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Maybe I'm a luddite/rear end in a top hat, but I don't like using grigris because they can build bad belay habits. Why not use an atc and just pay attention when you are in charge of someone else's life. I don't really mind when other people belay me with a grigri, as long as I don't survive the fall. Just don't fuckin maim me.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:36
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BlancoNino posted:Maybe I'm a luddite/rear end in a top hat, but I don't like using grigris because they can build bad belay habits. Why not use an atc and just pay attention when you are in charge of someone else's life. I don't really mind when other people belay me with a grigri, as long as I don't survive the fall. Just don't fuckin maim me. 1)My partner and I both enjoy working routes section by section, so lots of hanging, and for the belayer a grigri makes that way easier on the arms. 2)I like the extra security on lead. 3)I find a grigri to be more straightforward when belaying a second off a fixed anchor. I'll be honest it's mostly 1 though. 2 and 3 are just how I justify owning multiple $100 belay devices. Baronash fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Jun 14, 2023 |
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Jun 14, 2023 16:45
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Jorath posted:At my gym they provide the grigri 2 (affixed to the rope). I'm surprised that most gyms don't do this, as it seems far safer to have a consistent device they can train people on. They don't make 'em friendly for left-handed people, so I'd be kinda salty if I were forced to use one. Maybe I'd get used to it if I had to use one, but I'll happily stick with an ATC.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:52
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Personally everyone I know who owns a grigri still uses an ATC for lead, except for one. Grigris mostly get used for toproping or for belaying a follower on multipitch. That being said I am aware from reading and HardIsEasy and stuff that if you know what you're doing, a grigri is great for lead and can help guard (somewhat) against a sudden loss of control like getting bonked in the head. I keep thinking i should get more comfortable lead belaying on a grigri but it hasn't happened yet. Also if you don't know what you're doing a grigri can be dangerous, even if you're not doing something boneheaded like panic-pulling the lever or not holding the brake. HardIsEasy has demonstrated several interesting cases where a Grigri fails due to surprisingly subtle mistakes, and he is even a big grigri advocate.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:20
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BlancoNino posted:Maybe I'm a luddite/rear end in a top hat, but I don't like using grigris because they can build bad belay habits. Why not use an atc and just pay attention when you are in charge of someone else's life. I don't really mind when other people belay me with a grigri, as long as I don't survive the fall. Just don't fuckin maim me. I climb in Eldo a lot and "pay attention" doesn't mean poo poo if there's rockfall that hits you in the head.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:39
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A big lead fall can be pretty violent, especially if the climber outweighs the belayer by a decent amount. If the belayer is getting yanked way up, maybe even hitting the wall, there's a chance even an experienced belayer could let rope slip through an ATC. I really appreciate a gri-gri for the peace of mind for that, both as climber and as belayer. Look at both videos from the two slides of this Nina Caprez IG post: https://www.instagram.com/p/CchgWstqG9P/?hl=en Are those falls getting held if the belayer is on an ATC? Probably! But is 'probably' enough for you? There are a lot of things that people sometimes call "dangerous" that aren't actually all that dangerous, that hardly anyone ever actually gets hurt or killed from. Belayers dropping people is actually one of the things that's real, and it happens a lot less now that assisted braking devices are so common. Slimy Hog posted:I climb in Eldo a lot and "pay attention" doesn't mean poo poo if there's rockfall that hits you in the head. This too.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:39
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Yeah, the failures I've seen with an ATC would all have probably not happened with an assisted belay device. Most of the grigri failures the belayer hosed up so bad it doesn't really matter what belay device they were supposed to be protecting their climber with. I guess you can argue that the grigri is what made those climbers complacent, but it's really just that there're a lot more new people climbing now and a lot less mentoring. All the times I've seen people get dropped on an ATC were like 20 years ago, now there's hardly anyone around me belaying with an ATC for me to see them gently caress it up. I've also personally been slammed into the wall/pulled up until I hit the first bolt several times because I'm a lot lighter than most people I climb with, and I'm glad I had an ABD for that. I never lost control of the brake strand or anything, but still. Sab669 posted:They don't make 'em friendly for left-handed people, so I'd be kinda salty if I were forced to use one. You could use something like the BD ATC Pilot, which I used for a while because I've never liked the way the grigri fit my hand. I assume it works just as well left handed as a regular ATC.
