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the real problem with trash is that in the webtoon, all of the baby animals are super fugly.
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Jun 20, 2023 06:08
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There's also the trope of 'System or Gods (chomping down on popcorn while spying on the MC) spamming notifications and messages in third person.' that seems to crop up now and then. It's so strange, it seems to usually be used as another vector for powering up the MC, or just the author back-patting themselves for the MC doing something cool or whatever. It's very curious and kinda feels unecessary a lot of the time. But maybe there's more back-and-forth in the novels they adapt? Occasionally they do push the MC towards specific goals, but often it's just 'The Illustrious King really liked how you smacked that dude in the balls. Your cheat skill S+++ has been upgraded to ☐■☐■■■ +++ -- ++++++++, you can now sneeze and accidentally kill god.'
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Jun 20, 2023 07:20
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Clarste posted:The serious answer is that they're all copying it from the same stock background library. I've noticed that a lot of villainess manhwa does what I like to call asset-driven worldbuilding, where (I forget the title but this is an actual one I've read, not a funny made-up example) they've clearly been isekaied to some kind of analogue to medieval Europe, but for some reason the nighttime festivals are Korean festivals, and if they want to go to another province they inexplicably are able to ride a modern bullet train.
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Jun 20, 2023 08:27
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KittyEmpress posted:I get really tired of stories that are like 'I'm fated to die so I have to panic and keep avoiding every death flag' even as they clearly have become either super strong or friends with everyone who is meant to one day kill them, or both. I was reading this one where the guy becomes the villain because his family is mean to him and his arranged marriage fiance he never talks to gets stolen by the hero, so he gets kicked out from his family, breaks off his arranged marriage, and becomes an adventurer. He divorces himself from every single plot point that turned him evil, but he constantly worries in every chapter that one day he'll just suddenly decide that, you know what, I'm evil now, gotta go do some genocides. I swear it's like he thought he would stub his toe, have a complete personality change, and curse the world he was born into.
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Jun 20, 2023 09:23
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SubNat posted:There's also the trope of 'System or Gods (chomping down on popcorn while spying on the MC) spamming notifications and messages in third person.' that seems to crop up now and then. Sometimes it’s done okay. When the gods/constellations/whatever are powerful forces manipulating mortals to advance their own unknowable objectives and agendas. Other times it’s trash when the constellations are basically twitch chat losers who either constantly astonished by the MC or just get scammed over and over.
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Jun 20, 2023 12:29
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it's a really bad idea. there's nothing interesting about a streamer who pauses every 30 seconds to genuflect to the chat for donations. it's also impossible to read any halfway active stream chat in real time, so why don't i inflict this incomprehensible spam on my characters while they fight monsters? the only benefit is that it pads the word count for minimal effort, which really matters on some wn sites. the livestream conceit is even worse when it isn't mythological figures watching, but rather other players. how do all of these anonymous randos have time and money to burn on this poo poo when no important character ever does? "hmm, i could upgrade my +1 thingamajig to +2 to improve my chances of survival, but instead i'll watch a newbie die horribly (then get surprised because they're a regressor)."
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Jun 20, 2023 15:54
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You're right it is high time to write a novel from the perspective of a cheat item twitch viewer who has unlimited magical gifts he can give to the streamers.
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Jun 20, 2023 16:23
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nrook posted:I’ve definitely seen random slavery in manhwa; the heroine of Death Is the Only Ending for the Villainess bought a slave out of nowhere and made me sad. At least I haven’t seen a series that isn’t aware that owning slaves is morally bad and not something a good person should do. but definitely not to the degree absurdly of how Japanese MC are so cool with the idea a la When in Rome ...
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Jun 20, 2023 16:24
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EVIL Gibson posted:but definitely not to the degree absurdly of how Japanese MC are so cool with the idea a la When in Rome ... I saw one where a game designer got isekai'd into her own game and had to go to a slave market and she almost threw up and was like "why the actual gently caress did I put this in the game what is wrong with me?"
