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General Battuta posted:The Traveler was never gonna be evil. Well at least not back then, in the olden times. gently caress me has it really been 10 years really? I always thought that the end of the original story took place inside the traveler and revealed that the traveler is a bad dude
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Jun 21, 2023 17:14
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General Battuta posted:The Traveler was never gonna be evil. Well at least not back then, in the olden times. gently caress me has it really been 10 years Thanks for writing cool poo poo that kept me playing this game for longer than I would have, and then when I stopped you wrote more cool poo poo that made me say "wait this character did WHAT" and got me to reinstall it.
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Jun 21, 2023 17:16
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What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was I think Bungie wanted us to wonder if maybe the Traveler was a Bad Dude, and they certainly had a lot of NPCs/lore tabs wonder this as well. But they never actually put anything in the game to SUPPORT such musings, so it always smelled like red herring to me
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Jun 21, 2023 17:19
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dodgeblan posted:really? I always thought that the end of the original story took place inside the traveler and revealed that the traveler is a bad dude yeah, GB has been correcting people on this for like half a decade but the Traveler was never going to be evil in the original conception of the story. I actually think they’ve done a pretty good job of making it understandably grayish? it has a very human mix of altruism and self-preservation
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Jun 21, 2023 17:19
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“the traveler is evil” would have been the laziest loving twist
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Jun 21, 2023 17:20
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Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:yeah, GB has been correcting people on this for like half a decade but the Traveler was never going to be evil in the original conception of the story. well i appreciate the clarification!
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Jun 21, 2023 17:23
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:
I think one of the coolest twists in the original lore was the suggestion that Rasputin crippled the traveler to stop it from leaving that they backed down from that is a CRIME
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Jun 21, 2023 17:25
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MJeff posted:If you play Destiny mainly for PvP, all I can tell you is this. Yeah, this is incredibly frustrating because there isn’t another FPS that plays the same way as destiny. Also, Marathon being an extraction shooter is a non-starter. 
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Jun 21, 2023 17:27
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haveblue posted:“the traveler is evil” would have been the laziest loving twist I think the idea that the traveller is evil is not quite what people wanted from a twist that would make the traveller not boring boilerplate good but more the notion that the Traveller is hugely powerful but completely indifferent and maybe even unaware of the knock-on-effects of it's actions. That it wants to grow a garden but it doesn't really understand what happens to the little lives it affects and wouldn't care if it did understand. There's still a little bit of that in the lore - the books of sorrow have a subtle implication that the Traveller's presence near Fundament caused the gravitational shifts that sparked the Syzygy that ultimately lead to the creation of the hive (although there is a matching implication that it's the worm gods doing it instead, which is something that WQ seems to state was the actual cause). There's the idea that the Traveller is totally cool turning Hive into guardians if that'll secure its own existence to keep growing poo poo. There's a dream sequence in the CE lore book for beyond light which can be read as the Traveller using metaphor to say, hey, massive natural disasters can happen and kill a lot of "insects" but the end result is richer growth afterwards. There's the potential dialogue in Prophecy where Drifter gets a vision of a Light filled world with suffering creatures that live forever in torment. I mean all this is also, apparently, the argument for the Witness for why the Light is so bad and why they need the final shape in the first place. If they're treading old, boring ground in this story it's mostly that they're clearly going for an ultimate theme that pursuing either philosophy to it's extreme is bad and
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Jun 21, 2023 17:47
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dodgeblan posted:really? I always thought that the end of the original story took place inside the traveler and revealed that the traveler is a bad dude A hoax made up by a random Reddit poster which everyone believed and repeated credulously. Just like each species having its own unique starting area or whatever.
