Premier League Summer: No Football Zone

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threeagainstfour: Jun 27, 2005

Gorn Myson posted:

The most surprising thing about City's treble is how little people care about it. I always saw them winning the Champions League as a nightmare scenario but in reality you just roll with it. Mourinho's 'historical treble' with United upset me more than this. Losing 2-1 at Old Trafford upset me more than this.

I think part of it is just that they don�t have that many fans/supporters really. They are an insanely good team with a shitload of money, and a willingness to cheat their way around FFP, but I don�t think they have the global following that the other big EPL clubs enjoy.

# ? Jun 18, 2023 01:29

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 14:31

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

Nuclear Spoon posted:

lol if true

https://twitter.com/Matt_Law_DT/status/1669429566669049858

gently caress sake.

Stake are tied to that lovely new streaming platform "Kick" as well.

# ? Jun 18, 2023 10:47

Xabi: Jan 21, 2006; Inventor of the Marmite pasty

threeagainstfour posted:

I don�t think they have the global following that the other big EPL clubs enjoy.

I think you might be right.

# ? Jun 18, 2023 15:13

hadji murad: Apr 18, 2006

Dudley posted:

gently caress sake.

Stake are tied to that lovely new streaming platform "Kick" as well.

It�s awful as gently caress but it�s also because the league won�t let them have Paramount + as a sponsor.

# ? Jun 18, 2023 22:54

Mickolution: Oct 1, 2005; Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

hadji murad posted:

It�s awful as gently caress but it�s also because the league won�t let them have Paramount + as a sponsor.

Just looked this up and it's ludicrous that they've been blocked from having Paramount+. Has this happened before?

# ? Jun 19, 2023 10:20

Dudley: Feb 24, 2003; Tasty

I can think of multiple competitors to broadcast partners that have been on shirts if you even consider Paramount + one.

# ? Jun 19, 2023 10:32

Mickolution: Oct 1, 2005; Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

I'm sure there are loads, but NTL is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.

# ? Jun 19, 2023 10:36

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

https://twitter.com/sistoney67/status/1670758009125863426

What the gently caress?

# ? Jun 19, 2023 12:41

the sex ghost: Sep 6, 2009

Must have been offered another job behind the scenes surely

# ? Jun 19, 2023 12:47

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

If that's the case they've done a really bad job with their statement. The results he got kept them in the prem.

# ? Jun 19, 2023 12:49

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

Thanks Ants posted:

If that's the case they've done a really bad job with their statement. The results he got kept them in the prem.

I had him as my manager of the season tbh

# ? Jun 19, 2023 12:49

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Since the new sack race isn't up yet obviously and Newcastle have statistically the hardest start of the season I'm going in on Howe getting sacked after 0 points in 5 matches

# ? Jun 19, 2023 12:51

the sex ghost: Sep 6, 2009

They did sack parker about a week into last season after he got them promoted so maybe they just like wheeling and dealing with the managers

# ? Jun 19, 2023 13:00

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

It doesn't make any sense. Maybe they appointed him as a cheap option assuming relegation was already guaranteed, and now that they're in the PL for another season they want somebody else? I feel like interim managers who get the job full time never stick around too long because the club didn't actually want them in the first place, no matter what they might have achieved. Like Di Matteo at Chelsea.

# ? Jun 19, 2023 13:04

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

This is the express admittedly but a manger has been accused of raping a teenage girl

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1782115/Premier-League-news-manager-police-rape-teenage-girl

# ? Jun 19, 2023 13:16

UnderFreddy: Oct 9, 2012; GEGENPOSTING

i think it makes sense to sack O'Neil if they don't believe he can keep them up again or won't be a help in them progressing the owners ambitions.

looking at the underlying stats, Bournemouth were a bit fortuitous last season, maybe they believe another manager will make them better. Or be a better name for when they want to sign players, someone foreign players want to play for.

# ? Jun 19, 2023 13:56

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

Jose posted:

This is the express admittedly but a manger has been accused of raping a teenage girl

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1782115/Premier-League-news-manager-police-rape-teenage-girl

Do they mean English top-flight as in working in England, or that the manager is English?