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Jun 14, 2023 18:51
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Of the two gyms I climb at, both require a grigri or other assisted device for lead belaying. One is fine with tubular devices for TR and the other has grigris pre-set on every TR, and beefy twistlock biners for the climber to clip into like on an autobelay (which I actually dont love, something about tying in myself is reassuring, Im always paranoid Ive mis-clipped somehow.)
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Jun 14, 2023 19:00
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Ya'll have good points, but I'm 220 lbs and always wear a helmet outside, so I'll stick to what I've been using for the last 20 something years of climbing.
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Jun 14, 2023 20:37
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If y'all haven't seen it I highly recommend HardIsEasy's safety/technical equipment videos, I think it was someone itt who first showed me the Belay Masterclass series from him. Anyway he analyzes a couple of interesting subtle grigri mistakes that even an experienced belayed could do (holding the brake strand but not right) https://youtu.be/-YkpZ-_e4mk https://youtu.be/wz1PTbjQ3pc A not so subtle and really  but still common one (not holding the brake strand at all)https://youtu.be/jKe72j_mBlU One about getting sucked into the first draw https://youtu.be/VmZE55W5SHo And a long video on what conditions will make a grigri slip https://youtu.be/We-nxljgnw4 He is a grigri advocate btw, he just also likes to dig into what can go wrong and how to avoid it (as we all should)
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Jun 14, 2023 21:00
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BlancoNino posted:Ya'll have good points, but I'm 220 lbs and always wear a helmet outside, so I'll stick to what I've been using for the last 20 something years of climbing. I hope you never have a heart attack, or are attacked by a swarm of wasps while belaying (which I have been), or any number of other things that can go wrong. I learned on an ATC, and felt the same way about the grigri for many years, but honestly it's really easy to lead belay properly with a grigri with a bit of practice (using Petzl's approved method). It's a nice added safety margin and pretty hard to argue against without sounding like  these days imho.
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Jun 14, 2023 21:02
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armorer posted:I learned on an ATC, and felt the same way about the grigri for many years, but honestly it's really easy to lead belay properly with a grigri with a bit of practice (using Petzl's approved method). It's a nice added safety margin and pretty hard to argue against without sounding like This is essentially my feeling about it as well. I'll note that I'm left handed and switched to braking with my right hand during the process of getting comfortable with the GriGri. Especially for partners my age (late twenties / thirties) a lack of competence with it makes me a little suspect of overall skills. Not a total dealbreaker but would get me asking questions. Someone's gotta bring up double ropes though to really get this convo going! Can't use those with a GriGri 
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Jun 14, 2023 21:46
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This one in particular I'm having trouble imagining the circumstances that led to it. Some situation where I need to be taking in slack so that there's a long loop between my brake hand and the belay device, but then immediately need to depress the cam in order to pay out slack to the climber without taking a moment to slide my hand up? I mean, clearly it happened and is worth watching out for, but drat that sounds really unlucky.
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Jun 14, 2023 21:49
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Baronash posted:This one in particular I'm having trouble imagining the circumstances that led to it. Some situation where I need to be taking in slack so that there's a long loop between my brake hand and the belay device, but then immediately need to depress the cam in order to pay out slack to the climber without taking a moment to slide my hand up? It's probably being told not to tunnel (slide your brake hand up the rope towards the device while your other hand is on the lead strand and not backing up your brake hand) and kind of taking the wrong lesson from it.
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Jun 14, 2023 22:00
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Baronash posted:This one in particular I'm having trouble imagining the circumstances that led to it. Some situation where I need to be taking in slack so that there's a long loop between my brake hand and the belay device, but then immediately need to depress the cam in order to pay out slack to the climber without taking a moment to slide my hand up? This isn't that outrageous of a scenario - Pumped climber pulls rope to make a clip, fumbles it, drops the rope, belayer takes the slack back expecting a fall, climber then pulls rope again a bit frantically. This crazy rope burn is still easily avoided though by feeding the rope through without depressing the cam (as the video points out, and as the official petzl process states you should be doing anyway), but also don't have a death grip on the rope with your off hand. You don't need to wrap a fist around it to pull some slack through the device. Another thing worth pointing out is that the official process of putting the side of your finger under the lip of the device and depressing the cam with your thumb is very rarely needed. Often you get enough pressure with just your thumb on the cam and the rest of your hand not touching the device at all, particularly when the climber-side strand has some tension on it. In that configuration any tug on the rope will still allow the device to lock up.
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Jun 14, 2023 22:04
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I only use an ATC for doubles or a snow objective that needs a rope. Grigri otherwise. Everyone who i have seen hit the deck or almost hit the deck (myself included) was being belated by an atc. It is all about knowing what you are doing though.
