is filled with your responsibility. You invest in this love so that it becomes an instrument for changing the whole world, both internally and externally.
I constantly remember this dialogue when Christ meets Peter after the Resurrection and asks him this question, because before that Peter betrayed Christ three times. Christ asks: "Peter, do you love me?" And he answers: "I love You, Lord!" He asks a second time: "Do you love me?" Peter answers again: "I love You, Lord!" And the third time yes, and he says: "You see everything, Lord!" Well, some strange dialogue. But if we read in the Greek version, we see this: "Peter, do you agapeo me?" And he answers: "Philio you, Lord!" Again Christ: "Do you agapeo?" That is, have you grown to the level of agape? He answers again. And the third time he asks: "Do you philio?" And he answers: "Well, you see everything, Lord!" He has not yet grown to agapeo. Then he will grow up, he will be crucified, like Christ, and he will say that he cannot be like Christ, he will be crucified differently than Christ. But this suggests that love must grow.
Love is a process, a work, not an emotion. They are there, they certainly are. But we live in such a world where our mood changes, situations change, and if we are not responsible, we can break the relationship. We can say that love has "passed". But she can't pass if it's real love! This requires effort, agape — volitional efforts.
Kozlovsky: It is unconditional. For me, in general, everything that is happening now is a manifestation of love, and I see it all the time. Starting with the fact that I saw these queues at the military commissariats, when people went to defend their country. I saw these volunteers who lost their health and money in order to support the displaced people and the front. This is love, unconditional love. That is, love is multidimensional, it manifests itself in the process because love is action, not words. And I saw these people in the first days, and I saw those people who could not leave – old women walking along the road and the front door opens, a person runs out and brings food to these old strangers. She carries food – this is love. Even to strangers. This is precisely the characteristic feature of this war, that it is really a people’s was, that we are an armed people in various forms of weapons, not only those who took up arms, but those who help. This is a different kind of love.
The guy who defended the Political symbols, the only one they could find, is some sort of theologian(???) who wrote that Ukraine is Love.
|
#
?
Jun 12, 2023 23:55
