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DesperateDan posted:holy gently caress tattoo is bad Told you. Next episode is much better though, and provides a possible answer to your question about the Ocampa.
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Jun 18, 2023 18:43
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Knormal posted:My vote for worst Voyager episode goes to the one where Janeway's ancestor hangs out in the midwest on New Year's Eve 1999. Just absolutely a bunch of nothing. Even back when it aired, I always wondered if it was like somebody's completely unrelated TV script that somehow got shoehorned into being produced as a Star Trek episode.
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Jun 18, 2023 19:01
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I like the general idea of "11:59" -- that our family myths and legends we take inspiration from or pride in are often overblown, and even if we find out the truth about them we tend to hold onto them anyway -- but I think it would've been better if they had gone in a more anthology format with it instead of focusing on Millennium Gate for 80% of the runtime. Also show us the story of Harry Kim's great-great-uncle, or that prizefighter Seven's got on her PADD or whatever, instead of spending 10 seconds on it before jumping back into the Lifetime special movie
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Jun 18, 2023 19:09
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Item Getter posted:Even back when it aired, I always wondered if it was like somebody's completely unrelated TV script that somehow got shoehorned into being produced as a Star Trek episode. I don't what it's very plainly a Star Trek episode. It's Star Trek as gently caress - it's about optimism for a better future, bringing humanity together across differences to achieve great things, and a hope for what the future will be. It's just told as a story about Janeway's ancestor. Most every classic Star Trek series has an episode like this where you get the Star Trek themes in a contemporary human-only setting - "Family," "Far Beyond The Stars," "Carbon Creek." (TOS might have one but I can't think of it offhand.)
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Jun 18, 2023 19:10
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Arivia posted:I don't what 11:59 may have had good intentions but it absolutely doesn't work.
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Jun 18, 2023 19:28
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Arivia posted:Told you. Next episode is much better though, and provides a possible answer to your question about the Ocampa. next episode was alright but all it really answered was "if they found another ocampan would they be a manipulative pompous dick" and the answer is yes maybe that's why no-one suggested saving the stranded ocampans to the caretaker worshippers, in case they develop powers and turn all lovely also
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Jun 18, 2023 20:53
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By midway through Voyager's trip home Ocampa would have run out of stored energy, so either the shields failed and the Kazon stormed the place or the Ocampa just didn't do anything until it was too late. Either way I'm guessing all of them who weren't on the space station went extinct.
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Jun 18, 2023 21:11
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I kind of wish they'd gone all the way with Voyager's concept given Janeway being all "We'll keep finding new stuff until we find something that can get us back" (I'm trying again to watch it, I just kind of stopped last time). I know how the series is going to end because of videos discussing the plot, but it would have been cool if by the time Voyager got back home the ship was so cobbled together with varied bits and new technologies that it was completely unrecognisable.
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Jun 18, 2023 21:17
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A lot of those ideas were basically impossible because this was a syndicated show
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Jun 18, 2023 21:19
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The way I remember it, after Scorpion, Janeway's like "well, these Borg enhancements to the ship are good, leave them in!" and then the next episode, B'Ellana goes "actually we have to rip it out" as if she's channelling Rick Berman.
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Jun 18, 2023 21:31
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A great use of people with outdated ideas from the 20th century would be if someone assumed Torres was going to be aggressive and passionate, and she's like "What, because I'm half-Klingon?" "No, because you're half Spanish."
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Jun 18, 2023 21:41
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BioEnchanted posted:A great use of people with outdated ideas from the 20th century would be if someone assumed Torres was going to be aggressive and passionate, and she's like "What, because I'm half-Klingon?" "No, because you're half Spanish." The problem with that is she is aggressive and passionate.
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Jun 18, 2023 22:56
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davidspackage posted:The way I remember it, after Scorpion, Janeway's like "well, these Borg enhancements to the ship are good, leave them in!" and then the next episode, B'Ellana goes "actually we have to rip it out" as if she's channelling Rick Berman.
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Jun 18, 2023 23:41
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Seska is one hosed up villain. "YOU'RE GOING TO BE A FATHER"
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Jun 19, 2023 00:05
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Arivia posted:Seska is one hosed up villain. "YOU'RE GOING TO BE A FATHER" i always thought that was pretty funny (in a hosed up way, of course). seska "extracted his DNA", yeah i bet
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Jun 19, 2023 00:12
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Seska as a villain always sucked to me because in order to make her threatening, she constantly had to make the crew of Voyager look incompetent. They spent a lot of time over the first two seasons talking about how inferior Kazon tech is, but she's able to routinely get the best of Voyager because the plot demands it.
