|
It's hard to say which one could be considered the Uwe Boll of social media because they're both terrible, but I'd say Zuck because he's been terrible at it for longer.
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 18:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 22:15 |
|
|
Professor Beetus posted:Huh, in a testament to Google's uselessness, this wasn't even in my top ten results when I searched. I think it's unfortunate that they wasted all this time and money on it. But I am also very surprised they actually found something. Eh, the Navy & Coast Guard practice all the time. This time there's actual bodies to look for. https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1671940549912272896
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 19:12
|
|
|
Just got a wire alert that says the U.S. Navy apparently narrowed the search zone and knows the general location of the sub, but everyone on board is believed to be dead. Edit: Coast Guard says they have evidence that the sub was destroyed or damaged by a failure of the pressure chamber. https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1671956815091826700 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jun 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 19:58
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Just got a wire alert that says the U.S. Navy apparently narrowed the search zone and knows the general location of the sub, but everyone on board is believed to be dead. If so, ew. Human soda pop spraying out of a can
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 20:22
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Musk is at the "accept a fight from someone who actually trains, even if only on an amateur level, and proceeds to get their rear end kicked" phase of his Lowtax speedrun. It of course remains to be seen, but I'm very interested what the level of discussion will be about this a week from now. Musk fans seem really think that seeing him beat up Zuckerberg is in the realm of possibility, and with enough repeated reminders, Musk will have to shut down the conversation somehow because there is 0% chance he actually takes the fight. Backing down from a fight with Zuckerberg sounds absolutely humiliating, and the fanboys will be spouting "the man who tweets four hours a day has no time to fight, he's a little busy sending rockets into space" as their best defense. Why don't I think this is going away? Well, one man stands to make several millions personally from the event: https://themessenger.com/news/elon-musk-mark-zuckerberg-cage-fight-dana-white A huge proportion of Elon fans want to see him fight now. This is one of the very very VERY few ways he can let them down. I love it! parthenocarpy fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jun 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 20:58
|
|
|
Jesus III posted:If so, ew. Human soda pop spraying out of a can if i had to choose, i'd rather become goo faster than my nervous system can react rather than reenacting no exit with my fellow trapped billionaires
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:06
|
|
|
I know the implosion happens quickly, but would it be more like a bullet to the head, or a few seconds of the hull crushing you before you die?
Seph fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jun 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:08
|
|
|
duz posted:Eh, the Navy & Coast Guard practice all the time. This time there's actual bodies to look for. You mean debris to look for, right? Because there are absolutely no (human) bodies to look for at that depth. Or even a fraction of that depth.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:11
|
|
|
parthenocarpy posted:It of course remains to be seen, but I'm very interested what the level of discussion will be about this a week from now. Musk fans seem really think that seeing him beat up Zuckerberg is in the realm of possibility, and with enough repeated reminders, Musk will have to shut down the conversation somehow because there is 0% chance he actually takes the fight. Backing down from a fight with Zuckerberg sounds absolutely humiliating, and the fanboys will be spouting "the man who tweets four hours a day has no time to fight, he's a little busy sending rockets into space" as their best defense. He'll show up for the cameras, do the cringiest imitation of a wrestling promo you'll ever see, and turn the whole thing into a clownshow comedy act complete with bringing joke props into the ring and poo poo like that. If Zuck refuses to play along, he'll loudly accuse Zuck of being a humorless tryhard who's too stuck-up to have a bit of fun, and then use that as an excuse to bail.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:11
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:You mean debris to look for, right? Because there are absolutely no (human) bodies to look for at that depth. Or even a fraction of that depth. The relevant Mythbysters clip. NSFW? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY3fN4N3D8
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:15
|
|
|
Seph posted:I know the implosion happens quickly, but would it be more like a bullet to the head, or a few seconds of the hull crushing you before you die? you might have some warning ahead of time that there's a problem, but when the actual failure happened you'd be dead on the order of milliseconds. the pressure at that depth is one of those things were it's extreme enough that it's hard for the human brain to properly quantify
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:18
|
|
|
I can't quite parse what this means: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65967464 quote:The site of the fatal accident was believed to be 1,600ft (487m) off the bow of the Titanic wreck Does this mean it imploded 487 m under water or it imploded 487 m above where the Titanic is sitting?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:20
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:I can't quite parse what this means: neither - it exploded 487m away from the titanic in terms of north south or east west, not above it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:24
|
|
|
feedmyleg posted:The relevant Mythbysters clip. NSFW? Ironic that one of the crew here later died while trying to set an extreme record, in this case, land speed. And she did.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:25
