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I said come in! posted:I love both. I just love RPGs in general. Gimmie all of the RPGs of different sizes. AA & AAA, melodramatic, and more simple stories, next-gen graphics and 2.5D HD. Inject it directly into my eyeballs. I play them for the stories and I like both, but the combat is always very brain in low power or off mode. Which imo is fine. I really enjoyed DQ11 but I didn't finish it because I was bored of the combat. Returned to FFX and FF12 recently and didn't get that far through either because the combat was boring. I have no idea how I got through FF12 when it came out. What a loving slog.
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Jun 24, 2023 05:56
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FZeroRacer posted:no i agree, that most of the FF games end up getting vastly better with the next one or two revisions. it's just weird to see people act like all these FF games were garbage baby RPGs with poor RPG elements which is contrary to my experience of playing every final fantasy game out there lol. especially the spinoffs like X-2 or FF13-2 which go hog wild with the RPG mechanics. They are though. Like I love the franchise but their literal stated goal is to be a basic-rear end RPG for a wide audience and their mechanics are so simplified that you barely need to interact. Like to the point *multiple* games released without basic stats working correctly. It makes it work well for stuff like low-level challenges but you have to actively limit yourself for that. Like I don't mean it as an insult when I say that pretty much every FF game is designed as Someone's First RPG. That is their purpose.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:01
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Ooh yeah I remember reading about like FF2 having major issues with bugs and spells/abilities not working. There is a famous story of a programmer telling his boss to get hosed about not wanting to fix a bug, and actively writing the code in such a way as to make it impossible to fix. The game shipped for NES with the bug.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:03
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ImpAtom posted:They are though. Like I love the franchise but their literal stated goal is to be a basic-rear end RPG for a wide audience and their mechanics are so simplified that you barely need to interact. Like to the point *multiple* games released without basic stats working correctly. It makes it work well for stuff like low-level challenges but you have to actively limit yourself for that. Like I don't mean it as an insult when I say that pretty much every FF game is designed as Someone's First RPG. That is their purpose. i think every single FF5 release has a different slew of gamebreaking bugs to the point where each version has to be its own category.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:07
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Harrow posted:The expert grid is in the remasters--they're remasters of the International version, not the original. Yeah I misworded that. I mean not part of the original release.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:16
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FZeroRacer posted:ease of gameplay doesn't make them a basic RPG though, that's the thing that's orthogonal to your argument. a game doesn't have to be particularly difficult in order to offer up a indepth RPG experience, and that's why FF5 actually works so well because bosses are designed in such a way that multiple party variations can figure out different tricks to overcome them. it's sort of similar to Symphony of the Night which is exceedingly easy to break, but offers a ton of variation in content that you find and discover. that said you're right that a lot of FF games released in a state where bugs and stats literally did not work, but that's more of an issue of coding process than design lol. The thing is though that FF games are basic RPGs. FF5 is one of the most mechanically in-depth ones and even then most players will probably just default to Hit Hard. There is nothing wrong with being basic RPGs. FF uses this fact to do weird experimental stuff and focus on feeling cool and that's fine. That's the intended purpose! Like FF is legitimately a less 'hardcore' RPG franchise than Dragon Quest but that's okay because it isn't trying to be hardcore.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:19
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FZeroRacer posted:ease of gameplay doesn't make them a basic RPG though, that's the thing that's orthogonal to your argument. a game doesn't have to be particularly difficult in order to offer up a indepth RPG experience, and that's why FF5 actually works so well because bosses are designed in such a way that multiple party variations can figure out different tricks to overcome them. it's sort of similar to Symphony of the Night which is exceedingly easy to break, but offers a ton of variation in content that you find and discover. that said you're right that a lot of FF games released in a state where bugs and stats literally did not work, but that's more of an issue of coding process than design lol. That’s true, though I wonder if the basic rpg elements are on purpose. At the point where I am now, a while after getting the third set of eikon powers and going to blow up the second mothercrystal, I feel like if the game had serious rpg elements, it would actually need a different difficulty level to account for people with system mastery. The combat has a lot of depth, but the depth mostly exists to let you stylishly clown on spongy, but non-threatening punching bags. If you could optimize a build, you’d probably just tear through everything without really engaging with the gameplay at all. Although, come to think of it, that’s wherw Stranger of Paradise’s endgame ends up with good build optimization, and I love that game, so maybe it would be fine.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:21
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ImpAtom posted:The thing is though that FF games are basic RPGs. FF5 is one of the most mechanically in-depth ones and even then most players will probably just default to Hit Hard. There is nothing wrong with being basic RPGs. FF uses this fact to do weird experimental stuff and focus on feeling cool and that's fine. That's the intended purpose! Like FF is legitimately a less 'hardcore' RPG franchise than Dragon Quest but that's okay because it isn't trying to be hardcore. im just saying there's a wide spectrum of FF games many of which i would not at all classify as being basic.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:31
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The more I play of this game, the more convinced I am that Gita Jackson in their Polygon review was just straight up lying about the game giving up on its themes partway through. The thing they complained about being abandoned has been the thing the entire plot has revolved around for like 12 hours of game now lol. They said they were bored by the story--maybe they started skipping cutscenes halfway through? I have no idea otherwise. The game is really good! I am honestly so glad the combat is easier than I thought it would be because I am bad at video games.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:52
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Rosalind posted:The more I play of this game, the more convinced I am that Gita Jackson in their Polygon review was just straight up lying about the game giving up on its themes partway through. The thing they complained about being abandoned has been the thing the entire plot has revolved around for like 12 hours of game now lol. Even the big ~final fantasy~ thing (big mid-game twist spoilers) reflects the exact same themes that that the politics are about. Ultima views Clive as nothing more than a vessel, a thing to be used much like the people of the world view Bearers as a whole.
