SCOTUS 2023: Rice pilaf from Louisiana...is that like an ISIS video?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > SCOTUS 2023: Rice pilaf from Louisiana...is that like an ISIS video?

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Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

StratGoatCom posted:

Okay, the last time when they did something this good - the ruling that will likely kill AI image scraping, it was immediately followed by a total horror.

What's coming next?

Stop trying to see patterns in Supreme Court rulings. They can make bad rulings whenever the heck they want, and they can make good rulings whenever the heck they want. There's going to be bad rulings, yes. That's because the Supreme Court has a conservative majority. Just enjoy the few good ones, instead of searching for excuses to hurl yourself immediately back into the vortex of nihilistic despair when a rare good decision comes out.

# ? Jun 8, 2023 17:46

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# ? May 31, 2024 03:26

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Think about it this way- this ruling will move voting patterns incrementally left, which is necessary (but not sufficient) for countering the bullshit rulings later

# ? Jun 8, 2023 17:50

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

AvesPKS posted:

Is it, though? I thought there would be severe, catastrophic consequences if trains stopped running, which is why the proposed strike got so much opposition.

There aren't any reserve military railroad engineers waiting to step in and replace them, right? Seems like a pretty serious vulnerability. What if some bad actor decided to just hire away all the rail engineers into other jobs for more money? Seems more effective at disruption than bombs, in this system we've created.

Yes, it is more important to the system to keep labor disciplined than to make the rail network more resilient if that resiliency has a side effect of improving the relative position of labor. This is exactly what the government made official half a year ago when it gave the rail companies everything they wanted instead of forcing them to build in some redundancy even for national security reasons.

# ? Jun 8, 2023 17:58

Kavros: May 18, 2011; sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

Main Paineframe posted:

Stop trying to see patterns in Supreme Court rulings. They can make bad rulings whenever the heck they want, and they can make good rulings whenever the heck they want. There's going to be bad rulings, yes. That's because the Supreme Court has a conservative majority. Just enjoy the few good ones, instead of searching for excuses to hurl yourself immediately back into the vortex of nihilistic despair when a rare good decision comes out.

I think it is actually broadly true that there were these patterns in court cases over my politically active life. Roberts has probably been the most influential example: he has done work to 'draw down the heat' from controversial rulings, generally worked to space out the things he ideologically believes in with breather periods and sacrificial cases, and had specific areas he would either tiptoe around or sink entirely to prevent the consequences of a total conservative victory on the legitimacy of the court. I think his rulings on obamacare were very likely a perfect example, since he was knowledgeable enough about the consequences to the court of sinking the program entirely and having the stain of a resulting freefall medical crisis on their hands.

I think the patterns that Roberts-style engineering used to create are mostly drawing to the close as he ends up eclipsed by true believers who were more than willing to let the dog catch the car teeth first, but it still leaves lingering suspicion. Like, we KNOW this was in their toolbox, so it's not entirely irrational to wonder what this might be setting up if they've organized among themselves any capacity to keep doing this.

# ? Jun 8, 2023 18:11

The Puppy Bowl: Jan 31, 2013; A dog, in the house.

*woof*

Shear Modulus posted:

Keeping labor disciplined and financially precarious is more important to maintaining the system than timeliness of the trains. If you want an example of a group of employees whose job performance the system actually considers essential to its maintenance and spares no expense in giving them every comfort imaginable, take a look at the police.

Late but as a labor organizer I really need to second this. Once you grok that the status quo is less interested in efficiently growing wealth than it is in increasing the power disparity between the very top and the rest of us a lot of these issues come into focus.