# ? Jun 19, 2023 14:01

Mickolution: Oct 1, 2005; Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

Reads to me like they mean "a manger in the English top flight"

# ? Jun 19, 2023 14:59

Shrapnig: Jan 21, 2005

Brendan Rodgers, Tottenham Hotspur Manager 2024/25

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1670750987844304896

# ? Jun 19, 2023 15:17

FullLeatherJacket: Dec 30, 2004; Chiunque pu� essere Luther Blissett, semplicemente adottando il nome Luther Blissett

seems like Bournemouth saw a shiny new manager they liked better

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65954183

# ? Jun 19, 2023 18:13

Nissin Cup Nudist: Sep 3, 2011; Sleep with one eye open

We're off to Gritty Gritty land

the sex ghost posted:

They did sack parker about a week into last season after he got them promoted so maybe they just like wheeling and dealing with the managers

Parker was openly begging to be sacked though. There has to be more to this move

FullLeatherJacket posted:

seems like Bournemouth saw a shiny new manager they liked better

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65954183

Checks out

# ? Jun 19, 2023 18:43

Moktaro: Aug 3, 2007; I value call my nuts.

the sex ghost posted:

The season is over. Congrats to man city on finally killing football forever after only a couple of attempts. Commiserations to relegated sides. Luton are in the prem next season which is still crazy.

What are you doing while we wait for football to come back? Personally I'm going to watch the ashes and pretend last season didn't happen

Don't be so hard on yourself, Leeds haven't burned to the ground yet!

# ? Jun 20, 2023 06:54

Masonity: Dec 31, 2007; What, I wonder, does this hidden face of madness reveal of the makers? These K'Chain Che'Malle?

Moktaro posted:

Don't be so hard on yourself, Leeds haven't burned to the ground yet!

Have you been to Leeds? That'd be a bloody improvement. It's the Leeds of England.

# ? Jun 20, 2023 06:59

Butterfly Valley: Apr 19, 2007; I am a spectacularly bad poster and everyone in the Schadenfreude thread hates my guts.

Have you? Leeds is a top tier UK city

# ? Jun 20, 2023 09:04

harperdc: Jul 24, 2007

Butterfly Valley posted:

Have you? Leeds is a top tier UK city

https://youtu.be/20XLWEjN9eI

# ? Jun 20, 2023 10:29

FullLeatherJacket: Dec 30, 2004; Chiunque pu� essere Luther Blissett, semplicemente adottando il nome Luther Blissett

Butterfly Valley posted:

Have you? Leeds is a top tier UK city

it's certainly in the top 76

# ? Jun 20, 2023 20:02

Mickolution: Oct 1, 2005; Ballers...I put numbers on the boards

This sums up my feelings on this topic pretty well.

https://theathletic.com/4600507/2023/06/22/pundits-are-not-there-to-act-as-fans/

quote:

No more pundits acting like fans, please
By Michael Cox

Manchester City have just qualified for the Champions League final by thrashing Real Madrid 4-0, and the BT Sport pundits are running through the goals.

Amid lovely interplay and individual brilliance, City also benefit from what is initially considered an Eder Militao own goal (it was later credited to Manuel Akanji). Therefore, when that clip is played, the analysis is left to former England defender Joleon Lescott, explaining how the Real Madrid centre-back should have dealt with it.

There�s not that much to say, in fairness. Militao is basically just unsighted, it hits him and goes in. But Lescott does the job manfully, and ends with the standard, �� and unfortunately it goes into the net.�

At that point, presenter Jake Humphrey bursts out laughing: �Unfortunately he did it?! Unfortunately?!� Humphrey is in stitches at the idea Lescott, a former Manchester City player, would think an own goal in favour of City is unfortunate.

That incident sums up the current confusion in football punditry. Lescott took the old-school approach, believing he was employed as a former centre-back � and current England Under-21 assistant � to explain the thought process of a player. But what broadcasters increasingly want is a former player from a particular club who can replicate the emotions of their fans. It doesn�t matter that Lescott wasn�t a City fan growing up, that he played for two other clubs more than he played for City, or that he left City before any of the current players joined.

