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kirbysuperstar posted:I'm not even sure if they've acknowledged the "sometimes windows explorer just brings itself into focus if you have a folder open" bug That is a crazy bug. I'm glad I've not experienced it!
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Jun 9, 2023 12:37
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kirbysuperstar posted:I'm not even sure if they've acknowledged the "sometimes windows explorer just brings itself into focus if you have a folder open" bug drat, I didn’t even consider asking about that because I thought it was only something specific to my (lovely) janitorial skillz.
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Jun 9, 2023 20:27
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kirbysuperstar posted:I'm not even sure if they've acknowledged the "sometimes windows explorer just brings itself into focus if you have a folder open" bug They have, it’s been fixed in insider builds for a couple months. It’ll release who knows when
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Jun 11, 2023 14:44
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CBD Corndog posted:They have, it’s been fixed in insider builds for a couple months. It’ll release who knows when Oh thank god. Now all I need to do is figure out why UEFI and Windows each see a different HDMI port on my GPU as "the first one". For some reason that really bugs me.
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Jun 12, 2023 10:45
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I thought that was just me... Good to know it's an actual issue and I'm not just crazy.
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Jun 13, 2023 22:35
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kirbysuperstar posted:Oh thank god. yeah I have to plug my monitor 1 to dp port 2 for it to turn on on boot instead of the secondary one, but windows sees it the other way around. same with linux lol
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Jun 14, 2023 04:40
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Celexi posted:yeah I have to plug my monitor 1 to dp port 2 for it to turn on on boot instead of the secondary one, but windows sees it the other way around. same with linux lol You know I never tried it with Linux Guess it's..an nvidia thing then?
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Jun 14, 2023 10:15
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Getting a 13700K so had to update to Win11. Oh, well, not really a big deal, except that I absolutely hate taskbar icons grouped without labels, which is the only option Win11 currently gives you. I see that it's allegedly in the pipeline for the future but who knows when, and the only third-party programs that do it seem to be paid apps, so... which of those do people prefer, and is it worth using one at all/using one in the time before Windows natively supports it again?
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Jun 14, 2023 20:24
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Well, I mean, not knowing what files and folders you have open, is kind of a big handicap! Worth spending some money to not have to deal with imo, except StartIsBack broke other things for me, namely the on-screen keyboard (I'm on a tablet). After a couple of months dealing with alternative KBs, which all effing suuuuck, I broke and returned everything to the default state. It made me start thinking of a way to wipe the tablet and downgrade it to Win10 somehow. Luckily, either Windows or StartIsBack has updated recently, and everything now works as it should.
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Jun 15, 2023 07:36
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disaster pastor posted:Getting a 13700K so had to update to Win11. Oh, well, not really a big deal, except that I absolutely hate taskbar icons grouped without labels, which is the only option Win11 currently gives you. I see that it's allegedly in the pipeline for the future but who knows when, and the only third-party programs that do it seem to be paid apps, so... which of those do people prefer, and is it worth using one at all/using one in the time before Windows natively supports it again? Explorer Patcher, I believe can do it and is free/FOSS
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Jun 15, 2023 07:41
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kirbysuperstar posted:Explorer Patcher, I believe can do it and is free/FOSS Oh wow, this just makes everything basically what it was in Windows 10, even the start menu, in like 5 seconds.
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Jun 15, 2023 10:37
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Sent my PC into a never-ending loop of killing Explorer and restarting it, rendering my computer unusable. I probably didn't read the instructions properly (or at all). Had to roll back to a system restore point.
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Jun 15, 2023 13:26
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kirbysuperstar posted:Explorer Patcher, I believe can do it and is free/FOSS This is perfect, thank you!
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Jun 15, 2023 13:55
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Is a grouped taskbar really... that bad? For quick switching between a couple of windows, alt+tab and the like are preferred. If you can, tile windows you work with simultaneously so they show all at once. And otherwise having stuff grouped is more organized and less cluttered. I feel like people don't give grouped a serious chance.
