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I remember the pandora tomorrow multiplayer demo being the fuckin coolest poo poo. Very intense cat and mouse.
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May 3, 2023 14:40
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Cthulu Carl posted:The part of the I think last mission where Sam's surrounded by guards and surrendering, then the lights go out and you just start dropping them was pretty loving awesome. Oh, missed this. Yeah, that was a cool moment! I also quite liked the train mission in Pandora Tomorrow. Also, I may have emptied a full SC2k mag into the final encounter with the villain/mastermind in PT... I was sneaking towards him but accidentally made some noise and alerted him, so I instantly put more holes through him than a cheese grater. Just out of pure instinct, since I was startled by the abrupt noise I made.  Never ended up replaying that mission... no idea if there's a different ending for taking him alive, heh
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May 3, 2023 14:43
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Chaos Theory gameplay still holds up really well. The controls are a bit weird on PC, but you get used to it. Being able to use the mousewheel to sneak faster/slower was awesome and it's a shame other stealth games didn't incorporate it.
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May 3, 2023 16:00
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Seventh Arrow posted:Chaos Theory gameplay still holds up really well. The controls are a bit weird on PC, but you get used to it. Being able to use the mousewheel to sneak faster/slower was awesome and it's a shame other stealth games didn't incorporate it. how its not a standard is beyond me
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May 3, 2023 16:58
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trying to jack off posted:also remembering playing the original hitman back in the day and finding it insanely frustrating rear end back then, god knows how badly thats aged lol It's a shame, there's some stuff from the originals I miss, particularly 47 being quite vulnerable rather than the invincible terminator he is in future games, but they just are not very good these days lol
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May 3, 2023 17:18
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Even the second one doesn't really hold up. It was possibly my first stealth game, but it was extremely unclear at the time what constituted a proper disguise and how you could evade detection (i.e., are you allowed to run? How close can you get to the guards?) You could see that they were making improvements to the way stealth was being handled, though. Oh, and also that level in Japan with the snipers, ugh.
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May 3, 2023 17:30
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trying to jack off posted:also remembering playing the original hitman back in the day and finding it insanely frustrating rear end back then, god knows how badly thats aged lol I managed the tutorial of Blood Money after playing Hitman 2016 but the controls were so clunky I couldn't face doing any more
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May 3, 2023 21:49
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blood money has one thing over 2016 in my book, which is that accidents don't count against your rating it's such a little thing, but it means when you blow your cover, you get the fun panicked game of trying not to lose containment- knocking out the witnesses and trying to find a quick way to make their deaths look like accidents before anybody else shows up and even if you manage it, you don't necessarily know if you succeeded 100%. too many "accidents" can still raise your violence level enough to ruin your rating, and it's possible you didn't catch every witness 2016 is a lot clearer about how your disguise gets blown- you have to stop a civilian before they get to a guard or a guard before they use their radio- but it doesn't really matter because as soon as somebody spots you, you've already lost silent assassin. if you leave them alive it counts against you as a witness, if you kill them in a way that looks accidental it still counts against you as an unnecessary death. it loses that sense of uncertainty and feeling like you just might have pulled this off like the delightful rascal you are. instead you just instantly know that you failed also in blood money, even if you fail, you find out by getting the consolation prize of the game calling you like "noisy phantom" or "the bowler"
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May 3, 2023 22:53
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Blood Money was the most amazing thing I ever spent hundreds of hours doing but I haven’t been able to get into the new ones that way, even though they seem like they may well be carrying the spirit forward and better than ever.