By the final, Lescott understood the drill. Brought in several times throughout the game, Lescott was �more nervous than I expected� in the first half. On 82 minutes he confirmed he was �nervous, more nervous than I should be, more nervous than when I played.� On 90 minutes, commentator Darren Fletcher told him there were �people all around the UK wondering if you�re OK,� which was patently untrue. A couple of minutes after full-time, Fletcher told him to �Get yourself down there! You can�t sit up here any longer! You�ve got to be with the players of your former club!� It was never explained why.

Let�s be clear what this column is about. This is not about bias. This is not about that time there was a controversial refereeing incident involving Manchester United and Gary Neville�s interpretation was different to yours. This is not about the time when Jamie Carragher was asked which of two players were better, and he chose the Liverpool player. This is about how pundits� entire job, having largely remained the same for decades, has transformed entirely over the past few years, away from a default position of neutrality and towards a default position of fandom.

Sometimes, you sense pundits are forced to pretend they care about their former clubs more than they really do, like a secretary of state constrained by collective ministerial responsibility on an episode of Question Time. At other times, they now talk about their former clubs in a paranoid way, taking the role of a supporter who believes the media is against them. Ahead of the FA Cup final, Roy Keane claimed that �everyone has written Manchester United off�. They hadn�t, everyone simply thought City were favourites, and they duly won. Micah Richards, meanwhile, suggested Pep Guardiola had done well because he�d used a system featuring defenders shifting into midfield �when everyone said he shouldn�t�. They hadn�t, we all simply recognised what an innovative, daring and therefore risky approach it was.

Richards, like Lescott, is a likeable guy and a decent analyst. But he is now almost ubiquitous, partly because broadcasters feel they desperately need someone to represent the perennial Premier League champions. Most other ex-City options played for them before their successful period, or don�t live in the UK any more, or aren�t particularly engaging. So it�s Richards, and if not, then Lescott.

Another former City defender, Nedum Onuoha, clearly a highly-intelligent thinker about a broad range of topics, is increasingly used similarly. Viaplay, the Norwegian broadcaster of the Premier League, found themselves with a decision to make last summer upon the arrival of Erling Haaland. Who should they sign as a big-name pundit, now Norwegian interest in the Premier League was higher than ever? The obvious choice was� Haaland�s dad, former City midfielder Alf Inge. At least any questions about nerves make a bit more sense.

The previous weekend, the BBC�s FA Cup final build-up featured Richards confidently predicting a 2-1 City victory (fair enough, he was spot on) and Peter Schmeichel (a former player of both clubs, but purely United-leaning for punditry purposes) simply saying that he �woke up with a good feeling�. When pundits are asked for their predictions, they simply say what they want to happen. �Obviously, I�ve got to go for my old side!�

At half-time, Jaap Stam was asked for his analysis. Stam is a reasonably experienced manager and an interesting pundit, often employed by the Premier League to go along the raft of foreign broadcasters and provide analysis for several countries in turn. Tactically, he knows his stuff. But he was initially asked, inevitably, �How are the nerves?� He played for Manchester United for three seasons, more than two decades ago, so you�d hope he was coping OK. Stam successfully managed to steer his answer back to analysis. At full-time, Jack Grealish was interviewed on the pitch, and asked whether he would mind if Richards joined in the celebrations. This is now the standard routine.

Even Neville and Carragher, still the gold standard of pundits, have been tempted down this path. Frankly, you have to admire their sheer versatility: they successfully pull off the vibe of TFI Friday on Friday nights, Ant and Dec on Saturday evening, The Andrew Marr Show on Sunday and Only Connect on a Monday night. But the tone for Manchester United v Liverpool games increasingly feels like watching a game down the pub � see Neville telling Carragher to �do one� towards the end of Liverpool�s 7-0 win over Manchester United last season.

Afterwards, Sky cut back to the studio, and Kelly Cates asked Graeme Souness for his immediate reaction. A grinning Souness responded, �Can I wait until Gary Neville gets back?� His answer was based solely around the on-screen rivalry (and their contrasting pre-match predictions, both inevitably in favour of their former side) rather than the on-pitch rivalry. This isn�t punditry about the football, it�s punditry about their own punditry.