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Jun 19, 2023 01:03
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FlamingLiberal posted:Seska as a villain always sucked to me because in order to make her threatening, she constantly had to make the crew of Voyager look incompetent. to be fair that's not very hard
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Jun 19, 2023 01:17
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Beeftweeter posted:to be fair that's not very hard
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Jun 19, 2023 01:42
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I have to admit Search - Part 2 fell flat for me. I generally liked the Odo and Kira bits, but was kind of expecting the Changelings to ask Odo to turn on Kira. I'm not sure if it would have been better or worse than what the actual twist was. I can't pretend I'm a fan of "it was all a dream" endings because it cheapens the drama and conflict going forward. As soon as you introduce unreliable narrators and "get out of conflict free" cards it becomes harder for me to invest myself in the future. On the other hand, House of Quark was a blast. I think this is the first time we've ever seen Ferengi virtues portrayed as valuable and with merit. The Klingons made for a fantastic foil and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Quark out maneuver their sense of honor while actually doing the right thing. I do gotta admit, I kinda wish he had stayed married because I liked the dynamic with his Klingon wife and would have liked to see more Ferengi-Klingon antics.
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Jun 19, 2023 01:47
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As someone who recently watched The Search, I was just wondering how the heck everyone was going to survive PERIOD, considering how absolutely outclassed even the Defiant was. I also just finished the episode with Tom Riker and I'm a little confused. Whose side is Dukat on?
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Jun 19, 2023 03:32
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Dukat’s side.
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Jun 19, 2023 03:58
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Aces High posted:As someone who recently watched The Search, I was just wondering how the heck everyone was going to survive PERIOD, considering how absolutely outclassed even the Defiant was. "OK well it's episode 2 of season 3, we're obviously not going to kill the cast or premise of the show, and we're at at the 45 minutes mark, so I guess everyone just gets to go home as if nothing happened." I know I'm repeating myself at this point, but the show really does not benefit from being a 90s episodic TV show while trying to tell a mature, serialized story. We did at least get one good nugget in the form of "no Changeling has ever hurt another Changeling" so hopefully that gets built upon down the road. quote:I also just finished the episode with Tom Riker and I'm a little confused. Whose side is Dukat on? Not seen this episode, but my understanding of Cardassian politics thus far is that every Cardassian is balancing being a selfish prick against some vague notion of fighting for the ideal future of Cardassia, and what that ideal future looks like varies from Cardassian to Cardassian, and even week by week for the same Cardassian. Gul Dukat cares about Gul Dukat first and foremost, but he does want Cardassia to be the best it can be, so long as in being the best he gets to have a say in how things are done. We also only ever get about half the story of what's happening with the Cardassians in any given political mess. It's hard to say for sure where Cardassians stand on any issue because at this point in Season 3 (for me at least) we haven't had an all Cardassian episode or an episode where the POV character is exclusively and sympathetically Cardassian. We actually have a much better understanding of the Ferengi at this point because we've had several episodes focused solely on them and their culture and inner workings. This is a thing that Babylon 5 did loving amazingly well with the PsyCorps. We are introduced to Bester, a reoccurring villain played by our man Walter Koenig, in season 1. He's mysterious and evil, but we don't know quite what his motivations or allegiances are until later on. In season 5, we get a whole episode from his and his organization's perspective. It doesn't make him a good guy by any means, but it does help fill in the gaps and show how he sees the world. I'm sure there's going to be an equivalent Cardassian episode down the road, as opposed to episodes from the Federation's perspective as they try to navigate Cardassian politics. I'm all for it because I loving love the Cardassians.
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Jun 19, 2023 04:11
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Aces High posted:As someone who recently watched The Search, I was just wondering how the heck everyone was going to survive PERIOD, considering how absolutely outclassed even the Defiant was. Your side, don’t you understand? Don’t you realize all he did for you? If not for Dukat, your life would have been so much worse, he helped you, protected you. He never wanted to hurt you. He had to, to keep you safe.
