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Tunicate posted:They just found a sealed bottle of Roman purfume in an urn i mean who couldn't. gotta imagine millenia-old patchouli gets funky, think of how bad grandma's house already is
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Jun 13, 2023 06:38
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Archaeologist: Huh, wonder why this jar is engraved with picture of a securis...
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Jun 13, 2023 08:36
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Mandoric posted:Even Walpole still expected at times to be dismissed for reasons other than losing the confidence of the Commons, no? I was thinking more of the Long Parliament, who sort of resisted dismissal at pike and musket point.  (not otherwise a great example in some ways I guess, that's the 'long' bit, it's not like they stood for re-election)
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Jun 13, 2023 10:05
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Mister Olympus posted:i mean who couldn't. gotta imagine millenia-old patchouli gets funky, think of how bad grandma's house already is "Is my college roommate buried here"
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Jun 13, 2023 14:27
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Patchouli smells perfectly fine, as long as you're not trying to use it as a substitute for bathing and deodorant. I think it's very cool that the quartz vial got the same kind of crazing and iridescence that you usually see in Roman glass.
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Jun 13, 2023 14:56
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Jun 13, 2023 19:25
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Nomads and settleds unite to say gently caress you, it smelled good at the time
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Jun 13, 2023 20:45
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Mad Hamish posted:I think it's very cool that the quartz vial got the same kind of crazing and iridescence that you usually see in Roman glass.
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Jun 16, 2023 07:21
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https://www.newsweek.com/ancient-sword-germany-octagonal-rare-1807156 extremely cool sword found
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Jun 16, 2023 17:13
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Scarodactyl posted:I think that is the dessicated perfume. Unlike glass quartz does not mind being buried one bit. Well I didn't even think of that! I just thought it was unusual for quartz to do so. I can't remember what museum I was at where they had a lot of Roman glass, but most of it had the iridescence going on. Strange how deterioration can be so pretty. ....I wonder what those 'actually, glass is a very slow liquid' people would say about the continued stable shapes of ancient glass.
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Jun 16, 2023 17:45
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Would not recommend cleaning out a several hundred year old pack rat midden. So many 5 gallon buckets of literal rat poo poo.
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Jun 17, 2023 17:31
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Mad Hamish posted:Well I didn't even think of that! I just thought it was unusual for quartz to do so. The latest measurements of the flow rate of glass at room temperature indicate it flows at a rate of about 1 nm per billion years. It's still a slow-flowing liquid, just very, very slow.
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Jun 17, 2023 17:39
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Deteriorata posted:The latest measurements of the flow rate of glass at room temperature indicate it flows at a rate of about 1 nm per billion years. It's still a slow-flowing liquid, just very, very slow. Can't wait for that first drop of glass to fall in a few billion years
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Jun 17, 2023 17:43
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At the level of flowing nanometers over the lifespan of the universe, wouldn't rocks and poo poo be a slow flowing liquid too
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Jun 17, 2023 19:35
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:At the level of flowing nanometers over the lifespan of the universe, wouldn't rocks and poo poo be a slow flowing liquid too I think the difference is (most?) rocks and minerals have a crystalline structure at regular temperatures that preclude even that infinitesimal movement.
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Jun 17, 2023 19:54
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Telsa Cola posted:Would not recommend cleaning out a several hundred year old pack rat midden. At that point do the rats not get some kind of ancestral claim to the land?
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Jun 17, 2023 21:44
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Calling glass a fluid is silly. It's an amorphous solid which is a real and separate class of things. It is not a fluid because it does not flow on any meaningful timeframe, and anyway crystallibe solids flow too when pushed hard enough--the earth's mantle is almost entirely made of solid minerals, not magma like the charts like to imply, but does flow around.
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Jun 17, 2023 22:05
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Polystyrene is a good example of another amorphous solid.
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Jun 18, 2023 00:04
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Telsa Cola posted:Would not recommend cleaning out a several hundred year old pack rat midden. Be careful about Hanta virus. I had some family catch that cleaning out a rat infested property.
