|
YaketySass posted:At this point I wonder if this is as low as they can go but in my heart I know the answer. Nah, this still isn’t worse than Wonder Woman 1984.
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 08:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 19:20 |
|
|
Pirate Jet posted:how the moral of a lot of them lately seems to be "you have to uphold the status quo because every alternative is worse." Which others is that the case for?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 09:20
|
|
|
They made flashpoint worse
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 09:43
|
|
|
YaketySass posted:At this point I wonder if this is as low as they can go but in my heart I know the answer. Yup, Blue Beetle is dropping and turned the Scarab into Siri. Young Justice did it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvPGXWAZb8I It's much more interesting than what's in the trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf7D7iKxMMA (I'm probably gonna cave and see it anyway, though.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 09:51
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:They made flashpoint worse Hard to imagine that, but I guess that's what happens when you replace Thomas Wayne with not-1989 Batman who just so happens to look like 1989 Batman and have the same theme. Still can't believe they shitcanned Holkenborg's Batman theme for the Danny Elfman theme. I like both, but there's nothing wrong with trying something new. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUPhCj8TTQI
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 09:56
|
|
|
lmao the "As of..." disclaimer
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 10:01
|
|
Bogus Adventure posted:Hard to imagine that, but I guess that's what happens when you replace Thomas Wayne with not-1989 Batman who just so happens to look like 1989 Batman and have the same theme. I was still holding out at the very least that they'd have him play thomas wayne who just happened to look and act like 1989 bruce but no.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 10:04
|
|
|
An actual adaptation of Flashpoint would have Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Batman and Lauren Cohen as the Joker which sounds ten times better than whatever the gently caress this wasFangz posted:Which others is that the case for? It’s a common trope in time travel stories but the one I had on the brain while making that post is that World of Warcraft recently added a quest where you had to go to the past to ensure a character gets enslaved because it’s part of their backstory and you have to “preserve the timeline”
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 10:14
|
|
|
Andy Muschietti is directing the Batman: The Brave and the Bold movie while the second Reeves Batman movie is coming out as well Is the first time we're truly getting concurrent superhero movies in live action with different actors playing the headline character Like I know we already have Affleck (...and Keaton) in this one after Pattinson, etc but in terms of the main event, I don't think it's precedented? I guess at one point there was meant to be a Leto solo Joker movie at the same time as Joker 2 but I don't know if that was ever real or just something they told Leto to appease him
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 10:30
|
|
|
Pirate Jet posted:An actual adaptation of Flashpoint would have Jeffrey Dean Morgan as Batman and Lauren Cohen as the Joker which sounds ten times better than whatever the gently caress this was Yeah that's what I thought. There's a fair amount of time travel stories that boil down to "time travel is bad, preserve the timeline". (See back to the future, star trek, primer, timecop etc) But I don't think multiverse stories are necessarily beholden to this idea. In the multiverse story the other universes exist regardless of the actions of the protagonist and are valid in themselves, not some fake or altered copy. The protagonist might wind up with a preference for a particular universe e.g. because it's the one they know or because there's someone they love in it, but there's nothing inherently to fix, and nothing inherently wrong with changing the other universes. Evelyn in EEAAO doesn't have to unhotdoggify the hotdog hands universe, and Tom Holland can happily fix all the villains in No Way Home. So it's curious how Flash breaks from this. I have no intent to see this movie but I do wonder why/how. It sounds kinda incoherent.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 11:09
|
|
Fangz posted:Yeah that's what I thought. There's a fair amount of time travel stories that boil down to "time travel is bad, preserve the timeline". (See back to the future, star trek, primer, timecop etc) It doesn't, really. After watching batman die twice Barry goes "Welp guess I can't save you" and decides his best option is to go back in time and let his mom die. But Young Barry is determined to use time travel to solve all of his problems and becomes obsessed with it and then Future Young Barry, who's become a villain, shows up and tries to kill Barry right in front of Young Barry, so Young Barry takes the shank for him and dies so Barry can go back in time and get their mom killed. But because he put the tomato soup on the wrong shelf, his dad gets freed from jail and batman is George Clooney now.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 11:20