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Jun 21, 2023 18:08
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haveblue posted:I... don't think so? The video (which full disclosure I have not rewatched after the first time) presented the Clarity statue as something the witness race discovered and came to understand rather than built. The pyramid ships are a product of the witness race but they carry darkness artifacts that predated them. It's really unclear because there are a lot of "we always believed X did this but actually it was Y pretending to be X" retcons flying around by now, alongside parsing apart the forces of darkness into factions and ranks that did not exist for the earliest lore elements  I generally agree with the same interpretation about the broader retcon with a caveat: I had interpreted the robed figures - like Clarity or the GoS statue - as Witness species stand-ins primarily because the cutscene shows lots of robed/hooded Witness species people. Feels like Witness species seeding darkness vibes is intentional - for instance to the hive and the worm gods - to willing participants, which we heroes also have obviously taken the bait about also.Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:yeah, that was my thinking—I haven’t had a chance to play, for example, and only watched the cutscene so some clickbait YouTubesman couldn’t beat me to the punch with a spoiler lol Agree on this as well. It's inevitable for such a long running game to have to run into historical writing and make accommodations for new stories to be woven in the overall setting. I certainly don't think everything needs to/should be connected with a card some other writer made 9 years ago. They're doing a remarkable job compared to a lot of other games! That said the tone does seem to be shifting and that's a bummer as a person invested in the setting more than the gameplay.  I think my primary critique at this point is that Destiny has always been mysterious but it hasn't been particularly ambiguous and this currently running thread seems like the latter.
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Jun 21, 2023 18:09
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Meiteron posted:I think the idea that the traveller is evil is not quite what people wanted from a twist that would make the traveller not boring boilerplate good but more the notion that the Traveller is hugely powerful but completely indifferent and maybe even unaware of the knock-on-effects of it's actions. That it wants to grow a garden but it doesn't really understand what happens to the little lives it affects and wouldn't care if it did understand. totally agree! the line in the new cutscene around the traveler being a source of great power but also great destruction would have been way more effective if we'd actually seen the traveler be a source of great destruction. All it's done is been non-committal
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Jun 21, 2023 18:09
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life_source posted:
Is this distinction actually relevant in any way to the game lore? I can't think of a way Also, the Traveler has been an inanimate object for the game's entire life, and the Witness only just became a character on Tuesday. Introducing your major characters in the final act of a story is always a bad decision, so I don't see them giving us a satisfying conclusion if Traveler & Witness are the major players
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Jun 21, 2023 18:10
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I am glad at least that the Witness's visual design makes perfect sense nowMeiteron posted:There's still a little bit of that in the lore - the books of sorrow have a subtle implication that the Traveller's presence near Fundament caused the gravitational shifts that sparked the Syzygy that ultimately lead to the creation of the hive (although there is a matching implication that it's the worm gods doing it instead, which is something that WQ seems to state was the actual cause). There's also the implication that it wasn't actually going to happen at all and the entire ascent of the Hive was built on lies from day 1 (or so I recall from the dialog in the WQ final mission). Certainly characterizing it as "the traveler did this to destroy us!" the way the worms did doesn't match with how it behaves at other times Also note that Oryx wrote that he considered checking up on what became of Fundament but decided against it, so its presence in the lore ends before the god-wave actually hit and that's a loose end  GoGoGadgetChris posted:Is this distinction actually relevant in any way to the game lore? I can't think of a way There's a nonzero chance that the Witness or Traveler or both are not going to survive the events of TFS, and this would let the Light and Darkness remain in the aftermath so they can still be the core of the premise and gameplay More thematically, it reflects the idea that it's not what the power is, it's how you use it and for what purpose
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Jun 21, 2023 18:18
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the witness = piccolo
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Jun 21, 2023 18:22
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I just don't give a poo poo about Megamind at all, sorry Bungie Should've stuck with the idea that the Vex always win each iteration of Everything and the light/dark stuff is an "attempt" to screw with that/not screw with that or whatever with the end being to tell the Traveler and the Darkness itself or whatever to gently caress off and win anyway by shooting Atheon 2.0 out of the universe with the Tractor Cannon
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Jun 21, 2023 18:27
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The Traveller is just the gods' giant space roomba that got stuck in a corner (Earth) and is being batted around by the cat (The Witness).
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Jun 21, 2023 18:30
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Also, lmaoquote:We used to get writing like this: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/ghost-fragment-mysteries. So...is Rasputin now talking about the Witness Spaceship Fleet? The Witness themselves? Is Rasputin afraid of the Veil somehow even though we've never seen the Veil say, do, or affect anything? quote:I am made to win and now I see the way. Bad news about that one Rasputin you literally never win
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Jun 21, 2023 18:31
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ponzicar posted:The Traveller is just the gods' giant space roomba that got stuck in a corner (Earth) and is being batted around by the cat (The Witness). 