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Jun 20, 2023 16:52
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Elite posted:Sometimes it’s done okay. When the gods/constellations/whatever are powerful forces manipulating mortals to advance their own unknowable objectives and agendas. I like the one what is it called? "Return to Player" Where he won, but he got the bad ending as the sole survivor and went back to make things better the second time around, Where his actions actually cause changes in the script that he has to deal with, and even though he is drat powerful via knowing things in advance and knowing how to do things properly, he can still get utterly wrecked by you know Forgetting to give his yandere bloodcrazed berserker girlfriend sufficient headpats. KittyEmpress posted:Trash is annoying because the MC gets all these op treasures and surrounds himself in the strongest people and still acts like a pitiful coward expecting his death if it becomes open combat ever. (at least as far as I saw) constantly trying to fight against death flags he's long since surpassed in strength. This one is also good, the MC gets to be strong but not overwhelmingly so and also the take on elves and orcs in the story is fantastic.
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Jun 20, 2023 18:19
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Clarste posted:The way Korean isekais treat slavery is that it's a tragic backstory for the protagonists to overcome. So what happened there (and has actually happened in a few others I read too) is that the reincarnated lead knows ahead of time that this particular slave will grow up to be a celebrated hero/love interest, and wants to get in their good graces early by buying and freeing them. The heroine in Death is the Only Ending is just too much of a coward to free him afterward because she assumes everyone in the world wants to kill her. Honestly she's kind of a terrible person generally. yeah I don't think it makes the work morally compromised or anything, having your dubious protagonist do bad things is obviously totally reasonable. very different from the weird thing that shows up in some japanese isekai where the fiction itself doesn't seem aware that slavery is bad KittyEmpress posted:I get really tired of stories that are like 'I'm fated to die so I have to panic and keep avoiding every death flag' even as they clearly have become either super strong or friends with everyone who is meant to one day kill them, or both. this particular concept is funny because it really got started in comedies, which can provide the simple and elegant solution of "the main character is very dumb". I agree though that it's kinda played out, especially when it's overemphasized. even reika kisshouin spent her days largely stressing out over her own ridiculous self-inflicted problems, not the problems of her fated downfall
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Jun 20, 2023 23:33
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Brought To You By posted:New chapter of Yomei Nikagetsu no Isekai Kenkouhou Its absolutely going to be him throwing the moon and the booklet spelling out and reading “#1 The Moon” and croaking shortly thereafter
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Jun 21, 2023 00:35
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NinjaDebugger posted:I saw one where a game designer got isekai'd into her own game and had to go to a slave market and she almost threw up and was like "why the actual gently caress did I put this in the game what is wrong with me?" Which one was this? That actually sounds interesting in a reflective "WTF was I thinking?" Kind of way.
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Jun 21, 2023 00:51
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doomrider7 posted:Which one was this? That actually sounds interesting in a reflective "WTF was I thinking?" Kind of way. "Step Aside, I Will Choose the Ending", I think. She buys two extremely important slaves, and then gives them the means to free all the others there, it hasn't gone far since then and whatever other slavery there is isn't reflected on particularly.
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Jun 21, 2023 02:40
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SubNat posted:There's also the trope of 'System or Gods (chomping down on popcorn while spying on the MC) spamming notifications and messages in third person.' that seems to crop up now and then. It can be done well. It gives the obligatory System the MC has some much needed character instead of being a stat screen which inevitably becomes needlessly inflated as the story progresses.
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Jun 21, 2023 06:39
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just about everyone who starts a wn with very detailed stat boxes ends up either abandoning either the boxes or the wn itself. even if they find ways to automate it, it's a lot of work! there was also a very short lived wn where the author included detailed combat logs, like "x struck the y for 10 damage", but they went on for ages and there was absolutely nothing interesting about them. no one wants to read that poo poo in a mmo, much less a work of fiction. i say short lived because the author got really mad that anyone complained about their tedious slog of a wn and quit in a huff a dozen chapters in.
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Jun 21, 2023 15:21
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:just about everyone who starts a wn with very detailed stat boxes ends up either abandoning either the boxes or the wn itself. even if they find ways to automate it, it's a lot of work! there was also a very short lived wn where the author included detailed combat logs, like "x struck the y for 10 damage", but they went on for ages and there was absolutely nothing interesting about them. no one wants to read that poo poo in a mmo, much less a work of fiction. i say short lived because the author got really mad that anyone complained about their tedious slog of a wn and quit in a huff a dozen chapters in. Good, the less of it the better. I was listening to the Sword Dad LN on audio and the stat boxes were insufferable. Counter-point: they're good for shaking up the bad guys (Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka?) 
