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i still think having accounts having an account creation fee is good and probably one of SA's greatest ideas. anything that puts a small road bump for bad users is good. though there's some debate on if this also signification affects other groups.
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Jun 13, 2023 02:34
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PhazonLink posted:i still think having accounts having an account creation fee is good and probably one of SA's greatest ideas. If the Leper's Colony is to be believed, there's permabanned people who spend hundreds of dollars a year buying new accounts to make one bad post before getting shut down.
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Jun 13, 2023 02:43
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Yeah so it's a good motivator for normal people to behave and the absolute freaks are a steady supply of income.
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Jun 13, 2023 04:44
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PhazonLink posted:i still think having accounts having an account creation fee is good and probably one of SA's greatest ideas. Somehow this doesn’t apply to Elon’s Twitter and the inverse is true.
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Jun 13, 2023 10:24
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maybe? like theres some articles out there that say that even his stupid muskrats pay for a month and then cancel or dont renew because lol paying for barely anything more. like atleast being lazy about canceling streaming services or a gym emembership means you have access to legit things.
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Jun 13, 2023 20:38
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Szmitten posted:Somehow this doesn’t apply to Elon’s Twitter and the inverse is true. You don't have to pay to tweet, paying just gets you the blue check and algorithmic preference. It's more like a custom title in the SA world, if custom titles came with free thread stickying
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Jun 13, 2023 21:01
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socialsecurity posted:Yeah can't quite blame Discord, but it's getting increasingly annoying that to get any real info on like a smaller game you have to join their stupid rear end Discord. True and on top of that, freakin' Ubisoft, who can't decide from one day to the next whether they hate their customers or their employees more, shut down their forums and moved to Discord.
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Jun 14, 2023 11:43
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The only time I've ever used Discord was when it looked like SA was about to go down the pan and everyone was hurriedly setting up continuations of their favourite threads, and after that didn't happen I never went back. Is Discord really that massive a thing? (Not that it matters if it's self-destructing through bone-headed management decisions.)
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Jun 14, 2023 15:23
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Payndz posted:The only time I've ever used Discord was when it looked like SA was about to go down the pan and everyone was hurriedly setting up continuations of their favourite threads, and after that didn't happen I never went back. Is Discord really that massive a thing? (Not that it matters if it's self-destructing through bone-headed management decisions.) Yes. It complete owns the field of casual real-time public chat. There are other apps for real-time private chat (signal, imessage, telegram, etc) and professional real-time chat (Slack) but if you want to set up a chat room that anyone can join, Discord is the way to go
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Jun 14, 2023 15:28
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Payndz posted:Is Discord really that massive a thing? (Not that it matters if it's self-destructing through bone-headed management decisions.) It's very much the default service people use to keep in touch with between video game communities. It's been a pretty safe assumption in the last few years that anyone I've met in a game that I want to keep in touch with outside of the game has a Discord account. It's pretty much the main way my group of friends keeps in touch because we can easily have a bunch of channels to talk and share stuff in. Thus, the service being run into the ground by shithead former Meta execs is really loving sad. Discord servers replacing websites as game knowledge repositories sucks, but it's a huge misdirection of blame to say that Discord is at fault for it. gently caress, blame Fandom/Wikia or whatever the hell it is these days for being so gratuitously ad-infested that it barely functions as a website any more, that poo poo was a decent middle ground between custom websites and GameFAQs walkthroughs.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:11
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Teratrain posted:It's very much the default service people use to keep in touch with between video game communities. It's been a pretty safe assumption in the last few years that anyone I've met in a game that I want to keep in touch with outside of the game has a Discord account.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:53
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Video game translators (as in, professionals) also seem to use Discord as Slack for whatever reason. As in, a lot of actual work get coordinated there.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:19
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It's pretty common for gamedev and open source communities too.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:46
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Only Kindness posted:True and on top of that, freakin' Ubisoft, who can't decide from one day to the next whether they hate their customers or their employees more, shut down their forums and moved to Discord. Ubisoft has always been weird about communicating with their customers. For years, if your Ubisoft Connect account was compromised, or you couldn't recover your password for whatever reason, the best way to recover it was to contact Ubisoft via Facebook messenger. Not their customer service email address, not their online forms, and not their forums. You would get a response from any of the latter methods, but it might take hours to day. Facebook? Response within minutes usually. Clarste posted:Video game translators (as in, professionals) also seem to use Discord as Slack for whatever reason. As in, a lot of actual work get coordinated there. This is probably just for simplified logistics - it's not unreasonable to think that most translators are gamers, and this keeps everyone on one platform for all communications.
