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GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good

Sataere posted:

I suck at doing notation if the numbers and letters aren't there, but I feel the first move is advancing the pawn to put King in check. Problem is I don't really know where the king is moving. I just know I kind of want to push him back and find a way to bring my rook to the second file and pin his king.

I assume he'll move his king back to the second file because if he doesn't, I'm advancing my pawn to put him in check again and taking his rook.

If he moves back on the second file, my next move is to put him in check and force him into the corner. From here, I'm moving my knight over to the third file to cover my pawn when I advance him on the next move for the check fork to take his rook.

I'm really having trouble seeing this solution to finish the game, but I can see I have the superior position, even if I'm down a rook. I am pretty confident this is not the best solution. :v:


so you kind of have elements of it, but there are a few points in your lines you may want to consider (also we're seeing this from black's perspective so the first file is the h file, furthest rank is 1st rank)

30...f3+ (this is a good candidate move, it's forcing and it advances our only real asset in the position, our connected passed pawns; white only has two moves so lets consider them both) 31. kh1 g2+ 32. kg2 (white knows he's forked and wants to capture the promoted pawn) gxf1=q 33. kxf1

at the end of this black is up a pawn and potentially able to win a second, however black's pawn structure is demolished, and a knight versus a bishop on an open board is going to see the knight struggle. what's the final move that secures black a true winning advantage?

now let's consider the other line where you suggested 31. kg1 f2+ to force 32. kh1, but what if 32. kg2 or worse 32.Bxf2! gxf2+ 33. kxf2 and white is still up the exchange and in a solid position. so the best follow up is probably bringing black's knight more directly into the fray. 31. kg1 nf4 threatens both the pawn on h3 and a check on e2 both of which force the king into the corner

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Redmark
Dec 11, 2012

This one's for you, Morph.
-Evo 2013
Another tricky position which I failed to convert:

Black to move. I was (as always) low on time so I played Re4+ without having any follow-up plan. Turns out that position is actually 0.0 somehow, and I ended up flagging.

Elyv
Jun 14, 2013



the best thing I see after a couple minutes is 1...Qe4+ 2. Qxe4 Rxe4+ 3. Kd2 Rxe1 4. Rxe1 Rxh2 and Black is up a passed pawn that seems kind of hard to stop, but I would not be surprised if there's something better

tanglewood1420
Oct 28, 2010

The importance of this mission cannot be overemphasized
My first thought is the white queen is the one getting in the way of attacking the king, so g6 is fairly obvious here to me. The queen doesn't have many good squares to go with the rooks being so dominant either, so g6 punts it far away from the defence. Then you play Re4+.

rollick
Mar 20, 2009
There was a discussion a few weeks back on rapid ratings vs blitz, and why rapid tends to be higher.

One idea was that having more time to think means you play better, and therefore have a better rating.

I just saw that Lichess lets you compare your accuracy between ratings, which I think shows that this isn't the case (at least for me).

My rapid rating is 150-200 points above my blitz, and I actually play slightly worse:



You can look at your own stats at https://lichess.org/insights/username

Meadowhill
Jan 5, 2015

rollick posted:

There was a discussion a few weeks back on rapid ratings vs blitz, and why rapid tends to be higher.

One idea was that having more time to think means you play better, and therefore have a better rating.

I just saw that Lichess lets you compare your accuracy between ratings, which I think shows that this isn't the case (at least for me).

My rapid rating is 150-200 points above my blitz, and I actually play slightly worse:



You can look at your own stats at https://lichess.org/insights/username

I think the within time controls samples probably differ in player pool, used openings and seconds-per-move used so it's hard to make direct comparisons. You might be doing better strategically and positionally against opponents of your rating but the computer says no, and the computer denies us all.

EDIT: The amount of games probably differs too, and the average elo on blitz is probably more accurate because of it but again, difficult to compare.

Sataere
Jul 20, 2005


Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me



tanglewood1420 posted:

My first thought is the white queen is the one getting in the way of attacking the king, so g6 is fairly obvious here to me. The queen doesn't have many good squares to go with the rooks being so dominant either, so g6 punts it far away from the defence. Then you play Re4+.