When Neville and Carragher made their way down from the gantry and into the studio, Neville was placed next to Keane on the left, Souness next to Carragher on the right. This tactical formation brought to mind The Jerry Springer Show, with Cates the only neutral. Or maybe not. When she asked Souness to sum up Roberto Firmino�s legacy at Liverpool, Souness told her that the Brazilian was Liverpool�s most intelligent centre-forward �since your dad�, as if this was a game show where the objective is to win over the host.

All this is very peculiar considering there�s an absolute deluge of fan-driven content online these days, particularly in video format. But television, rather than attempting to provide an alternative to that noise, is trying to replicate it. It genuinely feels like broadcasters who pay billions for the rights to show Premier League matches have been rattled by the likes of ArsenalFanTV and believe they should use experienced ex-players in a similar way.

Perhaps, just as they�ve largely given up on making football-related shows (Soccer AM, Sunday Supplement and Goals on Sunday are no more), broadcasters have also realised few people want proper analysis of a match. Maybe the objective is now to create short clips that will go viral, and ultimately internet video content is a contest to shout the loudest. Clearly some people enjoy this type of punditry. People certainly engage with it, although much of the engagement is surely people sharing it to say how much they dislike it, or sharing it to wind up other fans. The pundits probably enjoy it too, although that�s inevitable � it�s easier. Analysing a game properly and coming up with original points is difficult; acting like a generic fan requires comparably little effort.

Following football is about emotion, of course, and emotions will be particularly strong for those who have played a part in a club�s previous efforts, or know those involved. No one begrudges Pablo Zabaleta being almost too overcome to speak when Argentina won the World Cup. No one expected stone-faced neutrality from Gary Lineker when Leicester City clinched the league. Ian Wright�s genuine emotion when England Women won matches at Euro 2022 might have tempted others to follow the tournament.

Regardless, if we�re fans of a team involved, we are living the emotions for ourselves. If not, we can surely be trusted to work out how fans might be feeling.

Older viewers will remember that Sky Sports used to offer alternative commentary on live matches: FanZone, when a supporter from either sides would banter throughout the game and celebrate in each others� faces when their team scored. It was a complete contrast to the standard commentary. But now, the accepted approach is increasingly a hybrid of the two.

It�s not all doom and gloom. The rising star from the past couple of seasons has been BT Sport co-commentator Lucy Ward, selected for the biggest game of the Premier League season, Manchester City versus Arsenal. The obvious thing to say about Ward is that she�s female, but maybe it�s more significant that she doesn�t have ties to any club � particularly given her lengthy legal case against her main ex-employer, Leeds United. She isn�t expected to act as a celebrity fan, and is instead purely there to provide insight. She is better prepared than most of her contemporaries, and analyses the game excellently.

Maybe others could do this, too. Maybe Lescott reads the game well, maybe Stam has the tactical understanding of more celebrated Dutch coaches, maybe Richards could become appointment viewing on Monday Night Football. But we�ll never find out if the default question continues to be the utterly pathetic �How are the nerves?�

# ? Jun 22, 2023 10:40

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

Yes Jake Humphrey and BT Sport in general is bad

# ? Jun 22, 2023 12:19

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

It�s not like the pundits were ever good at the analysis. We�ve gone from bad analysis to reality TV, which is at least entertaining.

# ? Jun 22, 2023 17:24

emjayo: Apr 11, 2013

I�d wanna say with BT losing the Champions League rights they�ll be gone, but they�re all contractors and will just pop up on Eurosport or w/e next season�s games are.

# ? Jun 22, 2023 19:23

psyer: Mar 26, 2013

emjayo posted:

I’d wanna say with BT losing the Champions League rights they’ll be gone, but they’re all contractors and will just pop up on Eurosport or w/e next season’s games are.