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Jun 15, 2023 05:58
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Everything I've heard is that 'corporate' instant messaging systems are all absolute garbage that makes everything harder for no reason.
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Jun 15, 2023 07:16
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Everything I've heard is that 'corporate' instant messaging systems are all absolute garbage that makes everything harder for no reason. They make sense in specific use cases, but were over adopted early in the pandemic to replace meetings for remote work, rather than rethinking how people could collaborate more effectively with those limitations.
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Jun 15, 2023 08:01
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Everything I've heard is that 'corporate' instant messaging systems are all absolute garbage that makes everything harder for no reason. At Charter Communications in the early 'aughts we had pink notes; a petty simple one but with everyone using it constantly and it making a lil ding noise for each message received it was like the pink noise in a casino from all the slot machines. I think thats why they named it pink notes, but they got rid of it and switched to emails 6 months or so after I started there.
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Jun 15, 2023 08:05
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 This doesn’t seem like something Reddit would post if things were going well. They aren’t mad. Don’t say they are mad, etc
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Jun 15, 2023 21:26
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Reddit's going to go straight down the Twitter hole of being even worse than it already is when it basically makes itself even more impossible to moderate, isn't it? loving hell that mainstream social media is all turning into 4chan with even more boomers.
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Jun 16, 2023 06:16
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Some additional context on the Reddit blackout. Why disabled users joined the Reddit blackout https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/13/23759761/reddit-disability-accessibility-blackout-api-blind The cherry on top: "As for r/blind, it remains dark in protest, with a bitter twist: thanks to access conflicts, only a sighted person could actually flip the switch that set the community to private. "
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Jun 16, 2023 12:50
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On the topic of why everyone uses discord for repositories of knowledge and small communities its function as an instant messenger first an foremost bypasses the attention economy rent seeking of the other social media. If you announce a local competitive tournament event on twitter maybe 1 in 10 of potentially interested people ever see it in their feeds. Same as on Facebook. On reedit, unless its pinned, its probably going to get buried by that days 100 memes and 50 arguments. positing it on a wiki is kinda bloated and people have no way of knowing to check (same applies to major balance updates etc). Posting it as a thread in #Fight_Club_IRL on your communities discord means people are going to see it, you can have rolls where people have opted in for alerts in their local area or just in general specific to that. Its an actually functional communications tool, for now. That is to say, in general it still acts as a common carrier of information. Barrel Cactaur fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 14:25
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I heard the CEO (?) of reddit interview on npr this morning. He was very Not Mad and wanted to make clear that reddit was not being harmed by the blackout and that furthermore it is in great financial shape and definitely won’t fall apart as a result of people not wanting to use it any more. He also said that letting other apps have api access for free was allowing them to steal from reddit and that everyone in the world who wasn’t a thief would agree with that statement.
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Jun 16, 2023 15:23
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Does anyone know how much free API access might have actually been costing Reddit, or Twitter for that matter? Does seem like a flailing move to try and respond to VC money and low interest rates drying up regardless. If they did what wikipedia does (or a Freepathon lol) and just begged for money they probably would have gotten enough to cover costs, but maybe that wouldn't look as good for ~~the investors~~~.