# ? Jun 8, 2023 18:12

Kalman: Jan 17, 2010

Kavros posted:

I think it is actually broadly true that there were these patterns in court cases over my politically active life. Roberts has probably been the most influential example: he has done work to 'draw down the heat' from controversial rulings, generally worked to space out the things he ideologically believes in with breather periods and sacrificial cases, and had specific areas he would either tiptoe around or sink entirely to prevent the consequences of a total conservative victory on the legitimacy of the court. I think his rulings on obamacare were very likely a perfect example, since he was knowledgeable enough about the consequences to the court of sinking the program entirely and having the stain of a resulting freefall medical crisis on their hands.

In a larger sense, yes. But it's definitely not a "release the good ruling so you can release the controversial ruling tomorrow" pattern, it's a "boil the frog slowly" pattern.

e: also the Warhol case still isn't going to kill AI image scraping, so SGC is left with two bad cases in the pattern.

# ? Jun 8, 2023 18:53

StratGoatCom: Aug 6, 2019; Our security is guaranteed by being able to melt the eyeballs of any other forum's denizens at 15 minutes notice

Kalman posted:

In a larger sense, yes. But it's definitely not a "release the good ruling so you can release the controversial ruling tomorrow" pattern, it's a "boil the frog slowly" pattern.

e: also the Warhol case still isn't going to kill AI image scraping, so SGC is left with two bad cases in the pattern.

We've been over this; that they avoided the big music companies was a sign that fair use or those short copies weren't gonna fly even before likely changing the test with fair use into one far less friendly to them; they went for the small artists on account of the fact they thought they wouldn't fight back.

# ? Jun 8, 2023 19:18

Kalman: Jan 17, 2010

StratGoatCom posted:

We've been over this; that they avoided the big music companies was a sign that fair use or those short copies weren't gonna fly even before likely changing the test with fair use into one far less friendly to them; they went for the small artists on account of the fact they thought they wouldn't fight back.

What the gently caress are you talking about? When exactly did we talk about music companies? Are you having a ChatGPT hallucination as we speak?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jun 8, 2023 22:06

AvesPKS: Sep 26, 2004; I don't dance unless I'm totally wasted.

Shear Modulus posted:

Yes, it is more important to the system to keep labor disciplined than to make the rail network more resilient if that resiliency has a side effect of improving the relative position of labor. This is exactly what the government made official half a year ago when it gave the rail companies everything they wanted instead of forcing them to build in some redundancy even for national security reasons.

Fair enough, that does make sense that the US government doesn't take it seriously. So if there are ~32,000 rail engineers in the US, how many would you have to hire away to create a rail crisis? Half? Average salary looks to be around 82k. Just offer them a modest raise and a decent PTO package. Like if Saudi Arabia decided to do this for fun, how much would it cost?

# ? Jun 10, 2023 20:44

Dameius: Apr 3, 2006

~3.2B a year to offer every rail engineer 100k to sit on their rear end and do nothing.

# ? Jun 10, 2023 21:11

Kith: Sep 17, 2009; You never learn anything
by doing it right.

Dameius posted:

~3.2B a year to offer every rail engineer 100k to sit on their rear end and do nothing.

not seeing the problem

# ? Jun 11, 2023 16:25

pencilhands: Aug 20, 2022

Dameius posted:

~3.2B a year to offer every rail engineer 100k to sit on their rear end and do nothing.

wow, I�ve found my new career path. Thanks!

# ? Jun 11, 2023 20:01

AvesPKS: Sep 26, 2004; I don't dance unless I'm totally wasted.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/railroads-offer-paid-sick-leave-better-work-conditions-after-yearslong-efficiency-push-60a6ef02

WSJ posted:

Major US freight railroads are adopting labor-friendly policies such as paid sick leave and predictable shifts to help address long-running staffing shortages that nearly boiled over into a strike last year.

The railroads have reached agreements with unions representing employees such as track workers and machinists to pay for at least four sick days a year. Three companies -- Union Pacific, CSX and Norfolk Southern -- also have signed agreements with unions to offer train crews more predictable rest schedules.
...
In the current round of negotiations with conductors, Norfolk Southern and Union Pacific backed off efforts to reduce train crews to one person, an issue that workers have said could threaten rail safety and their job security. CSX didn't raise crew size issues in recent talks. SMART-D, the union representing conductors, said it is still in talks with BNSF on crew-size requirements.

