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Stux posted:this is the opposite of fun
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Jun 22, 2023 18:56
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Stux posted:in fact its good if theres poo poo thats just dogshit lol that rules. overbalancing is aids. simple as. no. every class needs to be the exact same. every skill must be normalized to the exact same dps. your choices should be whether you shoot red fireball or blue fireball or yellow fireball
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Jun 22, 2023 18:57
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unattended spaghetti posted:I don't wanna go back to III seasons because the progression was both dull and shallow. Only thing making it worth it was pushing but when your power curve is pretty much determined in advance it's kinda lame. D4 does something similar - you need cdr, resource cost reduction, good damage and damage reduction stats Nd skill ranks, etc, but you also play the aspect Tetris. I just wish the progression was a bit more varied in WT4, cause you are mostly going to replace the same piece with one with higher rolled stats after a while cause aspects stay the same all game long and build defining uniques are very few.
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Jun 22, 2023 18:59
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mbt posted:no. every class needs to be the exact same. every skill must be normalized to the exact same dps. your choices should be whether you shoot red fireball or blue fireball or yellow fireball the future liberals want
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Jun 22, 2023 19:10
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That Italian Guy posted:I have to say I have found D4 itemization to be more interesting than D3 because it has at least some component of the stat Tetris you would do in 2. In D2 you had certain targets that you had to achieve for your build to be effective (faster cast rate%, faster hit recovery%, 75% resistances, cannot be frozen, etc) plus as much +skill levels (or AR/dmg for physical) and Magic Find %, but the way to achieve that was not automatically fixed - you could drop a unique, a good rare or an high rune that enabled you to move things around and get a better setup. I can't speak to endgame but I agree with this completely. I know there's a swamp of affixes and some lack of clarity, but making trade offs during leveling is fun and much better than D3 and its pick only green arrows then sets. Your second point will be resolved by a bigger pool of aspects. I expect in time any given skill should have at least one supporting aspect. If that ends up being the case I like my idea of well rolled aspects being season journey rewards. Hell I'll go one further and say if there's a deep bench of stuff they could lightly random ice it so the progression stays fresh. I get that people are annoyed about leveling new characters but leveling in this game is actually fairly interesting because of the way items work and the trade offs you have to make.
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Jun 22, 2023 19:13
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Why in the name of all that's holy haven't they put more dungeons in the nightmare rotation?
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Jun 22, 2023 19:23
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It's borderline abusive
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Jun 22, 2023 19:24
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unattended spaghetti posted:I can't speak to endgame but I agree with this completely. I know there's a swamp of affixes and some lack of clarity, but making trade offs during leveling is fun and much better than D3 and its pick only green arrows then sets. This even really true at all though. There's a huge number of stats available to gear, but they're all smushed in to one bit bucket so there's effectively no difference between them at all, except for crit hit damage and vulnerable damage. For stats that matter you get: Crit CHD Vulnerable damage Attack speed (gloves only*) +Offensive skills CDR Everything else is just a generic "more damage". Close damage, X skill damage, damage to poisoned/chilled/burning, the entire 30 entry long list. Then you get defensive stats: Life Armor % DR % Resistances* (Don't actually do anything) Reduced from close/far Move speed Especially during leveling, there's nothing to look for on gear more than +skills and weapon dps+++. The tiny changes from the affix ranges available on lower level gear are totally irrelevant. Stats are similarly pointless down there. Cool you got 10 prime stat? Enjoy reveling in that whopping 1% more damage. The off stats are even less impactful. There's room to Tetris gear later, but it's not remotely on the level you're presenting it as. It's honestly not even as good as D3 is in that regard Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jun 22, 2023 |
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Jun 22, 2023 19:32
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I guess bone necro is starting to get more popular with more streamers doing it and my god the builds being put out are just complete poo poo.
