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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

Thankee kindly.
The handwritten letter sounds cute.

e: oh snipe uhhh here's content

AITA for telling a vegan that cheese and mayo contain animal products

quote:

This is a weird one. At least I think so. I was spending a few days on a trip in a cabin with a couple of friends. One of them I am acquainted with but don't know too well. I just know that he doesn't eat meat and he claims to be vegan. I don't care if he is vegan, people can eat how they want. I think his "veganism" comes from him never trying foods. He eats nothing but junk food and doesn't like meat or eggs or drinking milk because it is from an animal and the texture is gross to him. Again, not my problem, his life.





He eats doritos and chips constantly. Lots of ramen noodles and mac n cheese. I don't think I've seen him eat a vegetable. I've never really seen his eating habits before this trip. First night we were deciding what to eat. A friend suggested pizza and he agreed. I said(keeping him in mind) I said we should make sure they have options with vegan cheese and meatless sauce. He was like "what? cheese is okay to eat. It's not meat." I told him cheese is made from milk and he looked sick. He went on his phone and searched it up and was very upset. I thought this was common knowledge. He said that he loves pizza and pretty much lives off pizza. And that he eats tons of mac n cheese. I guess we were just assuming he had the vegan thing handled and ate vegan mac or that cheap Krafts "cheese" is not even real cheese so it didn't matter.





The next day we were ordering food. We were telling our order to one person and they'd go out and pick it up. He was asking for a sandwich with just vegan cheese, onions, and mayo and a side of fries. I said to make sure that they have vegan mayo there(big mistake) He was upset and asked why can't he eat mayo. I said mayo is made with eggs and he got really pissed at me and said I am ruining all the good food for him. At this point I just stopped keeping him in mind. He made some other questionable orders of things with animal product and I just didn't bring it up. He says I ruined food for him because he puts cheese and mayo on most things he eats. He called me an rear end in a top hat.





I don't care what the guy eats. I don't care if he claims to be vegan and eats steak every day. I was just keeping him in mind. My mother is vegetarian so I am used to checking if things have animal product in them.

Paragraph spacing OP's

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Involuntary Sparkle
Aug 12, 2004

Chemo-kitties can have “accidents” too!

Clocks posted:

I guess OP can be given some slack coming off a terrifying medical emergency but

literal "she was angry and emotional and I was calm and collected" lol. It just seems like a bit of an escalation to go "ACTUALLY I don't owe you anything" when you have a perfectly reasonable explanation you could have started with instead. :confused:

Agreed with ESH assuming Kim was legitimately being pushy, because OP doesn't sound like she handled it too well either.

The repeated "snapped" and "calmly" makes me think the situation happened very differently. Yes, I am speculating. But "calmly" is a word we know usually means something else.

Nurglings
May 6, 2016

Clocks posted:

It just seems like a bit of an escalation to go "ACTUALLY I don't owe you anything" when you have a perfectly reasonable explanation you could have started with instead. :confused:

a problem endemic to the redditeur, many such cases!

Follow up comments in the thread from OP continue to make themselves look worse, to the point where the "we're not friends" comes off as being intentionally cruel

Bright Bart
Apr 27, 2020

False. There is only one electron and it has never stopped

Aside from anything else the OP sucks because she couldn't think of a synonym or equivalent phrase to 'snap' and its derivatives.

Also this an interesting use of "exciteable". When I read it I figured it meant being sensitive and the OP was making fun of FSIL. But what it really meant, if this encounter is any guide, is being histrionic and intolerant of dissapoinment. I mean, that useage does pop up. But it's usually a euphemism for bad behaviour on the part of the story writer or spoken by family to excuse a relative being terrible.

Bright Bart fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Jun 16, 2023

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I had a vegan friend in the early 2000's before things were really being labeled as vegan or not. He was a little bit of a preachy vegan but not too bad. The thing is, he was purposefully ignorant of so many foods so that it wouldn't count as cheating. Any time one of us would educate him on a thing he was eating not being vegan he'd get all sulky and would claim we were doing it just to stick it to him. Eventually he asked us to just never inform him of the vegan status of food, let him find our himself and police himself. Fair enough, but man just declare yourself a vegetarian if you want to keep a million non-vegan cheat foods. Or just don't declare yourself anything, just eat what you want. if that means almost no animal products, great. But this was the early 2000's when veganism and its converts were at their most preachy. He was so attached to the idea of being a superior evolved vegan that "didn't murder for flavour" but he wanted to keep eating animal products in blissful ignorance.