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Jun 18, 2023 04:43
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Be careful about Hanta virus. I had some family catch that cleaning out a rat infested property. It's a major concern, we had a granary structure that had a packrat midden that was about 4 feet in diameter and 3 feet deep and I volunteered to clean it out so we could do some restoration work. I masked up but to be honest that dust gets everywhere so yeah. Did find an absolutely motherload of 800-900 year old corn cobs though.
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Jun 18, 2023 04:47
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Corn cobs are handy things. I used to toss them to the dogs as chew toys.
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Jun 18, 2023 08:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Corn cobs are handy things. I used to toss them to the dogs as chew toys. you can wipe your rear end on them too the corn cobs that is
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Jun 18, 2023 08:58
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ChubbyChecker posted:you can wipe your rear end on them too Dogs too if you train em right
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Jun 18, 2023 13:44
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WoodrowSkillson posted:https://www.newsweek.com/ancient-sword-germany-octagonal-rare-1807156 That's awesome! But I made a rookie mistake and read the comments. 
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Jun 18, 2023 15:57
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10 Beers posted:That's awesome! But I made a rookie mistake and read the comments. Lol I had to check Ť Its a hoax ť and Ť Ukraine war non-sequitur ť
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Jun 18, 2023 17:21
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Lol I had to check don't forget the hitler one, although that's the free square for online comments about German stuff.
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Jun 18, 2023 17:29
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10 Beers posted:That's awesome! But I made a rookie mistake and read the comments. The best brains william barker 2 days ago The fact that most archaeological sites have already been plundered , and the unusual exceptional state of the sword, should raise suspicion, that it is not genuine. I think that some radiological dating of the sword,to confirm authenticity , ought to be in order.
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Jun 18, 2023 21:08
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Sorry, there's no archaeology left.
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Jun 19, 2023 03:37
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Proto Indo European had always been a topic I had trouble getting my head around, so I've been slowly working my way through David Anthony's The Horse, the Wheel, and Language. Linguistics was kind of interesting but hard reading for me, but now I'm on the section about archaeology it's been going faster, and this passage jumped out:quote:Domesticated animals can only be raised by people who are committed morally and ethically to watching their families go hungry rather than letting them eat the breeding stock. Seed grain and breeding stock must be saved, not eaten, or there will be no crop and no calves the next year. Foragers generally value immediate sharing and generosity over miserly saving for the future, so the shift to keeping breeding stock was a moral as well as an economic one. It probably offended the old morals. It is not surprising that it was resisted, or that when it did begin it was surrounded by new rituals and a new kind of leadership, or that the new leaders threw big feasts and shared food when the deferred inverstment paid off. Makes total sense I suppose, but I had absolutely never thought about it before. Anyone know other books that go into these kinds of relationships of groups with different subsistence patterns towards culture/land use etc? I'm guessing I might have to delve into anthropology a bit.
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Jun 21, 2023 01:44
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This seems to make a big assumption that foragers have no concept of preserving food for future consumption
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Jun 21, 2023 01:50
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Koramei posted:Proto Indo European had always been a topic I had trouble getting my head around, so I've been slowly working my way through David Anthony's The Horse, the Wheel, and Language. Linguistics was kind of interesting but hard reading for me, but now I'm on the section about archaeology it's been going faster, and this passage jumped out: Göbekli Tepe directly contradicts that claim. It was a huge storehouse and ritual gathering site built by hunter/gatherers. There are numerous sites like it in Turkey and elsewhere. Preservation for future use was absolutely a part of pre-agricultural society. They were not stupid or naive.