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Jun 16, 2023 15:30
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Mercury_Storm posted:Does anyone know how much free API access might have actually been costing Reddit, or Twitter for that matter? Does seem like a flailing move to try and respond to VC money and low interest rates drying up regardless. If they did what wikipedia does (or a Freepathon lol) and just begged for money they probably would have gotten enough to cover costs, but maybe that wouldn't look as good for ~~the investors~~~. I don't think anyone outside Reddit has real insight into this, but this is the rationale the creator of Apollo used to characterize the API pricing as unfair, from his post announcing the app shutdown: quote:Less than 2 years ago they said they crossed $100M in quarterly revenue for the first time ever, if we assume despite the economic downturn that they've managed to do that every single quarter now, and for your best quarter, you've doubled it to $200M. Let's also be generous and go far, far above industry estimates and say you made another $50M in Reddit Premium subscriptions. That's $550M in revenue per year, let's say an even $600M. In 2019, they said they hit 430 million monthly active users, and to also be generous, let's say they haven't added a single active user since then (if we do revenue-per-user calculations, the more users, the less revenue each user would contribute). So at generous estimates of $600M and 430M monthly active users, that's $1.40 per user per year, or $0.12 monthly. These own numbers they've given are also seemingly inline with industry estimates as well. It seems way, way out of line with the cash flow associated with Reddit's operation, so the costs associated with running the API are probably much lower haveblue fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 15:45
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whydirt posted:Some additional context on the Reddit blackout. I help mod another disability-related sub, and we participated in the blackout with the intention of effectively staying that way. Ended up switching it to restricted posting on the 14th so we could poll the users on how to proceed from that point. We had a significant amount of users blaming us for revoking access to their only source of info/resources related to our disability and ThE COMmUniTy, despite us linking to our Discord server and another off-site forum on the "subreddit is private" page  We'll probably do a mod sticky post prior to the 30th with those links / info and a bit more, then effectively let the users loose into an unmoderated wasteland past that point since none of our mod team wants to use Reddits poo poo-tier first party mod tools to babysit adults for free Professor Moriarty fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 15:49
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I will confess that I find Discord impossible to figure out. I added a bunch of channels back when there were concerns that SA would shut down. The UI is festooned with alerts and notifications that never take me to the right place, I can't clear most of them, and sometimes I can't even tell what channel I'm in. I'm often left or right clicking on UI elements hoping for a certain response that I usually don't get. There's some kind of chat program paradigm shift that I missed out on that's left me behind.
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Jun 16, 2023 16:25
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There's a ton of great goon gaming discords which have been awesome for getting together for multiplayer gaming. I don't have enough RL friends who are gamers, and the ones I do have don't really care for multiplayer games, so when I want to play one it usually means jumping in with goons. And by and large it's been a good experience. I also have a little server with a couple other goons I'm pretty close with and we play ttrpgs over it and mp video games when there's something we all want to play. I realize there are other ways to keep in touch and we could easily just use another voice chat app, but it's easier just to use our discord server to do everything. We even have channels for a couple of our artists to post sketches and stuff like that. It really works for us and we actually use a lot of the features, so I'll be a little bummed if it falls apart due to bad management.
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Jun 16, 2023 16:32
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Mercury_Storm posted:Does anyone know how much free API access might have actually been costing Reddit, or Twitter for that matter? Does seem like a flailing move to try and respond to VC money and low interest rates drying up regardless. If they did what wikipedia does (or a Freepathon lol) and just begged for money they probably would have gotten enough to cover costs, but maybe that wouldn't look as good for ~~the investors~~~. The primary cost is currently opportunity cost, this is largely a response to being scraped for profit by the Machine Learning Marketing firms. Probably between 1/100000 and 1/10000th of a cent depending on the size of the post. 1/100th for 10 min of audio, 1/20th for 10 min of video. Reddit uses their API very inefficiently when self dealing, like by an almost comical amount. I would not be surprised if they were doing basically everything as inefficiently as possible even when handling API calls. By their own numbers opening the reddit app should cost like 25 cents for 30 minutes.
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Jun 16, 2023 17:04
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Barrel Cactaur posted:The primary cost is currently opportunity cost, this is largely a response to being scraped for profit by the Machine Learning Marketing firms. That's the publicly stated reason, but it's really more about monetizing the human community. Third party apps tend not to show ads, or at least not ads that feed revenue back to Reddit At least it prompted the extremely funny reply from OpenAI which was essentially "oh that's ok, we've finished scraping you and we don't need to do it any more"
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Jun 16, 2023 17:08
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Dick Trauma posted:I will confess that I find Discord impossible to figure out. I added a bunch of channels back when there were concerns that SA would shut down. The UI is festooned with alerts and notifications that never take me to the right place, I can't clear most of them, and sometimes I can't even tell what channel I'm in. I'm often left or right clicking on UI elements hoping for a certain response that I usually don't get. There are definitely too many notifications on by default, but I think that's a legacy from its original scope as a comms app for smaller gaming circles. Bigger servers are especially bad for this if they're not strict with mass pings so most people tend to disable notifications and only specifically re-enable them for things they care about hearing quickly.
