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Buff Hardback posted:Eat my shorts please and thank you https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-maker-rivian-adopt-teslas-charging-standard-2023-06-20/?utm_source=reddit.com Consider your shorts eaten.
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Jun 21, 2023 04:57
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FlapYoJacks posted:Consider your shorts eaten. Thank you for your prompt service. On a more related note, I’m super happy to see them switching over. I hate CCS with a firey passion, and Rivian is on my 5 year goals list tied with Polestar, but I could see which way the wind was blowing, and it wasn’t blowing in CCS’s favor.
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Jun 21, 2023 05:39
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QuarkJets posted:No way, really? Teslas don’t give you regenerative braking from the brake pedal? you have to be joking lol, agree with quarkjets here
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Jun 21, 2023 06:03
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Infinotize posted:Yeah teslas don’t which I’m saying is dumb Thats because you cant "turn off" regen from the accel pedal anyway so why would you also need it on brake? That makes no sense.
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Jun 21, 2023 06:47
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ROFLBOT posted:Thats because you cant "turn off" regen from the accel pedal anyway so why would you also need it on brake? That makes no sense. What if you had one pedal driving turned off? Then do you get regen from the brakes?
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Jun 21, 2023 07:05
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You cant turn off one pedal driving, thats part of the reason their efficiency and range is high Like why would you want to do that, dont buy a Tesla i guess? ROFLBOT fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 07:16
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I don't think range has anything to do with one pedal driving, you can get just as much regenerative braking with the brake pedal. Or at least you can in other vehicles, didn't realize Tesla locks you into OPD
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Jun 21, 2023 07:54
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ROFLBOT posted:You cant turn off one pedal driving, thats part of the reason their efficiency and range is high No, it isn’t. If the brake pedal let you regen you could recapture just as much energy modulating the brakes. If anything removing the ability to coast is actually less efficient in certain conditions. You need to think about this a little more. quote:Like why would you want to do that, dont buy a Tesla i guess? I mean, obviously I don’t care who uses one pedal or not my point is the car should allow you to use regen however you want which is how every car but tesla works
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Jun 21, 2023 07:58
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I’m actually surprised to hear that the brake pedals involves any regen at all. When I was first researching this EV poo poo I was of the assumption that one pedal was the only way regen happened. I wonder what’s the efficiency difference between one pedal driving and brake pedal driving.
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Jun 21, 2023 08:02
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The way a Polestar works is you get some regen braking anytime that you brake, there's a little bar on the instrument panel that shows what % of your braking power is coming from regen brakes vs physical brakes. If you're coming to a stop at a light like a normal person you probably won't get any physical braking at all, but any harder than that and you'll notice the physical brakes are being used (there's good color contrast between the two types so it's very easy to notice). One pedal driving is optional and just lets you add extra deceleration as you take pressure off the accelerator, never enough to kick in the physical brakes but the regen braking alone is pretty powerful at the max setting. A separate setting lets you designate whether you want the car to creep forward when you let your foot off the brake, and how much to creep (I believe Tesla M3 has this setting as well). I like to have maximum OPD and no creep, that feels pretty good to me personally but a lot of people are probably pretty used to their vehicle creeping forward I've driven a Kona EV and it works basically the same way, you can turn off OPD and you get regen braking blended with physical braking when you use the brake pedal, with the physical brakes only kicking in when you're really firmly pressing on the pedal. Couldn't figure out how to turn off creep, though - creepy rear end car
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Jun 21, 2023 08:14
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Infinotize posted:No, it isn’t. If the brake pedal let you regen you could recapture just as much energy modulating the brakes. If anything removing the ability to coast is actually less efficient in certain conditions. You need to think about this a little more. You “coast” by modulating the accelerator. It’s not a binary switch, you can find a position that allows you to effectively freewheel with zero energy consumed and without regen.
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Jun 21, 2023 08:15
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Infinotize posted:No, it isn’t. If the brake pedal let you regen you could recapture just as much energy modulating the brakes. If anything removing the ability to coast is actually less efficient in certain conditions. You need to think about this a little more. I mean you cant turn off OPD which means you cant turn off regen which is why efficiency/range is high. Tesla even makes the point of saying switching the driving mode to creep or roll reduces efficiency over Hold which is the only mode that applies regen down to stationary. ROFLBOT fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 08:20
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Vegetable posted:I’m actually surprised to hear that the brake pedals involves any regen at all. When I was first researching this EV poo poo I was of the assumption that one pedal was the only way regen happened. I wonder what’s the efficiency difference between one pedal driving and brake pedal driving. Every stellantis electric car has two regen settings: minimal(D) and stronger(B). Minimal act as a conventional automatic with coasting and regen kicks in only if you press the brake pedals(strong braking will stop the regen and do mechanical). Stronger acts sorta as a mechanized manual, with no coasting and regen stopping the car from rolling downhill(the regen is so strong that you will only activate mechanical brakes in emergency situations). No one-pedal mode. Most cars that I know that lack one pedal work this way, sometimes with regen strength selected via flappy selectors on the steering.