Yeah, g6 is the move there. Not sure I would have noticed it in-game though because I always forget pawns can attack in end game situations.

EDIT: if he moves his queen anywhere but e5, he's hosed

Sataere fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jun 5, 2023

Redmark
Dec 11, 2012

This one's for you, Morph.
-Evo 2013

Sataere posted:

Yeah, g6 is the move there. Not sure I would have noticed it in-game though because I always forget pawns can attack in end game situations.

EDIT: if he moves his queen anywhere but e5, he's hosed

g6 is indeed the move, but Qe5 loses immediately to ...Re4.
The more difficult part to evaluate is if White plays something like Qb5. Looking through the lines winning material takes some moves and I wouldn't be able to calculate it from the starting position. An example line would be ...g6, Qb5 Rh5, Qd3 Re4+, Kd1 Rxe1+, Kxe1 Re5+ and then White doesn't have good moves.

Of course you don't need to see all that ahead of time, but it's tempting to think that there would be a faster win.

Sataere
Jul 20, 2005


Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me



Redmark posted:

g6 is indeed the move, but Qe5 loses immediately to ...Re4.
The more difficult part to evaluate is if White plays something like Qb5. Looking through the lines winning material takes some moves and I wouldn't be able to calculate it from the starting position. An example line would be ...g6, Qb5 Rh5, Qd3 Re4+, Kd1 Rxe1+, Kxe1 Re5+ and then White doesn't have good moves.

Of course you don't need to see all that ahead of time, but it's tempting to think that there would be a faster win.

Re4 is happening regardless once you move g6. It is inevitable unless he sacrifices his queen. Qe5 prevents the follow up move of Qxf2 and basically pinning the king back in a mating net. If queen can move to f2, game is over.

Sataere fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Jun 6, 2023

Redmark
Dec 11, 2012

This one's for you, Morph.
-Evo 2013

Sataere posted:

Re4 is happening regardless once you move g6. It is inevitable unless he sacrifices his queen. Qe5 prevents the follow up move of Qxf2 and basically pinning the king back in a mating net. If queen can move to f2, game is over.

It seems like this would go like Qb5 Re4+, Kd2 Qxf2+, Re2 and I don't see the mating net, though Black can still trade down into a winning endgame.

Sataere
Jul 20, 2005


Step 1: Start fight
Step 2: Attack straw man
Step 3: REPEAT

Do not engage with me



Redmark posted:

It seems like this would go like Qb5 Re4+, Kd2 Qxf2+, Re2 and I don't see the mating net, though Black can still trade down into a winning endgame.

Once queen goes to f2, he can only move his King back to the 1 row and he can either go to d1 or c1. Either way, he's blocking off the other rooks protection and I'm bringing the rook to e1 and it is mate.

tanglewood1420
Oct 28, 2010

The importance of this mission cannot be overemphasized

Redmark posted:

It seems like this would go like Qb5 Re4+, Kd2 Qxf2+, Re2 and I don't see the mating net, though Black can still trade down into a winning endgame.

In your position after Qxf2+, Re2 just walks into Qxe2+ as the rook is double attacked. The king needs to retreat to the back rank rather than blocking with the rook.

I think the white Queen needs to go to c5 to keep an eye on f2 otherwise white is in deep doodoo. c5 is still pretty passive though and Black should win very comfortably as long as you stay patient and don't trade rooks (which would dilute your immediate attack).

Looking at it again, I think g6 2. Qc5 Qe4+ is the correct continuation for black as it enables you to play Rd3+ or Qd3+ depending on which way the white king runs.

tanglewood1420 fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Jun 6, 2023

Carbolic
Apr 19, 2007

This song is about how America chews the working man up and spits him in the dirt to die
So I've been tracking my classical games in SCID for the last few years.

Across 47 tournament games (22 white, 25 black) my performance rating as black is 74 points higher than as white. As black I've gone +12, =4, -9 and as white I've gone +7, =5, -10, and the average rating of my opponents when I'm white is actually a few points lower than my opponents as black during this time frame. I've been punching above my rating as black and below it as white.