Things seem to be moving in the right direction. I like how the article views the concessions as merely being nice as opposed to something that will probably benefit the railroads as well.

# ? Jun 12, 2023 22:48

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Dameius posted:

~3.2B a year to offer every rail engineer 100k to sit on their rear end and do nothing.

Now look at how much they've spent on stock buybacks in the last few years to really drive home how profoundly hosed things are.

# ? Jun 13, 2023 01:44

SixFigureSandwich: Oct 30, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Four whole days of paid sick leave, wow such generosity

# ? Jun 13, 2023 10:56

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

This is a pleasant surprise.

https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-native-american-children-adoption-8eee3db1e97cee84a7fdcd98d43df795

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) � The Supreme Court on Thursday preserved the system that gives preference to Native American families in foster care and adoption proceedings of Native children, rejecting a broad attack from some Republican-led states and white families who argued it is based on race.

The court left in place the 1978 Indian Child Welfare Act, which was enacted to address concerns that Native children were being separated from their families and, too frequently, placed in non-Native homes.

Tribal leaders have backed the law as a means of preserving their families, traditions and cultures.

The �issues are complicated� Justice Amy Coney Barrett wrote for a seven-justice majority, but the �bottom line is that we reject all of petitioners� challenges to the statute.�

Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented, with Alito writing that the decision �disserves the rights and interests of these children.�

Congress passed the law in response to the alarming rate at which Native American and Alaska Native children were taken from their homes by public and private agencies.

The law requires states to notify tribes and seek placement with the child�s extended family, members of the child�s tribe or other Native American families.

Three white families, the state of Texas and a small number of other states claim the law is based on race and is unconstitutional under the equal protection clause. They also contend it puts the interests of tribes ahead of children and improperly allows the federal government too much power over adoptions and foster placements, areas that typically are under state control.

The lead plaintiffs in the Supreme Court case � Chad and Jennifer Brackeen of Fort Worth, Texas � adopted a Native American child after a prolonged legal fight with the Navajo Nation, one of the two largest Native American tribes, based in the Southwest. The Brackeens are trying to adopt the boy�s half-sister, now 4, who has lived with them since infancy. The Navajo Nation has opposed that adoption.

More than three-quarters of the 574 federally recognized tribes in the country and nearly two dozen state attorneys general across the political spectrum had called on the high court to uphold the law.

All the children who have been involved in the current case at one point are enrolled or could be enrolled as Navajo, Cherokee, White Earth Band of Ojibwe and Ysleta del Sur Pueblo. Some of the adoptions have been finalized while some are still being challenged.

The high court had twice taken up cases on the Indian Child Welfare Act before, in 1989 and in 2013, that have stirred intense emotion.

Before the Indian Child Welfare Act was enacted, between 25% and 35% of Native American children were being taken from their homes and placed with adoptive families, in foster care or in institutions. Most were placed with white families or in boarding schools in attempts to assimilate them.

Thomas and Alito dissent, of course.

# ? Jun 15, 2023 16:45

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I guess they have to do this before they also simultaneously kill Affirmative Action

# ? Jun 15, 2023 16:54

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

FlamingLiberal posted:

I guess they have to do this before they also simultaneously kill Affirmative Action

Maybe once they do that Clarence Thomas will orgasm to death.

# ? Jun 15, 2023 17:01

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

It�s funny what things have never been squarely ruled on before. This guy from Alabama hacks a Florida company, gets tried and convicted in Florida, and tries to claim that he should be automatically acquitted and cannot be retried because the trial was in the wrong place. And apparently the Court has just� never before said specifically that yes, when you�re tried in the wrong place it doesn�t count, but that doesn�t mean you�re scot free, it just means you have to be retried.