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Jun 21, 2023 08:42
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It reduces efficiency for tesla because they don't do blended braking. Obviously reducing your maximum regen decreases you maximum possible efficiency, but OPD is not a reason why teslas are relatively efficient. Blended braking does the exact same thing as OPD except full regen for one is foot off the pedals and for the other it's pressing the brake down some amount. OPD is one of the dumbest hills to die on, and one that people seem to latch on to because it's seen as an EV-only thing and therefore it must be the best. At the end of the day, the person driving is going to want to accelerate or decelerate at the rate they want to and will input whatever is necessary to achieve that goal.
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Jun 21, 2023 08:43
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If OPD (E: alone) made EVs extremely efficient, every make would mandate it, Teslas are extremely efficient because of their permanent magnet motor design and very low drag coefficient.
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Jun 21, 2023 08:45
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ROFLBOT fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 10:29
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gwrtheyrn posted:It reduces efficiency for tesla because they don't do blended braking. https://www.notateslaapp.com/tesla-reference/1051/how-tesla-s-regenerative-braking-works quote:Regen, as commonly referred to, makes it possible to drive a Tesla and never touch the brake pedal (along with some brake blending for slow speeds), Teslas also blend friction braking when the battery is too full or too cold to accept regen. quote:but OPD is not a reason why teslas are relatively efficient. ROFLBOT fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Jun 21, 2023 |
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Jun 21, 2023 10:40
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Do you not understand that all EVs have regenerative braking, regardless of implementation? That many models of EV have systems that make the accelerator function exactly like a Teslas, the only difference being that regenerative and friction brakes are also blended on the brake pedal? That none of these cars are as efficient as their Tesla counterparts?
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Jun 21, 2023 11:44
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The efficiency of Teslas comes from aerodynamic design, motor design, drivetrain design, and stupid door handles. Regen braking adds efficiency when you have to slow down faster than what coasting would give you, it doesn't matter which pedal makes the car regenerative brake. However, if your goal is to drive as efficiently as possible, letting off the gas giving you max regen with no friction brake is useful for not wasting energy on heating up brake discs, so in that sense a separation between friction braking and regen braking is useful. Personally I really like one pedal driving, it makes me feel like I'm always connected to what the car is doing.
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Jun 21, 2023 12:09
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One of the most efficient cars out there (Hyundai IONIQ Electric 2021) doesn't even have real one-pedal driving. Plus the EPA tests the default settings on cars, not the theoretical most efficient one. And the IONIQ defaults to 2 pedal mode not its quasi 1-pedal mode so that'd be what they tested.
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Jun 21, 2023 12:24
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Elviscat posted:I had a rental Corolla a couple weeks ago, and it was unnerving how when you let off the gas it just wouldn't slow down at all, 'cause of the 90 speed transmission and the economy gearing. automatic Corollas have shipped with CVTs for like a decade at this point
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Jun 21, 2023 13:22
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My Harley LiveWire has regenerative braking on the throttle (and it's adjustable), but not on the brakes. I absolutely do not want regenerative braking on the brakes either; brakes on motorcycles should be entirely free of any sort of interference from electrical wizardry (beyond ABS). It doesn't regen a significant amount of range, so it's not something I care much for beyond adjusting it to the correct feel that I want for what is, effectively, engine braking.
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Jun 21, 2023 14:05
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If I was going to consider stepping up beyond the mid-range price point of 40-50k, where I'm looking at Model 3, Polestar2, Id.4 etc, and into the 60-100k range what should I be looking at? I feel like specs wise the Model S is in the sweet spot given the inventory discounts right now around 85k-ish. The Lyriq looks ok in the 60-70k range but honestly it just strikes me as another boring crossover. I could also look at sportier stuff like the porsche Taycan but I'd be heavily sacrificing range...
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Jun 21, 2023 14:11
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drhankmccoyphd posted:If I was going to consider stepping up beyond the mid-range price point of 40-50k, where I'm looking at Model 3, Polestar2, Id.4 etc, and into the 60-100k range what should I be looking at? I feel like specs wise the Model S is in the sweet spot given the inventory discounts right now around 85k-ish. The Lyriq looks ok in the 60-70k range but honestly it just strikes me as another boring crossover. I could also look at sportier stuff like the porsche Taycan but I'd be heavily sacrificing range... What about the Mercedes EQE (sedan or SUV version)? There are other things in the mid-range area you didn't list. The Hyundai Ioniq 5/6 are nice and fun to drive -- especially with AWD -- and the Kia EV6 has a GT model if you want something that feels (much) sportier. Someone in this thread just bought one recently.
