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Eason the Fifth posted:I've occasionally seen Gender and Sexual Minority (GSM) advocated online in lieu of LGBTQIA+ as a broader umbrella term which covers the whole spectrum. Is there any negative connotation to it? Yes, people with extreme and sometimes illegal paraphilias attempting to shelter under the term.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:25
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Discendo Vox posted:None of the issues of the last feedback thread were addressed. The only difference since is you’re moderating even less and the forum is even more dominated by trolls and circular arguments. 
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Jun 14, 2023 15:30
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I can absolutely see why guys who were bullied and "queer" was thrown at them as a slur would reject it now. As a millennial, homosexuality was THE bullying vector of choice in my school. I was called gay more times than I can count by my bullies. It's not really triggering for me now specifically because I've never had issues with my sexuality, but it's not hard to see how it would be if you ever dealt with shame around it.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:42
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World Famous W posted:i don't know if it's still in schoolyard or whatnot since im pushing forty, but i remember in my childhood a "game" called 'smear the *****' (it very much a slur in this case) which was just an excuse to kick the poo poo out of anyone suspected. my brother grew up in that same environment so it probably has something to do with it for him I remember about 15 years ago or so it finally sunk in to me what "queer" was referring to. The version played where I grew up was like an informal version of rugby.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:43
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I’m 35 and queer and several of its derivatives were definitely used as an insult when I was a kid.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:44
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In my 30s and I don't really remember queer being thrown around by kids a lot (gay, f*g and f****t plenty), but I do remember it having vibes of it being something adult homophobes would use. Like "the queers are corrupting our youth" stuff.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:51
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shoeberto posted:I can absolutely see why guys who were bullied and "queer" was thrown at them as a slur would reject it now. As a millennial, homosexuality was THE bullying vector of choice in my school. I was called gay more times than I can count by my bullies. It's not really triggering for me now specifically because I've never had issues with my sexuality, but it's not hard to see how it would be if you ever dealt with shame around it. Late Gen-X here, and this was absolutely my experience as well. In school I got called queer and/or fag at least once virtually every single day from about sixth grade until graduating high school, as it was the main vector for abuse (other than physical, of which there was a non-trivial amount as well) of any and all weird kids who didn't fit expectations or made the evil rednecks I grew up with feel inadequate by doing well in class. I can't imagine how much worse it was for the actually gay kids, given I'm straight and it was a nightmare.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:51
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Netanyahu seems to have leaked that the U.S. and Iran have been having secret talks about a "mini" nuclear deal, prisoner swap, lifting sanctions, and unfreezing Iranian military/government assets.quote:Scoop: Bibi says U.S. and Iran held indirect talks on "mini agreement" The WSJ seems to be confirming, so the talks aren't really "quiet" anymore. https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1668950249149198336 This is less comprehensive than the original nuclear deal, but it seems to be a way to avoid triggering the law that they passed in 2018 that requires congress to approve any new nuclear deal by making it an unofficial "understanding." The new hardline Iranian President pulled out of nuclear negotiations immediately after he won and promised to never sign a new treaty with the U.S., so it isn't a 100% clear that they will accept this. Although, it isn't 100% binding and everyone is stressing it isn't a "deal" or "treaty" and is instead "an understanding," so perhaps they really are considering it. Iran has really wanted to get the billions in government and military money back and might be tempted to do it for a prisoner swap and a pinky promise to not enrich uranium to weapons-grade levels.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:53
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It's one of those where using the definite article makes it way more offensive. "John is queer" versus "John is a queer."