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Jun 19, 2023 04:33
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As far as early Voyager episodes, I feel Time and Again is one of the stronger ones. It's a fun idea with them trying to figure out how to save themselves without loving things up, only for them to realise that the Directive does not play into it, because they are inextricably linked to the death of the civilisation unless they can stop it
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Jun 19, 2023 04:38
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Atlas Hugged posted:I have to admit Search - Part 2 fell flat for me. I generally liked the Odo and Kira bits, but was kind of expecting the Changelings to ask Odo to turn on Kira. I'm not sure if it would have been better or worse than what the actual twist was. People say Year of Hell has a cop-out ending, but I feel the Search is worse - at least Year of Hell warns you right from the start that there's time shenanigans, so the reset button doesn't come out of nowhere. quote:On the other hand, House of Quark was a blast. I think this is the first time we've ever seen Ferengi virtues portrayed as valuable and with merit. The Klingons made for a fantastic foil and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Quark out maneuver their sense of honor while actually doing the right thing. One of the things DS9 does well that the other shows don't do as much is have the aliens interact with each other, not just humans.
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Jun 19, 2023 04:47
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The Cardassian government is controlled by three main factions. Dukat is from the military wing of the government, but the Obsidian Order is the branch focused on espionage, and it is clear that they've been up to poo poo and building an independent power base that could be a threat to the other branches of the Cardassian government. That's a large part of the tension between him and Garak, not just that Garak is a dishonorable exile, but the fact that Garak is from the Obsidian Order. And of course later on in the show, the Obsidian Order does reveal its private armada when they use it to attack the Dominion, but when the Dominion overpowers them entirely, destroying the order. Later the military totally overthrows the remaining branch of government, but eventually the Dominion takes over and Dukat happily becomes the puppet supreme ruler of Cardassia, at least until he gets distracted by becoming the antichrist. Neat, but a bit disappointing they're sticking with just four main factions. I know in the real world there's only so many prominent alien groups, but Trek in the show always liked to imply that there was a lot more complexity in international galactic politics even if it didn't spend that much time detailing it, so that they could feel the freedom to slide in new big alien nations whenever they wanted. I always thought with Europa Universalis, regardless of whether there was a fun in the exploration and colonization part of the game, it was too much busywork when your attention was still needed to manage things at home, so maybe a game that was just the exploration could be interesting. Except you'll probably still need to put in the work to be ready for wars.
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Jun 19, 2023 05:03
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what's the third cardassian faction, the detapa council? i always figured they were something of a non-entity because even dukat becomes a part of it at one point, it seems to be sort of beneath the central command in their social hierarchy
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Jun 19, 2023 05:27
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Ok, starting my TNG rewatch. I’ve seen Encounter at Farpoint and The Naked Now a dozen times…so, S01E03 Code of Honor, here we go. Still would like some watch-along podcasts if you have any to recommend.
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Jun 19, 2023 05:35
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Beeftweeter posted:what's the third cardassian faction, the detapa council? i always figured they were something of a non-entity because even dukat becomes a part of it at one point, it seems to be sort of beneath the central command in their social hierarchy the Detapa Council was the civilian legislature that nominally controlled both the military and the Obsidian Order they didn't have any actual power up until the Order got itself blown up and the dissident movement helped the Council restore its authority over the military, which lasted for like a month before the Klingons invaded and forced them into exile, and then eventually it was moot because Dukat singlehandedly negotiated Cardassia into the Dominion
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Jun 19, 2023 05:36
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SlothfulCobra posted:Neat, but a bit disappointing they're sticking with just four main factions. I know in the real world there's only so many prominent alien groups, but Trek in the show always liked to imply that there was a lot more complexity in international galactic politics even if it didn't spend that much time detailing it, so that they could feel the freedom to slide in new big alien nations whenever they wanted. I'm hoping it suggests they're going for more of a Birth of the Federation 2 thing than a straight Stellaris mod. That game had these four plus the Ferengi as playable factions.
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Jun 19, 2023 06:46
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SlothfulCobra posted:Neat, but a bit disappointing they're sticking with just four main factions. I know in the real world there's only so many prominent alien groups, but Trek in the show always liked to imply that there was a lot more complexity in international galactic politics even if it didn't spend that much time detailing it, so that they could feel the freedom to slide in new big alien nations whenever they wanted. The Stellaris Star Trek mod is really good at that - they've grabbed aliens from the novels, RPGs, and ones that were only mentioned in passing to fill out the map - so if you're, say, the Romulans, there's still other empires to worry about on the other side of the Empire from the Federation. And it's fun seeing weird alliances form - I had a game where Cardassia collapsed, but a Tzenkethi/Breen coalition took their place as the major power in that part of the map.