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Jun 22, 2023 19:32
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Gwaihir posted:This even really true at all though. There's a huge number of stats available to gear, but they're all smushed in to one bit bucket so there's effectively no difference between them at all, except for crit hit damage and vulnerable damage. But you're free to choose the stats that are strictly worse than the ideal ones so you can have a bespoke build. Also it's not like that optimization matters since you can kill Lillith at 50 with anything. D4 truly sets you free with your creativity (by not having sets).
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Jun 22, 2023 19:37
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soscannonballs posted:I guess bone necro is starting to get more popular with more streamers doing it and my god the builds being put out are just complete poo poo. Streamers aren’t automatically good at video games. I see egregious stuff like frost sorcerer builds that are freezing enemies and not running the ice shards enchantment all the time. In general there are tons of folks with no consideration of synergy or how to even approach a build, and just throw random poo poo together.
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Jun 22, 2023 19:39
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That Italian Guy posted:I have to say I have found D4 itemization to be more interesting than D3 because it has at least some component of the stat Tetris you would do in 2. In D2 you had certain targets that you had to achieve for your build to be effective (faster cast rate%, faster hit recovery%, 75% resistances, cannot be frozen, etc) plus as much +skill levels (or AR/dmg for physical) and Magic Find %, but the way to achieve that was not automatically fixed - you could drop a unique, a good rare or an high rune that enabled you to move things around and get a better setup. Agreed. About WT4 progression, I think this is the kind of thing that is a problem now, but will naturally get better over time. They've already confirmed they will be adding new legos, uniques, paragon boards, glyphs, etc with every season. Then there's the seasonal mechanic as well.
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Jun 22, 2023 19:44
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The reason D3 is bad is because end game is doing a GR150 while end game for D4 is killing Lillith. That's why there's so much build diversity in D4 while everyone is forced into only playing a single build in D3.
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Jun 22, 2023 19:46
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That Italian Guy posted:I have to say I have found D4 itemization to be more interesting than D3 because it has at least some component of the stat Tetris you would do in 2. In D2 you had certain targets that you had to achieve for your build to be effective (faster cast rate%, faster hit recovery%, 75% resistances, cannot be frozen, etc) plus as much +skill levels (or AR/dmg for physical) and Magic Find %, but the way to achieve that was not automatically fixed - you could drop a unique, a good rare or an high rune that enabled you to move things around and get a better setup. Am I reading this wrong, because D3 had all of this. You moved stats around as you wanted, but you could also use white blue and yellows as bases to change into legendaries as well, giving you even more options. D3 was far easier for customizing equipment than in D4 I'm finding.
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Jun 22, 2023 19:52
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Quizzlefish posted:Why in the name of all that's holy haven't they put more dungeons in the nightmare rotation? probably because most of the ppl who are just hard running through nm dungeons are just going to do the same 2-3 or "best" ones anyway and they need something else to change from season to season?
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Jun 22, 2023 19:52
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bamhand posted:The reason D3 is bad is because end game is doing a GR150 while end game for D4 is killing Lillith. That's why there's so much build diversity in D4 while everyone is forced into only playing a single build in D3. 