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May 3, 2023 23:07
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One thing I'll say against the new ones is that they're very... uh... digital? Everything is either on or off, a lot of the opportunities for clean kills are based around specific prompts that come up in pretty arbitrary situations that follow a specific "story" route. It makes me miss tbe messier experimental approach of the older games a bit, where you were never sure if you had come up with an inventive approach the designers never intended or if there was a better way of doing it - now, you get an achievement and specific dialogue and maybe a cutscene for coming up with a specific clever kill even if you had the breadcrumb hints turned off. On the other hand everything works properly and they're still great games, just a little "cleaner" than I maybe like. Some levels (thinking of Berlin in 3 in particular) are still very classic style and they own
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May 4, 2023 17:23
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Gone Rogue         Stealth. Action. Tactical. Orwellian. Layered. Immersive. These are descriptions that one could apply to AskaLot Games' March 2023 title, "Gone Rogue" - but do they really apply? Well for starters, the trailer describes the game as "action stealth" and that seems like a bit of a misnomer to me. From what I've seen of the mechanics, although you could play it that way, I think you would be better served by using a more traditional stealth approach. It is also somewhat tactical, but you only control one person, so it's a lot simpler from that perspective. You play the part of Jack, a down-on-his-luck slum-dweller in an Orwellian state that features lots of the usual surveillance, oppression, war, propaganda, and all the typical trappings of the genre. Jack develops some thieving skills out of necessity, but, with some mentorship and equipment, gradually starts becoming a stealth wunderkind. Each map will drop you off in a strategic location meant to undermine THE STATE in one way or another, using your ever-growing array of gadgets, perks, specialties, skills, and drugs to get through the place undetected. Fortunately, the game uses hard saves - this is important in my book, because it encourages experimentation. You have three of the most recent quicksaves (and a checkpoint when completing your main goal) to choose from, and I think this is sufficient - better than an all-checkpoint system, while not allowing too much save-scumming. I actually ran into a power outage shortly after saving the game. Apparently this corrupted the file and wouldn't let me load the most recent - or any - saves. I hopped on the dev's Discord (which is linked in the main menu) and he took my corrupted file and sent it back to me fixed; so if nothing else, I can say that they definitely have good customer service! Although, having said all that, there may not be much experimenting to do: the levels are fairly linear and don't really favor a Chaos Theory-esque "many approaches" solution. It's not so bad, though - you still get some solid stealth gameplay and there are enough challenges in every level to keep you occupied. You get a lot of game for your money, though: every level can take at least an hour, and there are 16 missions in total. One thing that's worth noting is that you will often have a choice between two missions and choosing one cuts you off from the other. I mention this because things like that can drive some people crazy...I think it's largely negligible though. There are a few weird design decisions throughout: if Jack is overburdened, he can't move at all. Most games handle overburdening by making the character slower, so here you have no choice but to delete stuff from your inventory. There's a load of stuff to steal in every mission though, so not being able to sell that pair of boots isn't exactly a crippling decision. There's no way to "preview" or look ahead on upper and lower floors, potentially letting you set off alarms or run into guards. The big one for me is the fact that lockpicks and other break-in items are consumable. Usually if you bring a fresh set of everything, you shouldn't run into problems, but it will always be in the back of my mind that one could conceivably run out of lockpicks or wirecutters during the course of a mission. Worse still, some lasers and cameras re-enable after a certain period of time, necessitating their re-disabling. I suppose someone could argue that you had limited items in the Thief games as well, but running out of water arrows didn't lock you out of snatching loot. Water arrows (and things like it) were just a convenience, so the comparison isn't quite apt. Finally if you're a grammar tyrant, you should be warned that this game is ESL-city: "A new pub has opened on Patriot Street! We sell only delicious beer, and bring tasteless one here." "Love what is destinated to you." And so on. I doubt that this will bother most people though, and it even gives it a kind of rough (Russian) charm. There's a lot that the game does right, however. It gives you a lot of information about what will and won't get you detected. When lockpicking, a visible circle will show the area of the noise being made, allowing you to avoid guards who get too close. Guards themselves have vision cones, as do cameras. Any electronics control boxes will show you what devices will be disabled when you sabotage them. Of course, there are dogs roaming about (normal dogs and bloodhounds) but the game gives you sight and scent radiuses (radii?) to avoid them. You get an easily identifiable sound if you're close to being detected. Even if you run, the auditory range of your footsteps is displayed, so the developer has done a lot to eliminate the guesswork from sneaking around. All in all, there's a lot to like here. I had a lot to criticize, but I think the game still offers some classic top-down stealth - moreso than Winter Ember certainly. The later levels really ramp up in difficulty though, I could only complete them on easy and even then just barely. Nevertheless, the developer mentioned a big update patch coming next week, so that will hopefully address some of these issues. The game is worth buying in my opinion, but if you're hesitant about some of the downsides, then wait for a sale.