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Jun 21, 2023 14:22
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We're looking at our next car purchase and have been considering an electric. How feasible is owning one without a driveway/garage to install a charger? We live in north NJ so there are a fair amount of chargers at shopping centers etc. I usually park in the street outside my house, but it's a 50 foot run across the yard and a sidewalk to the closest outlet.
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Jun 21, 2023 14:55
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Toebone posted:We're looking at our next car purchase and have been considering an electric. How feasible is owning one without a driveway/garage to install a charger? We live in north NJ so there are a fair amount of chargers at shopping centers etc. I usually park in the street outside my house, but it's a 50 foot run across the yard and a sidewalk to the closest outlet. Think about how often you go to the gas station right now. Double that, and assume each stop will take 15-25 minutes instead of the current 5-10. If that sounds okay, go for it. EVs are still a tough sell if you can't easily charge at home. That's a huge part of the convenience for most people.
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Jun 21, 2023 15:00
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Toebone posted:We're looking at our next car purchase and have been considering an electric. How feasible is owning one without a driveway/garage to install a charger? We live in north NJ so there are a fair amount of chargers at shopping centers etc. I usually park in the street outside my house, but it's a 50 foot run across the yard and a sidewalk to the closest outlet. It's possible to get an outlet or charger installed streetside, though it will probably be expensive. There is a tax credit you can get for 30% of the cost (up to $1,000) for the installation. https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/ev-charger-tax-credit/ There may be permits or such you'd need to pull to install such a charger though.
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Jun 21, 2023 15:02
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Toebone posted:We're looking at our next car purchase and have been considering an electric. How feasible is owning one without a driveway/garage to install a charger? We live in north NJ so there are a fair amount of chargers at shopping centers etc. I usually park in the street outside my house, but it's a 50 foot run across the yard and a sidewalk to the closest outlet. I charge using the mobile cable that came with my leaf from a standard 3 prong outlet in my garage or on the front deck. I don't commute so it's fine to add 40-60 miles of range overnight. I've had the car for almost 3 years and never had an issue. There's a few free L2 chargers near me, I can point you to in NNJ. DC fast chargers are around too but I don't use them very often. edit: misread your post. I guess it would be super annoying if i had to use the L2 charger exclusively.
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Jun 21, 2023 15:21
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Toebone posted:We're looking at our next car purchase and have been considering an electric. How feasible is owning one without a driveway/garage to install a charger? We live in north NJ so there are a fair amount of chargers at shopping centers etc. I usually park in the street outside my house, but it's a 50 foot run across the yard and a sidewalk to the closest outlet. Do you tend to shop your groceries at a place that has a charger? Do you do other errands at places with chargers? Are the chargers consistently free and functional? What kind of chargers are they? How long is your daily commute? The answer is going to depend on these factors. If you have a 10 mile daily commute and you regularly spend an hour at a gym with a 7kW charger outside, you're all good. If you have a 50 mile commute and your weekly grocery run of 15 minutes is the only time you can conveniently charge, full electric is not the answer for you yet.
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Jun 21, 2023 15:27
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WhiteHowler posted:What about the Mercedes EQE (sedan or SUV version)? Yeah, there's no shortage of mid-priced options up to say 60k. I did just peep out the mercedes offerings but again I'm struck with the impression that I'm paying as much or a bit more for a sedan comparable to a model s but that looks less sporty, has less range, arguably less tech features but probably better interior. I did look at the Ioniq 6 which I did like but I'd wait on the model 3 refresh before making a decision. In the end, it sounds like the new model 3 is going to be a model s junior and if I can afford it I think I'd rather just get a model s.
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Jun 21, 2023 15:31
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movax posted:Holy poo poo can we talk about this more??? SlowBloke posted:Every stellantis electric car has two regen settings: minimal(D) and stronger(B). Minimal act as a conventional automatic with coasting and regen kicks in only if you press the brake pedals(strong braking will stop the regen and do mechanical). Stronger acts sorta as a mechanized manual, with no coasting and regen stopping the car from rolling downhill(the regen is so strong that you will only activate mechanical brakes in emergency situations). Toebone posted:We're looking at our next car purchase and have been considering an electric. How feasible is owning one without a driveway/garage to install a charger? We live in north NJ so there are a fair amount of chargers at shopping centers etc. I usually park in the street outside my house, but it's a 50 foot run across the yard and a sidewalk to the closest outlet. Being able to charge somewhere you regularly park your vehicle for extended periods, be it home, work, or whatever else, means that many drivers just don't have to think about charging unless they're taking a long trip. The car just ends up getting fully charged every day without the human needing to go out of their way to make it happen beyond remembering to plug in when they park. You can certainly make it work, but I'd put that in the "if you have to ask, you shouldn't do it" category. That sort of thing is more for the people who have actively decided they are going to have an EV for ideological reasons.