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Jun 21, 2023 15:49
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Keeping ongoing updated stat boxes in an audiobook sounds like an absolutely hellishly terrible idea
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Jun 21, 2023 16:00
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Lord Awkward posted:Keeping ongoing updated stat boxes in an audiobook sounds like an absolutely hellishly terrible idea In this case it was Kindle text-to-audio, so it was also robotic and poorly parsed.
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Jun 21, 2023 16:14
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Myok posted:In this case it was Kindle text-to-audio, so it was also robotic and poorly parsed. lmao blink twice if you're being held against your will and forced to listen to it
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Jun 21, 2023 16:28
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Is 'The Plot/Authorial Intent is a real, antagonistic force working against me, regardless if I've personally seen any evidence of it" more common in Chinese/Korean Villainess novels and Manhua/wha than in the Japanese novels/manga? Or is this just selection bias/ poor observation on my part? The latter seem more to be on the side that the Plot is just the result of the setup of the world and the interactions of the people in it?
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Jun 21, 2023 17:09
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I never read stat boxes in isekai. If there's something important to them the author should point it out in the dialog or internal monologue. Single lines about important new skills obtained or whatever are *acceptable*
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Jun 21, 2023 17:17
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maltesh posted:Is 'The Plot/Authorial Intent is a real, antagonistic force working against me, regardless if I've personally seen any evidence of it" more common in Chinese/Korean Villainess novels and Manhua/wha than in the Japanese novels/manga? I’ve seen plot enforcement in a few Japanese light novels too. In my experience the main difference is that it tends to be taken less seriously, just because the Japanese novels have way less drama in general.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:34
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maltesh posted:Is 'The Plot/Authorial Intent is a real, antagonistic force working against me, regardless if I've personally seen any evidence of it" more common in Chinese/Korean Villainess novels and Manhua/wha than in the Japanese novels/manga? I mean the ur-example of this is 'My Next Life as a Villainess: All paths lead to DOOM', but its played entirely for comedy because Katarina is denser than a neutron star. I haven't really seen any that play it straight outside of the 'Please bully me Villainess!' one where its mostly a setup for the author's fetish of having the reincarnated girl reluctantly 'bully' the waay too into it heroine.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:39
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maltesh posted:Is 'The Plot/Authorial Intent is a real, antagonistic force working against me, regardless if I've personally seen any evidence of it" more common in Chinese/Korean Villainess novels and Manhua/wha than in the Japanese novels/manga? Not exactly the same thing but in Mynoghra the next set of isekai antagonists are a DM and a player from a pen and paper RPG. The DM has the ability to manipulate dice rolls, tweak the "plot" and make house rules.
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Jun 21, 2023 18:06
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Zore posted:I mean the ur-example of this is 'My Next Life as a Villainess: All paths lead to DOOM', but its played entirely for comedy because Katarina is denser than a neutron star. I haven't really seen any that play it straight outside of the 'Please bully me Villainess!' one where its mostly a setup for the author's fetish of having the reincarnated girl reluctantly 'bully' the waay too into it heroine. There are a bunch that play it completely straight. The Villainess Must Die, the plot will absolutely gently caress your poo poo up if you try to avoid certain things, the latest I've seen is that she is absolutely not supposed to be leaving town at a given point and a sudden storm blows in and closes every route away. Beware the Villainess, which is done and was fantastic, the plot was an actual force AND the author intent literally showed up as the final boss, essentially, and the whole thing is basically a battle for the right of fanfiction AUs to exist.
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Jun 21, 2023 18:51
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I Became a Slave in Another World (sob) and to make matters worse, My Master is a Black-Hearted Elf Queen! (But She’s Super Hot. (note: v. impt.)) I’m Pretty Useless, So I’m Getting Barked At Left, Right, and Centre, but the ORC I’m rooming with is full of good vibes, and the ELF in the Village is pretty cute too, so on the whole, I have to say that I’m actually quite enjoying myself here. updated! I don't know what happened to the previous upload, but the first chapter's been around for a while, and I guess just got reuploaded recently. well now there's a chapter two, and it's good to see it's not a one-trick pony. ...I accidentally typoed that as one-truck pony at first.
