(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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tiaz posted:Everyone else has to agree with Article 4 for it to have any real consequences to the belligerent too. I think the US signalling "we regard that action as justifying a military response under Article 5" is useful since US territory isn't really affected. It seems like a re-iteration of some previously stated responses, maybe in response to some of the "hey, I'm not saying we should, but imagine we did a first strike and the US didn't respond" pontificating over the last week or so. Neither are policy, but best nip that poo poo in the bud without escalating it to a red-line, perhaps?
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Jun 23, 2023 19:37
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tiaz posted:Everyone else has to agree with Article 4 for it to have any real consequences to the belligerent too. I think the US signalling "we regard that action as justifying a military response under Article 5" is useful since US territory isn't really affected. Eric Cantonese posted:I was digging around Twitter (probably a mistake) and I saw some reports of Ukraine managing to shoot down at least 2 KA-52s. Is that legit? The last thing I read was that those helicopters were one of many things causing trouble for the Ukrainians on the offensive and that Ukraine was having a hard time responding to the aerial threat the helicopters presented.
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Jun 23, 2023 19:41
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mobby_6kl posted:It does, but "...political independence or security of any of the Parties is threatened" is something that most could agree is happening vs "armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America" which is quite a stretch. Of course none of this really matters, they could choose to nuke Putin right now if they wanted. Yeah, I don't have anything to lean on with saying A4 or A5 is easier to justify or enforce, I'm nowhere near a lawyer. I could see the argument for radioactive materials landing on your territory constituting an attack, but "We're gonna gently caress you up if you pull that poo poo" seems useful either way. mobby_6kl posted:I don't know about right now but shitload of them have been downed already, like a significant part of the fleet. So I wouldn't be surprised. iirc 30-50% of their pre-war paper strength have been shot down. idk if the number I saw was "actually serviceable airframes that can be in combat Today/this month" or "it's claimed that VVS acquired this many ever" though.
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Jun 23, 2023 19:52
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Russians are hopping mad about the bridges yesterday, it seems. 10 bombers took off and Mig-31Ks as well.
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Jun 23, 2023 19:56
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This is a pretty interesting discussion but meanwhile the fight between Wagner and the MoD went hot and it sure looks like Prigozhin is staging a coup. https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672314259907158028
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Jun 23, 2023 20:00
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SHAAAIGUUUU!!!!!!
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Jun 23, 2023 20:00
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https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672318004393025550
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Jun 23, 2023 20:00
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Dandywalken posted:SHAAAIGUUUU!!!!!! GERARISMAAAV
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Jun 23, 2023 20:02
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Noticing a lot of similarities between the submarine and this war, especially Putin's Kremlin regime as a whole 
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Jun 23, 2023 20:02
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tiaz posted:iirc 30-50% of their pre-war paper strength have been shot down. idk if the number I saw was "actually serviceable airframes that can be in combat Today/this month" or "it's claimed that VVS acquired this many ever" though.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:02
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spankmeister posted:This is a pretty interesting discussion but meanwhile the fight between Wagner and the MoD went hot and it sure looks like Prigozhin is staging a coup. And there is this, over in the IVFW thread: PurpleXVI posted:https://twitter.com/KyivPost/status/1672312988445949952
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Jun 23, 2023 20:03
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Yeah, at the risk of indulging my and this thread's bloodthirst, Wagner and the MoD having a go at each other sounds really good. That being said, I'm gonna go all  here and propose that this is somehow some kind of controlled opposition move; after all, Wagner apparently has facilities near Russian bases in the Motherland proper, why would Prigozhin want to jeopardize those? True, that kind of move seems beyond the geniuses involved in the invasion, but still.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:10
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Some suspect the footage Pigozhin claims to be that of his rear bases being attacked was staged, and I agree that it's most likely been staged. It's too early to say what might happen and what's going on.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:14
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yall ever put 2 spiders in a jar and shake it so they fight
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Jun 23, 2023 20:15
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I dont buy it yet But I'm wanting to believe
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Jun 23, 2023 20:15
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The Russian military unloading on the only one of their forces whose made any progress in months, creating a new enemy behind their lines is so loving stupid that I refuse to believe it without a lot more proof
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Jun 23, 2023 20:17
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https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672297453603700744 gently caress off, you cynical liar.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:19
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Минобороны России ✔ Все распространяемые в социальных сетях от имени Е.Пригожина сообщения и видеокадры о якобы «нанесении МО РФ удара по «тыловым лагерям «ЧВК «Вагнер», не соответствуют действительности и являются информационной провокацией. Ministry of Defense of Russia ✔ All messages and video footage disseminated on social networks on behalf of Yevgeny Prigozhin about the alleged "strike by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the" rear camps "PMC" Wagner "do not correspond to reality and are an information provocation. https://t.me/mod_russia/27801
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Jun 23, 2023 20:23
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Deki posted:The Russian military unloading on the only one of their forces whose made any progress in months, creating a new enemy behind their lines is so loving stupid that I refuse to believe it without a lot more proof On the other hand, when has something being loving stupid ever stopped the Russian military?