Bored
Jul 26, 2007

Dude, ix-nay on the oice-vay.

tinytort posted:

Holy poo poo. I mean, a promise is a promise and you don't get to control the way a gift is used, but also that's absolutely wild. That's not "we can knock this out in one session", that's multiple sessions, over the course of months, and waiting for it to heal each time before continuing. And those are going to be multi-hour sessions, too.

Best case, that money is for staying local while the tattoo is done, and it's some simple line linework that won't be too regrettable or hard to cover up later. Worst case, uh, it's probably cover for drugs.

Yeah, that's "total cost for design + linework + colour + shading, over multiple sessions". You're not getting something that big inked and coloured in one sitting, it's too much for the body to handle.

And yet, trucking companies, limo services, and movie theatres rarely have difficulty finding a bank willing to do business with them. Or if they do, it's unusual enough to be worthy of comment.

It's almost as if money laundering, fraud, and organized crime have nothing to do with why sex workers get refused service from the banks.

Ooh, a rare ESH! The OP is an rear end in a top hat for trying to interfere with the coworker's time management system, but the coworker is an rear end in a top hat for using something that obnoxious (a full-volume alarm, 15-20 times a day?!) in a setting where it's going to be heard by everyone, including anyone on the phone.

Of course, the compromise is "use headphones or turn the volume down, or at least change the ringtone to something less jarring", and the coworker's obviously not willing to compromise, which makes them slightly more of an rear end in a top hat.


HR bought me a watch with multiple vibrating alarms. It was one I was considering buying for myself, so was cheap and the timer function was a bitch to use on the fly, but there are options for when you don’t want to disturb others. (We weren’t permitted to use cell phones at our desks and I tuned out any of the visual alarms because I was busy on the phone doing research in multiple windows).

Unless she’s also working on her phone, using the vibrate function should work. I have a huge aversion to bothering other people though. Taking public transport in Austin has taught me I am in a minority.

Malachite_Dragon
Mar 31, 2010

Weaving Merry Christmas magic

i am a moron posted:

there is nothing wrong with kid free parties. In fact they rule. But if you’re gonna schedule that poo poo for a Saturday afternoon I’d have the same reaction. I also better not see your loving kid there if I had to get a sitter call the grandparents

On the other hand if the party is taking place at *their home*, where the kid lives, you can loving deal with it. Expecting them to punt the kid out into the street for a few hours for you is just not on the table.

SulfurMonoxideCute
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

I think Child Frees and Nice Guys would get along really well.

Pirate Radar
Apr 18, 2008

You're not my Ruthie!
You're not my Debbie!
You're not my Sherry!

Bright Bart posted:

a euthamism

Which as we all know means that instead of addressing a bad situation directly you skirt around it by killing someone

Pomme de Terror
Sep 30, 2021

Well, one of us must have killed him!
More pool posting? More pool posting!

AITA for causing family drama over a swimming pool?

quote:

So I know from experience that Reddit isn't the most understanding towards parents of young kids but I really just want a third party opinion because this situation is driving me crazy and my family are saying I need to get over it

I (F30's) live with my partner and our two kids, ages 7 and 3.

My older sister "Ava" (also F30's) and her husband recently purchased a house in the local area. It's a super nice place with a big yard and as you can probably guess from the title, a swimming pool.

Ava recently hosted a barbecue at her place. It wasn't a huge event, she invited me, our parents and our other siblings.

She mentioned letting the kids play in the pool so I only assumed my kids would get to be included

We are potty training although my youngest is still in diapers at the moment.

At the barbecue, I was getting my youngest ready for the pool by changing him into a swim diaper. Ava pulled me aside and told me she doesn't think it's "hygienic" for my youngest to play in the pool, since swim diapers don't hold pee and she asked that he doesn't swim in the pool with the other kids playing in it

I didn't think this was fair and told Ava that lots of people, adults and kids, pee in the pool and it would be no different at a public pool so what's the problem?

She was being really condescending and wouldn't listen to me at all and said that he can play in the pool when he's "toilet trained", and said it's not fair on the other kids.

At this point my son was crying because he wanted to swim in the pool and I told Ava she was being cold but it's her house and her pool so do what you want. Ava accused me of trying to guilt trip her and told me to just drop it.

