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Synthbuttrange posted:The baffling thing is how Frostpunk has so many weird dumb mobile knockoffs. Play them for us. Captain's emergency missive: Do not subject the OP to mobile games, that is cruel and unusual punishment!
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Jun 10, 2023 12:37
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BassMug posted:So at what point does the game decide you went too far? Is it the capstone of the tree, or is it close to where we stopped? Lord Koth covered it a bit. The capstone is an obvious one. We'll no doubt go faith in another run to see how that capstone turns out. I'd guess it's got some relation to how many people die from laws.
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Jun 10, 2023 12:39
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The point where you "cross the line" is consciously vague. Honestly it supports the themes of the game if you can't tell whether any specific step on the path to authoritarianism is the one that's too far.
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Jun 10, 2023 13:08
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Tenebrais posted:The point where you "cross the line" is consciously vague. Honestly it supports the themes of the game if you can't tell whether any specific step on the path to authoritarianism is the one that's too far. I'm assuming that prisons are ok but forcing people to take oaths of loyalty and labeling people is enough to count.
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Jun 10, 2023 15:58
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I dunno, it seems as though signing the final Order law seems to be the "line" so to speak, because it all seems to snowball (pun?) from there. At that point, it loses all subtlety. I'm not saying it's awful, but despotism isn't an overnight thing. By the time the Leader signed the last law, it should've been more of a shrug than a power grab.
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Jun 11, 2023 01:32
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Koorisch posted:I'm assuming that prisons are ok but forcing people to take oaths of loyalty and labeling people is enough to count. Prisons are ok, people will actually ASK you to pass the prison law during the londoners arc. Realistically in the game the law itself is just in practicality a drunk tank, people get thrown in for a few days to cool their heels and clear their heads then go back out.
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Jun 11, 2023 04:46
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Can you implement prison and then shut it down the same way you can propaganda center?
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Jun 12, 2023 14:14
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AtomikKrab posted:Prisons are ok, people will actually ASK you to pass the prison law during the londoners arc. I think part of the problem is that the game is measured in days and not weeks, and the city is hundreds of people. The latter makes sense because it'd get a little awkward wrangling thousands in this sort of game and also, how did tens of thousands of people actually get up there, but the former is total nonsense. The escalation from "we need order to give purpose to our lives so we don't kill ourselves" to "I'm Mega Stalin now" is like a week lmao. Pretty impressive building all those mines that fast though What the hell guys.
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Jun 12, 2023 16:32
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I always assume time durations are somewhat abstract in a situation like that, else you’re looking at the concept that a few dozen randomly surviving people are scientists capable of iterating multiple generations of facility and equipment improvement in a matter of a handful of days in a facility rapidly thrown together in a convenient pit.
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Jun 12, 2023 17:44
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I believe not crossing the line is simply just not signing the Pledge of Loyalty, Forceful Persuasion & New Order (or their faith equivalent) laws. There's a "Golden Path" achievement that's much more restrictive and can have "random" events count against it.
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Jun 12, 2023 18:11
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Tortolia posted:I always assume time durations are somewhat abstract in a situation like that, else you’re looking at the concept that a few dozen randomly surviving people are scientists capable of iterating multiple generations of facility and equipment improvement in a matter of a handful of days in a facility rapidly thrown together in a convenient pit. I feel like the technology tree is not truly inventing anything new, but adapting existing designs and equipment to the absolutely terrible conditions and weather. Basically packing as much insulation in as possible. The city can't make true innovation like new steam cores and has to salvage. For things like the automaton redesigns I get the impression that the stock model is heavily gilded with all sorts of fancy extra bits because back before the cold came they were the absolute pride of the empire and made up extremely fashionable, the later designs are bare bones for functionality.
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Jun 12, 2023 19:09
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How do the Hothouses start growing edible food immediately?
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Jun 12, 2023 19:58
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Time appears to have broken along with the atmosphere, especially since the Industrial Hothouse indicates they've managed to grow full grown apple trees.