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Jun 15, 2023 02:56
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With a Grigri an experienced belayer can take in 3 meters of slack during a fall on the first and second bolts if the climbers is run out or botches a clip. You won't have time to bring the braking hand back down but enough time to pull slack thru and jump back. Can't be done as effectively with a belay plate since when you jump back with the braking hand up you won't be able to hold the rope. Only to be done to prevent decking since you increase the fall factor by quite a bit and also rely on the Grigri's cam to engage.
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Jun 17, 2023 21:55
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I always use a gri gri. I caught a lead fall recently that caused me to trip over a rock as I stepped to give a softer catch. In that moment I let go of the dead rope. Absolutely nothing bad happened. Use a gri gri.
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Jun 19, 2023 13:59
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I just climbed off width for the first time this weekend and although I have brisues all over my body, I enjoyed it?
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Jun 19, 2023 15:03
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Slimy Hog posted:I just climbed off width for the first time this weekend and although I have brisues all over my body, I enjoyed it? did you go to Vedauwoo?
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Jun 19, 2023 17:23
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spwrozek posted:did you go to Vedauwoo? Yep! My wife planned a short trip for me and a buddy as a father's day present. It was pretty awesome, the approaches were nonexistent and the friction was SO good. We did Edward's crack, some 5.4 on the Nautilus and a "5.7" on Poland Hill called sugar crack that felt way harder than 5.7 to me.
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Jun 19, 2023 18:07
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I like seeing pictures of areas, hopefully you all will tolerate me posting a few. Finally stopped raining here, I dunno if I've ever seen colorado looking this green! Unfortunately I thought "lets find that quarry area on table mountain" would be fun, instead of going somewhere with nice things to look at while climbing. My kid called this the chossiest pile of poo poo he's ever been on, way worse than golden cliffs on the other side. And got revenge on me by dropping all sorts of crap onto my head.  He led this one https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106405991/moon-scape and said someone must have broken off the footholds, that it was way harder than rated. That maybe the dude who said it was a 9 ripped absolutely everything off on the way up. At least we didn't get bitten by a rattlesnake, a kid did in this area just recently. Did see a huge rear end bull snake though.
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Jun 19, 2023 21:44
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Baddog posted:I like seeing pictures of areas, hopefully you all will tolerate me posting a few. Finally stopped raining here, I dunno if I've ever seen colorado looking this green! Did y'all climb mostly sport? I've been meaning to check that area out for some trad, but it sounds like we should skip it. And since you like crag photos, here's a picture of the voo I took yesterday 
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Jun 20, 2023 02:22
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Those picture make me want to go on another climbing weekend. I'll play too! This is my favourite climbing spot "close" to my place. I'd go just to hike and to enjoy the view even if there wasn't great climbing there. 
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Jun 20, 2023 02:42
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Slimy Hog posted:Did y'all climb mostly sport? I've been meaning to check that area out for some trad, but it sounds like we should skip it. Just sport, yep. Can't speak to the trad there at all, but it really did seem very flaky/"friable". I guess the + was that on a nice day we had that whole area to ourselves. hah. And it was shaded in the afternoon. quote:And since you like crag photos, here's a picture of the voo I took yesterday Nice! We need to get up there.
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Jun 20, 2023 02:53
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Post more crag photos! Unfortunately most of mine have people's faces in them so I'm not down to share, but here's a middle school not far from my place that has a cool faux boulder in front And one of me taking my 5 year old up the whale's tail in eldo 
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Jun 20, 2023 02:55
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KingColliwog posted:Those picture make me want to go on another climbing weekend Same. I've been itching for another chance to do some multipitch stuff since my Gunks trip last month, but apparently the 2 sport crags near me are all single pitch  I need to just move finally.And, not my image but still super cool that I found recently: 
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Jun 20, 2023 16:46
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Sab669 posted:Same. I've been itching for another chance to do some multipitch stuff since my Gunks trip last month, but apparently the 2 sport crags near me are all single pitch I believe the artist that made that also made ones for The Nears and Millbrook
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Jun 20, 2023 17:34
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armorer posted:I believe the artist that made that also made ones for The Nears and Millbrook He's made a bunch of them: https://www.montblanclines.com/
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Jun 20, 2023 17:36
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Planning a trip to Colorado in August. Will stay in Colorado Springs. What are some good climbing areas within close proximity (~90 min drive)? I know of Shelf Road and Devil's head, and Eleven Mile Canyon further to the west. There's also Garden of the Gods but the reviews are mixed - lots of climbers complain about tourists, and the climbing being not that great. Any others?