So... what can I do with this knowledge? About the only thing I can think of is to look at switching my opening repertoire as white. I've played d4 since I was a kid, maybe it's time to experiment? Does anyone have any other ideas?

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

Just signed up for a local OTB tournament/event; pretty excited to actually play IRL chess competitively for the first time! Not too many players though...I know the city I'm in isn't the biggest in the state, but still I was expecting at least 10-15 ppl.

GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good
just beat a guy in a 15/10 game, he finished with 19:28 on the clock. if you want to play blitz, why don't you just play blitz?

GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good
oof that feeling you get when you go to analyze a game you feel good about your positional play and then you realize instead of fussing about with dark square weaknesses there was a basic winning tactic on the other side of the board you completely missed

Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer
I do that a lot with ignoring tactics in favor of opening principles. Like this guy today



who played a weird Queen move in the Scandi, so I just developed naturally not realizing until after that he hung his queen to Bb5 for like, 10 consecutive moves.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

just beat a guy in a 15/10 game, he finished with 19:28 on the clock. if you want to play blitz, why don't you just play blitz?

On the other side: yeah you've got 14 minutes on the clock dude but you really don't need to spend a full minute deciding between e5 and Nc6 as your second move

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb

Arrhythmia posted:

On the other side: yeah you've got 14 minutes on the clock dude but you really don't need to spend a full minute deciding between e5 and Nc6 as your second move

Its my time :colbert:

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Huxley posted:

I do that a lot with ignoring tactics in favor of opening principles. Like this guy today



who played a weird Queen move in the Scandi,

…the opening principle there is that 3. … Qc6??? in the Scandi gets at least 3 question marks and should be viciously punished.

Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer

ulmont posted:

…the opening principle there is that 3. … Qc6??? in the Scandi gets at least 3 question marks and should be viciously punished.

Stern agree. In my very limited defense, it was a bullet game and I am primarily a d4 player, but I was trying to get Scotch reps in just to test it out.

That said: checks, captures, and attacks. I know enough e4 to know the Queen can go d8, d6, a5, and e6+ (in rough order of sensibility), and anything else should have set off alarm bells.

Huxley fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jun 17, 2023

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
Why do you think d8 is better than d6? With d8, it seems like the end result of the first three moves then is to just let white develop two pieces before you instead of one.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Arrhythmia posted:

Why do you think d8 is better than d6?

While the engines will tell you a5 is the best, masters play d8 more per the lichess opening database.

…the differences between those 4 moves is about 0.3 pawns if you believe lichess on my phone.

Arrhythmia posted:

With d8, it seems like the end result of the first three moves then is to just let white develop two pieces before you instead of one.

White has one more developed piece but a more vulnerable king and black has a half open file for the queen, but yes in general I think d8 is sub par to d6 for letting the queen move even if it can be threatened.

Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer
I still haven't landed on a black response to e4 I'm happy with, and John Bartholomew's free chessable course on the scandi said d8 was better. If I remember his reasoning, there's a popular line for white that forces the queen d6-d8 anyway, so he says save the tempo and just park it on turn 3.

I'm settled finally on playing d4 c4 with white, and KID against d4, but nothing against e4 feels right yet.

Scandi felt kind of silly. I somehow always find a way to hang a pawn in the Caro, and just get overwhelmed every game. E5 I feel like lets white call their own shots too much. I've scored well with the dragon Sicilian, but it was never comfortable. I'm getting wins but am not ever sure how.

I keep coming back to the French, which isn't super popular but at least has some swashbuckle to it. The only issue is down here in the 1ks, white mostly premoves e4 Nf3 then transposes into the exchange.

And of course, none of this matters much when we're both missing tactics as obvious as Bb5. But openings are fun to think about and easier to study.

Huxley fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 17, 2023

greatZebu
Aug 29, 2004

Huxley posted:

I keep coming back to the French, which isn't super popular but at least has some swashbuckle to it. The only issue is down here in the 1ks, white mostly premoves e4 Nf3 then transposes into the exchange.

