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Is a 12" Powermatic cabinet saw too much saw for a relatively new woodworker? Background: As a kid my family used to make benches, birdhouses, candle holders, shelves, stuff like that out of free fence wood we used to find in the paper for some extra cash. I loved it and now that I have some time and space I'd like to revisit stuff like that. I took my grandpa's Shopsmith when nobody else wanted it. I'm working on getting the accessories going but I am 100% not comfortable using the table saw equipment cause it's sketchy as gently caress and isn't in the best condition. But having the belt sander, disk sander, bandsaw, and shaper capabilities are all pretty cool. The day after I decided that I'm not comfortable using the sketchy rear end saw, my dad asked if I wanted his Powermatic Model 68, made in 1982. He bought it a few years ago and just doesn't have the room. It has the whole out feed table which I guess I don't need but I could maybe take it off and store it. I'm worried about a few things: 1) Replacement parts. I'm not sure if it has a riving knife/guard but I imagine I could buy an aftermarket one? I believe it has a Biesemeyer-style fence so that's a plus. 2) I'm not very tall, 5' 6", and I'm concerned about the amount of table ahead of the blade, I don't want to have to stretch to make cuts of its long. 3) Convenience? Like this is more personal but it would probably be easier (but kore expensive) to buy a job site saw or something if I know I won't have to rip whole sheets of plywood and poo poo. Would I be dumb to say no? If I got serious could this be a forever saw or now that we are 40 years down the line these tools have lost their luster?
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Jun 13, 2023 22:00
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| # ? May 17, 2024 00:35 |
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I think you should see it in person and see if you can either reach safely, or modify (probably lower) the table to make it safe. Also see if you can fit a riving knife, and if not, consider one of the aftermarket alternatives, like the MJ Splitter. I agree with not using the table saw on the old shop smith, those things look pretty terrifying. The real answer to whether you need or should get a table saw depends on the projects you're doing, though. Do you have use for one? They take up a lot of room so if you don't have an obvious need, you might be better off using that space for something else and getting by with a circular saw and/or a bandsaw for many of the cuts you'd do on a table saw. However if you do have regular use for one, a cabinet saw can be a versatile and solid centerpiece of a workshop.
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Jun 13, 2023 22:14
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The Powermatic Model 68 is an excellent saw, and if you feel it is to long to feed consider making a sled. The biggest issue will be if you actually have space for a saw that big and how you plan to get it into the space. Definitely see it in person, they are big. Some of those shipped with kickback guards and riving knives but not all so you may have to go aftermarket for that. That said, unless the Powermatic is currently on fire it will be safer than trying to use the table saw on the Shopsmith. The shop smith is a very neat and fun piece of kit but it doesn't do anything that well and the table saw on it is janky as hell. An equivalent saw of that Powermatic new would be on the order of $4 to 5k and even used they come in between $1 to 2k.
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Jun 13, 2023 23:16
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that saw will probably last forever. Doubt you'll be able to find a replacement riving knife easily anymore but the older powermatics I've seen have an extremely simple mount, like you could probably replicate one with an angle grinder and a 1/8" plate. I'd rry it out and see if you're comfortable with it, few shop tools are designed exclusively for NBA stars and jobsite saws and Shopsmiths are scary
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Jun 13, 2023 23:25
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Yeah that's a phenomenal saw. Is it too much saw? Maybe? But try it out. That was a fairly common saw, right up there with Unisaws so I doubt you would have too much trouble finding some sort of riving knife for it. Unfortunately current Powermatic bears little to no resemblance to Old Powermatic and really doesn't support their older machines worth poo poo. As far as other parts that might eventually need replacing, the bearings, belts and motor would be all and they should be pretty universal. That is a big saw with probably at least a 5hp motor on it and it may well need 3 phase power. Ask your dad-he may have already solved that issue somehow.
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Jun 13, 2023 23:40
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Don't those run on 3-phase 230V? If so, make sure you have somewhere to plug it in. edit: ^^^^^what he said.