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Jun 22, 2023 19:55
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Vidmaster posted:Streamers aren’t automatically good at video games. I see egregious stuff like frost sorcerer builds that are freezing enemies and not running the ice shards enchantment all the time. In general there are tons of folks with no consideration of synergy or how to even approach a build, and just throw random poo poo together. Yeah I feel bad for the people who are following a bad build because someone with a lot of views puts out a video. Just saw a video where the dude could literally more than double his damage by swapping his glove and weapon aspects with each other
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Jun 22, 2023 20:01
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Tokubetsu posted:probably because most of the ppl who are just hard running through nm dungeons are just going to do the same 2-3 or "best" ones anyway and they need something else to change from season to season? yeah they already made tier lists for NMs too https://maxroll.gg/d4/tierlists/nightmare-dungeon-tier-lists
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Jun 22, 2023 20:02
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Gwaihir posted:This even really true at all though. There's a huge number of stats available to gear, but they're all smushed in to one bit bucket so there's effectively no difference between them at all, except for crit hit damage and vulnerable damage. You left out thorns, extra dodge, life on kill. Those are just the ones I'm aware of. That's not meant to cancel out your point but the leveling process is what I'm talking about here and you absolutely will have to make some concessions. If you're talking about endgame I'm not there yet and I haven't personally felt the items are as one note as you're presenting them here. But I'm not an optimal player and never claimed to be so perhaps you're totally right and I'm just an idiot. Either way, this characterization has not matched my experience at all.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:03
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unattended spaghetti posted:You left out thorns, extra dodge, life on kill. Those are just the ones I'm aware of. That's not meant to cancel out your point but the leveling process is what I'm talking about here and you absolutely will have to make some concessions. If you're talking about endgame I'm not there yet and I haven't personally felt the items are as one note as you're presenting them here. But I'm not an optimal player and never claimed to be so perhaps you're totally right and I'm just an idiot. Either way, this characterization has not matched my experience at all. I got to T3 just picking items with a green number instead of a red. Stats really don't matter while leveling.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:05
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mbt posted:no. every class needs to be the exact same. every skill must be normalized to the exact same dps. your choices should be whether you shoot red fireball or blue fireball or yellow fireball Trust me I hate normalizing damage, it's just very anticlimatic that I have this intricate build with a lot of moving parts (four sources of Shout cooldown reduction, permanent Whirlwind uptime with a vacuum mechanic) and suddenly there are key Elites that can just outleech me and if there's no other enemies left to multiply the AOE thorns damage then I just have to quit the dungeon, because there's nothing left in the game to scale it significantly higher with. I could just sidestep the issue if there was a better way to group. But my goon clan has no one online in WT4 and even the discord is idle. Did they ever say why there isn't a LFG menu? Didn't Diablo 2 have a big "cow runzzzzz" dropdown?
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Jun 22, 2023 20:06
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Life on kill is nice while leveling, sure. But the way scaling on the game works, no amount of fussing around with low level gear makes any real difference past your skills and weapon dps. Maybe a couple legendary aspects depending on your build. I don't like it because I love playing around with gear tweaking, it's a large part about what I love in these type of games. But sincerely, while doing the campaign, it doesn't remotely matter. (It didn't in d3, either, but the leveling portion of that game is a whole 2 hours, so whatever.)
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Jun 22, 2023 20:08
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I'd like it if they just had every dungeon in the NM roster so I could knock out aspects and renown in a randomized fashion, and also because I will never in my life, on Anu, read a tier list.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:13
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Gwaihir posted:Life on kill is nice while leveling, sure. But the way scaling on the game works, no amount of fussing around with low level gear makes any real difference past your skills and weapon dps. Maybe a couple legendary aspects depending on your build. Well it wouldn't be the first time I've over thought something lol. Kind of a bummer if that's really the case though because I've made it a point to tweak along the way and it has definitely made a difference for me. But I'll shoot for big weapon damage first and see how that shakes out.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:16
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Once you do enough nms you won't need a tier list to intuit which ones are just straight up better to run.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:16
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It will also depend on your build, dungeons with long straight hallways are great for bone spear. Champion's demise, one of the "good" dungeons, is crap to run for me because the spiders constantly root me and enemies get spread out more due to it being a big open area.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:22
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unattended spaghetti posted:Well it wouldn't be the first time I've over thought something lol. Kind of a bummer if that's really the case though because I've made it a point to tweak along the way and it has definitely made a difference for me. But I'll shoot for big weapon damage first and see how that shakes out. if you felt a difference you should do the thing you like doing that felt fun to do and ignore killjoys. just my two cents lol
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Jun 22, 2023 20:24
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i feel the need the need for waheed
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Jun 22, 2023 20:24
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There are apparently multiple secret post-credits scenes for beating the campaign multiple times. There is the one that seems to be Lucion rising in Hell. People have just discovered an additional one that is definitely Mephisto in Hell. Mephisto being important going forward seems pretty obvious. Lucion was his "good" child that obeyed him. So, probably something related to Meph and Lucion getting up to some hijinks. Hopefully, they will finally reveal who Mephisto was loving to produce his weird children. It would also be nice is Baal could get resurrected so he could lose his canonical virginity.   