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Jun 15, 2023 15:09
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Pvt. Parts posted:Is a grouped taskbar really... that bad? For quick switching between a couple of windows, alt+tab and the like are preferred. If you can, tile windows you work with simultaneously so they show all at once. And otherwise having stuff grouped is more organized and less cluttered. I feel like people don't give grouped a serious chance. Yes, it’s that bad - I don’t want to tab through the multiple programs I have open, I don’t want them all tiled because it makes them unusable, and I don’t give a poo poo about clutter on my taskbar. E: and yes, I gave it a chance.
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Jun 15, 2023 16:43
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Pvt. Parts posted:Is a grouped taskbar really... that bad? For quick switching between a couple of windows, alt+tab and the like are preferred. If you can, tile windows you work with simultaneously so they show all at once. And otherwise having stuff grouped is more organized and less cluttered. I feel like people don't give grouped a serious chance. Yeah I've just accepted this is something people have strong feelings about and doesn't bother me. I set it back to the old way when it first showed up on windows, but on a reinstall one time I forgot and only realized a few months later when people were yelling about it in a thread.
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Jun 15, 2023 18:47
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I assume that people who hate grouped are generally use fewer apps but many windows of those apps. Alt-tab starts to suck once you have enough windows to cycle through, and tiled windows are also strictly limited by screen real estate. I've been on the grouped side since day one -- actually before day one, back in the XP days I ran litestep and iirc had some kinda dock with combined apps. But the only thing I regularly run many windows of is the browser.
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Jun 15, 2023 19:14
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Since Windows has forced me to use grouped since I upgraded to 11 six months ago, I still find myself hating it. Clicking twice to switch apps is annoying. It's nice that Windows now has tabbed explorer, so that one doesn't get grouped. Same with Notepad and command prompt. But other apps, such as Adobe Reader, use a single tabbed window but STILL do the grouped thing in the taskbar. I've started alt+tabbing more frequently since most of the annoyance is when switching back and forth between two programs.
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Jun 15, 2023 19:21
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Pvt. Parts posted:Is a grouped taskbar really... that bad? For quick switching between a couple of windows, alt+tab and the like are preferred. If you can, tile windows you work with simultaneously so they show all at once. And otherwise having stuff grouped is more organized and less cluttered. I feel like people don't give grouped a serious chance. Bad or not, it should be exposed as an option. The whole point of a general purpose operating system up until Windows 8 or so was that you can turn some number of knobs to craft the user experience you wanted. Even if some of those knobs are cursed, they should be exposed. It is completely and utterly inexcusible for a general purpose operating system to behave like babby's first phone app. My OS should be not be opinionated about my workflow, and should support as much as it reasonably can. It is completely insane to me that Windows 95 has more knobs per feature then Windows 11 and that's the real crime here. Windows 11 wants to rigidly dictate how you should interface with.
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Jun 15, 2023 19:36
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:Bad or not, it should be exposed as an option. The whole point of a general purpose operating system up until Windows 8 or so was that you can turn some number of knobs to craft the user experience you wanted. Even if some of those knobs are cursed, they should be exposed. It is completely and utterly inexcusible for a general purpose operating system to behave like babby's first phone app. My OS should be not be opinionated about my workflow, and should support as much as it reasonably can. You definitely don't sound like a software engineer (and I'm pretty sure this conversation has come up at least once before in this thread). Organizations only have a finite amount of resources to maintain software and build new features. The more fiddly knobs the developers have to maintain, the less they can improve things or modernize the infrastructure of the software.
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Jun 15, 2023 19:55
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hooah posted:You definitely don't sound like a software engineer (and I'm pretty sure this conversation has come up at least once before in this thread). Organizations only have a finite amount of resources to maintain software and build new features. The more fiddly knobs the developers have to maintain, the less they can improve things or modernize the infrastructure of the software. It's unreasonable to break basic features the os has had for years, and are trivial to maintain
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Jun 15, 2023 19:58
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hooah posted:You definitely don't sound like a software engineer (and I'm pretty sure this conversation has come up at least once before in this thread). Organizations only have a finite amount of resources to maintain software and build new features. The more fiddly knobs the developers have to maintain, the less they can improve things or modernize the infrastructure of the software. I dunno, I think some of the regressions in Windows 11 were really arbitrary and dumb. No small taskbar icons. No ungrouped taskbar. No moving the taskbar to the side of the screen. These were really basic UI elements that have been standard and expected for years, and Microsoft yanked them for little or no reason.