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May 22, 2023 19:43
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Ohh, very interesting. Especially since they opted for the old Bethesda encumbrance system!  That does sound cool though - I'll have to keep an eye on it, come sale time
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May 23, 2023 02:18
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No, I'm not reviewing the Gollum game 
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Jun 23, 2023 00:34
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Seventh Arrow posted:No, I'm not reviewing the Gollum game heheheh yeah I've seen some videos of it and, uh, it... seems bad. So yeah, I don't blame ya! Shame really, since I wouldn't have minded a proper sneaky LOTR game
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Jun 23, 2023 00:38
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Seventh Arrow posted:No, I'm not reviewing the Gollum game Lol. I watched my friend play chapter 1 and 2 and it was the worst stealth I've seen in a long time
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Jun 23, 2023 00:42
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i didnt realise it was a stealth game lmfao
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Jun 23, 2023 01:22
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Seventh Arrow posted:No, I'm not reviewing the Gollum game
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Jun 23, 2023 02:03
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Seventh Arrow posted:No, I'm not reviewing the Gollum game lol
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Jun 23, 2023 02:13
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it looks like a forced stealth segment in a lovely ps2 platformer but its the entire game
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Jun 23, 2023 02:14
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elf help book posted:it looks like a forced stealth segment in a lovely ps2 platformer but its the entire game Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Pretty hilarious really - I wonder what the regular devs working on it were thinking, at the time. Probably something like "poo poo, they really want to release this now? Oh no..."
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Jun 23, 2023 02:18
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:One thing I'll say against the new ones is that they're very... uh... digital? Everything is either on or off, a lot of the opportunities for clean kills are based around specific prompts that come up in pretty arbitrary situations that follow a specific "story" route. It makes me miss tbe messier experimental approach of the older games a bit, where you were never sure if you had come up with an inventive approach the designers never intended or if there was a better way of doing it - now, you get an achievement and specific dialogue and maybe a cutscene for coming up with a specific clever kill even if you had the breadcrumb hints turned off. i think i wouldn't mind the "press the button" kills as much if it weren't pretty easy to slip away from all of them. hokkaido should be a hornet's nest even when the death is an accident but everyone just slaps their forehead and goes back to business
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Jun 23, 2023 03:10
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Wormskull posted:Blood Money was the most amazing thing I ever spent hundreds of hours doing but I haven’t been able to get into the new ones that way, even though they seem like they may well be carrying the spirit forward and better than ever. i loved blood money the most and the only one never played was 1 i couldn't get into the new ones much tho until the third came out w/ them all tied together and fixed the mechanical flaws in the earlier versions, if you haven't tried that one it's totally worth it the only things missing from blood money are the human-shield move and dual wielding, but the guns feel better all around
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Jun 23, 2023 08:23
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oddium posted:i think i wouldn't mind the "press the button" kills as much if it weren't pretty easy to slip away from all of them. hokkaido should be a hornet's nest even when the death is an accident but everyone just slaps their forehead and goes back to business They deliberately made the AI blinder and stupider in 3 which given what they've done with the games now applies to however you're probably playing the older levels as well, which is really annoying. Nakar in the Hitman Games thread has given some good breakdowns of this but it's pretty apparent if you play some of the older levels and mess with guard line of sight and stuff, I remember just sort of zigzagging past enemies in Isle of Sgail and they didn't notice me at all and being like "I definitely couldn't have gotten away with this in 2, wtf"
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Jun 23, 2023 09:07