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Jun 20, 2023 17:43
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Slimy Hog posted:Did y'all climb mostly sport? I've been meaning to check that area out for some trad, but it sounds like we should skip it. There is legitimately no reason to go to North Table for climbing. You are better off at movement. Slimy Hog posted:Yep! My wife planned a short trip for me and a buddy as a father's day present. It was pretty awesome, the approaches were nonexistent and the friction was SO good. Best thing for the Voo, jeans, long sleeves, and crack gloves. I some 5.8 there once, really hard. Slow News Day posted:Planning a trip to Colorado in August. Will stay in Colorado Springs. Shelf will be way too hot. GoG probably as well, and not worth it imo. Eleven mile should be ok temps, the climbing there is ok but not a destination imo. Devil's head has some great stuff and should have ok temps.
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Jun 20, 2023 19:40
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spwrozek posted:Shelf will be way too hot. GoG probably as well, and not worth it imo. Eleven mile should be ok temps, the climbing there is ok but not a destination imo. Devil's head has some great stuff and should have ok temps. Thanks. We're in Central Texas so we're used to climbing in 100 degree weather. When I went to SR several years ago me and my group were able to climb all day without issue. If memory serves, you can go to different walls throughout the day to stay in the shade and/or under tree cover.
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Jun 20, 2023 20:17
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I thought Red Rock Canyon was decent, and if you're staying in colorado springs it is right there. https://www.mountainproject.com/area/105744457/red-rock-canyon-open-space Garden of the Gods is kinda fun for the novelty and surroundings, you should at least visit it even if you don't want to bother climbing and having people ogle you. Parking can be a bitch if you're going on the weekends. But Red Rock canyon seemed to have zero tourist traffic, just locals taking a walk or climbing. This is what red rock canyon looks like. I *think* this was from a lower down section, not on "the whale". 
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Jun 20, 2023 20:33
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Here's the last time I went climbing: better rock than N table but also a little harder to get there so, you know, tradeoffs
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Jun 20, 2023 20:53
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Going climbing for the first time this year later today. Late last year I ended up with an impingement in a shoulder which took forever to rehab. I ended up getting that sorted out and had exactly 3 pain free days of lifting, at which point my other shoulder started to hurt. It's still not great but I'm at the point now where I can do pull ups from a dead hang without pain (edit: nevermind, I just tried on my hangboard and it still hurts a lot to do that) so I'm gonna go try to hammer out a bunch of V0s to see how it feels. I also gained 20 pounds but then lost 20 pounds so I'm probably much less muscular/strong bvj191jgl7bBsqF5m fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jun 20, 2023 |
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Jun 20, 2023 21:33
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The pain I picked up on the aforementioned trip is also being quite stubborn. My physical therapist gave me a handful of exercises that were mostly decent. I decided to pony up out of pocket and booked a session with the guy who runs the Bouldering Breakdown youtube channel. I've used his videos a ton for beta at Niagara Glen then recently a friend told me he's a doctor and she used him for some issues. He had some pretty good advice as well that felt a bit "better targeted" for the pain I was having than my PT did. Oddly though, now instead of the pain being all in my triceps it feels a bit more shouldery?  It's definitely getting better each day, but ugh taking time off due to pain blows chunks.
Sab669 fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Jun 20, 2023 |
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Jun 20, 2023 21:48
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Slow News Day posted:Thanks. We're in Central Texas so we're used to climbing in 100 degree weather. When I went to SR several years ago me and my group were able to climb all day without issue. If memory serves, you can go to different walls throughout the day to stay in the shade and/or under tree cover. To each their own . If it is 100F out you will have the place to yourself. You probably will regardless actually.
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Jun 21, 2023 02:33
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spwrozek posted:There is legitimately no reason to go to North Table for climbing. You are better off at movement. You can't plug gear at the gym though! I tend to only hit up table if I think it's going to be the only dry crag in the winter but otherwise I agree with you.
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Jun 21, 2023 15:52
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Nationals training camp at spot Louisville next week, they've got ~10 routes set for it.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:25
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Went to the gym today in spite of my shoulder. Playing around with jug hauls on the spray wall and my shoulder feels fine for some reason. But I'm also very very weak and my fingers hurt after 30 mins of jugs lmao
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Jun 25, 2023 20:16
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