(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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HonorableTB posted:"You come at the king, you best not miss" is the lesson Prigozhin failed to internalize here. If he had just pulled the trigger all the way, he had a really good chance of succeeding. Even the US intelligence and government apparatchiks were expecting Prigozhin to roll into Moscow and do it because they considered him to have more than enough necessary support in the Russian military and state institutions to do it. If all of his loyalists get purged, and he's dead, that's not really a pay raise per say Plus I'm assuming the poo poo they shot out of the sky wasn't cheap and wasn't easily replaced
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 00:43 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 02:46 |
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Upon reflection, I'm adjusting my position to "Putin's image was weakened by the coup attempt, but might be getting strengthened again" if he's actually outmaneuvered the hot dog guy in charge of Wagner.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 00:48 |
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Samovar posted:I can sympathise a bit with Godfrey's position. The U.S. has done a huge amount of terrible poo poo, and still does. sorry for responding to a 12 hour old derail I haven't gotten to the end of, but lmfao it's the "as a leftist, many of us are saying usa bad, russia also bad tho, i'm really upset, but like have you heard of america" specific bit that loving triggers me like fascinating, but I've heard that take fifteen million times on the internet and in irl meetings. you know, in the usa. everyone agrees США bad. i've seen my mother in law dweebed down by hot take nerds who thought a woman who spent most of her life in the soviet onion as an oppressed and genocided minority needed explained how it was actually the last and best hope for humanity and does she not see how life in america, the one country that has ever mattered, is poo poo as a leftist, peaches in paradise gently caress everyone has heard, everyone knows, read some more goddam theory yourself, the cia is not going to come for you i promise
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 00:48 |
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HonorableTB posted:"You come at the king, you best not miss" is the lesson Prigozhin failed to internalize here. If he had just pulled the trigger all the way, he had a really good chance of succeeding. Even the US intelligence and government apparatchiks were expecting Prigozhin to roll into Moscow and do it because they considered him to have more than enough necessary support in the Russian military and state institutions to do it. I think everyone is completely underestimating the persuasive abilities of master negotiator Aleksandr Lukashenko here.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 00:48 |
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HonorableTB posted:Russian soldiers are executing other Russian soldiers who expressed support for Prigozhin's coup. They're cleaning house, and filming it to broadcast across Z telegram channels. Incorporating Wagnerites into the regular army sounds like its going to be tough.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 00:50 |
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If you are in Wagner why the gently caress would you go to Ukraine(again) instead of taking a one-way ticket to any of Pirogi's mineral mines in Africa and enjoy bullying people that cannot fight back+more guaranteed pay? Because someone is holding a gun to your head and/or knows where you live for incarceration
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 00:51 |
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Say what you will, but I think this forum comes off worse for hosting a group of people thinking the imperialist invasion of Ukraine by Russia is justified.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 00:56 |
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Mokotow posted:Say what you will, but I think this forum comes off worse for hosting a group of people thinking the imperialist invasion of Ukraine by Russia is justified. every forum needs its pets
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 00:57 |
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HonorableTB posted:"You come at the king, you best not miss" is the lesson Prigozhin failed to internalize here. If he had just pulled the trigger all the way, he had a really good chance of succeeding. Even the US intelligence and government apparatchiks were expecting Prigozhin to roll into Moscow and do it because they considered him to have more than enough necessary support in the Russian military and state institutions to do it. Where on earth are you getting all this precise information?