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Jun 15, 2023 20:00
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I dunno, I think some of the regressions in Windows 11 were really arbitrary and dumb. No small taskbar icons. No ungrouped taskbar. No moving the taskbar to the side of the screen. These were really basic UI elements that have been standard and expected for years, and Microsoft yanked them for little or no reason. it sounds like they probably rewrote the taskbar code for some reason and didn't have time/resources to implement the other stuff. like it's a feature regression overall, but not arbitrarily removing things to go gently caress you.
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Jun 15, 2023 20:04
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hooah posted:You definitely don't sound like a software engineer (and I'm pretty sure this conversation has come up at least once before in this thread). Organizations only have a finite amount of resources to maintain software and build new features. The more fiddly knobs the developers have to maintain, the less they can improve things or modernize the infrastructure of the software. A primary goal of building large scale production software that you know is going to see updates is to build it in a way that you don't pin yourself in a corner when you want to add a feature, or replace some infrastructure. If Microsoft 'must' kill a ton of features to 'modernize' their OS, that's just bad engineering. If you aren't building your general purpose OS with idea that you are going to want to turn knobs, that's just bad engineering. Building all of Windows is a super, super hard thing to do, but building a taskbar or a Start Menu with options and knobs when they've both previously existed AND 3rd parties are doing it with way less access and information isn't an issue of, 'engineering is hard' - this is an issue of incompetence somewhere in the chain. And what's bonus frustrating is that Windows clearly already does this in a lot of places. Almost all things win32 still just work after 20 years of NT being baseline, and it's not as if the OS is somehow suffering because you can run a Winforms app targeting Framework 3. I'd bet every cent I have that this is not caused by 'We have to make hard choices in the infrastructure' and is instead caused by bad direction and general incompetence. It's anyone's guess where that is, but the assertion that this is just a consequence of 'engineering is hard' doesn't survive scrutiny. Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jun 15, 2023 |
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Jun 15, 2023 20:21
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wa27 posted:Since Windows has forced me to use grouped since I upgraded to 11 six months ago, I still find myself hating it. Clicking twice to switch apps is annoying. It's nice that Windows now has tabbed explorer, so that one doesn't get grouped. Same with Notepad and command prompt. But other apps, such as Adobe Reader, use a single tabbed window but STILL do the grouped thing in the taskbar. Why are you clicking twice? Just hover the group and all the windows within appear with previews. Not picking on you or anyone in particular, but it bothers me when people won't even give new UI paradigms the light of day to see how they work out in practice. That's how we get stale systems and stay stuck in the past, leaving some great ideas on the table. I'm not saying that what is new is always better, but often there are redeeming qualities beyond what we are comfortable with. Part of it is MS's fault, they won't or can't grow the balls to convert all the legacy poo poo scattered throughout the OS and create a truly comprehensive experience. So instead the actually good work of some of their UX engineers gets lost among the rightful jeering at the studio at large.
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Jun 15, 2023 20:57
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Pvt. Parts posted:Is a grouped taskbar really... that bad? For quick switching between a couple of windows, alt+tab and the like are preferred. If you can, tile windows you work with simultaneously so they show all at once. And otherwise having stuff grouped is more organized and less cluttered. I feel like people don't give grouped a serious chance. Yes. I have >3800 horizontal pixels and I'd like to be able to have applications where I've got a lot of windows open to "dominate" the taskbar. Hovering over a tiny icon and waiting to then re-train my eyes on which window to click sucks. I've gotten used to it but I will turn it back the moment they re-update.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:14
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hooah posted:You definitely don't sound like a software engineer (and I'm pretty sure this conversation has come up at least once before in this thread). Organizations only have a finite amount of resources to maintain software and build new features. The more fiddly knobs the developers have to maintain, the less they can improve things or modernize the infrastructure of the software. Good uses for finite resources: • dark pattern nag screens for microsoft accounts • integrating bing into the start menu so type-to-find is useless • adding even more data collection to your browser than google puts in chrome Bad uses for finite resources: • maintaining simple features that they somehow had the resources to create in 1995
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Jun 15, 2023 21:14
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Klyith posted:Good uses for finite resources: 
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Jun 15, 2023 21:18
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hooah posted:You definitely don't sound like a software engineer (and I'm pretty sure this conversation has come up at least once before in this thread). Organizations only have a finite amount of resources to maintain software and build new features. The more fiddly knobs the developers have to maintain, the less they can improve things or modernize the infrastructure of the software. I can accept the argument of "finite resources" from Gnome. I don't like it and I stopped using Gnome, but I can accept it. It's free software, after all, and if the developer doesn't want to maintain that checkbox ... it is their right. Microsoft has infinite resources as far as maintaining 3 checkboxes is concerned, that argument does not hold water. At all. They simply wanted to, or had other ideas (they let designers run the show who sacrifice function for form) or just told their users to suck it up and gently caress off. Resources were absolutely never a concern. Not with 3 checkboxes in windows.