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Jun 12, 2023 20:47
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RBA Starblade posted:I think part of the problem is that the game is measured in days and not weeks… I imagine it’s even sillier in the cult route, where in less than a week you’re presumably The Son of Heaven, Who Speaks for God and rules by His Order etc.
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Jun 13, 2023 00:40
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You really just have to take the aesthetic and themes as they are - and they are of course very good. Because once you start mechanically breaking it down another point would be that realistically - assuming you couldn't get underground which would be even better - you'd want to be building interconnected groups of structures rather than every single one freestanding for any number of fairly obvious reasons. Maybe not literally everything contiguously connected due to potential fire risks, but certainly stuff along the lines of apartment/townhouse style housing structures with facilities such as the cookhouse integrated into it as well (or at the very least centralize them between several housing blocks with enclosed paths connecting to them all). Anything really to minimize going outside as much as possible, as well as maximize the effectiveness of heating. It's not even like this kind of "build two buildings next to each other and they interlink" is something that games can't and haven't done, Frostpunk simply chose to go more for the steampunk aesthetic - with it basically looking like Industrial Revolution era cities just with a chilly addition - instead.
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Jun 13, 2023 04:09
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Odd. I thought if you put buildings together they did interlink?
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Jun 13, 2023 04:26
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Only some sorts of the same type of building do the interlinked thing.
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Jun 13, 2023 05:29
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Lord Koth posted:You really just have to take the aesthetic and themes as they are - and they are of course very good. Oh, of course! The game is amazingly compelling, both in its story and how it chooses to tell it.
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Jun 13, 2023 06:25
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New London wasn't the only city out there trying to keep itself warm. At the same time that their expedition was getting underway, a team of scientists was dispatched to a top secret location. Their mission was on a smaller scale than that of the New Londoners, though it was no less important...  As the brightest minds of Oxford and Cambridge, we have been sent to save priceless seed and plant specimens from the eternal winter. Do we have what it takes to keep the Seedling Arks safe? We've been chosen to safeguard a priceless treasure - the seeds and seedlings of plants from all over the world. They've been deposited in Seedling Arks to stop them from freezing, but it falls to us to build a city to protect these precious buildings until the winter ends, however long that may be. The only way to do this is with automatons. We'll ensure the green earth is reborn - even if we aren't there to witness it. The Site 614 Seedling Ark Project, known informally as "Project Legacy," is tasked with ensuring the long-term survival of as many species of plant life as could be retrieved in time, from all corners of the British Empire. Automatons are to be built on site and programmed to keep the samples alive until the ice thaws, at which point they are to disperse them in order to ensure the continuation of life on Earth.    The Frozen Grove of Site 614 is quite distinct from the Crater of New London, both in terms of surroundings and preparedness. A long and narrow canyon with a lot of frozen trees at both ends, the Generator construction team has prepared the site with four immense Arks, a few roads, and a single operational automaton.  Here is a closer look at one of the Arks. They are, of course, unique to this scenario.  A mere forty-five engineers is the entirety of the human work force here. Their mission is the continued survival of their floral charges, not to be a long-term inhabited settlement.  The Book of Laws looks almost identical to that of New London, though since there are no children that branch is not available here. Adaptation only; we know our Purpose here. In case you've forgotten what any of them are, I've put a very brief write-up of all the laws we've unlocked so far back on page one. Let me know if you need more detail on anything. In order to ensure a quicker and less repetitive experience in the early game, I'm going to experiment with using Strawpoll here. Vote for your top three preferred Laws, and they will be instituted in the order of popularity each update. If you vote for one of the later options, make sure you also select the prerequisite choices. Hopefully this format works, but if anybody foresees any problems with this method, please let me know! What will our first three laws be, to ensure the survival of the Seedling Arks?
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Jun 13, 2023 08:00
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Soup Emergency Shift Fighting Arena In that order.
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Jun 13, 2023 09:10
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I voted in the poll like a responsible person.