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:00 |
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EasilyConfused posted:Where on earth are you getting all this precise information? Front page of CNN HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jun 26, 2023 |
# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:02 |
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and now that he has the attention of the whole world, he's got some incredible news about raid shadow legends to announce
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:03 |
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Mokotow posted:Say what you will, but I think this forum comes off worse for hosting a group of people thinking the imperialist invasion of Ukraine by Russia is justified. No you see both sides are bad but we are only going to talk about one side being bad openly
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:03 |
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I think Prigozhin was trying to pump and dump wagnercoin until it all got stolen cause he can't code for poo poo and he was like gently caress it
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:03 |
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Also, the US apparently knew in advance for some time that Prigozhin was going to make a move, and kept quiet about it. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/24/world/europe/us-intel-prigozhin-warning.html quote:U.S. Suspected Prigozhin Was Preparing to Take Military Action Against Russia
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:09 |
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HonorableTB posted:"You come at the king, you best not miss" is the lesson Prigozhin failed to internalize here. If he had just pulled the trigger all the way, he had a really good chance of succeeding. Even the US intelligence and government apparatchiks were expecting Prigozhin to roll into Moscow and do it because they considered him to have more than enough necessary support in the Russian military and state institutions to do it. My guess is that he never actually wanted to overthrow Putin, he probably just wanted to push in a little bit until there was an actual standoff with the military and then push for his demands during a tense negotiation or have Putin panic and give into his demands. When Putin didn't give in and he actually had a clear shot to Moscow, he suddenly became the dog who caught the car. He didn't actually want to become Czar/President, he just wanted to make quick power play and realign himself vs his rivals in the MOD. He didn't actually have plans for taking and securing Moscow or taking over civilian government, so he freaked out when that looked like the outcome of continuing his march. That's also why he basically took the first out he got, even though he didn't meet any resistance. He wasn't trying to start a civil war which would have happened if he had driven to Moscow, he just wanted to keep the status quo of his personal mercenary company.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:10 |
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HonorableTB posted:Front page of CNN Unless those linked articles say more, that's very different than: HonorableTB posted:"You come at the king, you best not miss" is the lesson Prigozhin failed to internalize here. If he had just pulled the trigger all the way, he had a really good chance of succeeding. Even the US intelligence and government apparatchiks were expecting Prigozhin to roll into Moscow and do it because they considered him to have more than enough necessary support in the Russian military and state institutions to do it.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:10 |
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there's videos from as far back as late april showing prigozhin discussing the possibility of rolling up to moscow with war correspondentsEasilyConfused posted:Unless those linked articles say more, that's very different than: i believe that post is referencing a wapo article on this as well
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:11 |
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EasilyConfused posted:Unless those linked articles say more, that's very different than: It's entirely possible I just came to the wrong conclusion from reading that, it has happened before. I'll retract that statement until something more concrete comes out In other news the Daily Mail has a good LOL: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12231599/Ex-CIA-analyst-claims-Putin-orchestrated-Wagner-coup-Prigozhin-classic-false-flag.html The Wagner coup was a false flag and this makes Putin stronger than ever!! quote:An ex-CIA analyst has claimed Vladimir Putin 'orchestrated' the coup with Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhi in a 'classic false flag' to try to make the West believe his army had weakened.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:17 |
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The Glumslinger posted:My guess is that he never actually wanted to overthrow Putin, he probably just wanted to push in a little bit until there was an actual standoff with the military and then push for his demands during a tense negotiation or have Putin panic and give into his demands. Yeah this seems like a good story, I've been thinking the same. Plus he does seem to be a Russian nationalist patriot, so the idea of rolling his tanks into Moscow and causing serious disruption might have not appealed to him. Like, he didn't want to collapse the state. And the level of support he got was more like "ok". Not hostility, not soldiers flocking to his cause. That might have freaked him out a bit.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:30 |
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HonorableTB posted:It's entirely possible I just came to the wrong conclusion from reading that, it has happened before. I'll retract that statement until something more concrete comes out I'm still on the, "Russian side kind of tactically and strategically hosed, and trying to make as much of a WWF-grade wrestling show out of it as possible to stall in the headlines" side of things.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 01:32 |
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mobby_6kl posted:Look, if you consider a spherical communism in a vacuum... imagine four commie balls at the edge of a cliff