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Jun 14, 2023 00:01
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I've got a big 5 hp Powermatic and it does take up like half my shop. I'm 5'5" and that's not a problem but it's really more saw than I need for what I usually build. I mostly build cabinets with sheet goods and use my track saw way more often to cut down panels. If I were building furniture and needed to cut four quarter oak with tight tolerances, I'd have more need for a saw this big. Btw, my saw is 2 phase, they're not always 3 phase. And I don't believe you can get a riving knife for a Powermatic but there are after market splitters. Sharkguard makes one: https://www.thesharkguard.com/products/ I keep meaning to get one.
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Jun 14, 2023 00:54
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Tora! Tora! Tora! posted:I've got a big 5 hp Powermatic and it does take up like half my shop. I'm 5'5" and that's not a problem but it's really more saw than I need for what I usually build. I mostly build cabinets with sheet goods and use my track saw way more often to cut down panels. If I were building furniture and needed to cut four quarter oak with tight tolerances, I'd have more need for a saw this big. I think you mean 240V single phase. There is no 2-phase. It's technically a splitter and not a riving knife but you can get the originals off of ebay if you look.
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Jun 14, 2023 01:04
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Target Practice posted:Is a 12" Powermatic cabinet saw too much saw for a relatively new woodworker? That's a loving Cadillac of table saws. Not a 10", mind you, and I've seen them with Single Phase 240v. It's pro cabinet shop level, heavy as a Cadillac, and as mentioned, it's already 40 years down the line and will outlast us all. But, yeah, it's a big saw. Being on the average-to-short side might be in your favor, as you'll never have your body weight over the blade, always behind it, if that makes sense. Idk if a 3-4"stepup platform in front of it would be good or bad, just spitballin as per your concerns of reach. Agree with everyone else saying avoid the shopsmith, get or rig you a riving tool.
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Jun 14, 2023 01:39
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I would feel much more comfortable using a stable cabinet saw like that one over a rickety job site saw. Might need to make some extra long push sticks, but maybe not. My table saw is of similar vintage and I expect to keep using it for many years.
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Jun 14, 2023 02:00
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The junk collector posted:I think you mean 240V single phase. There is no 2-phase. It's technically a splitter and not a riving knife but you can get the originals off of ebay if you look. Yeah, I'm pretty bad with the correct terminology. It's definitely not three phase tho' it has a funky plug and I put it on its own breaker when I wired the shop.
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Jun 14, 2023 02:16
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Thanks everyone! Yeah I have 220 service in the garage cause I'm 100% sure the landlord was a big woodworker. One benefit(?) is that the saw is on high-dollar polyurethane casters such that is is extremely movable. Which is good because there is no way thst I could put this saw in a usable spot and park both cars in the garage at the same time.
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Jun 14, 2023 03:10
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what kind of pervert uses their garage for cars
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Jun 14, 2023 18:39
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:what kind of pervert uses their garage for cars In theory, half of my garage is reserved for my car, In practice, all of that floor space is consistently taken up by a pile of scraps or things being rattle canned on the ground
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Jun 14, 2023 18:52
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:what kind of pervert uses their garage for cars Cars are pretty expensive and necessary, street parking in my neighborhood is a good way to get totalled by a drunk.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:56
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Stultus Maximus posted:Cars are pretty expensive and necessary, street parking in my neighborhood is a good way to get totalled by a drunk. What kind of woodworker lives in a place where you can't park in your own yard?
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Jun 14, 2023 19:28
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Mr. Mambold posted:What kind of woodworker lives in a place where you can't park in your own yard? Yard? Which one? My lot is 10x40 of them.