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Jun 23, 2023 20:26
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I'm not really concerned about Prigozhin's dog and pony show one way or another
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Jun 23, 2023 20:27
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Jul 1st is his deadline to hand over Wagner to MoD, so people were anticipating things getting spicy as we get closer to the deadline. Although I'm sure there's a big chance he's just doing his usual exaggeration social media circus to try to paint MoD as incompetent and weasel his way out of that order.
Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jun 23, 2023 |
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Jun 23, 2023 20:31
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the popes toes posted:Минобороны России If they officially deny it, it’s gotta be 200% true
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Jun 23, 2023 20:35
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 So uh...huh Are we in full coup territory or small scale civil war between internal divisions? Holy loving poo poo
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Jun 23, 2023 20:39
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TulliusCicero posted:
Maybe neither! Prigozhin has said some wild poo poo before, so I wouldn't march on red square just yet.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:41
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Deki posted:The Russian military unloading on the only one of their forces whose made any progress in months, creating a new enemy behind their lines is so loving stupid that I refuse to believe it without a lot more proof are you posting from feb 21, 2022?
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Jun 23, 2023 20:44
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Enjoy the news that trickles out but avoid drawing any conclusions. Things could be fine or they couldve already imploded into paste, we wont know one way or the other for a while.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:45
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Remember when Prigozhin was furious that the MOD mined Wagner's escape route and it turns out they didn't, the US just secretly gave Ukraine some mine-laying artillery shells lol
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Jun 23, 2023 20:46
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zone posted:Some suspect the footage Pigozhin claims to be that of his rear bases being attacked was staged, and I agree that it's most likely been staged. It's too early to say what might happen and what's going on.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:47
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hahahaha gently caress me it might actually be happening https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672329674729373696?s=20 Voenkor named Aleksandr Smirnov visited the Wagner camp that the MOD was just accused of shelling https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1672309482313883660?s=20
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Jun 23, 2023 20:48
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HonorableTB posted:Remember when Prigozhin was furious that the MOD mined Wagner's escape route and it turns out they didn't, the US just secretly gave Ukraine some mine-laying artillery shells lol The real secret story is Ukraine has been loving with Wagner to make it look like the MOD is out to get them, which would be an  coup d'tat.Oh God I want that 
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Jun 23, 2023 20:48
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I made the "Russia caught with their Pantsir down" joke in the last thread like 8 months ago and no one even empty quoted me! Robbed again of my recognition for making very obvious puns!
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Jun 23, 2023 20:49
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HonorableTB posted:hahahaha gently caress me it might actually be happening It's either beautiful misdirection by Ukraine or them cranking the knob on a new advantage.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:50
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Girkin says a coup is underway https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672319660329410561?s=20 Prigozhin responds: https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672326440195375105?s=20 Ministry of Defense has entered the chat https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672325649510420481?s=20
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Jun 23, 2023 20:51
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Zero VGS posted:I made the "Russia caught with their Pantsir down" joke in the last thread like 8 months ago and no one even empty quoted me! Robbed again of my recognition for making very obvious puns! I'm proud of you Zero VGS. 
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Jun 23, 2023 20:52
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Welp. Time to queue up "Ride of the Valkyries" and see how close this clown car gets to Moscow.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:55
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https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1672332078904475650?s=20 lmao lmAO LMAO
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Jun 23, 2023 20:58
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OAquinas posted:Welp. Time to queue up "Ride of the Valkyries" and see how close this clown car gets to Moscow. ...Why are they not starting with like, a coup on Moscow itself? Don't you ussually want to decapitate leadership as soon as possible? You are going to attack back INTO Russia from occupied Ukraine, and drive for how many miles to Moscow? Uhhh, do they know how to coup? I feel Trump planned this better.
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Jun 23, 2023 20:58
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https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672329967902904320?t=9heRowXXtofFg8ilB8KCdg&s=19
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Jun 23, 2023 20:58
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This is the sign of an extremely winning country
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Jun 23, 2023 20:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rJoB7y6Ncs EDIT: Let me be clear, odds are this isn't actually the end for Putin, just a way for the boyars to assign blame to each other, but if it's happening I'm gonna lol all the way to Ukraine's final victory.
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Jun 23, 2023 21:00
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