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Jun 24, 2023 06:55
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Rosalind posted:The more I play of this game, the more convinced I am that Gita Jackson in their Polygon review was just straight up lying about the game giving up on its themes partway through. The thing they complained about being abandoned has been the thing the entire plot has revolved around for like 12 hours of game now lol. Other reviewers have this same problem. You all are getting really defensive about people not liking a video game
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Jun 24, 2023 06:57
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Only ~6 hours in and so much has happened
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Jun 24, 2023 06:58
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disagreeing with a review isnt getting defensive
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Jun 24, 2023 06:59
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Dpulex posted:Other reviewers have this same problem. You all are getting really defensive about people not liking a video game Ok yeah I don't want my post to be taken as a defense of the game so much as me being absolutely perplexed by the review which is from both a writer I had a lot of respect for and published in Polygon which is a favorite gaming site of mine.
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Jun 24, 2023 07:08
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All I care about is that I really love this game.
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Jun 24, 2023 07:25
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Clive rules https://twitter.com/ShareHoot/status/1672412106832900096?t=NNEibNIe_i1-VmB4Dm2v9Q&s=19
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Jun 24, 2023 07:36
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If I put up will o wykes, then lightning rod, then I gouge the lightning rod, is it as funny as I think it would be?
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Jun 24, 2023 07:40
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I was planning that very same thing. Will’o’the’wykes and lightning rod are both awesome.
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Jun 24, 2023 07:47
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Heithinn Grasida posted:I was planning that very same thing. Will’o’the’wykes and lightning rod are both awesome. I did the science and it was immediately unimpressive, at least against regular enemies, I will report back with how this works on something with a stagger bar when I find it.
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Jun 24, 2023 07:53
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It says in the description of the lightning rod that it does more damage if an enemy hits it. So I guess you're supposed to use it as another kind of counter.
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Jun 24, 2023 07:57
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Failboattootoot posted:I did the science and it was immediately unimpressive, at least against regular enemies, I will report back with how this works on something with a stagger bar when I find it. Both will’o’the’wykes and gouge are mediocre at health damage but tear through will (especially gouge), so I would definitely expect this to work better against heavy enemies. Lightning rod does really mess up light enemies if you bait them into hitting it, though.
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Jun 24, 2023 08:01
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I'm using eikon three judgement bolt as my finisher and it absolutely rules. Build the stagger bonus to 1.5x or better and hit them with the good stuff.
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Jun 24, 2023 08:01
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Hooded Man is a really cool dude huh? Also can't believe they did a (End of Oriflamme spoiler) "five years later" what a move from the game. Anyway, from trailers and everything I was expecting the game to feel like a Matsuno FF when honestly i'm kinda getting the opposite vibes from it now. The political drama hasn't been hitting at all but the character drama is very fun and all the magic and fantasy stuff always lands.
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Jun 24, 2023 08:23
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I've been to my third Mother Crystal. Titan was loving crazy. Like they are losing their minds harder with each passing fight, did get some fatigue on this one though after a bit. Lost Titan was kind of enough without the weird Gandalf and Balrog falling fall fight thing as a third phase even if it was funny watching Hugo try to reorient himself constantly. I still don't know what the gently caress is going on in the main plot besides Ultima wanting to touch some Clive. Also, Dion has a pretty nice butt. Good for him.
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Jun 24, 2023 08:27
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Rosalind posted:The more I play of this game, the more convinced I am that Gita Jackson in their Polygon review was just straight up lying about the game giving up on its themes partway through. The thing they complained about being abandoned has been the thing the entire plot has revolved around for like 12 hours of game now lol. Yeah the review was full of poo poo, and i'm 70% through the game. It's a ff plot and a very decent one. PS I got to the pivotal bahamut fight and its another one that platinum decided to add a lot too. So zetta slow. ntan1 fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Jun 24, 2023 |
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Jun 24, 2023 08:46
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Cid is a great character in this, but my actual favorite character is (dont click this until youre pretty deep into the story, like many hours in) his daughter, mid.
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Jun 24, 2023 08:56
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Just past the first point of no return (no clue if there's any more) and goddamn how do the eikon battles just keep getting better and better? The dash you get as Ifrit is so drat fun. Also I'm surprised that Ramuh was the third playable eikon, RIP Cid. Although it does make the thread discussion about main character Cids a lot funnier in hindsight.