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Jun 14, 2023 19:56
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:what kind of pervert uses their garage for cars This pervert. I’ve got the shop cleaned up enough that it’s not too bad having it in here.  We need an outfeed table at work for our metal shear, so was keeping an eye for some cheap supplies. Seen a post for a huge whack of pine barn board offcuts and made a deal to take like 60 x 2’ strips and 30 x 4’ strips. Glued and screwed some short ones together to make legs. I guess he makes duck boxes and these are his constant offcuts, so he said he’d ring me in a few months with another pile of cheap project spares.  It doesn’t have to be silly strong or anything for light aluminum. It also has to be somewhat modular so I can bring 12’ of shop table into work in the back of a little work Tacoma. Making an 8’ main chunk and then a lap jointed 4’ addition to bring the next trip. 
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Jun 15, 2023 11:40
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My most difficult project commission yet: wife wants a 6' long straight edge for her to use squaring up quilts. Right now she just uses a yard stick that she bumps along the edge, but it'd be easier for her to just lay down a long stick and let it rip. Figure I'll find a nice straight grained board 2-3" wide, joint and one edge?
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Jun 17, 2023 12:30
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Juat throwing it out there: you can buy 6 foot levels that should be straight enough
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Jun 17, 2023 14:06
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HappyHippo posted:Juat throwing it out there: you can buy 6 foot levels that should be straight enough
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Jun 17, 2023 15:05
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I suspect this is more about making a nice wooden thing than about getting the best deal ona straight edge
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Jun 17, 2023 15:11
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NomNomNom posted:My most difficult project commission yet: wife wants a 6' long straight edge for her to use squaring up quilts. Right now she just uses a yard stick that she bumps along the edge, but it'd be easier for her to just lay down a long stick and let it rip. Rip some 1/2” Baltic birch. Or yeah, good straight grained wood, ideally quartersawn. If you want the thing to wind up 3” wide, start with a 4”+ wide board and joint one edge, rip a quarter inch off the other edge using the jointed edge against the fence, joint the edge you just cut and repeat a few times, ideally over the course of several days. That will help let any tension out of the board. Softwoods like yellow pine are also surprisingly stable once they are good and dry. Cherry is also exceptionally stable, especially if you can find a nice quartersawn bit and make the edge of your straightedge parallel to the grain. Sapele, mahogany, and straight grained walnut (good luck) would all be good choices too.
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Jun 17, 2023 15:48
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Straight grain, stable species, preferably quarter sawn, is the way to go for any wooden layout tool. I see no reason why a straight edge for quilting would be any different, only a bit trickier as 6 feet is a good chunk longer than those usually are. Get a few boards that look good, cut to length, joint an edge, rip close to finished with, and let them sit for a bit to see if there were any weird stresses from growing/drying in them, and pick the best and finish it. Edit: beaten like a cheap chisel. Just Winging It fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Jun 17, 2023 |
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Jun 17, 2023 15:52
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Lol yeah it's about making a nice wooden thing. She actually did use my level last time she needed it and didn't like it, the sides are too tall and it has rubber edge guards that protrude. Thanks for the thoughts all.
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Jun 17, 2023 16:31
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If you wanna guarantee a straight edge and make it look really fancy without much effort, maybe get a brass angle to run along the working edge. Hard maple is a great work surface material, straight and tight-grained and tough as hell; alternately sapele might be a nice one as it's also very straight and looks much, much more expensive than it really is, but if she's going to be running a cutter along it I'd recommend some kind of protection like that brass bar.
A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jun 17, 2023 |
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Jun 17, 2023 16:33
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I'd think she'd want something heavy enough to sit and hold the fabric, so 1/2" BB might be too flimsy. Honduran mahogany is the wood they make levels out of, if you're going for a single piece of primo wood. Also I'd make it with, say a 4" hump in the middle with a carrying cutout for her hand. And do be sure to sand thoroughly. No splinters, pls. Or you could just buy her a 4' aluminum drywall T-square and be done.