I was getting upset myself at this point and i told our parents and other siblings about what Ava did. They told me it's not a big deal and that it's not worth arguing with her over and try not to let it bother me. I wasn't happy with this because this essentially means they're siding with her and downplaying how she treated me and my son.

I left the barbecue early with my family because we didn't feel welcome after that.

The next day Ava messaged me a whole paragraphs and said that she's "sorry" that I'm upset and that she wasn't trying to exclude my son for the sake of it. It was a super non-apology and I told her I don't want to hear it and that she's damaged her relationship with her nephew and shes not the one who had to deal with him being upset.

Ava snapped at me out of nowhere and said I'm being dramatic. I told her to grow up and said that I have a very valid reason to be mad, and she needs to stop acting like a teenager.

Ava showed these messages to everyone and everythings just a bit up in the air. I feel like I'm right here but the rest of my family doesn't seem to agree.

spite house
Apr 28, 2009

Cowslips Warren posted:


AITA for hosting a pool party for friends and saying no kids allowed?

For gently caress's sake just have everyone kick down a few bucks and hire a couple of sitters to wrangle the kids during the party, this is not hard.

hawowanlawow
Jul 27, 2009

Pomme de Terror posted:

More pool posting? More pool posting!

AITA for causing family drama over a swimming pool?

I'm thinking the messages that were shared do not make op look good

snergle
Aug 3, 2013

A kind little mouse!

Pomme de Terror posted:

More pool posting? More pool posting!

AITA for causing family drama over a swimming pool?

yta because your 3 yr old isnt potty trained wtf are you doing

my mom potty trained all of us before 3 and theres 7 of us

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

snergle posted:

yta because your 3 yr old isnt potty trained wtf are you doing

my mom potty trained all of us before 3 and theres 7 of us

The age a child is ready for potty training is dependent on the individual child, and while three is towards the older end without some other issues going on, it's not unusual.

Corzaa
Aug 1, 2006


snergle posted:

yta because your 3 yr old isnt potty trained wtf are you doing

my mom potty trained all of us before 3 and theres 7 of us

Neurodivergence possibly?

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

"I think if there’s one thing we can all agree on it’s that Penn State and Michigan both suck and are garbage and it’s hilarious Michigan fans are freaking out thinking this is their natty window when they can’t even beat a B12 team in the playoffs lmao"

Malachite_Dragon posted:

On the other hand if the party is taking place at *their home*, where the kid lives, you can loving deal with it. Expecting them to punt the kid out into the street for a few hours for you is just not on the table.

I have never, ever been to a party that was explicitly no children and the hosts had their own present. Like I said I just wouldn’t even go probably cause the 30 people they invited aren’t wrong.

trickybiscuits
Jan 13, 2008

yospos

therobit posted:

Do you not have any crappy local second run theaters where you live?

Twentyish years ago I worked at a crappy local second run theater. It is extremely believable that someone was laundering money through it. I have no idea how it made enough money to stay open. I got to eat a lot of very salty popcorn for free though so who cares.

Invisible Clergy posted:

AITA For telling my fiancé his parents are not welcome at our house?

quote:

I feel like I’m living in an episode of “Everybody Loves Raymond”.

quote:

My fiancé is very loving but this is his only flaw.
A friend of mine once told me about an archeologist who would measure nuclear family groups at archeological digs of mesolithic campsites by counting the cooking fires, since women with children very rarely share cooking fires.

Anyway, things are not going to get better. Run like the loving wind and never look back.

hallo spacedog
Apr 3, 2007

this chaos is killing me
💫🐕🔪😱😱

snergle posted:

yta because your 3 yr old isnt potty trained wtf are you doing

my mom potty trained all of us before 3 and theres 7 of us

Congrats to your mom but not all kids are the same

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

snergle posted:

yta because your 3 yr old isnt potty trained wtf are you doing

my mom potty trained all of us before 3 and theres 7 of us

Good for you snergle, you used the big kid potty!

Between 40 and 60 percent of children in the US are completely potty trained by 3, meaning roughly half aren’t.

AngryRobotsInc
Aug 2, 2011

Corzaa posted:

Neurodivergence possibly?

Also a distinct possibility. My son was not fully trained until he was almost 10 years old, due to a combo of severe developmental disabilities, autism, and medical trauma relating to the whole process. Even then, he had a regression in his overnight ability to stay dry a few years later. And that's with actively working on it from the time he was about two and a half.

MagusofStars
Mar 31, 2012



Pomme de Terror posted:

More pool posting? More pool posting!