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Jun 22, 2023 20:29
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Hopefully they tease demon mommy coming back in future games too she was a good villain
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Jun 22, 2023 20:33
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Give our regards to the person replaying the campaign for these.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:48
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Donnerberg posted:Give our regards to the person replaying the campaign for these. Yeah I was immediately struck by how I would literally have never seen these things and won't without either helpful posters here or youtube.
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Jun 22, 2023 20:49
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some people here were talking about finding little easter eggs about like the diablo 2 paladin and whatnot, but it was long enough back that i hadnt finished the campaign yet - are there any others?
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Jun 22, 2023 20:58
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Verviticus posted:some people here were talking about finding little easter eggs about like the diablo 2 paladin and whatnot, but it was long enough back that i hadnt finished the campaign yet - are there any others? There's a lot of Act 2 from Diablo 3 references in the Steppes area. Johanna the Crusader from Heroes of the Storm/Diablo 3 is in one of the sidequests. The Scoundrel companion from D3 runs one of the towns in the swamp. The dark vision of Tristram has some references to D1 and D2. Definitely some others I'm forgetting/never saw.
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Jun 22, 2023 21:01
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Since we're talking about season 1, some things I'd like to see personally- Higher unique drop rate, but non-class guarenteed. Maybe something like double the drop rate, but with a 50/50 weight on whether you get a class specific unique or not. I always loved finding uniques that made me want to level a new class, and I miss that in D4 (Aside from the druid apparently dropping barb uniques for some reason). Non-class specific uniques aside, I think they're just too rare in general. Probably partially because the game doesn't currently have any leveling uniques, which is a bummer. Clearing the den of evil and getting some arctic mittens or whatever they were called was fun, and that just isn't a thing right now in D4. A long hard look at nightmare dungeon modifiers, because jesus are a lot of them unfun. And I don't mean they're too hard, I mean they literally make the game less fun when you have to deal with them. Hiding in the bubble from the lightning storm isn't difficult, it's tedious. The rock chasing you isn't difficult, it just means you can't go take a piss. And the resource drain is just...Why? Why did anyone think that was a good idea? Massive balance changes. I harped on it enough in this thread, and I'm pretty confident it's coming, but man do a lot of skills need some love. More inventory space. Something like PoE's map tab for sigils would be good, and I wouldn't even be that mad if they tried selling it or tying it to a battlepass, but there definitely needs to just be more -free- stash tabs on top of that. Four is not nearly enough. There's a lot more I'd like to see over time, but I'm not gonna hold my breath on crazy poo poo like runes or charms (With a charm bag, not clogging up my entire inventory) for the first few seasons. Mostly just numerical changes and quality of life poo poo that I think the game needs pretty bad.
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Jun 22, 2023 21:02
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soscannonballs posted:I guess bone necro is starting to get more popular with more streamers doing it and my god the builds being put out are just complete poo poo. I'm going to be switching out of my current CE type necro to a bone spear build. Are there any major mistakes/traps in the build on maxroll? (https://maxroll.gg/d4/build-guides/bone-spear-necromancer-guide) I was also considering bone spirit but spear seems more versatile.
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Jun 22, 2023 21:03
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Re skills they were probably happy shipping it with every class having at least one skill set up that works at deep endgame
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Jun 22, 2023 21:05
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I wonder if any of their playtesters ever considered that one of the top builds for sorcerer ended up being stacking all 4 defensive skills, unstable currents, and arc lash to delete everything.
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Jun 22, 2023 21:15
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From what I get from POE background, testers do note all of that stuff but the devs put it in a list all issues and then triage the list
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Jun 22, 2023 21:17
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i cant beat the lvl 70 capstone dungeon as a never-seen-a-guide ice sorcerer the bosses hits all one or two shot me
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Jun 22, 2023 21:18
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