|
|
|
GhostofJohnMuir posted:you might have some warning ahead of time that there's a problem, but when the actual failure happened you'd be dead on the order of milliseconds. the pressure at that depth is one of those things were it's extreme enough that it's hard for the human brain to properly quantify Thanks, I was imagining it crushing like a soda can over a few seconds, but it sounds like it would be much more violent and instantaneous.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:28
|
|
|
GhostofJohnMuir posted:if i had to choose, i'd rather become goo faster than my nervous system can react rather than reenacting no exit with my fellow trapped billionaires Seph posted:I know the implosion happens quickly, but would it be more like a bullet to the head, or a few seconds of the hull crushing you before you die?  but also almost assuredly exactly how it went down in this case too, if you're curiousa taste: quote:These were projected some distance, one section being found 10 metres (30 ft) vertically above the exterior pressure door. Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jun 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:28
|
|
|
The hull of this thing was carbon fiber. I know carbon fiber is strong and light and cool, but it fails catastrophically. Why would you choose something that gives no warning of catastrophic failure? Hubris like this is why people are mocking them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:38
|
|
|
Jesus III posted:The hull of this thing was carbon fiber. I know carbon fiber is strong and light and cool, but it fails catastrophically. Why would you choose something that gives no warning of catastrophic failure? Hubris like this is why people are mocking them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:41
|
|
|
Arivia posted:neither - it exploded 487m away from the titanic in terms of north south or east west, not above it. When news of them losing contact first broke, I saw a depth of around 1800 meters mentioned as the estimation of their depth by that point. If so, around that point you're looking at roughly 2600 pounds of pressure. That Mythbusters clip says it was 135 pounds of pressure, so around 95 meters. And the suit doesn't appear to have lost containment so it stopped getting crushed once the pressure inside the (partially crushed) helmet and suit equalized. That... isn't going to happen when the groversub's structure failed catastrophically while under several thousand pounds of pressure. They would've been dead before they had time to register what happened, let alone feel it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
Seph posted:Thanks, I was imagining it crushing like a soda can over a few seconds, but it sounds like it would be much more violent and instantaneous. Have you ever seen a cathode ray tube implode? Old TV, monitor? (Don't smash those btw., shards don't stop moving after the implosion, you can absolutely get hit by them) Imagine that, but over a hundred times more force. And more violent, because water has more mass than just some air. The forces involved are difficult for humans to comprehend because they are utterly outside of our normal experience.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 22:04
|
|
|
Shrecknet posted:The Byford Dolphin (just a wiki link) implosion is a well-documented and truly horrific event that is definitely Explosive decompression is the exact opposite of what happened with the Titan.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 22:15
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:When news of them losing contact first broke, I saw a depth of around 1800 meters mentioned as the estimation of their depth by that point. If so, around that point you're looking at roughly 2600 pounds of pressure. okay but i don't know why you quoted me explaining what "x distance off the bow" means
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 22:25
|
|
|
Shrecknet posted:The Byford Dolphin (just a wiki link) implosion is a well-documented and truly horrific event that is definitely That exploded and decompressed, which is different from the titan which would have imploded and compressed. Which suggests to me that what happened to the Titan would have been the literal exact opposite of what happened on the byrford dolphin lol
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 22:39
|
|
|
OctaMurk posted:That exploded and decompressed, which is different from the titan which would have imploded and compressed. Which suggests to me that what happened to the Titan would have been the literal exact opposite of what happened on the byrford dolphin lol Their organs violently entered their bodies?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 22:44
|
|
|
Their bodies violently entered their organs.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 22:54
|
|
|
The force involved in the Byford Dolphin incident was much, much lower than in the sub implosion. At least an order of magnitude less. It's a good point of reference though. That was just some compressed air and it did unspeakable things to people.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 23:00
|
|
|
Antigravitas posted:That was just some compressed air and it did unspeakable things to people.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 23:13
|
|
|
Tech Nightmares 6: their bodies violently entered their organs
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 23:14
|
|
|
Antigravitas posted:The force involved in the Byford Dolphin incident was much, much lower than in the sub implosion. At least an order of magnitude less. its not a good point of reference tho? The byrford dolphin pressure chamber was at high pressure of 9 atm, so when it was breached the pressure and contents were explosively decompressed to 1 atm. In the titan sub, the inside would have been at lower pressure than the outside, so the contents would have been crushed, not exploded
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 23:37
|
|
|
Jesus III posted:The hull of this thing was carbon fiber. I know carbon fiber is strong and light and cool, but it fails catastrophically. Why would you choose something that gives no warning of catastrophic failure? Hubris like this is why people are mocking them. Of course, this lot probably used a batch of carbon fiber that fell of the back of a lorry somewhere with the lowest manufacturing standards in the world, or “the most economically sound choice” as their CEO would doubtless have put it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 01:04