AITA for causing family drama over a swimming pool?
I chuckled at the comments, because half of the comment threads are some variant of this:

Redditor 1: YTA, gross, nobody should pee in the pool, wtf
Redditor 2: Buddy, I have bad news for you about pools, most kids and even many adults are constantly pissin' freely!
Redditor 1: After reading this post and thread, I am never going into a body of water again in my life.

snergle
Aug 3, 2013

A kind little mouse!
maybe im the rear end in a top hat but unless the kid has developmental problems im sticking by it.

im probably also biased because one especially hot summer the apt complex swimming pool got drained from june to august because this 5 yr old kid who wasnt potty trained kept making GBS threads the pool.

AreWeDrunkYet
Jul 8, 2006

Baronjutter posted:

I had a vegan friend in the early 2000's before things were really being labeled as vegan or not. He was a little bit of a preachy vegan but not too bad. The thing is, he was purposefully ignorant of so many foods so that it wouldn't count as cheating. Any time one of us would educate him on a thing he was eating not being vegan he'd get all sulky and would claim we were doing it just to stick it to him. Eventually he asked us to just never inform him of the vegan status of food, let him find our himself and police himself. Fair enough, but man just declare yourself a vegetarian if you want to keep a million non-vegan cheat foods. Or just don't declare yourself anything, just eat what you want. if that means almost no animal products, great. But this was the early 2000's when veganism and its converts were at their most preachy. He was so attached to the idea of being a superior evolved vegan that "didn't murder for flavour" but he wanted to keep eating animal products in blissful ignorance.

It's also totally ok to be mostly vegan or mostly vegetarian, unless it's a religious requirement or hard ethical line. If your goals are better health, less environmental damage, or reducing animal deaths, cutting out 80% or even 50% of meat or animal products out of your diet is still going to be an improvement and lets you have a nice night out without stressing out about every ingredient. Like you said you don't get to label yourself anything that way, but who cares?

AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jun 15, 2023

Remulak
Jun 8, 2001
I can't count to four.
Yams Fan
Aha, I had one kid that resisted potty training, and when we got a definable goal and reason it was complete literally the next day. In retrospect there was six months where ‘sorry no swimming you’re not potty trained’ would have been a godsend.

Cowslips Warren
Oct 29, 2005

What use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?

Grimey Drawer
I mean any time you are in a pool, it's got pee in it.


AITA For "Stealing" a Baby Name From My Step Mother and Father

quote:

My mother was a very artistic person. She dedicated her life to her art, she was a painter and rather eccentric. She had the idea of having 4 children, and naming us in order to spell out “L-O-V-E” with our first initials. She passed unexpectedly last year, leaving me, and my two siblings. She never got to complete the word “love”.

When I was younger I asked her “What happens if you get too old and can’t have a baby anymore?” or something along those lines, and she told me that one of us could have a baby and finish it for her. She said it “wouldn't be the same, but the tribute would make me happy.”

My parents had marital problems up till her death because of my fathers infidelity and I think she put off having the 4th child for quite some time because of it - however she always said baby Elise or Emilio would be completing our family soon.

I was around 6-7 months pregnant when my father and his wife (and former mistress) announced their pregnancy. She chimed in saying she would finally bring little Emilio into our family. My sister and I were horrified, and spoke to my dad privately that, while mom did want someone to continue on the acronym idea, we found it disrespectful to do it with the woman he was cheating on her with.

I then told him about how she said she wanted one of us to carry on the name when I was a child. He shut me down saying that she “probably expected her and I to still be together” and that “It’ll be better with all of you guys in the same generation of the family.” - and left it at that. My brother agreed.

Two weeks before I gave birth, they found out they were not having a boy as they hoped, but a girl. I realized I could take the name Elise before they would have a chance to name their baby my mothers chosen name. They could name her “Emily” or something else, but it wouldn’t be the name my mother chose and that's what mattered to me. So I did.

My father, and especially my step mother are furious at me for “ruining” my mothers lasting wishes and tarnishing her idea. While my sister agrees with me, she won't say it to my dad since the birth. My aunt and other family on my dads side called me names from “petty” and “troublemaking” to just outright a bitch. I did not expect so much backlash and it's really stressing me out with just giving birth - and they’re taunting me by posting pictures of their ultrasounds with captions like “The E baby is coming 2024” and “Three's a crowd but Four is Love”

It’s driving me crazy and it feels like this rift in the family is all for nothing since they’re going to claim their baby is the “real e baby” anyways.