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:It doesn't, really. After watching batman die twice Barry goes "Welp guess I can't save you" and decides his best option is to go back in time and let his mom die. But Young Barry is determined to use time travel to solve all of his problems and becomes obsessed with it and then Future Young Barry, who's become a villain, shows up and tries to kill Barry right in front of Young Barry, so Young Barry takes the shank for him and dies so Barry can go back in time and get their mom killed. But because he put the tomato soup on the wrong shelf, his dad gets freed from jail and batman is George Clooney now. Lmao It's a shame they didn't LEGO Batman canon 
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 12:00
|
|
|
lmfao also, they took away his chest hair
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 12:37
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:It doesn't, really. After watching batman die twice Barry goes "Welp guess I can't save you" and decides his best option is to go back in time and let his mom die. But Young Barry is determined to use time travel to solve all of his problems and becomes obsessed with it and then Future Young Barry, who's become a villain, shows up and tries to kill Barry right in front of Young Barry, so Young Barry takes the shank for him and dies so Barry can go back in time and get their mom killed. But because he put the tomato soup on the wrong shelf, his dad gets freed from jail and batman is George Clooney now. You're kind of underplaying what happens here. The movie is goofy, but it's not quite this truncated and you're leaving out important stuff as to why he makes the decision. Barry 1 sees Batman die, Supergirl die with her blood harvested and Zod succeeding in Terraforming earth. He and Barry 2 are like, "we can change this," so then we do the time travel movie thing where that future knowledge would let them finally overcome the kryptonians. And it seems to work at first; Batman gets warned about the shield, so he helps out on Nam Ek instead, which means the Barrys have more room to fight others and do a much better job; Supergirl does better against Zod because she has Barry's help, Barry 2 manages to kill Faora (while in the first try, they didn't beat any kryptonians) and it looks like they're going to succeed. Then, nope, Batman dies after thinking he killed Nam Ek, but didn't. Supergirl dies to Zod because she's not able to outright kill him like Kal El and he just comes back and kills her and so on. So, this time when the Flashes run back in time, Barry is in the "let's think about what we're doing here; maybe we can't change certain things," but Barry 2 thinks he still can, so we get a montage of Zod winning again and again in the speedforce bubble world. That part was one of the few I liked, probably because it cements the answer to "why did Superman have to kill Zod" arguments and is kind of funny. Then Barry 1 sees in evidence why he has to do what he has to do and explains it to Flash 2 and then future Flash 2 comes and talks and so on. The "Barry tries everything and nothing at all works because Zod is too much without Superman" is kind of important to that and shouldn't be left out. I think it's a silly message but it is there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 12:51
|
|
|
Pirate Jet posted:Nah, this still isn’t worse than Wonder Woman 1984. It's better than possibly 1/3 of their output. Better than Shazam 2, WW1984, probably whichever Suicide Squad you think is worse, and whichever other couple you personally didn't like. It's like one of the middling XMen films with much worse effects.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 12:54
|
|
Darko posted:You're kind of underplaying what happens here. The movie is goofy, but it's not quite this truncated and you're leaving out important stuff as to why he makes the decision. It doesn't really feel like they tried much of anything though. The first time they go back in time, Barry tells Batman not to blow up the big ship, then watches him get hosed up by the big guy before helping Young Barry kamehameha him leading Young Barry to get shrapnel in the arm which is what lets him kill what's her face. He doesn't really make an effort to help batman until he's dead. Like yeah the narrative is like "without superman they literally can't win" but aside from that just being really goofy, Barry literally just gives the gently caress up without doing much of anything. He knocks out some mooks, watches batman die, goes back in time, tells batman not to die, then watches batman die again, helps blow up big guy, then concludes it's impossible to help anyone. He was already arguing with Young Barry that this timeline was doomed before he started going on that montage of showing his many attempts. The only times the two flashes work together to do anything is knock out some mooks, and to zap that one guy. And both those things worked pretty well. Maybe they could like, save batman together. But the timeline's doomed without superman. Sure was cool to watch Supergirl for like, five minutes I guess.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:00
|
|
|
Pirate Jet posted:
No Way home does this too, since Peter's whole thing is fixing the villains instead of returning them and letting them die like Doctor Strange wants. Having The Flash justify killing Zod is weird because it would make a lot of sense especially with James Gunn launching a revised dceu to have his new superman show up and solve without killing, or even barry solving things without murder to change things up since it his movie.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:03
|
|
|
Is there an argument given why Barry's mum dying is essential for the survival of superman?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:14
|
|
Fangz posted:Is there an argument given why Barry's mum dying is essential for the survival of superman? By the movie's own logic as presented by batman: when you change events you make a whole new timeline where things are different, past and present, with that point as like an axis or some poo poo. Which doesn't really make sense with events later on but whatever. Saving his mom made it so Zod found Superman's pod and murdered a baby. But also made it so Superman wasn't the baby they put the vital kryptonian juice in.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:20
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Is there an argument given why Barry's mum dying is essential for the survival of superman? The movie makes the butterfly effect work both ways, so when you go back in time and change major events, it basically meges timelines and messes up everything as opposed to having a butterfly effect from that point on. It makes little sense but whatever, that's the rules it goes by. Barry saving his mom is a big enough change that it basically merges the Snyderverse with the Burton-verse, where Kal El never landed on earth as a child, and his cousin, who was sent here to protect him, lands later than he would have came like she always does and gets captured by the Russians. It also means Wonder Woman didn't do her thing, Batman started earlier and cleaned up Gotham and retired for other reasons, Victor never got into an accident and Aquaman doesn't exist. So yeah, his time traveling shenanigans don't work like they should and instead kind of punt him into completely different universes that are all changed from the start for whatever reason.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:23
|
|
|
I have not seen the movie, but usually with this type of time travel the idea is that changing the past create a new self consistent timeline. All the events, before and after the change, adapt to the change, so that even without the enforced change by the time traveler the new sequence is the natural timeline.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:27
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:By the movie's own logic as presented by batman: when you change events you make a whole new timeline where things are different, past and present, with that point as like an axis or some poo poo. Which doesn't really make sense with events later on but whatever. Saving his mom made it so Zod found Superman's pod and murdered a baby. But also made it so Superman wasn't the baby they put the vital kryptonian juice in. But like, if they can travel back in time and make it so events go differently and Batman doesn't die at a specific time, they could also just go back in time and save Superman. Or maybe he could just save his mom some slightly different way and it'll result in a something else being different that doesn't have such disastrous consequences. Since at the end they still change time but Zod is prevented, why can't Barry just go back in time and save his mom by, I dunno, saying he doesn't want tomatoes that night, and see if the resulting changes are desirable or not. Furthermore, if he's just being punted into different, pre-existing universes, what's the moral angle to this at all? He's not saving the world from Zod by "fixing time", he's just abandoning one Earth for another one. Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jun 16, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:27
|
|
Fangz posted:But like, if they can travel back in time and make it so events go differently and Batman doesn't die at a specific time, they could also just go back in time and save Superman. Or maybe he could just save his mom some slightly different way and it'll result in a something else being different that doesn't have such disastrous consequences. Since at the end they still change time but Zod is prevented, why can't Barry just go back in time and save his mom by, I dunno, saying he doesn't want tomatoes that night, and see if the resulting changes are desirable or not.  they change time multiple times during the final battle and nothing seems to actually change so the whole "things change" only happen like twice and seems to be purely dictated by where a singular can of diced tomatoes wind up.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:32
|
|
|
I guess the tomatoes are magic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:33
|
|
|