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Jun 21, 2023 18:34
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Jun 21, 2023 18:56
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cant wait to use Cayde’s dick to blast the Witness back into one guy who can be solo one phased in the raid
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Jun 21, 2023 19:01
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was No one was really wondering if the Traveler was bad they were wondering why it wasn’t doing anything. What if the Traveler is not a benevolent God that cares about my individual life and is going to swoop down and save the day? That is what those characters are asking after centuries of thinking the Traveler was their personal savior.
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Jun 21, 2023 19:41
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ponzicar posted:The Traveller is just the gods' giant space roomba that got stuck in a corner (Earth) and is being batted around by the cat (The Witness). 
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Jun 21, 2023 19:46
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RBA Starblade posted:Bad news about that one Rasputin you literally never win Blowing up the Almighty was pretty sweet, even if it did take 100x as long as we all expected
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Jun 21, 2023 19:46
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sunday at work posted:What if the Traveler is not a benevolent God that cares about my individual life and is going to swoop down and save the day? That is what those characters are asking after centuries of thinking the Traveler was their personal savior. Was anyone supposed to think this? I remember day 1 of destiny learning that the Traveler had abandoned the Fallen and that it was born 2 run The reason why 'rasputin shot the traveler' stuck with people was that it had a reputation for abandoning those in need
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Jun 21, 2023 19:49
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Yeah, the initial mystery even before D1 came out was, why did the Traveler stand and fight at Earth when it had opted not to do that at least once before that we knew of and probably a lot more than that. Someone forcing it to seemed very plausible before more backstory was revealed
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Jun 21, 2023 19:51
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Travler just wants to make a garden and be left alone, I can relate to that  .
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Jun 21, 2023 19:58
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Mesadoram posted:Travler just wants to make a garden and be left alone, I can relate to that a tale as old as time 
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Jun 21, 2023 20:19
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I wonder if they give us a destiny expansion that pivots into now, vex!!!!!1!
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Jun 21, 2023 20:28
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^burtle posted:cant wait to use Cayde’s dick to blast the Witness back into one guy who can be solo one phased in the raid Hate to break it to you but they won’t put an important story beat like that in a raid. We’ll kill the witness in a cheeseable solo mission and the raid will be to fight some fallen who are trying to do… some stuff.
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Jun 21, 2023 20:52
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The raid will be us being like omg no he had a Deadman switch! Quick go to this place and do the things so the thing doesn't happen!
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Jun 21, 2023 21:04
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Waroduce posted:The raid will be us being like omg no he had a Deadman switch! Quick go to this place and do the things so the thing doesn't happen! both campaign and raid boss will be witness, i'd bet my hat on it
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Jun 21, 2023 21:14
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dodgeblan posted:both campaign and raid boss will be witness, i'd bet my hat on it Like some kind of backup as part of a Witness Protection Plan
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Jun 21, 2023 21:15
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i think the raid boss is going to be xivu arath. campaign is going to be the witness.
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Jun 21, 2023 21:47
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Lib and let die posted:Like some kind of backup as part of a Witness Protection Plan Lmao
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Jun 21, 2023 22:02
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no, I'm not the witness, I'm... the shmitness, and I'm the new hunter vanguard
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Jun 21, 2023 22:07
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What if the Traveler is not what we thought it was You say red herring, I say chekhov's guns. The story of destiny lore is basically setting up a million things for the first 5 years and then gradually explaining why none of them were going to pay off in the last 5 years. The darkness entities that drifter tangled with What is going on with the physical body of calus Why was osiris such a bad dude that the tower had to exile him Did rasputin shoot first The last wish What happened to the planets that got taken the answer to all these things basically ended up being 'it doesn't matter actually' PS i know there are lore answers to those questions, but from a narrative perspective they don't really matter
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Jun 21, 2023 22:25
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the last wish is literally the raid named "the last wish"
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Jun 21, 2023 22:27
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muike posted:the last wish is literally the raid named "the last wish" thankyou sir that clears everything up
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Jun 21, 2023 22:28
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