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Jun 17, 2023 16:44
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Sockington posted:We need an outfeed table at work for our metal shear,l. I may have overdone it again, but it should last. 1” thick plywood top.  Straight edge along the back of the table and a little marker/scribe tray  Little details were nice to have the bandsaw for cutting a bunch of these and firing them through versus clamping and using the jigsaw.  Some slight fuckups along the way but it’s always a learning thing. And yeah, she’s pretty stiff already. 
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Jun 17, 2023 17:42
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I bought an AliExpress Chinese style push plane. Anyone ever use one of these dealies? They're supposed to work well for sitting work benches, which I've been using lately. It has a brass insert for the front of the mouth which I've not come across before
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Jun 18, 2023 04:58
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No idea but this guy may have an idea or two https://youtu.be/tZkb_gTQgCU E: There's a reference in this video to someone else's video with potentially better info but I didn't have time to go down that rabbit hole. deimos fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jun 18, 2023 |
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Jun 18, 2023 05:58
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PokeJoe posted:I bought an AliExpress Chinese style push plane. Anyone ever use one of these dealies? They're supposed to work well for sitting work benches, which I've been using lately. It has a brass insert for the front of the mouth which I've not come across before I’ve always worried about those and thought about buying one to modify into a moulding plane or something. I hate they use good and scarce rosewood for them.
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Jun 18, 2023 14:34
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Kaiser Schnitzel posted:I’ve always worried about those and thought about buying one to modify into a moulding plane or something. I hate they use good and scarce rosewood for them. From the video the wood looks cross grained so not sure it's actual rosewood. Rex also got some scratches on the sole from planing which seems odd for a relatively hard wood considering IIRC the hardest wood he tested on was Sapelli.
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Jun 18, 2023 14:44
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Ugh, was just getting done with my fourth coat of nitrocellulose on my chair I was refinishing...and because I work safe I had the garage door open and a fan blowing out... ...a giant gust of wind overcame my fan and covered the wet finish in dry leaves. Back to square loving one.
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Jun 19, 2023 00:31
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Blindeye posted:Ugh, was just getting done with my fourth coat of nitrocellulose on my chair I was refinishing...and because I work safe I had the garage door open and a fan blowing out...  Once you get the leaves off, you should be able to mostly sand out the defects from the leaves and keep spraying-NC lacquer is VERY forgiving. Sand the bad areas almost back to bare wood, spray another coat or three, sand it back, rinse wash repeat until it looks nice and then spray your last coat. The more dry time you can give it between spraying/sanding on each coat around the defects the better. It takes a few days sometimes for the lacquer to shrink all the way down. Rub it out before the last coat and finish with a coat of satin and it'll look great. Depending on how bad the leaf crap is and how much lacquer you have on there already, you may be able to just rub it all out anyway. I have been amazed what sins some steel wool can fix.
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Jun 19, 2023 01:24
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Has anyone had experience with Home Depot cutting up plywood? I have a project where I need some plywood ripped into 5" wide strips and do not have the tools or space to handle full size sheets. The width can be off slightly since I figure they won't be able to be super precise. I know they charge a nominal fee per cut and I have no problem with that.
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Jun 19, 2023 02:07
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Mister Kingdom posted:Has anyone had experience with Home Depot cutting up plywood? They do one cut for free. Their accuracy is ±1 inch, generally. They will knock it down to an easier to handle size, but don't expect them to make clean final cuts for you.
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Jun 19, 2023 02:09
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You basically want them doing the minimum number of cuts required to get it into your car.
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Jun 19, 2023 02:23
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Mister Kingdom posted:Has anyone had experience with Home Depot cutting up plywood? I think they will only crosscut too, not rip. They just have a panel saw.
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Jun 19, 2023 03:09
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They are equipped to do both, but ask yourself "how badly can they gently caress this up?" and it will always be worse than whatever your imagination can provide
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Jun 19, 2023 04:06
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| # ? May 17, 2024 00:35 |
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At least at my location they refused to do any cut where the offcut piece was smaller than 12" as well
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Jun 19, 2023 04:28
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