Seems like a good argument to play it. If white’s going to unblock your bishop and give you an equal game, why not take it? It’s not like you’re going to struggle to create winning chances.

tanglewood1420
Oct 28, 2010

The importance of this mission cannot be overemphasized
Started playing blitz chess online after a long break, only really played 15 minute rapid online or casual no clock games for the last year plus.

And just now got my first ever smothered mate in a game. :unsmith: Sporting of my opponent to play on and see it on the board.

https://lichess.org/BmwcKwKV/black

Please ignore the obvious missed Qxe3+ which is crushing earlier in the game, I am still so much worse at 5 min than 15 min. I feel like I play faster without properly processing the position even when I don't have too at the blitz time controls because I feel like I have less time than I do.

tanglewood1420 fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Jun 17, 2023

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

greatZebu posted:

Seems like a good argument to play it. If white’s going to unblock your bishop and give you an equal game, why not take it? It’s not like you’re going to struggle to create winning chances.

Because the French exchange is boring.

Huxley posted:

I keep coming back to the French, which isn't super popular but at least has some swashbuckle to it. The only issue is down here in the 1ks, white mostly premoves e4 Nf3 then transposes into the exchange.

Try the French Sicilian, 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6, and see how it goes. I found I ended up with more interesting French-ish positions that way, so now it's my favorite.

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

Huxley posted:

I still haven't landed on a black response to e4 I'm happy with, and John Bartholomew's free chessable course on the scandi said d8 was better. If I remember his reasoning, there's a popular line for white that forces the queen d6-d8 anyway, so he says save the tempo and just park it on turn 3.

I'm settled finally on playing d4 c4 with white, and KID against d4, but nothing against e4 feels right yet.

Scandi felt kind of silly. I somehow always find a way to hang a pawn in the Caro, and just get overwhelmed every game. E5 I feel like lets white call their own shots too much. I've scored well with the dragon Sicilian, but it was never comfortable. I'm getting wins but am not ever sure how.

I keep coming back to the French, which isn't super popular but at least has some swashbuckle to it. The only issue is down here in the 1ks, white mostly premoves e4 Nf3 then transposes into the exchange.

And of course, none of this matters much when we're both missing tactics as obvious as Bb5. But openings are fun to think about and easier to study.

If you're already playing the KID you could try the Pirc - though there are some differences (i.e. in the Pirc white's C-pawn is usually blocked by the queenside knight vs KID where you have the e-d-c pawns all on e4/d4/c4). I'm actually in the opposite boat; I have my Pirc down pretty well but working on how the KID plays differently. You do have people talking down on it; but honestly if it's fun and not something crazy like 1...h5 then just roll with it.

Edit: Your game actually reminded me of this recent one of mine where after I picked up their queen for free in a three-way fork with a knight (king+, queen, and rook) they just quit. Only annoying thing is that I missed the tactic earlier on in the game, but I just use that to remind myself to be more aware of such tactics on c7/c2.

https://lichess.org/PUfwypdcwMIC

BadOptics fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jun 17, 2023

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011
1. How do I convince myself to actually review my losses?

2. How do I prevent myself from just jacking myself off over my tactical genius when I review my wins?

Redmark
Dec 11, 2012

This one's for you, Morph.
-Evo 2013
Simply review every game (doesn't have to be super in depth, none of us are pros). If you feel like you can't be bothered, that's a signal to play fewer games.
For the second question, at least on lichess I just press the "learn from your mistakes" button. If there weren't any mistakes, press the "inaccuracies" button. If there weren't any inaccuracies, lol get rekt onto next (or do the same for the opponent's mistakes).

Huxley
Oct 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer
If only reviewing your wins to feel good while immediately pretending your losses didn't happen is how you enjoy the game, I say go for it, honestly.

The person who "won" the league I was just placed in on chess.com played 250 10-minute games over the span of 7 days at 300 rapid elo. I sometimes wonder if he is enjoying the game on a level I will simply never achieve. That dude cranked out who knows how many games while I wondered if I had studied enough yet to justify playing 1. e4.