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Intravenous         Ever think you know someone, but yet they turn out to be completely different? Yeah, well we may have a case of that in this very thread. For you see, the benevolent Grand Poobah Waterbuffalo of the Stealth Games thread, Major Isoor, was kind enough to gift me a game, to which I am truly grateful. BUT! Once I started reading about and playing the game, I was pulled in to a very dark world. It seems that Isoor gifted me a game about killing homeless people. Yeah, that's right. A good part of the game involves going on a rampage through a derelict slum, putting as much lead in society's forgotten as possible. And just to make sure they're well and truly gone, you can crush their skulls under your boot just to make sure the deed is done. So if you're homeless and reading this thread, you might want to hide under your cardboard box if you see Isoor coming your way (although he's a major stealth aficionado, so he may be expecting that). Ok ok, I may be dissembling a bit at MI's expense. The truth is, your character soon starts encountering armed thugs and mercenaries, revealing that there is more behind his revenge-fueled rampage than we're led to believe. The story is pretty dumb and the "twist" at the end is something that signals itself early on with road flares and flashing Christmas tree lights. But that's ok, because the stealth gameplay more than makes up for it. Because of the graphics and the top-down viewpoint there may be an initial temptation to rush through it, Hotline Miami style. You'll miss out if you do that though because, visuals aside, this is a stealth game through-and-through and you'll likely enjoy it more if you take the thorough, sneaky approach that we all love so much. Intravenous cribs a lot from Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, believe it or not. Sure, it may not be in first-person but for one thing, it hails the return of the mouse-wheel to slow down or speed up that CT afficionados miss so much. You get a pair of night vision goggles that use the unmistakable 'fweeeeee' sound, you have a pistol that temporarily disables lights and cameras, tranquilizers, and the music even seems to try emulating Amon Tobin's classic soundtrack. It does go out of its way to inform you that the game is optimized for keyboard & mouse, after all - however, enthusiasm for the mousewheel acceleration is hampered a bit when you find out that you also scroll through 'floor loot' with the mousewheel and you will be unable to slow down or speed up if you're currently wading through a bunch of items on the ground. It's not overly annoying, but it may be something to keep in mind if you're sneaking up on an unsuspecting mobster. You can choose from a variety of automatic weapons but these are only of interest if you're intending on going loud (don't). Aside from that, you have a suppressed pistol, a tranquilizer rifle, a taser, a throwable knife and some various grenades and stealth gadgets. Ammo for non-lethal items is limited and you're not likely to find much or any of it lying around. Fortunately, your melee options are somewhat robust and you may tend to favor this approach if you're trying to maximize sneakiness. One thing that's interesting about Intravenous is that it has plenty of challenges for you, no matter what difficulty level you select. There are manual saves thankfully, but on everything but 'Easy' they're quite limited so you have to plan them carefully (you get some extra saves when you complete an objective though). Also the guards apparently have an obsessive recollection of all of the doors that should be closed and lights that should be off. If something is out of sorts they will investigate - and this isn't one of those stealth games where they will give up after a few moments of confusion. They will continue to search around and they will alert guards around them, all because you forgot to close a door. Also, killing a guard will leave a pool of blood and trying to move him will leave a red, drippy trail to wherever you dump him. Of course, this can lead to some interesting ambushes but it can also lead to you being outnumbered if you're not careful. The bloodstains don't wash out in the rain, however, which would have been a nice touch. Reloading makes noise as well, which is something to keep in mind. I thought at first that these additional challenges would have been too nit-picky but they kept the game from being too cliche and had me rethinking how to approach each situation. Plus it adds a bit of realism to a pixel game about taking out an army of mobsters. This game is certainly not for any pacifists in the audience - although there are lethal options, you're forced to kill many bosses, and one level has you going on a murder spree with no non-lethal options (I almost laughed when even the tranquilizer rifle caused bad guys to go down in a pool of their own blood). All in all, Intravenous is a stealth game with some really neat challenges and I would recommend it, sale or no sale and also can we do something about the lunatic running this thread *eyes warily in Isoor's direction*
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Jun 27, 2023 05:25
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Hah! Yes, the storyline is definitely the game's weakest point. The "killing homeless/slum-dwelling drug-addicts" aspect (which the game really forces down your throat at the start) was pretty cringe-worthy IMO. The later 2/3 of the game is more oriented towards taking out mercs and mobsters, which is... a step up. No idea why there was such an emphasis on hating the poor at the start though - the dev probably has some real weird views. The dev is also working on a sequel too, apparently - hopefully its story is an improvement! The gameplay is solid, but drat they need to change their focus from poor drug-users to... anything else, really Either way, the gameplay is pretty great, I found! Definitely very Chaos Theory-esque as you said, which is what hooked me. The AI is actually pretty decent too, compared to other stealth shooters. (Even in more recent games. Especially with games like Hitman) In other games they tend to just rush through to your position and get mowed down, but in Intravenous the hostiles tend to hang back and move in groups, trying to cordon off the building you're in (or thought to be in) before attempting to advance as a unit, covering windows etc. I mean, its surprisingly solid AI is fit for more of a military-themed stealth shooter, rather than one that takes place in slums and mob hideouts! Like, some of the hostiles go from smoking meth from a pipe on the couch with their buddies to executing an assault like a SWAT team. They absolutely put the Hitman guards and Genome soldiers to shame!