Fangz posted:But like, if they can travel back in time and make it so events go differently and Batman doesn't die at a specific time, they could also just go back in time and save Superman. Or maybe he could just save his mom some slightly different way and it'll result in a something else being different that doesn't have such disastrous consequences. Since at the end they still change time but Zod is prevented, why can't Barry just go back in time and save his mom by, I dunno, saying he doesn't want tomatoes that night, and see if the resulting changes are desirable or not. There's no way for him to try and put Kal El on earth. Barry doesn't have the powerset to go into deep space. Zod is the giant issue; without Superman there to inspire the rest of the planet and then break Zods neck, that earth is completely destroyed. There's just no one around that can stop Zod and Faora and Nam Ek and all of the rest of the Kryptonians without the general making Faora horny and distracting her, destroying the army, and Superman destroying the world engine and killing Zod. It's all messed up from the jump. No Kryptonian to deliver, Zod just kills the higher ups when they meet in the desert, so Faora has nobody to be infatuated with (and the forces don't split at all) and the army fights the Kryptonians then and there with the World engines still being sent out and destroying Metropolis. Flash keeps thinking he can "fix time" until the very end of the movie. He learns about the spaghetti theory from Batman 2, and basically wants to help that world before he leaves for his own. I guess theres part of the plot you're missing since nobody said it in the context of this. Flash wanted to go back to his own time after making the mom change. However when running back, he gets punted into 18 year old Flash in the merged timeline by dark Flash 2. He thinks he's in Back to the Future time travel, literally, and wants to make sure Flash 2 gets his powers to not mess things up before leaving and inadvertently loses his in doing that. The whole movie, he's basically trying to get back to the "present" but loses his powers, so he can't, and thats when he sees the Kryptonians are here and tries to stop them. THEN when he realizes he can't, he sees its a doomed timeline and is like...yeah, I'm gonna undo saving my mom since this is just screwed. So he Teen Titans Go To The Movies and goes back and "kills" her.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:44
|
|
|
All the best superhero movies wrap up with the hero giving up and loving off.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:47
|
|
|
It all sounds like a glorious mess and I'll definitely be getting drunk and watching it when it comes out on VOD.
Adrianics fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jun 16, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 13:59
|
|
|
I’m seeing this nonsense today. Cannot wait lmfao. No way that cavil pic is real. Gonna refuse to believe it so I can laugh my rear end off when I see it
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 14:08
|
|
|
Darko posted:There's no way for him to try and put Kal El on earth. Barry doesn't have the powerset to go into deep space. It doesn't matter though, because a can of tomatoes managed to get Kal El *off Earth*. He could just roll the dice on the RNG until Superman's back or Zod explodes in transit or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 14:18
|
|
|
Did I miss an explanation for why how two Barrys can coexist at the same time, but later, we don't get an infinite amount of Barrys trying to fight Zod when they both time travel? I recall Barry prime saying "we shouldn't be able to exist at the same time" but I don't recall if that was explained further.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 14:18
|
|
|
roffels posted:Did I miss an explanation for why No, and time travel movies often mess that up. The only possible explanation is jumping into a parallel verse where they just happen to be elsewhere. Bill and Ted 1/2 are still the best examples of getting its own time travel logic correct throughout.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 14:35
|
|
roffels posted:Did I miss an explanation for why There are, very briefly, four barrys and no the movie does not address this in any way.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 14:35
|
|
|
This is all stupid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 14:51
|
|
|
If only there was some substance that could harm Zod. Oh well, guess your world is doomedbye
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 15:00
|
|
|
In which timeline is this movie any good?
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 15:35
|
|
|
This movie is a canon event
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 15:48
|
|
|
flash puts a baby in a microwave
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 15:49
|
|
|
Farg posted:flash puts a baby in a microwave That was them just so happening to be filming Ezra Miller on break
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 16:09
|
|
|
Pirate Jet posted:We also need to start talking about how multiverse movies don't understand how multiverse theory works (there are no "fixed points" that happen in every timeline) and how the moral of a lot of them lately seems to be "you have to uphold the status quo because every alternative is worse." (Yes, I know the new Spider-Man seems to be directly challenging that.) This reminds me how Bioshock Infinite famously showed they didn't understand what the word "Infinite" means
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 16:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 19:20 |
|
|
Necrothatcher posted:All the best superhero movies wrap up with the hero giving up and loving off. Sadly, they cut out the shots of Jonathan Kent inexplicably in the desert, standing on the sidelines, moving his fists up and down while chanting, "DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!"
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2023 16:20
|
|