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Jun 22, 2023 00:32
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NinjaDebugger posted:There are a bunch that play it completely straight. The Villainess Must Die, the plot will absolutely gently caress your poo poo up if you try to avoid certain things, the latest I've seen is that she is absolutely not supposed to be leaving town at a given point and a sudden storm blows in and closes every route away. Beware the Villainess, which is done and was fantastic, the plot was an actual force AND the author intent literally showed up as the final boss, essentially, and the whole thing is basically a battle for the right of fanfiction AUs to exist. More like beware the insanely boring male lead am I right e: I actually agree that it’s great and while nine is boring I don’t really mind him nrook fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jun 22, 2023 |
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Jun 22, 2023 00:52
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Captain Invictus posted:I Became a Slave in Another World (sob) and to make matters worse, My Master is a Black-Hearted Elf Queen! (But She’s Super Hot. (note: v. impt.)) I’m Pretty Useless, So I’m Getting Barked At Left, Right, and Centre, but the ORC I’m rooming with is full of good vibes, and the ELF in the Village is pretty cute too, so on the whole, I have to say that I’m actually quite enjoying myself here. updated! I don't know what happened to the previous upload, but the first chapter's been around for a while, and I guess just got reuploaded recently. well now there's a chapter two, and it's good to see it's not a one-trick pony.  That's... It's actually called that. Wow.
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Jun 22, 2023 02:11
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Onean posted:
That let's-be-a-novelist website and the naming schemes it inspired have a lot to answer for.
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Jun 22, 2023 02:27
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Onean posted:
Lock Knight posted:That let's-be-a-novelist website and the naming schemes it inspired have a lot to answer for.
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Jun 22, 2023 02:41
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I'm requesting two examples of that
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Jun 22, 2023 03:48
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Lost in the Jungle with my Gorilla Mom Back from the war only to be come the assistant to an Opium Addict Astral Projection lets me Jump really high. I was a mercenary but now I'm a King I was bored so I went whaling
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Jun 22, 2023 04:55
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It just popped into my head but Sonic X is an isekai story. RareAcumen posted:I'm requesting two examples of that  Here's one example.
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Jun 22, 2023 04:58
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Brought To You By posted:
Pictures are so good, thank you. That's very helpful.
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Jun 22, 2023 05:18
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Captain Invictus posted:I Became a Slave in Another World (sob) and to make matters worse, My Master is a Black-Hearted Elf Queen! (But She’s Super Hot. (note: v. impt.)) I’m Pretty Useless, So I’m Getting Barked At Left, Right, and Centre, but the ORC I’m rooming with is full of good vibes, and the ELF in the Village is pretty cute too, so on the whole, I have to say that I’m actually quite enjoying myself here. updated! I don't know what happened to the previous upload, but the first chapter's been around for a while, and I guess just got reuploaded recently. well now there's a chapter two, and it's good to see it's not a one-trick pony. Just finished the two chapters. This is loving hilarious and need more.
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Jun 22, 2023 09:20
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Captain Invictus posted:I Became a Slave in Another World (sob) and to make matters worse, My Master is a Black-Hearted Elf Queen! (But She’s Super Hot. (note: v. impt.)) I’m Pretty Useless, So I’m Getting Barked At Left, Right, and Centre, but the ORC I’m rooming with is full of good vibes, and the ELF in the Village is pretty cute too, so on the whole, I have to say that I’m actually quite enjoying myself here. updated! I don't know what happened to the previous upload, but the first chapter's been around for a while, and I guess just got reuploaded recently. well now there's a chapter two, and it's good to see it's not a one-trick pony. .....now that's a lengthy title.
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Jun 22, 2023 15:38
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Brought To You By posted:
Quite clearly not from the 1800s.
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Jun 22, 2023 16:15
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dublish posted:Quite clearly not from the 1800s. Captain Invictus posted:more like novels of the...1800s I think it was, have a lot to answer for, since they did this poo poo way back when.
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Jun 22, 2023 17:16
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Captain Invictus posted:I excuse you for not thinking otherwise considering some of the titles to come out of the LN space but this one is clearly taking the piss Oh yeah, I figured that was the case before I even thought to double check, but still.
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Jun 22, 2023 18:19
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