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MrMojok posted:Having said all that, is there serious talk about a reboot now, and someone is going to do it all over again? Nah I don’t think so. There’s “user-added context” on that tweet saying the headline is super misleading, and that reboots aren’t mentioned at all.
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Jun 16, 2023 07:15
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My biggest gripe with the films is the omission of the Scouring of the Shire. Yes, it makes the ending longer. Yes, it's not a simple, tidy ending. Yes, it focuses on the hobbits. That's sort of the point.
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Jun 16, 2023 07:44
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the hobbits get magical bonuses against shadow, and that enabled gaffer to oppose the nazgul on weathertop the nazguls fled because frodo exorcised them with holy words and faith
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Jun 16, 2023 08:09
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You could come up with an excuse but if Arwen and her brothers are at Helm's Deep it's kind of weird, narratively, for them to not accompany Aragorn & co from then on. Unless you use them to set up the payoff with the Grey Company.
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Jun 16, 2023 08:12
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The Nazgûl in the fellowship make sense as an irreplaceable, vulnerable, but very powerful resource that Sauron is carefully conserving. It would be far from impossible for them to be trapped and destroyed by the elves when they’re so far from Mordor, which would be a major loss for Sauron. While their retreat at weathertop is weird, their generally conservative strategy makes sense if you think they’re Sauron’s only shot at stopping the ring from getting so someone who can use it. They’re not even strong enough to attack Bree openly. By Return of the King, the Nazgûl overwhelm Minas Tirith’s defenses in a couple of days. It’s clear that it was specifically their magical despair that caused the city to not defend itself. Even the gates are broken as much by the witch king’s magic as by the magical battering ram forged specifically to break the gates. The black breath is so powerful it’s lethal for a lot of people to even be generally within sight of them for protracted periods. They definitely feel like a threat in the books, but not in a way that could be visually translated to the screen.
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Jun 16, 2023 08:20
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Heithinn Grasida posted:The Nazgûl in the fellowship make sense as an irreplaceable, vulnerable, but very powerful resource that Sauron is carefully conserving. It would be far from impossible for them to be trapped and destroyed by the elves when they’re so far from Mordor, which would be a major loss for Sauron. While their retreat at weathertop is weird, their generally conservative strategy makes sense if you think they’re Sauron’s only shot at stopping the ring from getting so someone who can use it. They’re not even strong enough to attack Bree openly. It's really not weird. They didn't expect to get resisted and they achieved their objective which was to wound the ring bearer with the wraith blade. As far as The Witch King knows, Frodo will succumb to that wound long before he gets somewhere safe. They don't realize how remarkably resistant Hobbits are to fading. A man would have been overcome quickly. Also, if I'm not mistaken it's mentioned that their power waxes as Sauron's does. I think by the time of the siege of Minas Tirith the Witch King and the rest of the nine are more powerful than they were during Fellowship. And they'd be more powerful still if Sauron actually got the ring back. And while fear is their main weapon (which I think is cool af tbh. Much more interesting than them being unbeatable warriors or whatever) that fear is also more potent when the people they're trying to scare actually know what they are. The Gaffer and most of the other Hobbits that interact with them have no clue just how dangerous they are, so they aren't as scared as they might otherwise be. And that's a big part of why Gildor and Aragorn won't even tell Frodo what they are because while he realizes they're bad news he'd be completely terrified if he recognized just how terrible they are.
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Jun 16, 2023 09:53
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https://twitter.com/ralphbakshi/status/1669555884585021442?t=ietT82FylPOiz9hcsHSS3w&s=19
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Jun 16, 2023 13:04
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I have zero doubts Bakshi is a horndog but lol if he is anywhere close to the biggest one in animation. Gotta disagree with Ropekid on this one.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 13:06
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Gandalf or Aragorn says straight out in the book the 9 would be superheros if Sauron got the ring back Who knows how much they know tho.
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Jun 16, 2023 13:07
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Arc Hammer posted:I have zero doubts Bakshi is a horndog but lol if he is anywhere close to the biggest one in animation. Gotta disagree with Ropekid on this one. https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/1669591467206283264
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Jun 16, 2023 13:44
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Having Arwen travel to fight at Helm's Deep would have been just as bad a call as having Aragorn fight Sauron sword-to-sword at the Black Gate. Thank goodness both got cut.