|
|
|
pumpinglemma posted:At that pressure there isn’t really anything you could make the hull out of that would have any intermediate phase between “everything is fine” and “soda can that’s been through a hydraulic press”. The moment any actual crack in the hull develops, the overall structural integrity is hosed enough that you’re on a one-way trip to Red Goo City over the next few fractions of a second. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with using a material that fails catastrophically when it fails if every failure is already catastrophic. The complaint I saw, and I am not a materials engineer, was that carbon fiber doesn't hold up well to repeated stress. Which is fine when it's a bike frame and you can curse and lay down another few thousand, but is very bad on a vehicle that by its nature will be stressed repeatedly on every trip.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 01:24
|
|
|
James Cameron had a few things to say:quote:“We’ve never had an accident like this,” James Cameron, the Oscar-winning director of “Titanic,” said on Thursday. I found this article because I was googling to learn more about James Cameron’s sub cause I kept seeing it pop up as an example of what to do right. Well it turns out that his sub also wasn’t certified because he didn’t feel like doing it. The difference of course is that Cameron’s sub fits 1 person and the only person who would be in it was Cameron himself, so he didn’t feel the need to go through certification. The one that imploded was meant for tourists and Camera says they absolutely should have certified it. Also if I understand what Cameron was saying in the last bit of the article, it would appear that the CEO might have gotten a warning from the hull integrity sensors that the thing is going to implode. What a way to go knowing that you’ve killed everyone on board but everyone else is too busy looking out the window at the titanic to know what’s going on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 01:39
|
|
|
We all lived in a yellow submarine
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 01:54
|
|
|
I feel like the normal human experience that most resembles the timeframe it would take to implode is popping a balloon. Like, not in terms of forces involved or anything, but just how fast it appears to happen, how our brains can't even process it until it's over.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 01:56
|
|
|
Yeah that's what I understood too from reading various articles. But Cameron says that the Titan, theoretically, has a network of sensors on the hull to tell the pilot the hull's integrity. The idea being that if the lights lit up the pilot could abandon the dive and rise back up. Theoretically. Practically he says with the carbon fiber material the pilot might get warned of an impending breech but would have no time to actually do anything about it. So he may very well have died after making GBS threads in his pants if he was warned about it ahead of time. At least that's what I understood from the article.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 02:00
|
|
|
In any case, I think we can be certain that it was very quick Better than chocking to death in a submersed coffin imo
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 02:04
|
|
|
According to Twitter, the porthole was rated for 1300m, and they were going down to 4000. Some Bethesda levels of meeting technical requirements there
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 02:04
|
|
|
Mister Facetious posted:According to Twitter, the porthole was rated for 1300m, and they were going down to 4000. Fallout 20,000
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 02:12
|
|
|
Arsenic Lupin posted:The complaint I saw, and I am not a materials engineer, was that carbon fiber doesn't hold up well to repeated stress. Which is fine when it's a bike frame and you can curse and lay down another few thousand, but is very bad on a vehicle that by its nature will be stressed repeatedly on every trip. - Carbon fiber composites are only very strong in tension. They are not particularly strong in shear or compression (typically slightly weaker than steel). The shear and compression properties mostly depend on the plastic matrix around the fibers themselves. Essentially you have a mesh of fibers inside a bunch of glue. If you put force on it so that you're trying to stretch the fibers, they're very strong. If you put force on it so that you're trying to just bend & push them around, the matrix will crack instead and the fibers will move. You can build a good tank for holding pressure in easily since the pressure is trying to stretch your tank walls bigger and elongate the fibers. Holding pressure out is harder - One of the nifty things about steel is it has a fatigue limit. If the amount of stress you put on it is small enough, you can load and unload it infinitely without any microscopic crack growth, so it never fails. Aluminum doesn't have that, any cyclic loading will increase cracks and eventually break it. Crack growth in aluminum is at least pretty well characterized though, and there is some ability to inspect for how far cracks have gotten. Carbon fiber composites don't have a fatigue limit either, but crack growth is less well understood + there is less you can inspect before it catastrophically breaks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 03:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 22:15 |
|
|
pumpinglemma posted:Of course, this lot probably used a batch of carbon fiber that fell of the back of a lorry somewhere with the lowest manufacturing standards in the world, or “the most economically sound choice” as their CEO would doubtless have put it. They didn't use bad carbon fiber but the company that built the tube for them did a poo poo job. ~4 years ago a 6x5' section delaminated and had to be cut out. The person that did the repair quit the company when the company refused to have it inspected to make sure the repair was done correctly. It's really god drat important to completely saturate the fibers with epoxy resin because on its own carbon fiber is just loosely woven cloth.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 03:19
|
|