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:05 |
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I think the story is a lot more tawdry really. Prigozhin caught wind that he was going to be arrested and lose his business, blamed it on his arch-enemy Shoigu, and instead of doing a runner did a mutiny to gently caress Shoigu back and avoid prosecution and keep Wager. THOSE FUCKERS OWE ME! He might have gone further but the RU didn't switch sides like he hoped so he settled for his bottom line. Which was to not go to jail. He believed he had enough support in the right places, but I think he miscalculated because the only real support that mattered, the RU, didn't materialize. He's a dead man as soon as Wagner is fully dispersed and no longer a local bloc.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:07 |
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I think he was going to continue and Putin threatened to carpet bomb or tac nuke the convoy before it made it to Moscow, and offered him a big chunk of cash if he called it off and retired and left the country instead
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:13 |
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I feel like he's destined to be thrown out of a window at some point in the future. If only to be made of as an example. He's no longer useful to Putin, and assasinating him would strengthen Putins position as someone not to be crossed.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:15 |
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The full circle outcome would be for Shoigu to be gossiped about for taking Prigozhin out, when the deed is done. Shoigu is really valuable at his position because he's so loyal. But to get back to that position, and never be hosed with again, it's got to be him that does it. Or to be thought to have done it.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:22 |
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So Chef Boyar P wimped out. Good luck with whatever you get thrown out of/into. This whole war has been a huge mess of incorrect prophesying, whether it was Ukarain folding in a few days, to Wagner going all the way and eating lunch at Putin's large desk. Just a whole buncha curve balls.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:22 |
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Detective Thompson posted:Chef Boyar P
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:24 |
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i'm of the mind that either prigozhin or putin will have to be dead by year's end, I don't see it happening any other way. Putin's entire regime is based solely upon him being big poppa pump and if your lunch dude drives a brigade to within 2 hours of Moscow I mean, you kinda have to kill him right? RIght?? What happens if you don't??
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:28 |
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yeah I normally roll my eyes a bit at the derogatory nicknames but this one's a winner I think
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:30 |
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https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1673064341459939329 Terrorist Strelkov wants monke out of power over the mess that happened. Guess he really doesn't give a poo poo any more about directly criticizing the big, well, now not so big, man.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:42 |
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the popes toes posted:The photos that have just been released of a search of his office are mildly damning so it's clear they're going to screw him source?
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:44 |
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Rather hair raising, at least to me. Russian AFV crew with a very big set rescuing some of their guys from the left bank Ukrainian incursion. A star wars effect with those tracers, like pulsar rounds. And the way that gunner is spraying, the Ukrainians are dispersed all over the place. Or he's just spraying. They look like they made it out countered with only mortar rounds. Nothing gruesome, no casualties. Just scary action from a bird's eye view. https://twitter.com/LeoonfrankFrank/status/1673092405791461381
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:45 |
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Herstory Begins Now posted:there's videos from as far back as late april showing prigozhin discussing the possibility of rolling up to moscow with war correspondents He was going to make putin read their substacks until he killed himself
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:48 |
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paul_soccer12 posted:source? those were from the search of wagner offices in st petersburg and one of them is a photoshop of already badly manipulated documents
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:50 |
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zone posted:https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1673064341459939329 *whistle, long and slow* Well, that's certainly heresy.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 02:55 |
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Detective Thompson posted:Chef Boyar P Holy poo poo.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:03 |
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Kyiv post says that Russia has completed preparations for the ZNPP destruction. Staying for information. Not because I know this to be true. But it's been talked about for months now so I'm unsure.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:22 |
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I think there should be some sort of 'provisional' government that forms to help Putin transition.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:23 |
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Detective Thompson posted:Chef Boyar P
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:28 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 02:46 |
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I think there should be some sort of 'provisional' government that forms to help Putin transition. A fleet of black helicopters with our top men are standing by. Top men.
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# ? Jun 26, 2023 03:30 |