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Jun 16, 2023 13:45
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I want any new Lotr film to be sparser, spacier, and lean more into the smallness of characters in the world, with the narrative perspective pulled tighter to the hobbits wherever possible, downplaying the action-adventure wherever possible so that when it pops it really pops. Really, as I've aged I've found the providential themes of the text more interesting than the sword and sorcery stuff. And 40 minutes of Tom Bombadil
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Jun 16, 2023 14:16
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Make it more of an anthology of slow contemplative atmospheric scenes, long landscape shots, and digressions to tell poetically recited stories like Beren and Lúthien or Eärendil, or to lecture about language
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Jun 16, 2023 14:27
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Data Graham posted:Make it more of an anthology of slow contemplative atmospheric scenes, long landscape shots, and digressions to tell poetically recited stories like Beren and Lúthien or Eärendil, or to lecture about language Sauronnisqatsi
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Jun 16, 2023 14:44
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Data Graham posted:Make it more of an anthology of slow contemplative atmospheric scenes, long landscape shots, and digressions to tell poetically recited stories like Beren and Lúthien or Eärendil, or to lecture about language The Lord of the Rings: Appendix D: Calendars is coming soon to a theater near you.
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Jun 16, 2023 14:48
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webmeister posted:Sauronnisqatsi  that would own
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Jun 16, 2023 14:48
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me reading book 1 in high school: this is kind of boring, do something me rereading book 1 in my 30s: this loving rules
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Jun 16, 2023 15:03
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I mean I won't kinkshame Josh Sawyer for liking what he likes.
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Jun 16, 2023 15:20
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Terrence malick guest directs the journey through the old forest
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Jun 16, 2023 18:12
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Does Ben Affleck direct the chapter with Ghân-buri-Ghân
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Jun 16, 2023 19:03
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The entire movie is from the pov of the pukel men
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Jun 16, 2023 19:05
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Pukélmon
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Jun 16, 2023 19:06
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Heithinn Grasida posted:The Nazgûl in the fellowship make sense as an irreplaceable, vulnerable, but very powerful resource that Sauron is carefully conserving. It would be far from impossible for them to be trapped and destroyed by the elves when they’re so far from Mordor, which would be a major loss for Sauron. While their retreat at weathertop is weird, their generally conservative strategy makes sense if you think they’re Sauron’s only shot at stopping the ring from getting so someone who can use it. They’re not even strong enough to attack Bree openly. Obviously it’s impossible to translate that kind of magical effect in film, but I do think Jackson does a good job in making the Nazgûl seem like extremely dangerous, despairing enemies. The fell beasts flying around picking Gondor soldiers up and dropping them on their compatriots was a really effective way, to me, of showing just how demoralizing going up against these guys are. The other side of it though, that Gandalf is combating their despair magic with his hope magic, doesn’t translate as well. Watching the series again recently, Gandalf really doesn’t exude the warmth and morale boosting in the second and third movies as much as I’d expect, pretty much when he comes back as Gandalf the White, McKellen kinda plays him as an rear end in a top hat. Except for the scene where he’s comforting Pippin and talking about death, which is very sweet.
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Jun 16, 2023 22:20
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An also-good film adaptation of The Lord of the Rings could have made many different decisions about how to translate certain really bookly elements to film.
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Jun 16, 2023 22:49
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SHISHKABOB posted:https://twitter.com/ralphbakshi/status/1669555884585021442?t=ietT82FylPOiz9hcsHSS3w&s=19 huh, i didn't know that he was still alive
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Jun 16, 2023 23:01
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Mike N Eich posted:Obviously it’s impossible to translate that kind of magical effect in film, but I do think Jackson does a good job in making the Nazgûl seem like extremely dangerous, despairing enemies. The fell beasts flying around picking Gondor soldiers up and dropping them on their compatriots was a really effective way, to me, of showing just how demoralizing going up against these guys are. These are the kinds of things that I think would be better served by pulling the narrative eye back to the hobbits, who are understanding things from the outsider's perspective. Pippin can witness (with the audience looking over his shoulder) the soldiers of Gondor standing strong in formation against a wall of orcs but then breaking into disorder when the Nazgul descend on them, and he can witness Gandalf bringing them together and holding them strong against the same effect later.