I forgot to add this in, but My step mom actually approached me and asked me for permission, and politely asked me to change my mind on the baby name once she caught wind that I was already planning on naming the baby Elise. This is part of why I think I can be TA. I never actually officially announced the name first, I felt like it would be more special naming the baby when they arrive, not before.

MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010

by sebmojo

MagusofStars posted:

I chuckled at the comments, because half of the comment threads are some variant of this:

Redditor 1: YTA, gross, nobody should pee in the pool, wtf
Redditor 2: Buddy, I have bad news for you about pools, most kids and even many adults are constantly pissin' freely!
Redditor 1: After reading this post and thread, I am never going into a body of water again in my life.

My old roommate couldn't understand why I didn't use the hot tub. It's quite simple: his stinky teenage boys and their stinky friends would hop in after school without showering beforehand. It wasn't so much a hot tub as a communal bathtub full of teen boys' dirty bathwater. I'd be surprised if they weren't pissing in it.

My Spirit Otter
Jun 15, 2006


CANADA DOESN'T GET PENS LIKE THIS

SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made American Products. Bitch.

BrigadierSensible posted:

It just makes you a joyless prig and not someone I would want to actively be friends with.

lol why the gently caress would you want to be around kids that arent yours? Theyre germ factories, you have to watch what you say around them, they dont get any good jokes, and they cant hold their liquor for poo poo

Bright Bart
Apr 27, 2020

False. There is only one electron and it has never stopped

therobit posted:

Good for you snergle, you used the big kid potty!

Between 40 and 60 percent of children in the US are completely potty trained by 3, meaning roughly half aren’t.

What's actually weird is what I hear from teachers which is that they see more and more children in kindergarten and occasionally in the first grade who are still needing diaper changes. That's for children without officially noted delays and apparently that very rarely happened in the past.

Bright Bart fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jun 15, 2023

SulfurMonoxideCute
Feb 9, 2008

I was under direct orders not to die
🐵❌💀

Someone asked for this a while back.

My (25M) subs (23F, 26F, 22M, 28M, 28M) have unionized


quote:

I have been in a committed polyamorous dominant submissive relationship for the past three months. I’m the Dom and I have 5 subs, three men and 2 women. It’s been going great, it’s all consensual and everyone if having a good time. We do not live together, but we hang out at my apartment almost every day. It is not a purely sexual relationship either. We all share an emotional connection and it’s like any other relationship but poly and bdsm. Of course, as the dom, there are some rules. They need to call me master. No kissing anyone except for me. If i tell someone to do something, they do it (within bounds of course). The punishments depend on the person, some of my subs get whipped, some publicly humiliated. It all depends on what I agree on with each sub. We have safe words too, and we stop the roleplay whenever anyone says one. It seems weird to vanillas but this is what we enjoy and we like to be open about it. Everything has been great. At least I thought everything was going great. I woke up a couple days ago and told one of my subs to get me a cup of coffee. He didn’t do it. I told him that I was going to punish him (public humiliation which can be easily resisted) and he said that he wouldn’t do it. Now, if one of my subs acts like this I break it off with them so I threatened him that I would kick him out of the relationship. The other subs chimed in and said that if I kick him out, they all leave. That’s right; my submissives have unionized. They handed me a sheet of paper with a list of demands. The demands included (I’m not sharing all of them for their privacy), “Allow kissing between subs” and “Demands are to only be followed after 8 pm”. I tried to negotiate, but they were firm in their demands. I couldn’t punish them. My hands are tied, and I have no power anymore. I told them that I would think about it for a couple days. They haven’t left me yet, they still stay overnight, but this list of demands is lingering over our relationship and our sex life. They want to keep a dominant, and no one has stepped up to replace me. They thought about finding a new dom online but only if I don’t give into their demands. I want to negotiate because I don’t want to give up too much power. I offered “kissing subs only after 6 pm” and “follow demands after 1 pm”. I also offered following each demand separately but not both together. I really do have feelings for them, and they have feelings for me. But the power balance was shifted when they unionized and I don’t know what to do. The relationship isn’t as satisfying anymore and I don’t know if it will ever be. What should I do. Do I let them get a new dom and leave them? Or do I give into their demands and relinquish some of my power?

Cowslips Warren
Oct 29, 2005

What use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?