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Jun 24, 2023 08:57
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Ibblebibble posted:Just past the first point of no return (no clue if there's any more) and goddamn how do the eikon battles just keep getting better and better? The dash you get as Ifrit is so drat fun. that fight was insanely epic. also had the same thought regarding cid as the main character lol
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Jun 24, 2023 09:06
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yeah the eikon battles keep getting better and when you think they cant top it they do.
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Jun 24, 2023 10:02
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Mainwaring posted:He has them all pinned to a sash like a boyscout 
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Jun 24, 2023 10:05
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Ibblebibble posted:Just past the first point of no return (no clue if there's any more) and goddamn how do the eikon battles just keep getting better and better? The dash you get as Ifrit is so drat fun. I glanced at all the non-secret trophies and saw that the trophies for Ramuh's actions were placed directly after Garuda, so lol spoiled by game format.
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Jun 24, 2023 10:15
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Books On Tape posted:I'm not expecting nor do I want an open world, but this is really loving linear. There's a lot of corridors, but there's some outdoor areas that are a bit more open-ish even if they're nowhere near open world levels of freedom. I don't think it's the areas that suck, though. There's just no reason to go out there. You can run straight down the critical path or you can divert, fight a few more enemies, and get to a glowing treasure for... 2 claws. You just got 6 of those from the fights to get here. Woo. I still like it and I'm still happily playing it, but they definitely tried to split the DMC/FF difference and wound up with an experience that felt off on both fronts.
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Jun 24, 2023 11:05
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Dpulex posted:Other reviewers have this same problem. You all are getting really defensive about people not liking a video game did those other reviewers also hallucinate a “Clive needs to be convinced that slavery is wrong” arc that didn’t actually exist or was the polygon review special about that
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Jun 24, 2023 11:10
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Augus posted:did those other reviewers also hallucinate a “Clive needs to be convinced that slavery is wrong” arc that didn’t actually exist or was the polygon review special about that Some of the things seem to be a bit hitting over the head, but I guess it's for the player's sake, not Clive. That church on the way back to the Rosaria stands out a bit. It shouldn't be a shocking revelation to someone that lives in this world and spent the last 13 years fighting alongside bearers that they get turned to stone when they use too much of their power. Clive should have seen this happen many times already.
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Jun 24, 2023 11:24
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ymgve posted:Some of the things seem to be a bit hitting over the head, but I guess it's for the player's sake, not Clive. That church on the way back to the Rosaria stands out a bit. It shouldn't be a shocking revelation to someone that lives in this world and spent the last 13 years fighting alongside bearers that they get turned to stone when they use too much of their power. Clive should have seen this happen many times already. It wasn't a revelation to Clive though? As soon as he sees it, he says "The Crystals' Curse..." The revelation to him isn't that it's a thing, it's that under the new regime Bearers are being forced to continuously use their magic until it manifests.
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Jun 24, 2023 11:26
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ymgve posted:Some of the things seem to be a bit hitting over the head, but I guess it's for the player's sake, not Clive. That church on the way back to the Rosaria stands out a bit. It shouldn't be a shocking revelation to someone that lives in this world and spent the last 13 years fighting alongside bearers that they get turned to stone when they use too much of their power. Clive should have seen this happen many times already. I doubt many of the bearers Clive knew lived long enough to start having side effects. They were used as Frontline fodder in the constant wars after all.
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Jun 24, 2023 11:26
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Maybe I’m just not using it right but Ramuh’s kit seems pretty bad. The Eikonic ability in particular is soooo slow to set up that it doesn’t seem worth it
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Jun 24, 2023 11:30
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I love this combat personally. It has button=awesome feel and all your slick poo poo looks great. I have a cool rotation for staggers and I'm using the counter and half stagger systems I have. It feels like a big budget AAA game's action with the requisite depth, but using a spell or slowdown or other effect reads strongly FF and even feels like it's your turn when you use an ability because it's your turn even though you take damage.
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Jun 24, 2023 11:35
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RatHat posted:Maybe I’m just not using it right but Ramuh’s kit seems pretty bad. The Eikonic ability in particular is soooo slow to set up that it doesn’t seem worth it It's slow on single targets but on massed groups it locks in super fast, that's how I like to use it.
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Jun 24, 2023 11:37
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AncientSpark posted:Re: Build variety, the development team was actually actually waffling about whether they needed to add jobs into the game or not before the new combat director came on board. The combat director vehemently said no because there was enough variety with the eikon system. I think if I could change one thing about the game it would be this. Lean more into the eikon system and have them function essentially as different jobs with different weapons (i.e. Phoenix uses the regular sword that Clive uses but when you switch to Garuda suddenly you're using two daggers and wrecking people with aerials, and then you switch to Titan and you're just punching everything with your fists and wracking up massive combos). Maybe expand the eikon tree to include different benefits while attacking.
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Jun 24, 2023 11:42
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