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Jun 15, 2023 22:30
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It's me, I'm the PM at Microsoft that decided to axe all of your obscure taskbar settings. And I'll do it again.
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Jun 15, 2023 22:33
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Pvt. Parts posted:Why are you clicking twice? Just hover the group and all the windows within appear with previews.
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Jun 15, 2023 22:43
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wa27 posted:It's faster to click. The whole problem is the extra time it takes - not the strain on my finger. You're holding it wrong.
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Jun 15, 2023 22:48
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Internet Explorer posted:It's me, I'm the PM at Microsoft that decided to axe all of your obscure taskbar settings. And I'll do it again. u monster
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Jun 15, 2023 23:06
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Volguus posted:I can accept the argument of "finite resources" from Gnome. I don't like it and I stopped using Gnome, but I can accept it. It's free software, after all, and if the developer doesn't want to maintain that checkbox ... it is their right. And yet KDE has less resources than Gnome, let alone MS, and they have more checkboxes than anyone. KDE has checkboxes for their checkboxes. The idea that this type of thing is a ton of work to make or creates unsustainable technical debt is dumb. There are plenty of well-run software projects I can point to with huge amounts of behavior settings / customization / flexible UI that work great and have been around for ages. Where it impedes you is when you do pointless re-implementation rearrange the deck chairs projects (win11 taskbar, every major version of gnome, mozilla) and you have to implement all that stuff again from scratch. Then it's effort.
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Jun 15, 2023 23:09
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I'm not an UI engineer or accessibility expert, but a ton of checkboxes is not something I want from the most used OS on the planet. My 70+ year old mom can figure it out and I have no problem either so they're doing something right. It's very ok.
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Jun 15, 2023 23:28
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Didn’t they introduce grouped taskbar items as the default in like Windows 7? Not to defend MS too much, but I doubt maintaining a legacy setting in their primary multitasking dock is as easy as keeping a few check boxes around.
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Jun 15, 2023 23:51
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Windows XP, about 23 years ago.
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Jun 15, 2023 23:54
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Last Chance posted:Didn’t they introduce grouped taskbar items as the default in like Windows 7? Not to defend MS too much, but I doubt maintaining a legacy setting in their primary multitasking dock is as easy as keeping a few check boxes around. It's really simple UI. The alt-tab last still shows you a list of each window separately, doing the exact same thing that an ungrouped list in the taskbar would do. Also they managed it in windows 8 & 10, which transformed the taskbar into a UWP app. This was 100% a design choice, not a technical one.
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Jun 16, 2023 00:09
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I see having a full entry for a window in my taskbar as very much like having tabs in my browsers. If I had to navigate my tabs in the same way I have to navigate grouped icons on the taskbar I would not be a happy netizen. At this point my favorite desktop is definitely KDE, and the only machine I have running Windows 11 is my touchscreen laptop that came with it.
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Jun 16, 2023 00:13
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I see having a full entry for a window in my taskbar as very much like having tabs in my browsers. If I had to navigate my tabs in the same way I have to navigate grouped icons on the taskbar I would not be a happy netizen. You know why you have tabs in browsers and not separate browser windows as a default?
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Jun 16, 2023 00:18
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