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Jun 13, 2023 11:10
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On a related note. Why are the arks not built around the generator? They also don't have a lot of insulation. This scenario would be much better if there were researchable technologies that would let you insulate the arks over time.
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Jun 13, 2023 14:45
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Emergency Shift, Sustain Life and Cemetery like the practical gentlemen and gentlewomen we are. (voted in the poll)
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Jun 13, 2023 16:22
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rastilin posted:On a related note. Why are the arks not built around the generator? They also don't have a lot of insulation. This scenario would be much better if there were researchable technologies that would let you insulate the arks over time. Especially by putting such isolation as an option for the lower difficulty settings, and removing it only with the hardest. Emergency Shift, Sustain Life and Cemetery
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Jun 13, 2023 19:15
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Emergency Shift to start with, I reckon. Soup second. I think we want people to get going with work and food before anything else.
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Jun 13, 2023 21:14
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rastilin posted:On a related note. Why are the arks not built around the generator? They also don't have a lot of insulation. This scenario would be much better if there were researchable technologies that would let you insulate the arks over time. They presumably want the seeds a certain level of cold to preserve them, but not so cold that the building is destroyed? Emergency shifts, but only to pursue later extended working hours.
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Jun 13, 2023 23:17
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rastilin posted:Why are the arks not built around the generator?
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Jun 13, 2023 23:44
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Isn't there a real-life version of these Arks somewhere in one of the Lappland countries? I think I remember reading somewhere that they were going to hide seeds and suchlike in case there's a disaster of some unknown description. Mind, I think I also remember reading that they also store nuclear waste in a similar bunker, so maybe I'm mixing things.
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Jun 14, 2023 01:25
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painedforever posted:Isn't there a real-life version of these Arks somewhere in one of the Lappland countries? I think I remember reading somewhere that they were going to hide seeds and suchlike in case there's a disaster of some unknown description. There are a number of them, the most famous of which is on the island of Spitsbergen off the Norwegian coast. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_bank
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Jun 14, 2023 01:28
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Yeah, the seed vaults, they have regular troubles because as it happens the scale of the problem is huge and the problem itself alone is non trivial.
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Jun 14, 2023 01:30
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I voted for the fighting arena for sure, because what do plants love? Noise. What generates lots of noise? The peoples elbow being delivered in -50 temps. Build the fighting arenas in the arks for the good of our future!
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Jun 14, 2023 01:44
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It's kinda funny to imagine a gaggle of the best and brightest, so to speak, immediately starting up gladiatorial combat at the first opportunity that presents itself.
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Jun 14, 2023 01:47
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IthilionTheBrave posted:It's kinda funny to imagine a gaggle of the best and brightest, so to speak, immediately starting up gladiatorial combat at the first opportunity that presents itself. Look, they've been through some poo poo.
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Jun 14, 2023 01:56
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I'll be d---ed before I let some blue-eared Cambridge bottle-holder get ahead of me in the soup line. Up with your dukes, Prestwicke, and guard your whirlygigs! I may be seventy-three but you'll cop a mouse from these Oxford knuckles just the same.