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Jun 19, 2023 07:03
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I like the idea that some Trek things shouldn't necessarily be full factions if more interesting ways can be found to represent them, like the Borg are perfect as an endgame crisis event, the Ferengi could be like the Melnorme in Star Control or something, etc.
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Jun 19, 2023 07:04
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Screenshots show that smaller worlds can grow out into their own empires, they just look smaller to start and probably less expansionist than the big 4, at least by default. If it's a full on Stellaris total conversion I don't see any reason why they wouldn't let you play around with the starting conditions or mess with options to let other worlds go nuts, just leaving in options from Stellaris. (One neat thing we're getting out of this: symbols for every Trek world included, and it seems like there's going to be quite a lot.) I'm a little disappointed they didn't Trekify the interface a bit more. They could've given it a few LCARS flairs, even if they didn't want to go full on bright colors. Or they could've used some of the pictograms that Trek has used to varying degrees of consistency since TMP, in the movies and 90s Trek and nuTrek, all. Or at least the department symbols from TOS. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Jun 19, 2023 |
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Jun 19, 2023 07:07
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Focusing on just those four major powers as the playable empires could potentially mean more flavorful content cause they can focus on creating mechanics and events specific to those four rather than having to resort to tons of generic events that could happen to any of the dozens of alien races that could potentially be included in a Star Trek game. In the realm of Paradox grand strategy games, the relative lack of country-specific flavor is one of the big complaints people have about Victoria 3, and this could be sort of a move in the opposite direction.
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Jun 19, 2023 07:23
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Pakled posted:Focusing on just those four major powers as the playable empires could potentially mean more flavorful content cause they can focus on creating mechanics and events specific to those four. Yeah, we've seen a mission screen that includes things like constructing an Enterprise and crewing it out if you're playing Federation.
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Jun 19, 2023 07:30
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MikeJF posted:Yeah, we've seen a mission screen that includes things like constructing an Enterprise and crewing it out if you're playing Federation. yeah but they just replace it with the scimitar if you're playing the romulans
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Jun 19, 2023 07:31
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Tunicate posted:yeah but they just replace it with the scimitar if you're playing the romulans I'm kinda sad looking at ships that they're not using some of the nicer STO models for filling out the non-fed fleets now that it seems like CBS is facilitating asset sharing, it would've been neat to see a Bortasqu' show up as the Klingon flagship, I've always been fond of that big ol' lumbering monster, even if it is a starcraft ripoff.
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Jun 19, 2023 07:35
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I'd like to see a star trek game with a level on a ruined Borg Cube, and when you investigate what happened you find that they got assimilated themselves - at least partially. They got attacked by the guys who are dying of the Phage and had a bunch of random mechanical organs stolen, causing catastrophic damage to the drones and the ship itself. They are basically the anti-borg in that they don't assimilate you, they just take the bits of you that they want, and that could be a fun clash of the villains.
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Jun 19, 2023 07:41
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Angry Salami posted:One of the things DS9 does well that the other shows don't do as much is have the aliens interact with each other, not just humans. Right? The Federation has a lot of humans in it, but they aren't solely a human faction, and the other alien factions are supposed to be just as or nearly as powerful as the Federation and don't solely have dealings with humans or the Federation. Realistically, aliens would be interacting with one another independent of humans all the time, and they would have long and rich histories. I think the premise of the show gets that right from the start, having the Bajorans and the Cardassians be the initial central conflict gets across that this is about more than just Earth and its priorities.
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Jun 19, 2023 08:28
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I honestly forgot how good TNG is. I also think I haven’t watched the first season since it originally aired…when I was 7. Getting some very interesting flashbacks of being scared of the special effects. I remember being terrified of the Ferengi and their whips. Now…oh, boy, they were making some choices back in ‘87, weren’t they? Very cool seeing Armin Shimerman, though. Anyway, I just finished Where No One Has Gone Before. Goddamit, I shouldn’t doxx myself like this…but my name is Wes and I have loving hated Wil Wheaton my entire life. Fucker ruined my own name for me. Patrick Stewart says ‘Wes’ weird, too, and that makes me sad.
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Jun 19, 2023 09:30
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