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Jun 21, 2023 01:55
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I will say as of where I am now in the book his theory for Proto Indo European origins does seem to rest on a lot of assumptions, some of which are themselves based on other assumptions. He argues a lot of it pretty convincingly but I actually feel more open to the possibility some of the other theories for origins (e.g. Anatolia -- he's arguing for the Ponto-Caspian Steppe) might turn out to have merit some years from now, than I did before I started reading. I'd be curious to read about food preservation among foragers though; I'm sure there were exceptions, but it does seem to make sense it wouldn't be common (although I can't speak to the cultural implications of that). How old are things like pickling, salted meats? You get ceramic pottery in paleolithic East Asia so obviously there were exceptions (and we all know about foragers in some regions that were permanently settled), but food preservation seems a lot less feasible for (most) foragers that a. can't carry much with them and b. get most of their calories from non-cereals that are much harder to preserve. e: there's nothing stupid or naive about not having a technology, or having a cultural inclination that fits your subsistence strategy, even if we can now look back and say they're probably better off doing things differently. I think the passage is striking because it frames how it actually makes total sense that rearing animals might not be intuitive. Also think it's worth stressing he's not just saying storehouse in general, but the concept of not eating your stores even when you're starving. Koramei fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 02:00
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Deteriorata posted:Göbekli Tepe directly contradicts that claim. It was a huge storehouse and ritual gathering site built by hunter/gatherers. There are numerous sites like it in Turkey and elsewhere. There is a distinction between saving surplus for the future and then eating it when times are scarse until it runs out and saving surplus for the future and going hungry while there is still food that could be eaten.
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Jun 21, 2023 02:04
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wins32767 posted:There is a distinction between saving surplus for the future and then eating it when times are scarse until it runs out and saving surplus for the future and going hungry while there is still food that could be eaten. IMO it's a distinction without a difference. If you're reduced to eating your seed corn, you're in trouble no matter what. It buys you a little time, but only delays the inevitable. If you planted it, it would be months before you could reap a harvest anyway.
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Jun 21, 2023 02:14
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Koramei posted:
Drying and smoking food is pretty simple, and not super time or effort intesive, and said dried food can then be cached. Off the top of my head, I know this done in some PNW groups with salmon, and the climate up there is not ideal for said methods, but it worked. Things get easier in places like the Southwest where the climate would help with preservation. Most foraged foods can dry pretty well if you know what you are doing. Im aware of a possible salt pouch made from an entire Prarie dog, but don't know offhand what that dates too. Many H/G groups rotated through seasonal camps, so its not like they couldn't keep materials cached in/nearby. Groundstone tools often get left behind at camps because gently caress carrying that around if you can just come back for it next year. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 02:17
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wins32767 posted:There is a distinction between saving surplus for the future and then eating it when times are scarse until it runs out and saving surplus for the future and going hungry while there is still food that could be eaten. his claim is that they found saving for the future to be immoral
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Jun 21, 2023 02:20
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IMO, the big change in viewpoint in going to agriculture was not the attitude toward food or its preservation, it was the attitude toward the land. Making a plot of land arable is an enormous amount of effort - clearing trees and digging up roots, clearing rocks, digging irrigation channels, etc. It's not just land any more, it's your land that has been transformed through your own efforts. It becomes something sacred in its own right, as it is what is providing for you and your family. It becomes something to fight and die for.
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Jun 21, 2023 02:23
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Hell, bison jumps are a pretty big example of H/G groups killing an absolute shitton of animals and processing and preserving the meat for long term use.
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Jun 21, 2023 02:30
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Deteriorata posted:IMO, the big change in viewpoint in going to agriculture was not the attitude toward food or its preservation, it was the attitude toward the land. Making a plot of land arable is an enormous amount of effort - clearing trees and digging up roots, clearing rocks, digging irrigation channels, etc. It's not just land any more, it's your land that has been transformed through your own efforts. It becomes something sacred in its own right, as it is what is providing for you and your family. It becomes something to fight and die for. non-sedentary-farmers did plenty of intentional changes to the land. If you want to read a book about North American in particular, I recommend Changes in the Land
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Jun 21, 2023 03:14
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Deteriorata posted:IMO it's a distinction without a difference. If you're reduced to eating your seed corn, you're in trouble no matter what. It buys you a little time, but only delays the inevitable. If you planted it, it would be months before you could reap a harvest anyway. It may be a distinction without a difference for you, but the argument is that it was distinctly not a distinction without a difference to early farmers versus gatherers. It's a fundamentally unknowable question, but as the beneficiary of the perspective of 10 millenia of agricultural practices, I'm not sure that frame is applicable.
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Jun 21, 2023 03:55
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