Anyway, the rare tolerable Alito opinion (unanimous).

# ? Jun 15, 2023 17:38

Kavros: May 18, 2011; sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

quote:

Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented, with Alito writing that the decision �disserves the rights and interests of these children.�

how do these two say it does? do they stay vague about it or do they go into horrid detail?

# ? Jun 15, 2023 18:08

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

Kavros posted:

how do these two say it does? do they stay vague about it or do they go into horrid detail?

The usual legal criticism of the the ICWA is that it's racially discriminatory, but there's a secondary, mostly bad-faith argument that it's better for a child to be placed with whatever family will be better able to provide them a healthy (read: wealthy) home environment. This ignores the idea that culture is, y'know, important.

It's functionally identical to residential schools in the "kill the Indian, save the man" result.

# ? Jun 15, 2023 18:25

Thranguy: Apr 21, 2010; Deceitful and black-hearted, perhaps we are. But we would never go against the Code. Well, perhaps for good reasons. But mostly never.

Kavros posted:

how do these two say it does? do they stay vague about it or do they go into horrid detail?

They don't really have to, the ICWA explicitly says to place with Indian parents even when a court would find it not in the best interest of the child so the question of whether that's even possible is out of scope.
The dissent is mostly arguing about early American history with the Gorsuch concurrance.

# ? Jun 15, 2023 18:40

Fighting Trousers: May 17, 2011; Does this excite you, girl?

Lemniscate Blue posted:

This is a pleasant surprise.

https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-native-american-children-adoption-8eee3db1e97cee84a7fdcd98d43df795

Thomas and Alito dissent, of course.

As a resident of Oklahoma, this is great news, because our shithead governor is constantly picking stupid fights with the tribes, and anything that bolsters tribal sovereignty is a black eye to his babby's first fascism agenda.

# ? Jun 15, 2023 19:42

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

Fighting Trousers posted:

As a resident of Oklahoma, this is great news, because our shithead governor is constantly picking stupid fights with the tribes, and anything that bolsters tribal sovereignty is a black eye to his babby's first fascism agenda.

Yeah, I have a friend who is Cherokee and works for the tribal government. She *hates* Stitt, all the more so because he plays on his Cherokee citizenship (likely falsified by his great-grandfather way back in the Dawes Rolls days) to gently caress over the tribes.

# ? Jun 15, 2023 20:04

Fighting Trousers: May 17, 2011; Does this excite you, girl?

Every time Stitt plays the "as a Cherokee I" card, you can picture Chuck Hoskins making a :jerkbag:

motion.

# ? Jun 15, 2023 21:02

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

So does he have any actual evidence for his claim or is he basically Elizabeth Warren but the media gives him a pass because he's a Republican and a guy?

# ? Jun 15, 2023 21:38

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

Evil Fluffy posted:

So does he have any actual evidence for his claim or is he basically Elizabeth Warren but the media gives him a pass because he's a Republican and a guy?

His great-grandfather Francis Dawson (along with a number of Dawson's relatives) was put on the tribal rolls from the time, and was granted land in what is now Oklahoma as a result. It's strongly suspected that he bribed somebody to get that, and some years ago the Cherokee Nation tried to get Great Grand-pappy Francis disenrolled but there's really no mechanism to do that.

https://www.hcn.org/articles/indigenous-affairs-the-cherokee-nation-once-fought-to-disenroll-gov-kevin-stitts-ancestors

tl;dr: Stitt's a motherfucker from a long line of motherfuckers.

Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 15, 2023

# ? Jun 15, 2023 22:11

Levitate: Sep 30, 2005; randy newman voice

YOU'VE GOT A LAFRENI�RE IN ME

Lemniscate Blue posted:

The usual legal criticism of the the ICWA is that it's racially discriminatory, but there's a secondary, mostly bad-faith argument that it's better for a child to be placed with whatever family will be better able to provide them a healthy (read: wealthy) home environment. This ignores the idea that culture is, y'know, important.