Major Isoor fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jun 27, 2023 |
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Jun 27, 2023 05:56
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Major Isoor posted:No idea why there was such an emphasis on hating the poor at the start though - the dev probably has some real weird views. I wonder if he isn't just paranoid about being hit with a lawsuit.
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Jun 27, 2023 07:09
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A spiritual sequel to Condemned AND Chaos Theory...
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Jun 27, 2023 09:27
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god condemned kicked rear end...
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Jun 27, 2023 09:56
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i liked what i played of intravenous except some of the egregious stuff but i think something else came out and i never went back to it. if the back half of the game is better story wise ill probably finish it for my goty list this year
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Jun 27, 2023 22:21
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PSA: Metal Gear Solid: Master Collection Vol. 1 is available for preorder on Steam!  Coming out in late October. I'd given up hope of ever seeing MGS3 hit PC, so wow, I'm keen for that!
Major Isoor fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jun 30, 2023 |
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Jun 30, 2023 10:39
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I will be holding off until we find out if the ports are any good lol, apparently they don't have keyboard and mouse support at all, and while I'd be playing with a gamepad anyway it doesn't bode well
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Jun 30, 2023 11:15
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I will be holding off until we find out if the ports are any good lol, apparently they don't have keyboard and mouse support at all, and while I'd be playing with a gamepad anyway it doesn't bode well Yeah that's a fair point - I didn't notice that there wasn't M+KB support! That's uh, not the best sign, even if a controller is the best option for the game either way! We'll see how it goes, I guess. Hopefully it's good and not a quick cash-grab
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Jun 30, 2023 14:24
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wonder how it will handle pressure sensitive buttons, the original mgs2 port was terrible because of it lol
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Jun 30, 2023 14:28
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metal gear with mouse and keyboard seems really weird to me anyway
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Jun 30, 2023 16:38
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Nutmeg posted:metal gear with mouse and keyboard seems really weird to me anyway V is genuinely good with m+k
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Jun 30, 2023 22:16
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I've been playing NOLF 1 again and trying to get through the East Germany level without setting off any alarms is hairpulling
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Jul 3, 2023 11:02
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the mandatort stealth levels are a blemish on both the nolf games. its insane to think there was a period of time where every fps thought they had to have one lol
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Jul 3, 2023 12:22
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the stealth in rtcw is pretty good though, they actually tried to design some systems in there. the town where you have to sneak around and kill commanders is epic
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Jul 3, 2023 12:24
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:V is genuinely good with m+k ill agree there that is how i played it. maybe im just thinking of 1-3 where most of the time you're dealing with stuck camera angels instead of behind the back/over the shoulder action
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Jul 3, 2023 13:27
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trying to jack off posted:the mandatort stealth levels are a blemish on both the nolf games. its insane to think there was a period of time where every fps thought they had to have one lol True - although the NOLF2 ones are nowhere near as bad as the original's, from memory. Especially since you could pin enemies to walls with your crossbow, which kinda makes up for having to avoid alarms, right?
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Jul 4, 2023 03:22
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