BT isn't losing Champions League rights. They just retained most of it until 2027.

https://www.bt.com/sport/football/champions-league/bt-sport-champions-league-rights-deal-tv-announcement

BT is rebranding as TNT Sports this summer since Discovery got like 50% stake in BT Sport now.

# ? Jun 22, 2023 20:04

FullLeatherJacket: Dec 30, 2004; Chiunque pu� essere Luther Blissett, semplicemente adottando il nome Luther Blissett

it seems like an incredibly bad decision to replace a ubiquitous brand that was once the monopoly for all british telecommunications with a brand with zero UK history and that no-one (outside of people who read The Death Of WCW) knows anything about, but maybe it will make Micah Richards less bad

# ? Jun 22, 2023 20:23

emjayo: Apr 11, 2013

psyer posted:

BT isn't losing Champions League rights. They just retained most of it until 2027.

https://www.bt.com/sport/football/champions-league/bt-sport-champions-league-rights-deal-tv-announcement

BT is rebranding as TNT Sports this summer since Discovery got like 50% stake in BT Sport now.

this sounds like some fail op

# ? Jun 22, 2023 21:47

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

FullLeatherJacket posted:

it seems like an incredibly bad decision to replace a ubiquitous brand that was once the monopoly for all british telecommunications with a brand with zero UK history and that no-one (outside of people who read The Death Of WCW) knows anything about, but maybe it will make Micah Richards less bad

my mam who doesn't watch or follow football at all loves micah richards and thinks he's extremely funny in case you're curious as to his specific audience

# ? Jun 23, 2023 10:32

Thanks Ants: May 21, 2004; #essereFerrari

My unscientific theory is that the more "shorts" videos that can be generated for YouTube and Instagram of pundits doing forced cracking up laughing, the worse their punditry is. None of these rules apply to Ian Wright who is cool and good.

# ? Jun 23, 2023 10:52

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

Jose posted:

my mam who doesn't watch or follow football at all loves micah richards and thinks he's extremely funny in case you're curious as to his specific audience

I confess to quite liking Richards, particularly his dynamic with Shearer/Lineker in some of the longer-form videos they put out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtjL6H-BjY4

It's me, I'm Jose's mam

# ? Jun 23, 2023 11:17

The Perfect Element: Dec 5, 2005; "This is a bit of a... a poof song"

I liked Richards before he became ubiquitous, and before he started appearing on that skybet ad squealing 'ello, Roy!'

Also the fact that on the ad for the motd podcast, Lineker says 'and more laughs from this man' and then a clip of Richards squawking.

Home of this is really his fault per se, just over saturated.

# ? Jun 23, 2023 11:42

Cart: Sep 28, 2004; They see me rollin...

It increasingly seems to be more heading towards the vibe of the TNT NBA panel with Shaq, Barkley, Kenny smith etc.

Incredibly successful, but for a casual viewer feels like most half time shows are like the opening 20 mins of a podcast you don�t regularly listen to where they�re just warming up before the topic at hand, except they never get to it.

# ? Jun 23, 2023 12:55

wooger: Apr 16, 2005; YOU RESENT?

Cart posted:

It increasingly seems to be more heading towards the vibe of the TNT NBA panel with Shaq, Barkley, Kenny smith etc.

Incredibly successful, but for a casual viewer feels like most half time shows are like the opening 20 mins of a podcast you don�t regularly listen to where they�re just warming up before the topic at hand, except they never get to it.

They also have the same issue that UK comedy panel shows have too: a given set of ex footballer pundits are on everything all the time regardless of talent or likeability, 100% based on being signed up to a specific talent agency, very often one where the spouse of the show producer works.

At least they don�t end up doing arena tours with barely 20 minutes of material.

# ? Jun 23, 2023 13:06

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 14:31

TheRat: Aug 30, 2006

wooger posted:

They also have the same issue that UK comedy panel shows have too: a given set of ex footballer pundits are on everything all the time regardless of talent or likeability, 100% based on being signed up to a specific talent agency, very often one where the spouse of the show producer works.

At least they don�t end up doing arena tours with barely 20 minutes of material.

On the plus side that means you get Bob Mortimer all the time.

# ? Jun 23, 2023 13:18

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