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Jun 21, 2023 16:07
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wolrah posted:You may want to take a look at the date of the article. IMO, OP is a pretty good candidate for a PHEV. Can take advantage of opportunistic charging, but doesn't have to plan their life around it. If it turns out they can't make use of a charger just use it like a hybrid. I have street charging and I got a PHEV for this reason.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:15
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drhankmccoyphd posted:Yeah, there's no shortage of mid-priced options up to say 60k. I did just peep out the mercedes offerings but again I'm struck with the impression that I'm paying as much or a bit more for a sedan comparable to a model s but that looks less sporty, has less range, arguably less tech features but probably better interior. I did look at the Ioniq 6 which I did like but I'd wait on the model 3 refresh before making a decision. In the end, it sounds like the new model 3 is going to be a model s junior and if I can afford it I think I'd rather just get a model s. I mean, if you don't have any moral objection to buying a Tesla, it's probably the best value short of getting a Bolt or waiting for GM's 2024 lineup. Those are probably all going to fall in your "boring" bucket though. I love my Ioniq 6. At the time I was able to get a good price in the color I wanted, so I went for it and have no regrets. But if I had to do it in the future, I'd definitely spring for the AWD version -- it's so much more fun to drive (and the RWD is still pretty fun).
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Jun 21, 2023 17:41
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mobby_6kl posted:I only drive 2-stroke so only free-wheeling for me I had a SAAB 96 for a time.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:49
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wolrah posted:You can certainly make it work, but I'd put that in the "if you have to ask, you shouldn't do it" category. That sort of thing is more for the people who have actively decided they are going to have an EV for ideological reasons. This is a good take that should be added to the OP.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:52
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Toebone posted:We're looking at our next car purchase and have been considering an electric. How feasible is owning one without a driveway/garage to install a charger? We live in north NJ so there are a fair amount of chargers at shopping centers etc. I usually park in the street outside my house, but it's a 50 foot run across the yard and a sidewalk to the closest outlet. It depends and would need a bit of planning. How many miles do you currently drive in a week and how consistent is your routine? My wife's commute + shopping would require one 30 minute session on a fast charger per week, easily taken care of at the fast charger outside one of the grocery stores while she's shopping. Some in this thread have commutes that need daily recharging. I don't see how that could work without home or charging at work. Most people have fairly predictable routines but if you don't or you're the type of person who coasts into gas stations on fumes do not get an EV. Take a look at Plugshare and see how close the plugs are to places you normally go to. I could probably survive without driveway charging if Costco or Home Depot put in chargers but otherwise no thank you.
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Jun 21, 2023 18:17
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Toebone posted:We're looking at our next car purchase and have been considering an electric. How feasible is owning one without a driveway/garage to install a charger? We live in north NJ so there are a fair amount of chargers at shopping centers etc. I usually park in the street outside my house, but it's a 50 foot run across the yard and a sidewalk to the closest outlet. tbh I haven't charged in my garage in like 3 months, but YMMV. My vehicle came with 2 years of free EA charging and there are free L2 chargers all over my area (the mall, a movie theater, two different grocery stores, and a few random ones). Check plugshare, see what's available for you and maybe cruise by just to check it out. If you can charge while you're buying groceries or whatever then it's great. Otherwise, I think it's too inconvenient to have to make routine charging stops
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Jun 21, 2023 20:02
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I wouldn’t wish EV ownership without reliable charging at home/work even against my enemies. EVs are supposed to be more convenient than ICE ones, IMO.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:11
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Nitrousoxide posted:IMO, OP is a pretty good candidate for a PHEV. Can take advantage of opportunistic charging, but doesn't have to plan their life around it. If it turns out they can't make use of a charger just use it like a hybrid. I have street charging and I got a PHEV for this reason.
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Jun 21, 2023 23:00
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Nfcknblvbl posted:I wouldn’t wish EV ownership without reliable charging at home/work even against my enemies. EVs are supposed to be more convenient than ICE ones, IMO. This. With at home (or work) charging, EVs become significantly more convenient than ICE vehicles. But without them, they become significantly less convenient than ICE vehicles. Something to remember is that pretty much all EVs will gradually consume battery even when they are parked, and extreme weather greatly increases the consumption even if you aren't using it. There is also self discharge, batteries slowly lose charge over time and EVs are no different. Also some of them have standby services that consume battery if they are on (Tesla's Sentry Mode security system for instance), which run down the battery even faster because just being "awake" to power those standby features may consume 300w or more parked.
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Jun 21, 2023 23:04
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