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Jun 14, 2023 15:55
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Fork of Unknown Origins posted:I’m 35 and queer and several of its derivatives were definitely used as an insult when I was a kid. I'm originally from the Boston area and queer was the preferred insult at several of the schools I attended, probably because it sounds very venomous when pronounced with maximum Boston. 'Gay' was also an insult but it had more of a flippant tone and was being used as an insult for everything back then, it was more of an indirect derision of the concept of gayness than a direct insult, which is the role queer filled. I can definitely see people not being excited to relive that era. EDIT: Maybe I'm showing my age here but (slur spoiled)fag had kind of died out by the time I was in school, at least in public forums. It was definitely uttered to me in closed environments but it wasn't shouted through the hallways at top volume. I'm an elder millennial. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 15:59
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Late Gen-X here, and this was absolutely my experience as well. In school I got called queer and/or fag at least once virtually every single day from about sixth grade until graduating high school, as it was the main vector for abuse (other than physical, of which there was a non-trivial amount as well) of any and all weird kids who didn't fit expectations or made the evil rednecks I grew up with feel inadequate by doing well in class. I can't imagine how much worse it was for the actually gay kids, given I'm straight and it was a nightmare. Late GenX here that grew up in inner city Detroit schools. We just "didn't have any gay people" in our schools because nobody was coming out in that environment because they would literally get beaten up by kids trying to prove how not gay they were in doing so. Queer wasn't a word used back then, but our parents and grandparents would use it when they would specifically otherwise or talk about how weird someone was. Often used when someone "acted gay" but might not have been, necessarily.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:00
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Thanks for all the explanations on what queer means. So in summary it seems like it's safe to safe it's an umbrella for all things LGBT, but individuals have their own preferences and notions on whether they like that word vs something else. For anecdote, I don't think I ever heard the word queer being thrown around as an insult when I was growing up (I'm in my 30s), only gay and the f-word. I can sympathize with people who don't like being called queer because it was used to bully them though. This is not comparable at all, but when I was younger I was called a nerd as an insult for many, many years. So even today, the word "nerd" for me is first and foremost an insult and it's just really loving weird for me to see people referring to themselves as nerds/nerdy or using it as a term of endearment. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The new hardline Iranian President pulled out of nuclear negotiations immediately after he won and promised to never sign a new treaty with the U.S., so it isn't a 100% clear that they will accept this. I thought it didn't matter what the so-called president wants, only what the supreme leader wants?
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Jun 14, 2023 16:01
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Skippy McPants posted:Yes, people with extreme and sometimes illegal paraphilias attempting to shelter under the term.  thanks for fielding this one
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Jun 14, 2023 16:04
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Late Gen-X here, and this was absolutely my experience as well. In school I got called queer and/or fag at least once virtually every single day from about sixth grade until graduating high school, as it was the main vector for abuse (other than physical, of which there was a non-trivial amount as well) of any and all weird kids who didn't fit expectations or made the evil rednecks I grew up with feel inadequate by doing well in class. I can't imagine how much worse it was for the actually gay kids, given I'm straight and it was a nightmare. Same here. Show any bit of weirdness or difference and they'll pounce on you. Nameless Pete posted:It's one of those where using the definite article makes it way more offensive. "John is queer" versus "John is a queer." I always use "queer" when talking about academics or policy. I never use it when referring to groups or individuals.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:06
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Boris Galerkin posted:I thought it didn't matter what the so-called president wants, only what the supreme leader wants? The Iranian President has some autonomy. They can just be completely overruled by the Supreme Leader. The previous President was negotiating the nuclear deal and was being allowed to engage. The new President pulled out as soon as he was elected, though. Allegedly, the Supreme Leader wants the money and sanctions lifted, but isn't crazy about a nuclear deal in general. He didn't mind letting them try to get a good deal, but isn't really passionate about it.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:11
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Darko posted:Late GenX here that grew up in inner city Detroit schools. We just "didn't have any gay people" in our schools because nobody was coming out in that environment because they would literally get beaten up by kids trying to prove how not gay they were in doing so. I was running through a mental checklist before I posted and confirmed that as best I can recall, there were no openly gay kids in my whole class, and I could only think of one total in my entire high school the four years I was there. He got away with it by being/playing the part of the flamboyant over-the-top-to-the-point-of-caricature gay guy who therefore was harmless and got laughs rather than beaten up, which now thinking about it makes me profoundly sad if that might not have been his personality but a shield he had to put up to survive. Guy could and did do a perfect vogue, though. volts5000 posted:Same here. Show any bit of weirdness or difference and they'll pounce on you. And nobody would ever help. Sure, if it was too blatant a teacher might intervene and they'd get detention or even suspended but like they loving cared; they got those all the time anyway, wasn't any kind of deterrent.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:14