Grimey Drawer

SulfurMonoxideCute posted:

Someone asked for this a while back.

My (25M) subs (23F, 26F, 22M, 28M, 28M) have unionized

That is loving perfect and should be used in every anti-union protest.

Beachcomber
May 21, 2007

Another day in paradise.


Slippery Tilde

Remulak posted:

Aha, I had one kid that resisted potty training, and when we got a definable goal and reason it was complete literally the next day. In retrospect there was six months where ‘sorry no swimming you’re not potty trained’ would have been a godsend.

What was the reason?

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Baronjutter posted:

I had a vegan friend in the early 2000's before things were really being labeled as vegan or not. He was a little bit of a preachy vegan but not too bad. The thing is, he was purposefully ignorant of so many foods so that it wouldn't count as cheating. Any time one of us would educate him on a thing he was eating not being vegan he'd get all sulky and would claim we were doing it just to stick it to him. Eventually he asked us to just never inform him of the vegan status of food, let him find our himself and police himself. Fair enough, but man just declare yourself a vegetarian if you want to keep a million non-vegan cheat foods. Or just don't declare yourself anything, just eat what you want. if that means almost no animal products, great. But this was the early 2000's when veganism and its converts were at their most preachy. He was so attached to the idea of being a superior evolved vegan that "didn't murder for flavour" but he wanted to keep eating animal products in blissful ignorance.

So he's a vegan, he just not very good at it. Nothing wrong with that, how many people are perfect at something the first time they try it?

Bright Bart
Apr 27, 2020

False. There is only one electron and it has never stopped
The subs haven't so much formed a union as presented OP with a Magna Carta. Although he's not so much the king of his little kingdom but one of those despots who can personally boss around any citizen but can be overuled or deposed by unanimous vote of the populace. I guess the tyrant of some ancient Greek city-states or a despot President in some republics?

Kudos for subverting the dom-sub relationship.

BRB cheating an app for that.

Bright Bart fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jun 15, 2023

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

Bright Bart posted:

What's actually weird is what I hear from teachers which is that they see more and more children in kindergarten and occasionally in the first grade who are still needing dial changes. That's for children without officially noted delays and apparently that very rarely happened in the past.

A lot of people apparently just became feral during covid.

Braincloud
Sep 28, 2004

I forgot...how BIG...

spite house posted:

For gently caress's sake just have everyone kick down a few bucks and hire a couple of sitters to wrangle the kids during the party, this is not hard.

For gently caress’s sake just have all the parents be responsible for their own loving kids and arrange child care if they want to attend the party, this is not hard.

Bright Bart
Apr 27, 2020

False. There is only one electron and it has never stopped
Vegans who eat dairy products or eggs are both vegan and not vegan.

They're still vegan in their dietary orientation(?) and philosophy (even if it's as simple as "it's healthier for me). But they're not vegan in the sense that their diet doesn't exclude non-vegan foods and beverages.

If someone who doesn't drink recreationally knowingly consumes medicines that contain large amounts of alcohol they're still a non-drinker in one sense but not in another. Although for such a case we might not call them a teetatoller if they cheated with even low ABV shandies.

Maybe more like if a Luddite was wilfully ignorant of when certain technologies were invented or sometimes gave into temptation and went to see a film in IMAX 3D. Still a Luddite but also not.

Bright Bart fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jun 15, 2023

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
And don't even get us started on honey.

Bright Bart
Apr 27, 2020

False. There is only one electron and it has never stopped

Ghost Leviathan posted:

And don't even get us started on honey.

A few years back during a hospital challenge to keep vegan (among a number of different goals such as working out X times a week) I casually asked if honey was vegan and everyone in the room looked at me like I was a child. Of course it's an animal product. But it also kills bees in several ways. And I learned that even non-vegans know this.

Some folks avoid leather as its production kills animals. I wonder if they all know so does most silk production.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Dont come at me with your vegan lifestyle unless you live nude and your wife is a river

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MisterOblivious
Mar 17, 2010

by sebmojo

Bright Bart posted:

Vegans who eat dairy products or eggs are both vegan and not vegan.

No they aren't both vegan and not vegan: there's a term for vegans that eat milk and eggs and it's not "vegan."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacto-ovo_vegetarianism

That vegan :airquote: up-thread that eats cheese and mayo is upset that their identity as a vegan is a lie. They're vegetarian and that's fine! There's no need for them to get bent out of shape about it.

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