It's functionally identical to residential schools in the "kill the Indian, save the man" result.

Pretty sure george F Will wrote an opinion piece about this decision using that argument but lol if I�m gonna read it

# ? Jun 17, 2023 16:49

Buschmaki: Dec 26, 2012; ‿︵‿︵‿︵‿Lean Addict︵‿︵‿︵‿

Will my student loans be forgiven?

# ? Jun 17, 2023 16:57

Vahakyla: May 3, 2013

Buschmaki posted:

Will my student loans be forgiven?

I'm placing my hopes on ACB sounding pretty skeptical of the standing, and by this:

https://www.theguardian.com/educati...ovember%202022.

Mohela complaining that they don't wanna be included.

# ? Jun 17, 2023 23:43

pencilhands: Aug 20, 2022

Buschmaki posted:

Will my student loans be forgiven?

My outside hope is that the SCOTUS crazies realize how unpopular they are atm and doing something like this would push them over the top.

# ? Jun 18, 2023 00:07

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

It should be thrown out on standing but I�m not counting on that

# ? Jun 18, 2023 00:17

Murgos: Oct 21, 2010

FlamingLiberal posted:

It should be thrown out on standing but I�m not counting on that

Isn�t the argument a ridiculous, �I�m not eligible for this relief and if that devil Biden had performed a open call for comment, which he was not required to do, then I could have told him that and maybe he wouldn�t have implemented it quite this way but I probably still wouldn�t have been eligible since I only have private loans. So therefore I am harmed because I wasn�t denied by a different mechanism�?

# ? Jun 18, 2023 15:49

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Murgos posted:

Isn�t the argument a ridiculous, �I�m not eligible for this relief and if that devil Biden had performed a open call for comment, which he was not required to do, then I could have told him that and maybe he wouldn�t have implemented it quite this way but I probably still wouldn�t have been eligible since I only have private loans. So therefore I am harmed because I wasn�t denied by a different mechanism�?

It's some stupid thing about a few people not being able to opt-out of the forgiveness I think

# ? Jun 18, 2023 16:31

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

FlamingLiberal posted:

It should be thrown out on standing but I�m not counting on that

The SCOTUS conservatives have made it crystal clear that standing is irrelevant to them and they will play godking if they wish it because nobody's going to stop them.

# ? Jun 18, 2023 17:24

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

Alito wrote a WSJ op-ed explaining why riding on someone who is definitely not your buddy�s private jet is cool.

https://twitter.com/leahlitman/status/1671296619537391617?s=46&t=v69FFc9gmilk6I-vYnAGzw

# ? Jun 21, 2023 01:44

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Those are a lot of words for "we'll do what we want, gently caress you for questioning us."

# ? Jun 21, 2023 01:53

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Sometimes I feel like the most insufferable thing about these people is that even when they win they can't be happy.

# ? Jun 21, 2023 02:18

Captain_Maclaine: Sep 30, 2001; Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

FlamingLiberal posted:

Sometimes I feel like the most insufferable thing about these people is that even when they win they can't be happy.

They're not happy when they win, they're happy when everyone else loses.

# ? Jun 21, 2023 04:28

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# ? May 31, 2024 03:26

Groovelord Neato: Dec 6, 2014

FlamingLiberal posted:

Sometimes I feel like the most insufferable thing about these people is that even when they win they can't be happy.

Leonard Leo saying this is on another level:

quote:

He added that the public should wonder whether ProPublica�s coverage is �bait for reeling in more dark money from woke billionaires who want to damage this Supreme Court and remake it into one that will disregard the law by rubber stamping their disordered and highly unpopular cultural preferences.�

# ? Jun 21, 2023 14:50

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > SCOTUS 2023: Rice pilaf from Louisiana...is that like an ISIS video?

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