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Boris Galerkin posted:I thought it didn't matter what the so-called president wants, only what the supreme leader wants? Iran's political structure is complicated. In the end yes the Supreme Leader can rule by fiat but in practice actually allows the elected leadership to run things most of the time. The elected leaders are all vetted prior to election so they aren't likely to stray too far off the script, and like in other authoritarian regimes the elections are meant to legitimize the state so allowing the elected leadership the actual ability to lead helps to reinforce that legitimacy.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:17
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Oddly enough, in my bumblefuck highschool in West Virginia in the early 00s, the two openly gay guys never had any problems. I mean people would throw around homophobic and occasionally racial slurs all the time, so it wasn’t exactly an inclusive environment, but everyone liked the two gay Michaels. They probably got some stuff yelled at them at some point but they had a large accepting friend group and I think the worst thing was people always trying to get them to date each other. I’m not sure that was the norm though, or if my school just had a good group of people.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:20
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Captain_Maclaine posted:And nobody would ever help. Sure, if it was too blatant a teacher might intervene and they'd get detention or even suspended but like they loving cared; they got those all the time anyway, wasn't any kind of deterrent. In my experience, the only thing that got them to stop was a roundhouse kick to the guy's kidneys followed by a complete withdrawal from social interaction forever stunting my already stunted social development.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:20
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Iranian President has some autonomy. They can just be completely overruled by the Supreme Leader. Considering how things went the last time they had a deal in place, I can't say I blame the Iranians for not really caring about a a deal.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:21
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Lincoln-Douglas debates actually famously ended with Douglas renouncing the idea of popular sovereignty, resigning from the Senate, and endorsing Lincoln. Do you... have a source on this? Because a cursory googling is making it look like this is all made up bullshit--he was still a senator when he died, ran against Lincoln in the presidential election (and won two states), and seems to have supported Popular Sovereignty up through his death. Unless  , I guess.EDIT: This already got pointed out, sorry.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:35
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I've seen on Tumblr that there was a push to stop using queer and saying it's a slur... which got a ton of pushback because said "dont use it" push was a terf-led thing
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Jun 14, 2023 16:47
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:I've seen on Tumblr that there was a push to stop using queer and saying it's a slur... which got a ton of pushback because said "dont use it" push was a terf-led thing Debates around nomenclature are always contentious, especially for self-descriptors within minority groups, and especially when talking about reclaimed words. It's basically a guarantee that bad-faith actors will be in the mix, pushing on one and sometimes both sides of the issue.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:01
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Seems like based on the cumulative anecdotes here that using “queer” as an insult was probably pretty regional, and it makes sense that people who were exposed to it that way would feel more negatively about it. But ugh - the acronym fuckin’ sucks, guys. “Queer” seems like a good alternative to me but I’ve only ever been attracted to a handful of guys (some of whom actually turned out to be women  ) and am married to a woman so it’s not really my call.(I remember that my university’s campus support group in 2002-2005 used “GLBT.” I didn’t hear the now-standard acronym until later. Anybody else remember ever seeing the letters in that order?) DeadlyMuffin posted:In my experience, the people I have met who have trouble with/still see queer as a slur are older, 60+ now. I don't think they have a big presence online compared to younger generations. I suspect that's why you see growing acceptance of reclaiming the slur. Eason the Fifth posted:I've occasionally seen Gender and Sexual Minority (GSM) advocated online in lieu of LGBTQIA+ as a broader umbrella term which covers the whole spectrum. Is there any negative connotation to it? volts5000 posted:I always use "queer" when talking about academics or policy. I never use it when referring to groups or individuals.
Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 17:08
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Mellow Seas posted:
Everyone loves a good guacamole, lettuce, bacon, and tomato sandwich.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:32
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Of note, the new hotness for the past couple of years from bigots has been to refer queer folks as "alphabet people". Also it's probably not new. Really drives home how mad they are about diversity.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:36
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Nameless Pete posted:It's one of those where using the definite article makes it way more offensive. "John is queer" versus "John is a queer." Kind of like the difference between "people of color" and "colored people".