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

I find reviewing losses as tough, but far more important than wins as there was an obvious negative outcome to my play. Though at my rating (almost 1200) my wins are sometimes by luck so reviewing them can be embarrassing as well lol.

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb
The best games of chess I've ever played are when I wake up, try to turn off my alarm, but the lichess app is open, and I accidentally bump the 1+0 button, but out of pride I try to win even though I'm still struggling to remember my name.

https://lichess.org/z2yEIt6h

Olothreutes
Mar 31, 2007

I usually try to analyze the game and find out exactly where I went from being ok to totally losing. Usually it's move 5.

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

BadOptics posted:

I find reviewing losses as tough, but far more important than wins as there was an obvious negative outcome to my play. Though at my rating (almost 1200) my wins are sometimes by luck so reviewing them can be embarrassing as well lol.

Lol I get that. Felt really good about a recent win, felt like I found some good tactics and followed principles well, and then I load it into chess.com which screams at me for missing a mating sequence for 20 moves in a row

GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good
chess.com apparently is by default setup to send a helpful little email to let you know that someone is sending you harassing messages on the site. what a lovely feature

Arrhythmia
Jul 22, 2011

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

chess.com apparently is by default setup to send a helpful little email to let you know that someone is sending you harassing messages on the site. what a lovely feature

Lol. "check it out. look how salty this dude got when you beat him. f6 huh?"

KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

Let's go droogs
So I started playing chess because many of my students do and it's fun to play against them.

As a basic "I played a few games against my dad when I was 8" player, after a few weeks of playing I've stabilised at ~700 elo on rapid 10 on Chess.com. I don't want to go super deep into try hard land, but I'd like to slowly improve over the next year. Should I spend some time learning one general white opening and one or two black openings or should I just keep going for the general put poo poo in the center and don't hang piece approach?

Also I hate how terrible I am at end game stuff. I'm elite level at throwing games that were already won.

BadOptics
Sep 11, 2012

KingColliwog posted:

So I started playing chess because many of my students do and it's fun to play against them.

As a basic "I played a few games against my dad when I was 8" player, after a few weeks of playing I've stabilised at ~700 elo on rapid 10 on Chess.com. I don't want to go super deep into try hard land, but I'd like to slowly improve over the next year. Should I spend some time learning one general white opening and one or two black openings or should I just keep going for the general put poo poo in the center and don't hang piece approach?

Also I hate how terrible I am at end game stuff. I'm elite level at throwing games that were already won.

Probably better to learn some chess principles/tactics; black you could kinda limit how much you need to know but white you pretty much have to be ready for anything. If you have the principles down then you can better understand openings once you start learning them. Maybe choose one or two that lead to fun games for you, but don't spend all your time on them.

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grah
Jul 26, 2007
brainsss
Opening theory isn't as important as opening principles at that level. You can learn an opening if you like of course, but doing things like claiming control of the center, developing your minor pieces (knights and bishops) first, and getting your king to safety should be your focus. If someone wants to play a handful of very aggressive traps (which you'll see a ton of if you play on chess.com) they mostly have simple refutations based around seeing the one move threat and defending it.

Endgames tend to be more about calculation and the small amount of material left on the board means precision is more important than earlier in the game. If you can do basic mating patterns like rook and King or Queen and King (without stalemating your opponent by accident) that's a good start.

After that there are some principles like that it's typically good to centralize pieces (though not say, at the expense of letting an enemy pawn promote or something), bringing your king into the position as an attacking piece, 'the square' and 'the opposition'.

]https://www.chessprogramming.org/Rule_of_the_Square Has a good pictorial explanation of "the square" which is just a shorthand way of calculating if you can catch a pawn or not before it promotes.

Opposition is a little more nuanced but the basic idea is that if your king is staring directly at the opponents king, so they control the same 3 squares between them, whoever's turn it is can't step forward into that space, and so has to give way. So you want that setup to fall on your opponent's turn in most endgame situations, so you can bring your king to control the important squares, usually a pawn's path to promotion.

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