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Jun 14, 2023 02:34
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Seedling Arks Project Report: Entry One To the esteemed Lord Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, whomever the holder of that seat may be when this missive is received: Please accept my utmost respect and gratitude for your continued support in ensuring the success of the Seedling Arks Project, and my sincerest apologies for not being able to deliver this report in person.  We've reached the Generator site and the seedlings are safely stored in the Seedling Arks. We were supposed to deploy automatons to make sure the city can run itself no matter the weather, but the transport carrying the Factory plans was lost in a blizzard. We need to build a Beacon and send a team to search for it. Nearly all of my team made it to Site 614 safely. Unfortunately, we were forced to abandon our vehicle due to adverse weather conditions, and will not be able to begin the process of automating this site until the factory plans are recovered. Until then, our efforts will be directed towards ensuring the survival of the team, and more importantly, our charges.  We must ensure the Seedlings Arks don't freeze. All the seedlings and many of the tropical seeds are very sensitive to the cold. If the temperature in any Seedling Ark falls below Chilly for too long, its precious contents will be irreversibly damaged. The builders who prepared the site did a good job ensuring the Arks can stand up to the cold. The first thing we did when we arrived was ensure they were all safely and comfortably deposited. Unfortunately, the same blizzard that lost us our Dreadnought forced the build team to withdraw early, and so nothing else besides the Generator and a single Automaton has been completed.  Fortunately, we were able to bring enough supplies with us to set up two gathering posts almost immediately when we arrived, followed swiftly by a third. The building materials that were left behind and scattered about by the storm are being sorted and organized as I write.  As our mission parameters have evolved, so too will we need to adapt for our conditions. A vote was taken to allow us to work emergency shifts, and a couple of workshops have been set up so we can begin adapting for a longer than expected stay here.  Tents are set up as temporary accomodations. The Cambridge and Oxford contingents have both loudly insisted that they not sleep next to the other faction, though they work side-by-side without complaint when it counts. In order to facilitate efficient processing of our building supplies, we are researching faster gathering techniques.  Sir, an automaton stopped working because it was unable to recharge itself from the Generator or a Steam Hub. It has to do that twice daily. In order to make it operational again you need to turn on the Generator. The Automaton had been assigned to gather coal in a remote corner of the site, but partway through the day it entered Emergency Standby Mode and refused to move. As none of the team has had any prior experience working directly with automata, we were unfamiliar with their considerable energy requirements; when the Generator was activated, the Automaton immediately left Emergency Standby Mode and went to refuel itself.  Later that night, it assisted in one of our more frivolous construction projects - the Oxford and Cambridge contingents both insisted that a fighting arena be built, to prove the superiority of their respective schools. Well, a healthy body and a healthy mind go hand in hand, I suppose.  A few white mounds stand out in the otherwise flat landscape. We left some supplies there on our way from Britain. A Beacon is researched and built, letting us locate some of the supplies we had to leave behind on our way here. A scout team is assembled and dispatched to that location. However, that is not the only thing that we were able to spot with the Beacon's instruments.  Captain, with the Beacon operational we can clearly see the storm approaching from the south. It's still some distance away, but we'd better keep an eye on it and make sure we set up the infrastructure needed to heat the Arks before it hits. We were able to confirm the existence of the predicted Great Storm. That marks our project deadline - if the city is fully automated and able to deal with the storm by the time it hits, we can rest assured the Arks will be able to survive anything.  Doctors Howard and Robinson inaugurate our fighting pit with a singlestick match. I am too prepared with overseeing the automaton's production of soup to make a note of who wins.  The sun rises on the fourth day of the Seedling Arks Project; day four out of nobody now knows how many. The scouts will retrieve our critical factory design soon. Until then, we must continue to prepare the site as best we can. We need to focus on our survival if we are to ensure the survival of our legacy. What will our next three laws be, to ensure the survival of the Seedling Arks?
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Jun 14, 2023 04:24
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Join me in voting for duelling laws. We need to work through this bad blood before it festers.
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Jun 14, 2023 04:54
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IthilionTheBrave posted:It's kinda funny to imagine a gaggle of the best and brightest, so to speak, immediately starting up gladiatorial combat at the first opportunity that presents itself. You've not worked with field biologists, have you.
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Jun 14, 2023 09:34
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The Lone Badger posted:Join me in voting for duelling laws. We need to work through this bad blood before it festers. Do not - i do not foresee us ever getting more people, so any death is literally irreplaceable.
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Jun 14, 2023 10:14
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Black Robe posted:You've not worked with field biologists, have you. I feel like a good chunk of the desk academics I know would jump at the chance to punch out someone in their department or the next one over, even!
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Jun 14, 2023 11:11
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BassMug posted:I feel like a good chunk of the desk academics I know would jump at the chance to punch out someone in their department or the next one over, even! I have just learned that's called Sarye's Law.
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Jun 14, 2023 12:41
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