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Jun 14, 2023 17:37
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Yeah GLBT used to be more common which is how you get stuff like: quote:Since 1985, the GLBT Historical Society has been committed to preserving and sharing LGBTQ history.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:39
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https://twitter.com/thewarzonewire/status/1668690374020448257 The F-35 continues to be a giant embarassing farce/grift. As it says, these planes are going into storage until the Technology Refresh 3 upgrades are ironed out. quote:Next month, the Pentagon plans to stop accepting some newly built F-35s as they come off the production line at Lockheed Martin’s Fort Worth facility in Texas, in a development first reported by Breaking Defense. The reason given is the immaturity of the TR-3 hardware. Instead of being delivered to their units, “dozens” of the jets will be stored, temporarily, at Fort Worth. It could take until spring 2024 before issues with TR-3 are ironed out and the jets can finally be handed over. Related to this, the F-35's engine has been under-specced since the beginning. The main issue there is the need for a lot of bleed air to cool avionics, but this extra demand causes the engine to run too hot. That induces premature wear and reliability problems - which is a big deal when you only have one engine. The TR-3 upgrades will exacerbate this problem. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/f-35-engine-running-too-hot-due-to-under-speccing-upgrade-now-vital
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Jun 14, 2023 17:41
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volts5000 posted:In my experience, the only thing that got them to stop was a roundhouse kick to the guy's kidneys followed by a complete withdrawal from social interaction forever stunting my already stunted social development. In mine, fighting back bought you a little breathing space, then you got hauled in for fighting and sanctimoniously lectured about "how it takes two to tango" and other such boomer bullshit.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:41
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Captain_Maclaine posted:In mine, fighting back bought you a little breathing space, then you got hauled in for fighting and sanctimoniously lectured about "how it takes two to tango" and other such boomer bullshit. Gods, yeah, I hated that poo poo. Back when I was in high school, the official policy straight up said that if you defended yourself from someone attacking you, then you were just as much on the hook as the attacker would be.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:58
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Captain_Maclaine posted:In mine, fighting back bought you a little breathing space, then you got hauled in for fighting and sanctimoniously lectured about "how it takes two to tango" and other such boomer bullshit. My middle school was loving absurd. I would get beaten up and then get hauled in for 'violently assaulting another student unprovoked' while they got off scot-free, even in the instances where I was obviously injured and the other studing was unharmed.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:04
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The way kids are allowed to abuse each other in US schools baffles me. Take the "classic" stuffing someone in a locker. If that happened with adults, that would be assault. But because its kids, its often treated as a joke.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:17
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the_steve posted:Gods, yeah, I hated that poo poo.  Seemed to be a boomer thing that victims were expected to accept their part and take the abuse, not fight back and disturb the natural order of things.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:28
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https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1669003628848336899 Next weeks polls: Americans Say Economy "Worse Than Weimar Germany", Rate Own Situation as "Insanely Excellent"
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Jun 14, 2023 19:32
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the_steve posted:Gods, yeah, I hated that poo poo. We had one guy get suspended from school for a week because he got mugged.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:33
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Ither posted:The way kids are allowed to abuse each other in US schools baffles me. Kids don’t produce money for capitalism (they will later but lol at later in a capitalistic mindview)
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Jun 14, 2023 19:35
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/1669003628848336899 Ither posted:The way kids are allowed to abuse each other in US schools baffles me.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:36
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Captain_Maclaine posted:
It's more a cycle-of-abuse thing from boomers having been raised with severe corporal punishment at home, imo. Every subsequent generation tends to do better than the ones before it bc mores change & what was cool to do to your kids 60, 50, 40 and even 30 years ago is not only not cool anymore but could probably get you arrested today.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:41
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Mellow Seas posted:Sometimes I think that in the current media environment people are literally incapable of absorbing and processing good news. It's a Pavlovian response. The past twenty years have taught us all to cushion ourselves with cynicism in anticipation of an impending sucker punch.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:43
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