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Jun 16, 2023 23:14
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CommonShore posted:These are the kinds of things that I think would be better served by pulling the narrative eye back to the hobbits, who are understanding things from the outsider's perspective. Pippin can witness (with the audience looking over his shoulder) the soldiers of Gondor standing strong in formation against a wall of orcs but then breaking into disorder when the Nazgul descend on them, and he can witness Gandalf bringing them together and holding them strong against the same effect later. Much like how we'd seen several prior scenes of Frodo being tempted to put on the Ring, accompanied by ominous music and the evil Ring-voice whispering in his ear, followed by things going very badly; but then at the end of Fellowship, he stands there with it in his palm, contemplative, and the music swells hopefully as he closes his hand over it and puts it away and strides forth purposefully. It's basic filmmaking but it was done drat well
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Jun 16, 2023 23:17
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Mike N Eich posted:Except for the scene where he’s comforting Pippin and talking about death, which is very sweet. IIRC McKellan's commentary track says that he thinks that speech is a bunch of bullshit and the kind of thing leaders say to get men to die in war, but they paid him to say it so
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Jun 16, 2023 23:35
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Just a film of a hand turning the pages of the book slowly.
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Jun 16, 2023 23:42
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Omnomnomnivore posted:IIRC McKellan's commentary track says that he thinks that speech is a bunch of bullshit and the kind of thing leaders say to get men to die in war, but they paid him to say it so That's funny because I've used that scene as an illustrative example when teaching about how fantasy and SF are about basic human themes underneath the imaginative elements.
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Jun 16, 2023 23:43
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Omnomnomnivore posted:IIRC McKellan's commentary track says that he thinks that speech is a bunch of bullshit and the kind of thing leaders say to get men to die in war, but they paid him to say it so Lol McKellan like his best mate Patrick Stewart in apparently fundamentally misunderstanding his character and material Still does a drat fine job if it though
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Jun 17, 2023 00:24
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CommonShore posted:These are the kinds of things that I think would be better served by pulling the narrative eye back to the hobbits, who are understanding things from the outsider's perspective. Pippin can witness (with the audience looking over his shoulder) the soldiers of Gondor standing strong in formation against a wall of orcs but then breaking into disorder when the Nazgul descend on them, and he can witness Gandalf bringing them together and holding them strong against the same effect later. Sergei Bondarchuk's Pelennor
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Jun 17, 2023 01:06
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I'm pretty sure Jackson mentioned at one point that the Pelennor scene was inspired by Bondarchuk's films. You can definitely see elements of the Scots Grey's Charge from Waterloo in the Ride of the Rohirrim.
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Jun 17, 2023 01:42
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Omnomnomnivore posted:IIRC McKellan's commentary track says that he thinks that speech is a bunch of bullshit and the kind of thing leaders say to get men to die in war, but they paid him to say it so i can certainly see that perspective. Lord of the Rings is a highly hopeful work and some doesn't translate to our cynical age.
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Jun 17, 2023 02:02
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Eh, Gandalf the character in the book says it to give hope because he’s a magic angel thing in a world where that poo poo really exists… but in the real world that’s absolutely the kind of thing that leaders have said and still say to amp up young men to die for their causes. So I can understand feeling conflicted about the parallel.
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Jun 17, 2023 02:16
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Gandalf doesn’t say that in the book. It’s paraphrased from the narrative of Frodo’s dream in Tom’s house, which then comes true (in the same words) at the end of the book I don’t think it is very appropriate for Gandalf to say that at that juncture in the movie. Sure maybe that’s what he will see if his physical shape gets cut up by orcs. Pippin otoh will shortly be finding out if hell is real.
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Jun 17, 2023 02:20
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skasion posted:Gandalf doesn’t say that in the book. It’s paraphrased from the narrative of Frodo’s dream in Tom’s house, which then comes true (in the same words) at the end of the book The souls of Men (hobbits presumably included) do go to Valinor for a brief check-in with Mandos before moving on to whatever Eru has purposed for us. We know this because Beren refuses to move on until Luthien arrives in the Halls to persuade Mandos to resurrect them. Also, I'm pretty sure Pippin hasn't done anything bad enough to warrant time in hell.
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Jun 17, 2023 03:47
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Anshu posted:The souls of Men (hobbits presumably included) do go to Valinor for a brief check-in with Mandos before moving on to whatever Eru has purposed for us. We know this because Beren refuses to move on until Luthien arrives in the Halls to persuade Mandos to resurrect them. He stole from that farmer and stealing is a sin!
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Jun 17, 2023 04:06
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If Farmer Maggot forgives him for it does that absolve Pippin's sin? If Farmer Maggot was able to tell the Nazgul to screw off and he forgives Pippin his sins does that make Maggot Eru Illuvatar?
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Jun 17, 2023 04:25
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Bugblatter posted:He stole from that farmer and stealing is a sin! Okay, maybe he has to spend some time in hell as a purgatory-type deal, but it's not gonna be his ultimate destination.
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Jun 17, 2023 04:25
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