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Jun 16, 2023 17:16
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Mercury_Storm posted:Does anyone know how much free API access might have actually been costing Reddit, or Twitter for that matter? Does seem like a flailing move to try and respond to VC money and low interest rates drying up regardless. If they did what wikipedia does (or a Freepathon lol) and just begged for money they probably would have gotten enough to cover costs, but maybe that wouldn't look as good for ~~the investors~~~. That depends heavily on how you define "cost". If you define "cost" as "how much does an API call cost Reddit to serve", the answer is by definition "Less than it would cost to view Reddit normally through their own website". After all, APIs just serve up the exact specific data that's being asked for, without any of the UI or other unnecessary side data that Reddit serves up on every page load. While it's entirely possible that a particular API consumer could use it inefficiently and request data more often than a normal Reddit pageview would, that's something that can be fixed with API limits and caps, as well as addressing the issue with individual API-consuming apps. On the other hand, Reddit's policy makes perfect sense if you define "cost" as "how much more money Reddit could make if these third-party clients didn't exist". APIs usually don't serve up ads, they don't serve up A/B tests, and they don't serve up whatever nag screens and dark patterns Reddit comes up with to push people down their monetization funnels. They want to force people onto the platform that they fully control so that they can more thoroughly and aggressively monetize their userbase, without having to negotiate the change with third-party viewers. This is hardly a unique pattern to Reddit, either. That's a big portion of what drove the decline of RSS, for instance. As advertising became increasingly important, an increasing number of sites rendered their RSS feeds useless, because they wanted people to actually visit their sites and see all the ads they'd buried the content in. Of course, another part of the decline was the fragmentation of the reader system with the shutdown of Google Reader. While this was never confirmed, there were also theories that the shutdown of Google Reader had to do with a desire to push users to Google+ (which, by then, was clearly struggling) where they could be more thoroughly monetized and advertised to.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:24
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Apparently Reddit is now threatening mods of popular subreddits to re-open or be dethroned and replaced: https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/16/23763538/reddit-blackout-api-protest-mod-replacement-threat https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/reddit-reportedly-begins-telling-mods-to-reopen-shuttered-subreddits-or-face-replacement/ar-AA1cEnVg So much for "the blackouts don't hurt us at all and we're definitely not worried or mad about them" Tuxedo Gin fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jun 17, 2023 |
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Jun 17, 2023 03:23
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Teratrain posted:There are definitely too many notifications on by default, but I think that's a legacy from its original scope as a comms app for smaller gaming circles. Bigger servers are especially bad for this if they're not strict with mass pings so most people tend to disable notifications and only specifically re-enable them for things they care about hearing quickly. I really don't want any pings unless someone is talking to me, personally. Joining a big "community" server seems like an advanced step that should only be done later.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:22
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Definitely a problem that by default, PM pings and server pings are the same thing and you have to manually mute a server to not be pinged by literally every channel. Just a problem with what happens when an instant messaging and voice chat program becomes used for goddamn everything.
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Jun 17, 2023 05:38
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I disagree, all internet services should start from everything being reply all, all the time at there heart, just you know, so everyone feels included and no one is left out! In fact they should just get rid of unique email addresses entirely. Everyone is just email@email.com with a shared in and out box.
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Jun 17, 2023 10:48
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You guys know that you can set discord servers to only ping you when you're personally @'d, right? It's dumb that that's not the default and you have to manually set it for each server but still
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Jun 17, 2023 13:29
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Digamma-F-Wau posted:You guys know that you can set discord servers to only ping you when you're personally @'d, right? It's dumb that that's not the default and you have to manually set it for each server but still You also have to manually mute @here and @everyone
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Jun 17, 2023 13:34
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It's dumb that they're not the defaults but I suspect it's because nobody really stood back and thought "wow, the way this app is used really has changed over the last few years!"
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Jun 17, 2023 13:41
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Absurd Alhazred posted:You also have to manually mute @here and @everyone Oh poo poo you can do that?!? For someone who learned the internet in the mid 90s with AOL chat rooms, I sure do not like using discord. I also hate reddit. I just want a normal chronological post style message board.
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Jun 17, 2023 14:28
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I've gotten used to Discord. I spend a lot of my "social media" time there. But it's not a forums replacement, and it pisses me off when it's used as such.
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Jun 17, 2023 14:35
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